'86 Royale shorted battery

[circa1968]

@Patch I'm definitely a problem child, but definitely not picking on your english. 

Was just pointing out that the scenario you created is what we all experience in married life - the killed mood, hence the fewer words version of "are you married?"  My bad attempt at a joke.  Should probably get used to it, its one of the things in life I'm really good at.

[Patch]

On 6/20/2021 at 9:31 PM, circa1968 said:

@Patch I'm definitely a problem child, but definitely not picking on your english. 

Was just pointing out that the scenario you created is what we all experience in married life - the killed mood, hence the fewer words version of "are you married?"  My bad attempt at a joke.  Should probably get used to it, its one of the things in life I'm really good at.

Nothing to eulogize for! 

I really don't mind you's picking on my english and or spelling. I often get a good laugh on my end when I reread the confusion I often come up with. You're still a junior member with us and likely have managed not to read my jabs when a somebody  is being malicious to myself or another member 

I bet you'd all dig the story about Canadian Moose and motorcyclist? Well the short of it is I spelt Mouse instead like a bazzzilin times throughout the thread  took like years for the boys to stop kidding me over it.

For your info: French start conversations differently than english, and yes we use more word to colour than the english. Canadians use english spelling that Americans don't like spelt. labour, colour and so on. Imagine for a guy like me that learned language by ear the puzzling logic of writing quick posts without a word processor...lol

I'll tag in the WH and post a poem I wrote without punctuation. Its a fun string of words meant to lift spirits of a chick. There's no punctuation because I just don't know how to.

Remember this club is all about sharing and tuning our skills, regardless of what the topic is. Nothing wrong with some humour along the way.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Patch

[saddlebum]

3 hours ago, Patch said:

Nothing to eulogize for! 

I really don't mind you's picking on my english and or spelling. I often get a good laugh on my end when I reread the confusion I often come up with. You're still a junior member with us and likely have managed not to read my jabs when a somebody  is being malicious to myself or another member 

I bet you'd all dig the story about Canadian Moose and motorcyclist? Well the short of it is I spelt Mouse instead like a bazzzilin times throughout the thread  took like years for the boys to stop kidding me over it.

For your info: French start conversations differently than english, and yes we use more word to colour than the english. Canadians use english spelling that Americans don't like spelt. labour, colour and so on. Imagine for a guy like me that learned language by ear the puzzling logic of writing quick posts with a word processor...lol

I'll tag in the WH and post a poem a wrote without punctuation. Its a fun string of words meant to lift spirits of a chick. There's no punctuation because I just don't know how to.

Remember this club is all about sharing and tuning our skills, regardless of what the topic is. Nothing wrong with some humour along the way.

I always blame my spelling or grammar errors on a defective keyboard.

[Terry NB]

On 6/18/2021 at 2:39 PM, Patch said:

Just a couple of comments: 

I think it was 86 when they brought in the stand safety switch, it really is a good idea but also it is exposed to harsh conditions.

The clutch switches do often fail due to the cycles they are exposed to. One of my old bikes was very problematic with the darn thing so I replaced it with a hydraulic switch. Having said that and have had an 86 MKll all I did was clean it and used plumbers grease for lube and water resistance.

But Terry, personally I would first check the charging system. Knowing that the battery went bad and that it is running rough points to the potential of a short. 

reread the underlined  segment from post 12:

"A stator that is shorted to ground may still produce full AC voltage from pin to pin. The problem with this is the rectifier changes the AC current to DC current and then uses the ground as one leg of the DC.

When the stator shorts to ground the AC and DC get mixed together."

If you are not sure how to check or set your multi meter just ask 

@Pasta Burner  nice to see you supporting the thread 👍

I just measured the 3 white wires from the stator as you mention....on one side (with female end) reads just under 5 ohms when testing all three wires. The other end, I assume is connected the rectifier show resistance to each other as well as all 3 show ground.

[Terry NB]

25 minutes ago, Terry NB said:

I just measured the 3 white wires from the stator as you mention....on one side (with female end) reads just under 5 ohms when testing all three wires. The other end, I assume is connected the rectifier show resistance to each other as well as all 3 show ground.

I did as Puc Puc on youtube 

 

I checked all 4 ignition coils and the primary read 4.8 Ohms and the Secondary were 22K ohms.

 

Quote

 

Edited June 22, 2021 by Terry NB

[Terry NB]

On 6/19/2021 at 8:31 PM, Patch said:

Assuming the coils check out then and because there is one bank or side not firing, check the "pickup coils" for resistance page 7-39 or 7-36 describing the connector and the sets you measure.

Pickup coils are to specs all @ 114 ohms

Edited June 22, 2021 by Terry NB

[Patch]

Right ON!! So your thoughts on the outcome: @Flyinfool and Terry?

[Patch]

I'LL post a new thread where we can can ....... about

[Terry NB]

31 minutes ago, Patch said:

Right ON!! So your thoughts on the outcome: @Flyinfool and Terry?

I believe that it is the TDI that needs to be replaced. 

[Patch]

Well you may be right but for me I would'nt  run near 5 ohms one the coils. The system is designed for 3ish. So like @saddlebum  said at the beginning check the plug too.

Edited June 23, 2021 by Patch

[Terry NB]

I just took out the ignition coils from the bike. The Primary on all 4 are 2.8ohms...secondaries are all around 13 Kohm with the plug wires removed

I must of made a typo with the 4.8 ohm primary .

[Terry NB]

Now.....if it is the TDI....should I go used.....or look at the one available from Ignitech ?

[saddlebum]

Not sure if this was already mentioned earlier or not  but Don't forget to check the removable plug boots. Many have replaced TDI's and coils only to find the plug boots were faulty. If you look close you can see that the internal parts of the OEM plug boots can be removed, inspected and cleaned on the 1st and 2nd gens. They can get corroded inside which cause them to fail.

Edited June 23, 2021 by saddlebum

[Patch]

Not sure if I missed the post about voltage? Were you able to measure the voltage at all for coils?

Like Bum I would be slow to simply replace the TCI. Wondering if I can get you to check the orange, grey, yellow and blue/white wires that lead from the coils to the TCI main plug.

My preferred way to do this is with a test light in reverse: Hook the clip end to the possessive side of the battery and the probe end to the mentioned wires.Each wire should be grounded when the key is off. Again using the light probe places a demand on the circuit so it should show a solid ground when using this method.

The reason for the ohm choice of coil was to protect the TCI from a jump in the coils that can occur when a coil misfires. Such a misfire can overload the circuit causing the TCI to fry.

You may not have noticed but when you kill the engine via switch the TCI should ground all the coils to discharge them. If a coil doesn't get discharge it will like find another path for the high voltage, TCI killer  

The diagram I am using for the codes is the one posted below and at the bottom of the page

https://www.venturerider.org/wiring/86-87 Yamaha Venture DS Wiring Diagram Rev D.pdf

Edited June 23, 2021 by Patch

[Patch]

Just a quick note: I am assuming your coils are still not hooked up? We wouldn't want to charge the coil

[luvmy40]

8 hours ago, Terry NB said:

Now.....if it is the TDI....should I go used.....or look at the one available from Ignitech ?

if you replace the TDI, unless you can find a used one for stupid cheap, I'd highly recommend the Ignitech. Also, if you haven't done so already, relocate it to the top of the air box. It'll stay cooler, dryer and be much easier to access if need be.

[Terry NB]

The battery....battery box...coils and TDI are all out of the bike now....as well as most if the front fairing on both sides.

[Patch]

Wondering what the connections to the TDI looked like?

Have you completed testing, made a decision?

[Terry NB]

19 hours ago, Patch said:

Wondering what the connections to the TDI looked like?

Have you completed testing, made a decision?

Yes.....I have a used TDI arriving Wednesday

[Terry NB]

After changing the CDI I now have the engine firing on all 4 cyls......it idles fine......but when giving it throttle it bogs down to the point if I keep the throttle open or increase it it will stall...the Tach is still slow to respond.

 

 

[Patch]

Consider you have CV Carbs.... The intake box must be intact when opening the throttle.

[Terry NB]

7 minutes ago, Patch said:

Consider you have CV Carbs.... The intake box must be intact when opening the throttle.

I will hook up the intake box and filter and see if it will cure the problem.......but the Tach still seems slow in responding.

I would hate to get it all back together and it continue to act up....and have to tear it down again.

I am technically inclined.......but I am far from a mechanic and  trouble shooter

 

[Patch]

Patients GrassHopper: The Cv's will not power up without the Velocity of the intake.

[Terry NB]

On 6/23/2021 at 7:35 PM, Patch said:

Not sure if I missed the post about voltage? Were you able to measure the voltage at all for coils?

Like Bum I would be slow to simply replace the TCI. Wondering if I can get you to check the orange, grey, yellow and blue/white wires that lead from the coils to the TCI main plug.

My preferred way to do this is with a test light in reverse: Hook the clip end to the possessive side of the battery and the probe end to the mentioned wires.Each wire should be grounded when the key is off. Again using the light probe places a demand on the circuit so it should show a solid ground when using this method.

The reason for the ohm choice of coil was to protect the TCI from a jump in the coils that can occur when a coil misfires. Such a misfire can overload the circuit causing the TCI to fry.

You may not have noticed but when you kill the engine via switch the TCI should ground all the coils to discharge them. If a coil doesn't get discharge it will like find another path for the high voltage, TCI killer  

The diagram I am using for the codes is the one posted below and at the bottom of the page

https://www.venturerider.org/wiring/86-87 Yamaha Venture DS Wiring Diagram Rev D.pdf

All wires tested for ground were fine... with ignition ON Red/white wire to CDI shows 12.5vdc.

Question.... the plug wires screw into the boot.....the other end on the coil....is that screwed in as well or just pushed in and lock with the plastic nut?

[Squidley]

5 minutes ago, Terry NB said:

All wires tested for ground were fine... with ignition ON Red/white wire to CDI shows 12.5vdc.

Question.... the plug wires screw into the boot.....the other end on the coil....is that screwed in as well or just pushed in and lock with the plastic nut?

It's locked in with that plastic nut, there's an oring in there that acts like a compression fitting when the nut is tightened if memory serves me right.