Ethanol Fuel

[Condor]

I just got thru reading an interesting article in one of my boat mags about the use of ethanol added fuel and water. California being one of those states that require ethanol laced fuel brought the article close to home. It might also apply to your state as well. Apparently Ethanol attracts water and octane is actually increased because of it. As long as the gas/ethanol/water stays mixed. The problem occurs when the H2O content rises to over 3% by volume. Then the water will seperate from the fuel/ethanol and settle to the bottom of the tank. Lots of ugly things can happen when it does. Poor running conditions to plain stalling, rusting tanks, loss of octane are a few. It you are storing your scoot over the winter months it might be prudent to keep the tank topped off...reduces air circulation...and use a dry gas product to keep things mixed. It's something I'm going to start doing......

[RedRider]

Sounds like another job for ......SEAFOAM !!!

 

RR

[Condor]

Sea Foam will make everything spic'n'span, but I don't think it will act as a catalist between water and ethanol'd fuel.

[DakotaRider]

I had a 99 Venture.....On a long hot trip I filled up with 10% ethanol by mistake. After about 100 miles the bike begin heating up and cutting out. I would let it set for about 2 min. than go again. This happened about 3 times in 25 miles or so until I reached a gas station. I filled it with 87 and headed down the road. It took about a mile and it smoothed out and ran fine after that. Just my experience with ethanol. I burn it in my 4 wheelers but not my 2.

[BOO]

We have no choice here. Ethanol at all the gas stations.

Can't say that I've ever noticed any difference in performance.

Jerry

[Wrongway]

We have no choice here. Ethanol at all the gas stations.

Can't say that I've ever noticed any difference in performance.

 

Jerry

 

 

Same here. It's supposed to give about 10% lower MPG but since it's all we have I don't know any better.

[cimmer]

That is one of the problems with ethanol in the gas. They cant mix it into the gas and then ship it via pipeline anywhere as it will absorb the moisture from the pipeline and render the gas useless. The ethanol has to be blended into the gas at the distribution point and then trucked to the gas stations. If the distribution point has rail access, then it doesn't add much to the cost of the fuel, but if they must truck it from a rail siding or ethanol plant then the cost starts to add up. For me I have noticed a decrease in gas mileage as the BTU from a gallon of gas is higher then the BTU from a gallon of bended gas. Also I believe that Congress mandated that all gas be blended with ethanol and that was one of the factors in last year run up of gas prices. Just thought I put my 2 cents worth in. Rick F

[Condor]

For me I have noticed a decrease in gas mileage as the BTU from a gallon of gas is higher then the BTU from a gallon of bended gas. Also I believe that Congress mandated that all gas be blended with ethanol and that was one of the factors in last year run up of gas prices. Just thought I put my 2 cents worth in. Rick F

 

Wow!!! If I weren't using ethanol fuel I'd be getting 60mpg instead of the 50 I'm get now.... Maybe that's why my mufflers steam and drip water so much when I first fire it up??? I have my own water injection system...remember those pre-NOX gimics....? Leave it to the government to screw up things even more than they have already. I think I'll go buy a can of dry gaz and put it in just because.....

[GeorgeS]

Lets See, how much Oil Does Not get burned if we use Ethonol ??

 

1. Oil has to be hauled and refined to build John Deer tractors etc etc.

 

2. John Deer tractors have to burn diesel to plow the fields, plant the corn, and harvest the corn. Fertilizer, and other things have to be manufactured, and hauled to the fields, to grow the corn

 

 

3. The Corn has to be hauled by trucks ( burnining diesel fuel ) to the Ethonal plant.

 

4. the Ethonol plant has to the burn fuel to turn the corn into ethonol.

 

5. the Ethonol has to be hauled by trucks and trains to the distribution points.

 

6. Your car gets 10 percent less milage burning the stuff,

 

 

So I guess my question is, Whats the point to all this ??

 

Is there More or Less Oil being burned or polution being created in total ??

 

Maby there is less polution in Calif. but how about the polution in Iowa caused by makeing the ethonol ??

 

And then you might consider that all that good Fertile farm land in Iowa could be put to better use by growing food for the supposed " starveing mass's " of the world.

[Gearhead]

"We have no choice here. Ethanol at all the gas stations.

Can't say that I've ever noticed any difference in performance.

"

 

 

 

Ditto. We have ethanol mix only half the year, because it doesn't work well in Tucson summer temps. my performance and mileage are not noticably different to me when the switch happens.

 

Jeremy

[Monsta]

Wow!!! If I weren't using ethanol fuel I'd be getting 60mpg instead of the 50 I'm get now....

Uh...no. If you got 10% better mileage from your average of 50, you'd get 55mpg. (5 = 10% of 50)

 

Ethanol's a crock. I gotta burn more fuel to get somewhere. It defeats the fuel/oil savings argument and the pollution argument. Thank the Corn Grower's Lobby for this mess.

[Condor]

Uh...no. If you got 10% better mileage from your average of 50, you'd get 55mpg. (5 = 10% of 50)

 

Ethanol's a crock. I gotta burn more fuel to get somewhere. It defeats the fuel/oil savings argument and the pollution argument. Thank the Corn Grower's Lobby for this mess.

 

OK...actually it'd be closer to 56.... but you really know how to take the wind out of my sails... I was about ready to move somewhere where they've never heard of ethanol .....

[Redneck]

Lets See, how much Oil Does Not get burned if we use Ethonol ??

 

1. Oil has to be hauled and refined to build John Deer tractors etc etc.

 

2. John Deer tractors have to burn diesel to plow the fields, plant the corn, and harvest the corn. Fertilizer, and other things have to be manufactured, and hauled to the fields, to grow the corn

 

 

3. The Corn has to be hauled by trucks ( burnining diesel fuel ) to the Ethonal plant.

 

4. the Ethonol plant has to the burn fuel to turn the corn into ethonol.

 

5. the Ethonol has to be hauled by trucks and trains to the distribution points.

 

6. Your car gets 10 percent less milage burning the stuff,

 

 

So I guess my question is, Whats the point to all this ??

 

Is there More or Less Oil being burned or polution being created in total ??

 

Maby there is less polution in Calif. but how about the polution in Iowa caused by makeing the ethonol ??

 

And then you might consider that all that good Fertile farm land in Iowa could be put to better use by growing food for the supposed " starveing mass's " of the world.

Ethanol at this point is a fairly in inefficient fuel source. A couple of years ago it was taking 1.5 gallons of petroleum to bring 1 gallon of ethanol to market. That is part of developing a new fuel source when we started using petroleum it was very inefficient. It takes time and money to build the infrastructure for a new fuel it will get more efficient and auto makers are now making multi fuel vehicles that will use straight ethanol or gas. There is no waist of fertile farm land the corn they are using is primarily used for cattle feed and after they make the ethanol the corn is still there and still used for cattle feed in a more efficient more digestible form. the bottom line is we have no choice we must develop alternative energy sources.

[hipshot]

Ethanol at this point is a fairly in inefficient fuel source. A couple of years ago it was taking 1.5 gallons of petroleum to bring 1 gallon of ethanol to market. That is part of developing a new fuel source when we started using petroleum it was very inefficient. It takes time and money to build the infrastructure for a new fuel it will get more efficient and auto makers are now making multi fuel vehicles that will use straight ethanol or gas. There is no waist of fertile farm land the corn they are using is primarily used for cattle feed and after they make the ethanol the corn is still there and still used for cattle feed in a more efficient more digestible form. the bottom line is we have no choice we must develop alternative energy sources.

THANK YOU mike!

that was the most short and to the point explanation ,i have ever heard. makes perfect sense.

i couldn't have said it better myself!

 

 

jsut jt

[tomephil]

I'm from Winnipeg Canada and actually I go out of my way to get ethanol gas. I have been using it in my cars, bikes etc. since it came out. I like the fact that it burns cleaner. The only thing I don't use it in is my old 2 stroke outboard motor.

When I put my bike away for the winter I either drain my tank and carbs dry or add a fuel stabilizer.

I have experienced no problems.

[juggler]

One thing to remember is that ALL the car builders are building cars that can run on 100% ethanol is mass production for sale in Brazil. Brazil turns sugar cane in to ethanol.

 

So we can not blame car makers for not making the cars. They do make them. So why are we not using them. The real reason has been pointed out above. It takes more energy to make ethanol out or corn than the ethanol can produce. The millage sucks and there is a net loss of power. Ethanol laws are nothing more than a subsidy for corn farmers. Add on top of that the rising cost of corn do to diminished corn for food supply. This will cause all products that use corn, corn sugar, corn starch and other corn by products to increase in price. Over time the ethanol will cost us more at the pumps, cost us more in subsidies, and cost us more in corn products. The overall effect will be to hurt our economy. This is what the Liberals want. Their belief is we are too wealthy and we must be brought down to the level of the remaining 2nd and 3rd world countries. Do we really want to go back to the 'Good 'ol Days' of no cars, no electricity and no clean water?

 

[GeorgeS]

Ok, well, thats still 2 1/2 gallons of fuel being burned, to get the equal of 9/10th of a gallon of gas.

 

Also, Those acres of the " Best Farm Land in the World" , could be used to grow human food.

 

Also, If one were to grow " Hemp" , ( which is not the stuff some folks smoke ) you would get 6 to 10 time's the Tonnage per acre of material to turn into Fuel.

 

I grew up on a Corn Farm in Minn. I know what it cost to produce the stuff.

 

And frankly we need more Steak, and pork chops and other food for the folks around the world.

A much better use for the Corn. I know this cause I used to raise Beef, and Pork. We raised, corn, soy beans, wheat, oats. sweet corn, peas, alfalfa, on that wonderful black southern Minn. soil.

 

Sorry, you will never convince me that wasting that great black Soil in Minn. Iowa and IL. should be wasted to make Ethonal.

 

One more thing, burning the 1 1/2 gallon of oil to make a gallon of Ethonal, !! Thats polution going into the atmospher Also, Don't forget that .

 

Brazil , yes, they do it with Sugar Cane, They are in a totaly different Climate. Much more tonnage per acre. You can't grow the stuff in Iowa. But, you can grow Hemp there. They did it in Minn during WW II. for the war effort. Very few folks can remember that.

 

Now I will admit, that in area's in the U.S. that have poor soil, you can produce great tonnage per acre of Suger Beets. This is probably fairly close to what Brazil is doing.

 

Maby you are right about the growing new Industry, but in the end, I think the Carbon Footprint will be about the same as Oil.

 

However, It would gain us energy independance. Your correct on that point.

[GeorgeS]

Now haveing said all, that. I'm not against useing Existing Waste

products that are allready avialable to make Ethonol, to put them go good use. !!! Where ever possible.

 

And useing that fuel for Specially designed vehicals, public transit and the like. Or In-Place power plants. etc. etc.

 

Also, the Corn Stalks are not a Waste product, They are generally plowed under to keep the soil rich.

 

Its fertilizer for next years crop!!!