Donvito
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Posts posted by Donvito
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There are two things that may cause the loss at the ignition fuse, the ignition switch, and the main 40 amp fuse. Not sure about the MK2, but the MK1 is a metal link affair that is mounted with screws. You need to have some kind of a load on the circuit to develop a voltage drop to be detected. From the battery you will see two lines, one going to the starter solenoid, and the other going to a plastic box with a clear cover on it. This is the main fuse. With a load, such as your fuel pump setup on read the voltage on the wires if possible on both sides. There is a good possibility that the fuse link has corrosion or the screws are loose, dirty, or corroded.
If you are only seeing a tenth of a volt or two across the main fuse then you issue is most likely the contacts on your ignition switch...
Thanks. Just took some readings to test all the fuses and this is what I found. Battery is 12.13, All fuses are between 11.1 and 11.2. The pump relay was at 9.8 while I tested.
So, then what you said seems likely being the drop is consistent across all the circuits. How does the ignition switch operate and should I clean it somehow? I will check the main fuse now.
Also, I just ordered a new fuse box from skydoc to upgrade the fuses.
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Thanks to all for the advice. I am going to start at the beginning and try to find the reason for the voltage drop at the fuse box. I still have the original one.
I will also test across the kill switch but I am going to remove the switch and do the maintenance on the switches and cables. Have never done it to the right side so not looking forward to it but the step by step instructions are helpful and I can lubricate the cables while I'm in there. Thanks.
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OK first thing to try. When you jumper the R/W to the L/B wire and the volts drops to 10 volts, measure the voltage on EACH side of the Ignition fuse to ground and get back to me...
11.3 left and 11.28 right, at battery terminals voltage is 12.3.
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I've been troubleshooting an intermittent fuel supply problem to the carbs. Currently, the pump is set to pump into a gas can so all testing has been done without the engine running. So far, I have determined the problem is not the fuel supply, the pump, the relay or the fuel pump power wire, L/B, going from the relay to the pump.
When I power the pump through the relay connection, with the relay removed, directly from the battery, it will pump until I remove the power. However, when I apply a jumper from the R/W wire at the relay connection to the pump wire, L/B, it will pump briefly and then stop and the voltage drops to below 10.
So, what could cause a 2 volt power drop? I believe it could be the kill switch and I think there is a way to test resistance across it but I'm not sure how or where to do it. Anything else?
Any advice is appreciated.
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Can you disconnect fuel line to carbs at fuel pump?
Then put 12v + & - to fuel pump leads, after disconnecting from harness.
Reason being is it would be interesting to see if fuel pump is funcioning as it should with power direct to it.
Only way closing petcock could have any effect on voltage is that the plunger inside the fuel pump is not able to retract after it is cycled foward, this possibly could prevent the contacts from opening as they should on the return stroke of the plunger. There may be an issue in the pump solenoid windings that is drawing down voltage.
Other than that, petcock & electrical systems are totally unrelated. Also the flapper valves may be malfuntioning in pump.
Gary
Thanks for the suggestion. I know the pump operates when it's getting 12 volts to it. So, after I drain the tank and check the petcock I'll confirm the pump operation. Since you understand the pump operation, what does it do when the fuel flow is not sufficient due to an obstruction in the supply system?
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Yesterday, I was tying to cause the problem so I ran the bike with the fuel petcock closed until it stalled. I wanted to empty the carbs so the pump would operate. After doing this, I forgot to reopen the petcock and had 10 volts at the relay which caused the relay to click and vibrate, which is the same thing it was doing when the bike wouldn't run. When I opened the petcock, the pump operated and the voltage returned to 12.
Currently I have 12 volts at the test points. I'm pretty sure I can cause the problem again by closing the petcock and running the bike until it stalls but I don't know if I could cause damage by doing it. Even though I have disconnected the fuel line from the pump and drained fuel at what seemed to be sufficient flow, I think I should drain the tank and check the screens at the petcock in addition to continuing to check the electrical system. I had assumed a restricted fuel flow had no effect on the relay voltage but now I'm rethinking that.
What do you think and what should I check next?
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If you unplugged the connector then there will only be 12V on one of the red/white wires.
as a test, hook a jumper across the red/white wires in the connecter to see what the voltage is at the relay.
OK, I don't have small enough connectors to make a jumper so have to buy some. I did notice something that you may be able to explain. With the petcock closed, the voltage drops 2 volts at the R/W wire at the relay and at the wire going to the pump. This happens whether the engine is running or not. So, if I turn on the key with the petcock closed, the relay will click and the voltage is at about 10. Then, when I open the petcock, after a few minutes, the voltage goes back to normal and the pump operates. Any thoughts?
Have to go to work. Keeps getting in the way of working on the bike.
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Would a fuel pump relay help you?
I have I spare I will loan you. I opened it up a while back to see what was in it.
Does bike have cruise control on it? If it does, indicator lights are fed from same circuit that powers pump relay. Turn cruise on and watch to see if lights go out. Set, Resume & On all have same 12v+ feed.
Gary
Thank you for the offer. Not sure it's the relay at this point but if everything points to that, I'll take you up on your offer to confirm that's the problem before I buy one. Thanks for the info about the cruise control and, yes, I have it.
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The glass fuses in these bike are very well known to cause a lot of electrical grief. It is highly recommended to replace the glass fuse panel with an AGM fuse panel. Skydoc_17 sells a kit with good instructions on how to do this.
Although if you have 12V in the wires at the fuse panel then that is not likely your issue at this time.
The next place that the red white wire goes is to the kill switch on the right handlebar.
The wire bundle that comes down from the handlebar has a connector in the right side of the faring. If you already are in to the relay then you should also be able to get to this connector.
There are 2 red/white wires in that connector. Check to see if they both show 12V while the relay is showing 10. If one of the wires has 10V and the other 12V. then you have a dirty contact in either the connector or the switch its self. The switch can be disassembled for cleaning the contacts. Give each of the wire a gentle tug to be sure it is well crimped, Last summer I had a loose crimp in that connector that drove me nuts for over a month trying to find find my intermittent connection.
I have 12 volts at the plug but only from one of the R/W wires, the other has no voltage. I'm testing with the plug unplugged, the key on and the bike not running. Trying to trace the wires on the schematic, it looks like one goes to the sidestand switch and the other to the ignition coils, is that correct? Why wouldn't there be power to one of the wires? I also tried testing with the start button pushed and the sidestand up and down.
Also, currently I have 12 volts at the fuel pump relay and it is operating properly.
Thanks.
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If the voltage on the red/white wire is low and all other wires are still at 12 V then you have a bad connection somewhere.
This will take a while to walk you thru this, there are a lot of connections in that red/white wire.
Please do not be upset if we go down to to low of a level, we do not know your experience level.
Start at the very beginning with the fuse block. Do you still have the stock fuse panel with the glass fuses?
If you can get the bike into the condition where you are seeing low voltage on the red/white wire at the relay. Check the voltage on both sides of the Ignition fuse (15A fuse) this is the beginning of the red/white wire. Do not just touch the ends of the fuse but get to the wires themselves.
Try not to move the wires while testing them, you might just move them into a good position from the bad position they were in.
Yes, still have the glass fuses. Ignition fuse tests 12.25V at left and right side wire terminals. R/W wire at relay 10 V not running. At idle, 13.3 V at fuse, 11V at relay. Thanks.
I have to go out for a few hours so will reply next asap. Thanks.
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I was just able to test while the problem was occurring. When the relay clicks repeatedly and the pump doesn't operate, the voltage at the relay is less than 10. I tested the headlight also, and that is reading 12 volts. After the clicking stops, it also hums/vibrates briefly. I held it in my hand while this was happening so the clicking IS coming from the relay.
I tested the relay at the power supply (R/W) and at the fuel pump wire (L/B) and they are both low. So, sometimes, there is insufficient power going to the relay and, consequently, the pump. The starter will work while the problem is happening and, as I said, there is 12 volts going to the headlight.
Trying to trace the R/W wire on the schematic, it seems to supply power to the sidestand relay, flashers and some other components and is fed from the ignition fuse. I suck at schematics so if anyone can help there I'd appreciate it.
What could cause intermittent decreased voltage going to the relay?
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You are correct in your understanding of the relay operation. That being said, what Jeff said! The relay does not click, the fuel pump clicks. The contacts on the fuel pump are known to go bad, and unless your fuel filter is in good shape it can shut off fuel delivery to the carbs. Also, remove your petcock and screen and inspect them. If the screen gets clogged it will shut down the supply of gas to the fuel pump and that will make the fuel pump click rapidly the same as it does when you run out of gas...
When the problem first happened, I removed the fuel hose at the pump and drained several pints of fuel because I though it was bad gas. So, I don't think fuel supply to the pump is the problem. I have checked the filter and it's good but I'll remove and inspect the petcock and screen.
The rapid clicking is definitely coming from the area of the relay, not the pump. I'm familiar with the pump sound as I've owned the bike since 1987. Once the event is over, the pump clicks and the bike runs fine. Thanks for your advice.
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When you first turn on the key, will the engine crank with the starter button? Will it start?
Even if the fuel pump is not running, it should still start and run till the float bowls run out of fuel.
When you said that the relay was clicking rapidly when you turned on the key.
It is normal for the fuel pump to click rapidly and it does sound like a relay clicking. Are you sure it is the relay that you are hearing clicking and not the fuel pump?
IF the float bowls are already full you will not hear any clicking when you first turn on the key. The fuel pump only clicks while it is pumping, once the system is full it will not click anymore till there is someplace for it to pump fuel into.
When the problem occurs the engine will start and run until it stalls, Then, after a period of time and turning the key, I will hear the pump click and it will run fine, usually until I turn it off although it did stall one time while running. Every other time the problem has occurred at start up.
I know the difference between the pump clicking and the relay clicking and, when the problem occurs, it is definitely the relay clicking.
I understand the pump will only pump when the carb requires gas and it is continuously powered while the engine is running but will only pump as needed. When it is operating properly, I can see this on my tester. But, I have not been able to test during the problem yet.
As I have been testing it all last week, but running the engine and not riding it, I haven't had the problem. It seems to only happen after a ride. Does that mean anything?
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Thank you both for the helpful advice. My understanding, please correct if wrong, is the relay is powered by turning the ignition switch which then sends power to the fuel pump for several seconds before turning off. Once the engine starts, the ignitor determines the bike is running and sends a constant signal to the relay to power the pump which is continuously powered until the bike is turned off or the engine is stopped from another system.
As I have experienced problems at start and while the engine is running, what is common to both conditions? I understand the relay and pump are, but, is there something else? I don't think the sidestand switch effects the fuel pump nor the "fall over" sensor other than to stop the engine, which, in turn, causes the ignitor to stop the relay from powering the pump. Correct?
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I posted last week about a problem with my fuel pump system so I spent a week testing the relay output at start, while running, hot, cold, with the headlight plugged in, with the relay hanging and installed, and no problems. Put it back together and went for a ride yesterday. Today, I went to start it and the problem occurred. The relay clicks rapidly but no power to the pump. By the time I got it opened to test it was working.
Now I can't find a relay to buy even though I'm not sure if that's the problem. When the problem happens, the starter cranks and nothing else seems to be affected. I tested the ground at the relay and it was good but I'm not sure where it's grounded to. Can someone tell me? Also, if there is anything else I can test let me know. It's frustrating when I can't test it while it's happening. Thanks.
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Thanks for the reply. Fuel filter was replaced recently. Fuel supply to the pump is good so pretty sure the problem is electrical. I know the pump clicks but the rapid clicking was from the area of the relay which made me wonder if it was going bad. I've searched for new replacements but can't find it. If you have the part number that would help. I just checked it again with the meter on it and still working fine. If I can catch a "bad" start I can definitely identify the problem so I'll leave it apart and continue checking it through the week. Thanks.
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I have an 87 VR which just hit 50,000 miles.
I need some advice. On a recent 900 mile round trip to I experienced fuel supply issues, no fuel getting to the carbs. It would happen after being stopped usually but it happened one time while I was riding after about 60 miles of running fine. With the help of Steve Crossley (thanks Steve) I checked what I could on the road and determined the problem is with the fuel pump system. I was always able to get it running after some time and continue the ride.
Now that I'm home, I removed enough parts to get to the fuel pump relay. I've gone through the tests from the manual and the relay, pump and ignitor unit are all testing proper and the bike is running fine for now. I should mention that when the problem was occurring I heard a rapid clicking from behind the dashboard where the relay is located.
I also noticed that the relay is only sending power to the pump for about 2 seconds after turning the key on. I've read that it should be 5 seconds.
So, what should I do to the relay and wire connector before putting it back together? How do I tighten up the connections inside the plug? Should I clean the plugs with contact cleaner? Is the relay going bad and is there a replacement? I've searched for the relay part, Omron G86-02Y (can't find the Yamaha number and I haven't been able to find it on the parts diagrams) and I can only find a used one on ebay. Are new ones available?
It seems the 5 second cut off is what makes finding a replacement difficult. I know it's a safety feature for a stuck float or fuel leak but it seems to me that it's only prevents a problem with the key on and the bike not running in which case I can hear the pump. If the problem occurred while running, there is nothing to stop the pump as far as I know.
Thanks for any info you can provide and thanks for the prior help.
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Are you sure that the po didn't install mic mutes on it? Try hitting the TX button for the cb and talking ( with the cb off). Another thought
I am the original owner. Thanks for the suggestion but that didn't work.
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no ptt, I remember an intermittent mic issue with my 89, it was the front chord had been pinched.
Can you tell me where the cord is located? Thanks.
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Maybe it is the microphones. I don't see a way to open the casing to get to the microphones. I'll try to find someone with working headsets. Anyone in Florida with a set? Are any other bikes compatible with our system? Thanks.
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The Intercom volume knob can be turned OFF (full CCW) or to the desired sensitivity, it sounds like it's not ON, loud enough or there's a problem with that unit.
http://www.bergall.org/temp/venture/vr1.jpg
Thanks for the advice. When I adjust the volume with the radio off, I can hear a hum through the headsets which gets louder as I adjust it. BTW the CB also works through the earphones. The music will turn off when I adjust the squelch like it should.
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Doesn't the first gen have a mute button? stuck switch maybe
Thanks for the advice I wouldn't have thought of that. Unfortunately, the mute buttons are off and do work to mute the radio through the earphones. Good advice though.
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Now that all my major problems are fixed with your help, I thought I would try to get my intercom working again. I have an 87 VR with two 20 plus year old J & M headsets.
Both headsets ear phones work and music from the radio or cassette works fine. Only the intercom doesn't work. I have tried switching them to the other plug with no help. Because both sets of earphones work, I am assuming it isn't a problem with the headsets but I may be wrong. Anyone have any advice?
I have had both top fairing top covers off recently to replace the speakers which work fine also so not sure if I could have dislodged something. Thanks.
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Thanks to Freebird's excellent repair instructions and my brother's soldering skills, I am happy to report my controller is working properly. Thanks to all for your help.
Fuel Pump Power Supply
in Venture and Venture Royale Tech Talk ('83 - '93)
Posted
Mine has been pumping into a can a ground level but just to simulate resistance I elevated the can about 4.5 feet above the pump which is about 2 psi and it still pumped into it with no problem. But, thanks for the thought.