frankd
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Posts posted by frankd
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I agree with Flyin Fool, now that you know exactly what the problem is, you can concentrate on finding it. What I probably would do next would be to:
1) Unplug the voltage regulator output leads (red, black and brown wires).
2) Connect a jumper from the bike side of the RR plug black lead(s) to 1 pin of a spare car headlight. Then from the other pin on the car headlight connect the positive lead of your battery charger. Connect the negative lead to the bike chassis ground. Turn on the battery charger and the headlight should light. What you have done here is to cause a couple of amps of current to flow through the black wires to where they are connected to the chassis.
3) Then I'd take my DC clamp-on ammeter and follow the path of the current to where the black leads are terminated. I suspect you'll find the connections behind the headlight. You may find a connection that has been hot and is discolored. An infra-red thermometer combined with step 2 above may also help find the dirty/loose connection. Is there a chance you could borrow a clamp on DC ammeter from some where? You also could take your digital meter and measure the voltage where the jumper is connected to the RR black wires...you should read a small DC voltage (connect the meter common to bike chassis). Then you could check all the black leads behind the headlight and see what you read.
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If you hear the water bubbling in the expansion tank, that means that the water in your cooling system is boiling. Cars, trucks, and water cooled motorcycles prevent this by allowing the pressure in the cooling system to rise to 15psi before the radiator cap vents. At 15psi and with a 50% water/anti-freeze mix in the system, coolant won't boil until it reaches 265 degrees F. This indicates that your system isn't holding pressure. When this happened on my 83, I found that the radiator cap rubber seal had gotten hard and no longer sealed correctly to the radiator. I replaced it and everything is fine now. I bought the cap I used at O'Reily's Auto Parts, but you have to grind one of the ears off of the car cap to allow it to turn on the Venture. I think the replacement was a Stant 1127, but I also think I've read that 2nd Gen caps will also work.
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To verify that a bad connection at the ground wires is your only problem, I would take a 16-18 gauge (or heavier) jumper and connect it between the battery negative and the RR regulator black leads. Then start the bike and see if it's a bit better. It may not cure the problem completely because of the voltage drop across the jumper, but it should help.
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Since you have a 2nd regulator on, I agree with the bad connection somewhere. We need to solve the problem with the fluctuating battery voltage before we worry about an ignition problem---just watch your voltmeter move all around. The voltmeter shouldn't move at all when you are driving along, and it should be just about at the line that indicates 14V.
With the bike at about 2000 RPM (exact speed not important) measure the battery voltage. Then leave the black lead on the battery negative and move the red meter lead to the red regulator wire. On a good charging system you should read 14.5V plus or minus .5V at both locations. Then measure between the battery negative terminal to engine ground. Should read nearly zero. If you can take these readings while your voltmeter is reading low (with the engine @ 2000 RPM), that will tell us more.
It may help you to have a 2nd person hold the throttle and watch the voltmeter so they can tell you when the voltmeter is reading low.
Frank D.
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When one of the coils on my V-10, 2001 E-350 went bad, I had an intermittent misfire. I went to the auto parts store, and their OBD II monitor told me that it was cylinder #9 misfiring. I just changed that coil, and that was 10 years ago.
I don't think you mentioned what year your 4.6 is, but the early years of the COP had real bad coils, but they made the later ones better so they don't go bad nearly as often.
I used a Motorcraft COP to replace my bad one.
In case you were concerned how long these engines last. Below is a picture of the odometer on my brother's 99 E-350 w/5.4 engine. The motor and the transmission are original----only oil changes and plugs.
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When one of the coils on my V-10, 2001 E-350 went bad, I had an intermittent misfire. I went to the auto parts store, and their OBD II monitor told me that it was cylinder #9 misfiring. I just changed that coil, and that was 10 years ago.
I don't think you mentioned what year your 4.6 is, but the early years of the COP had real bad coils, but they made the later ones better so they don't go bad nearly as often.
I used a Motorcraft COP to replace my bad one.
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Your 2A charger should get the battery up to 15V or above, if the battery is completely charged. A lower voltage would indicate the battery is getting old. But after watching most of the video the battery doesn't appear to be your problem.
Do you know anybody around you that has a 1st. Gen? It'd be great for you to try a different voltage regulator and to swap yours to another bike would be a positive test. Tomorrow I'll look and see if I have a spare with the plugs still on it. I've had you check the condition of the stator to regulator plug a couple of times. Have you inspected the other connector for burnt connections? Watching the voltage you either have an intermittent connection OR a bad regulator.
Frank
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You know your stator is good, so with the low charging voltages you just reported I'd check the following----
1) Is your battery good and fully charged? A bad or dead battery could cause the voltage to be low. To see if this is the problem, hook a small (about 2A) battery charger up to the battery and measure the voltage. If it comes up to 14-15 volts, the battery is NOT causing the low voltage. If the charger can't bring the voltage up, your battery is dead or bad.
2) Look at the connections on the plug that connects the stator to the rectifier/regulator and make sure none are discolored from heat.
3) I know you checked the rectifiers, but it sure looks like that's all that's left that'd contribute to such a low charging voltage. You could by a used first gen OEM regulator on Ebay relatively cheap, and not too much goes wrong with them. I have seen 1 bad oem regulator, and it had an open diode. When I bought my 89, the previous owner had just replaced the original regulator with an aftermarket version, but I never saw the OEM unit to verify that it was bad. (I've replaced the aftermarket unit with an oem unit),
The Yamaha spec. for charging voltage is 14.5 volts plus or minus .5 volts at about 3000 rpm. My 89 measures about 14.55 volts @ 3000 RPM and at a hot idle (just a sliver over 1000 RPM) with the OEM radio ON and also the LED driving lights ON (1.8 amp. total draw), it hardly moves down. Yours is way low and your battery either is drawing the voltage down, or hardly charging. With such low voltage, your ignition is much weaker than normal, which COULD cause it miss under load. I'm not saying this is your total problem, but it makes sense to me to fix this first and see what problems disappear.
Something just occurred to me===have you measured your stator to ground with a good ohmeter? I would use an analog VOM, like a Simpson 260, set to the highest ohmeter range, but a good digital meter would be OK. You should read infinity to engine ground. The light bulbs we used to indicate stator output would not indicate a grounded stator, it only indicates a shorted or open stator.
Frank D.
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The tank holds 5.3 gal. (U.S.) total. I'm sure all the gas gauges are a little different, but both my 83 and my 89 use about 4.0 gallons of gas when the red reserve indicator comes on, leaving 1.3 gallons in the tank. On my 89, the first bar goes off at about 53 miles, the 2nd bar about 70 miles, the third about 90 miles, the 4th about 108, the 5th about 135, and reserve comes on just before 170 miles average. I usually get about 42 MPG.
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I've seen several riders write here that they are stranded with dead batteries, and I thought I'd tell how to get them started and how to get them home.
If the battery will still light the headlight, you can bump start a Venture, although on level ground it's rougher. If somebody is with you, it's a lot easier, and a small hill helps. My wife and I were up in Canada on the 83', and I shut the bike off to take a couple of pictures. When I went to start it, it only cranked very slow---too slow to start. And of course, we were at the bottom of a small dip and the bags were heavily loaded. We pushed the bike backwards up the hill some, I got on it and turned the key on and made sure the kill switch was ON. She got behind the bike and pushed while I also pumped my legs back to get the bike going as quick as possible. Just before the bottom of the hill, I pulled in the clutch and clicked the bike into 2nd gear, released the clutch for a second, and pullled it back in. The bike started. The voltmeter also slowly came up to it's normal position, so I knew the charging system was OK---the 5 year old battery had retired. Now when we got back to the border, the guard had a hard time understanding why I didn't want to shut the bike off to talk to him!!! We rode the bike all the way home (2 days) with the weak battery, and we only had to bump it again once.
If the stator or the regulator goes bad, you can usually still ride it all the way home. If a stator or regulator failure only affects 1 leg, the charging system will produce enough current to run the bike and charge the battery very slightly IF the engine is @ cruising speed AND you turn off everything you can. This means that when you are at a stop light, don't keep your brake lights on. Also turn off the CB, the intercom and radio and any extra lighting you've added. Turn off the driving lights and cruise control. Keep the motor revved up more than usual. Don't lug the engine because at slow speeds the battery will discharge. Try to keep out of stop and go traffic because if the fan comes on your battery will be discharged considerably. If you're on the highway and have a voltmeter, you will see the voltage slowly raising, but it will be slow. If you are above 12.6 volts, you are not discharging the battery. We have ridden for 3 days like this, and I had run the battery down pretty far before I noticed that the voltmeter was lower than usual.
If you have a 1st. Gen, there is something else you can do, but you have to be very careful. On 1st. Gens, when you push the starter button in, the headlight goes out. If you are in gear, the engine won't crank unless you pull the clutch in. This reduces the load, and the battery voltage will come up, charging the battery faster. To guarantee the clutch switch will keep the starter from spinning, I hold the clutch lever all the way OUT when I do this. A few minutes of this on the interstate will help the battery quite a bit. I don't think 2nd Gens. turn the headlight off with the starter button. If it's daylight, you could disconnect the headlight, and that will decrease the load. You can pull the headlight fuse or just pull the plug off the back of the headlight (fuse box is underneath the tank cover on 1st. Gens. and under the left side cover on 2nd Gens.) but remember cars will also see you a lot less and the police may get upset. If you have LED driving lights that draw much less than your headlight, you could turn them on and disconnect your headlight. Then you'd have reduced load and still be somewhat legal.
If you are stuck somewhere with a nearly dead battery and a bad charging system, maybe you could ask several people to help you push start it. If the engine is cold, remember to use the choke!!! Then by reducing the load on the system, you should be able to get some charge back into the battery.
Frank D.
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Other Venturers have told you this, but you really need to check the fuel pump. To verify that it is the pump, I would take 2 new hoses and put them on the fuel pump. Then put them into a can of gas (DO THIS OUSIDE CLEAR OF EVERYTHING) turn on the key and rock the kill switch every 5 seconds to reset the fuel pump timer. Your pump should prime and pump gas. If it doesn't, replace the fuel pump. If it does, check the fuel pump screen and make sure it isn't clogged.
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I also had a NAPA 4007 filter on my 89, and I had the filter element come loose from the filter body. This allowed all the garbage in the bottom of the filter body to work it's way into my carbs. and some of it collected on the needle and seats and this caused the bike to flood. After you solve your fuel pump problem, I suggest you replace the filter with a different P/N. Some other suggested filters are:
Wix 3304
NAPA 3011
Purolator F 100 24
AutoZone FF3330 (luber-finer G478) (has a metal body)
NAPA Gold 3007 (has a metal body)
Frank D.
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Are you certain that it's a head gasket? It's much more likely that it's a loose or damaged hose, or a radiator leak.
Frank D.
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Your stator appears to be good. BTW, was the bike warmed up when you took the picture??
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Yes!!! You need 3 sockets and bulbs, and wire it just like you show. If the stator is good, all 3 lamps will be relatively equal. If it's bad, one or two go dim, indicating lower stator output.
My 83 was driving me crazy looking for something intermittent in the charging circuit. I went over all of the normal stuff and everything was fine. I hooked up the lights (regulator disconnected) and they were fine for a couple of minutes, and then one of the lamps got dim and then normal and then dim again. You'll have to bring the engine speed up a bit---they'll be dim at idle, and at about 4000 RPM they get pretty bright. I see by your picture that you still have the stator to regulator connector on you bike. INSPECT THE LEADS NEAR THE PLUGS AND VERIFY THEY AREN"T SHOWING SIGNS OF HEAD DAMAGE. A lot of 1st Gen stator connectors have been removed and the stator leads connected directly to the regulator leads (twisted and soldered or with my favorite way by using high quality ring terminals (AKA Stakons), soldering the leads in the terminal after crimping them, and using brass screws and nuts to connect them. THen I tape up the connections carefully. Any stator lead can go to any white regulator lead.
Frank
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Well, if you found all 6 diodes measured good (.45 in the forward direction, and open in the reverse direction) and your stator is good, your bike should charge. You measured 12.7V with the bike running.....the battery must be good and fully charged in order to read the charging voltage correctly. Get a known good battery installed and then proceed with the troubleshooting.
You measured the stator to ground and it appears fine. You also measured the stator output voltage and all three phases were about equal. You could do the ultimate stator test. Take three 75 Watt 120 volt incandescent lamps. Using 3 sockets with leads (the way they used to light up used car lots in the 50's), connect all 3 to the stator leads (one across each pair of stator wires). When you rev. the bike up, all 3 should be equally bright, and pretty bright. I have seen stators that weren't grounded, but had intermittent shorted turns and this test found the problem. The tests you've already made to the stator will find about 98% of the bad stators in Ventures.
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Do NOT ground it---just tape it up. Some regulators have the brown voltage sensing lead, others just use the red wire for voltage feedback.
Frank D.
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It's not that difficult to replace the regulator. Put the bike on the center stand, and remove the left passenger foot peg assembly. Then remove the 2 screws under the foot peg assembly (I seem to remember they use phillips head screws, one longer than the other. The regulator slides to the rear and out. I don't think you'll need to remove the left muffler, but I could be wrong.
Seeing that your charging voltage is low, you can test that portion of the regulator with it in place. Turn your meter to the 'diode test' position which is usually indicated by a diode symbol. Measure from each stator lead on the regulator to one of the red leads, then reverse the leads and measure again. You should see a diode connected to each white lead. The diode should conduct in one direction and be open in the other. Usually diodes measure about .6-.8 in the forward direction. If you see all 3 diodes, move the lead from the red lead to one of the black leads and repeat the test to each white lead. You should see 3 more diodes. If all six diodes are present, your regulator is NOT the cause of your low charging voltage. On my 83, I did have one of these diodes open and had to replace the regulator. There are usually regulators available on Ebay for a good price.
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Hold the phone Razorback....It looks like you've got one of your meter leads in the wrong jack!!!! The black lead it supposed to be plugged into the COM (common) jack. I can't read how the right jack is labeled, but it appears to be the Voltage lead. Is the left jack labeled 10A? If it is, the left jack is used to measure current only. Put the black lead in the COM jack, and the red in the voltage and resistance jack, and measure EVERYTHING again. A lead-acid battery can not logically measure 14.2V when it's not being charged. 12.6-12-8 is the normal range, although AGM batteries measure a tiny bit higher. Measure the battery in your car/truck and tell us what it measures. Maybe your meter doesn't read voltage accurately?
When you check for a grounded stator, connect the black lead to engine ground and touch the red lead to ANY white stator lead.
Frank D.
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When I purchased my 89 about 5 years ago, it appeared to be a touch rich, but only slightly. Then I checked and replaced the diaphrams and my gas mileage went down, and it got richer because the needles were being pulled farther out of the main jet. We went out west, and above 5000 ft. you could tell by the way it sounded that it was way too rich....everywhere. I pulled the carbs. and adjusted the float levels. This helped, but the cruise circuit still seemed rich and the gas mileage was about 38 MPG. I added a couple of washers to move the main jet needles in slightly, and now it seems great. It has just a light bog when it's cold out, the mileage is about 42MPG and it was great at high altitude last year.
Frank D.
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I put a Cobra on the rear of my 1st. Gen last October when I couldn't get a Venom. I think a Cobra is just an improved Venom. The sidewalls look a little different, but the tread looks just about the same and somewhere it said that the belts had been re-designed to improve how long it lasts. 42PSI is the max. air pressure allowed though. I've got about 5,000 miles on it (including the 2 up loaded trip to Albuquerque last fall) and so far it's been great. It did feel slightly different for the first 10 miles, but after that I must have gotten used to it.
Frank D.
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I use an ohmmeter to verify that the boots are OK and not corroded so bad that they are no longer properly connected to the wires. Connect 1 lead of the ohmmeter to ground and touch the other inside of the plug boot, where it connects to the spark plug. From memory I think they should measure about 12K ohm. All 4 should measure approximately the same. It's not important if they measure 13K or 8K, the important thing is that you don't have any that are way higher.
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What you could do that may help give you an ideal on where the problem is would be to disconnect the intercoms from the main chassis, one at a time. The intercom plugs are the 2 back DIN connectors that are on the 'back' end of the chassis.
Frank
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Hoosier,
The noise in my 89 sounded just like ignition noise---it increased pitch as the motor sped up, but what I found was that it really was caused by the regulator. To regulate the output voltage, the regulator shorts out the stator to keep the voltage from going too high. It does this by firing thyristors connected across the stator leads. Because the alternator has a permanent magnet spinning inside of the stator, it always produces 100% of it's capacity---it only increases output as engine RPMs increase. Until I noticed that the level of the noise decreased when the load on the alternator increased, I thought I had ignition noise also.
Do you have the noise at a hot idle (1000 RPM)? If not, increase the RPM until it just barely starts. Then without changing RPM, step on the brake pedal. Did the noise stop? If so, you probably have regulator noise, not ignition noise.
Saddlebum,
Mine used to get worse and better when I hit bumps also, and the noise was LOUD when it was in a bad mood. Also, every time I pulled the main radio chassis out and re-installed it, the noise would be gone.....for a little while. Over time, I've taken the radio chassis apart and tightened every screw that grounds the boards inside. Some were pretty loose. I cleaned up the chassis mounting bolts and the ground connections that were under the bolts and then coated them with grease so they wouldn't oxidize. I added another ground wire between the back mounting bolt and the bolt underneath the left side front of the seat. I added a wire from the back of the radio chassis up to the back mounting bolt. I also beefed up the filter board (the board to the front of the radio), but that didn't help at all. After this didn't help, I connected the radio to a regulated external power supply so that the bike no longer powered the radio, but the noise was unchanged---it's not getting in through the power source. I did find that the intercom connector that is under the rear of the seat (you have to pull the seat to get to it) had pulled apart slightly and when I pushed it in fully, the noise decreased significantly. Then I noticed something else......as I varied the intercom volume from minimum to maximum, the noise would be present at minimum, and decrease as I increased the intercom volume. At about 11:00 the noise would be completely gone. As I went above that, the noise got louder and louder. The noise would null out when the volume was at 11:00. That position of the null does change sometimes though. I hit a bump and the noise comes back at a low level. I turn the intercom volume slightly and it goes completely away. Then I'll notice that a low level noise returns, and then I can turn it back to 11:00 and it's quiet again. Fortunately this is a good level for my intercom.
Now the obvious question.....Why do 89's have this problem? What's different about them? I did try an earlier radio chassis and it had no ignition noise, but the high frequency output of the intercom was much lower and I didn't like the way music sounded over the headphones. I've got my original back in. I only had the older unit in for a couple of days, so I can't say that I hit the right bump.
Frank
carb synk problem
in Venture and Venture Royale Tech Talk ('83 - '93)
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Then adjust the low cylinders (by turning the screws for them ccw) until they go up and match the higher ones. Then raise the idle speed back up and do it again.