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Front and rear wheel removal -- Level of Difficulty


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It's time for some new tires.  I purchased the Shinko 777 for the rear, and the Elite 4 for the front.  My plan is to take the wheels off the bike and have bike shop replace the tires.  My question is what is the level of difficulty in removing the wheels?  I have the attached jack. 

20210426_214935.jpg

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Different bike experience on the 2nd gen. But no matter which wheel you take off first the bike will want to list. I wouldnt think the difficulty is any difference than a 2nd gen. Puc is the master of tire changing on the first gens.

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Posted (edited)

MK1 or MK2?

The MK1 makes short work of removing the rear tire compared to the MK2.

 

I wouldn't say either is dificult but there is a good bit of prep work to get to actually removing the wheel. Follow the service manual and you will have no problems. There are some short cuts that work, but I would advise going by the book the first time around.

 

One good short cut, if you pay close attention and do it safely, allows you to remove both wheels from the centerstand with no lift.

Set up on the center stand, then use a ratchet strap from the center stand to the front frame to secure the center stand in the forward position. use a small bottle jack under the front cross member to lift the front end and remove the front wheel by the book. Let the bottle jack down, pull the front end down and secure it with a tied down strap. Remove rear wheel by the book.

 

It's critical to do this on a solid, flat surface free of debris. Do not attempt this method on grass or a gravel driveway.

Edited by luvmy40
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Neither are difficult if you are a bit handy, I just did mine a month ago. Take several pictures as you go, that way you will know the exact washer placement etc when you reassemble. Rear is a bit heavy to lift and hold while assembling, I use a rolling floor jack to assist.

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Not that I am against mixing tires as long as they are of the same construction type and though I am not personally familiar with the 777 I am on my second set 0f E4's. My concern would lie in the fact that the E4 has a fairly stiff side wall were I understand the Shinko's have a more flexible side wall and I would want to be sure those differences do not have an adverse effect on the bikes handling. I am sure someone here has mixed them and it would be good if they made a comment on their experience.

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2 hours ago, saddlebum said:

Not that I am against mixing tires as long as they are of the same construction type and though I am not personally familiar with the 777 I am on my second set 0f E4's. My concern would lie in the fact that the E4 has a fairly stiff side wall were I understand the Shinko's have a more flexible side wall and I would want to be sure those differences do not have an adverse effect on the bikes handling. I am sure someone here has mixed them and it would be good if they made a comment on their experience.

My E-4 test journey (that I wont be going back to, the E-4 is just way to stiff resulting in no way to remove from the wheel without a tire machine which, if you like the option of spooning it off to repair a flat out in the middle of nowhere is absolutely not going to happen) is almost over. I have ran a Shinko 230 on the front during the whole test period and now with the E-4 almost down to its wear bars and can honestly say = no problem mixing them. Keep in mind I am talking bias to bias. I have no clue about mixing radial to bias, have never done that and would advise against it personally.

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16 hours ago, vulcanb822 said:

It's time for some new tires.  I purchased the Shinko 777 for the rear, and the Elite 4 for the front.  My plan is to take the wheels off the bike and have bike shop replace the tires.  My question is what is the level of difficulty in removing the wheels?  I have the attached jack. 

20210426_214935.jpg

 

15 hours ago, djh3 said:

Different bike experience on the 2nd gen. But no matter which wheel you take off first the bike will want to list. I wouldnt think the difficulty is any difference than a 2nd gen. Puc is the master of tire changing on the first gens.

I highly suspect this idea of myself being the Master of anything is nonsense @djh3 but I will take a shot at this give some backyard mechanicing advice anyway..

@vulcanb822, 1st and foremost would be I advise you to find a dealership you KNOW does a fair amount of tire swaps, someone you can trust your life with. Make sure they KNOW to replace valve stems. 

So far, IMHO, you have gotten very worthy advice. Some steps that may help you in the removal would be:

1. Give the calipers, front and rear a good smack with a rubber mallet to back the caliper pistons off a little to allow ease in slipping the calipers off.  Spray a clean rag down with some carb or brake cleaner and wipe the rotors back off after job is finished.

2. After removing wheels, front and back, remove the bushings from the grease seals on the outer most areas of the wheels and place them in a safe place at your work area before taking the wheel assemblies in for tire swaps. It is not uncommon, if left in the wheel assemblies for those bushing to pop out at the installing bike shop never to be seen again. Replace them back into their respectful places when you get the wheels with new tires on them back from the dealership. I also push as much fresh grease into wheel bearings as possible before I reinstall the bushings.

3. While you have the rear wheel off, pop the snap ring off the rear hub and pull the drive pin hub and grease the pins with Lucas Red and Tacky lube.. I have tested many brands of gear/pin lube and that Lucas is the only one I have found to date that remains intact tire swap to tire swap. Use the same product on the exposed hub gear and inner gear in the rear end.

4. I ALWAYS clean my caliper pistons while down and have had zero sticky/stuck calipers by doing so,, a huge plus if Murphy likes to tag along on long distance travels that end up taking multiple tire swaps in the process or even for just buzzing around your state. I will include a video of the process of doing so at the end of this..

5. For reinstalling/lining up the rear wheel gears when reinstalling I like to slide the rear axle in part way from the brake side, lifting the wheel up and sliding the axle thru the wheel bearings and into the driven side of the rear end so the wheel is being supported and aligned with the axle. Now I can align the gears in the hub easily by rotating the rear wheel gently as I slide it into the gears.. Piece of cake! After the gears are engaged I simply pull the axle back out and finish mounting the caliper bracket/caliper.

6. Make sure you are replacing the axle washer correctly at the caliper mount on the rear wheel so your caliper does not end up in a bind. 

Really not that big/hard of a job and IMHO, something everyone who rides long distance should be comfortable with tackling as one just never ever knows if/when knowing how to do could come in very handy!  YOU CAN DO IT!! Here are some vids that may help:

 

 

 

 

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I have not used the Red N Tacky, but a similar synthetic "CV" lube. Just want to make sure its not light duty like white grease or something. Probably can get the red n tacky at local parts store. I used what I had. Fer some reason I had half a can of this stuff still around.

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Although it’s always a good idea to note (and photograph) the order in which things came apart, I’ve found in my experience having the manual or an exploded view is also really helpful. There’s a good chance the guy/guys who’ve worked on your bike before you may have been less skilled than you.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Patmac6075 said:

Although it’s always a good idea to note (and photograph) the order in which things came apart, I’ve found in my experience having the manual or an exploded view is also really helpful. There’s a good chance the guy/guys who’ve worked on your bike before you may have been less skilled than you.

That is a true possibility, yet at the same time Yamaha's  photography skills when it comes to their 1st gen manuals leaves a whole lot to be desired. Sometimes I think my grandchildren could have done a better job with their crayons. This is why a lot of members here create pictures of the job at hand most of them taken by helpful members who do have a good idea of what they are doing. Even if you don't follow or agree exactly with the steps taken by the donator of the pics and maybe have a different way of approaching the task at hand, because of their clarity, and if you combine them with either the instructions in the manual or the advice given by the more skilled and knowledgeable members here, they are still without a doubt very useful.

Edited by saddlebum
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5 hours ago, saddlebum said:

That is a true possibility, yet at the same time Yamaha's  photography skills when it comes to their 1st gen manuals leaves a whole lot to be desired. Sometimes I think my grandchildren could have done a better job with their crayons. This is why a lot of members here create pictures of the job at hand most of them taken by helpful members who do have a good idea of what they are doing. Even if you don't follow or agree exactly with the steps taken by the donator of the pics and maybe have a different way of approaching the task at hand, because of their clarity, and if you combine them with either the instructions in the manual or the advice given by the more skilled and knowledgeable members here, they are still without a doubt very useful.

@saddlebum, Hey Bum,, quick question for you pertaining to this tire swapping business. I got the impression somehow we are not talking about a MK1 in this thread,,, may be wrong. All my experience has been with the MK1's, although I did help @videoarizona swap a new tire onto his 2nd Gen but that was my only other experience on the Ventures other than my 1/2 dozen tire swaps per year on my MK1's and flat fixing from punctured tires on the road. My question now is have you altered your MK2's in anyway to make tire removal easier/faster?  With a little practice (LOL) I got to the point that I could have the rear wheel on my 1st Gen off in less than 10 minutes.. Another member here who was a MK2 rider was commenting to me about the ease of which a the MK1 comes apart back there and mentioned he had found a way to remove the entire rear luggage assembly with 4 bolts on the MK2 making a tire swap on the 2 almost as easy as swapping on one on a 1.. Know anything about that?

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1 hour ago, cowpuc said:

@saddlebum, Hey Bum,, quick question for you pertaining to this tire swapping business. I got the impression somehow we are not talking about a MK1 in this thread,,, may be wrong. All my experience has been with the MK1's, although I did help @videoarizona swap a new tire onto his 2nd Gen but that was my only other experience on the Ventures other than my 1/2 dozen tire swaps per year on my MK1's and flat fixing from punctured tires on the road. My question now is have you altered your MK2's in anyway to make tire removal easier/faster?  With a little practice (LOL) I got to the point that I could have the rear wheel on my 1st Gen off in less than 10 minutes.. Another member here who was a MK2 rider was commenting to me about the ease of which a the MK1 comes apart back there and mentioned he had found a way to remove the entire rear luggage assembly with 4 bolts on the MK2 making a tire swap on the 2 almost as easy as swapping on one on a 1.. Know anything about that?

@cowpucI have only swapped out tires on the 1st gens. On my MK 2 did not have to remove the saddle bags but I did have to remove the right side exhaust pipe so the axle bolt would come out. Now to be clear I don't have OEM exhaust pipes and so not sure if that would still be required with the OEM pipes (guess I could look at my bike and see since I just replace my aftermarket pipes with OEM pipes last week. As far as removing the bags if you want to it is possible to remove the bags bumper and rear reflector in one piece. each bag has two bolts in the bottom and two in the top of the inside  wall. Once all eight bolts are removed and you removed the signal light bulb and socket from below you can carefully lift the entire assembly off in one piece. It can be a little tricky getting it to slide past the license plate holder as the mounting rubbers catch it if you do not remove them. Now having said all that for myself after having done it a few times, and for the little extra work (about 5 minutes), I find it less cumbersome to remove the reflector (one nut on the inside of each saddlebag ) and the center bumper section ( two sheet metal screws on each end ) and remove the saddle bags separately as well as making them easier to handle putting them back on (bumper ends and signal light housing can stay attached to the bags just remove the light sockets from underneath. the whole job takes about 15 to 20 minutes. Also the few minutes you save by not removing the extra pieces can be quickly used up struggling with double bags both removing and putting back on.

Edited by saddlebum
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On 4/27/2021 at 3:15 PM, cowpuc said:

My E-4 test journey (that I wont be going back to, the E-4 is just way to stiff resulting in no way to remove from the wheel without a tire machine which, if you like the option of spooning it off to repair a flat out in the middle of nowhere is absolutely not going to happen) is almost over. I have ran a Shinko 230 on the front during the whole test period and now with the E-4 almost down to its wear bars and can honestly say = no problem mixing them. Keep in mind I am talking bias to bias. I have no clue about mixing radial to bias, have never done that and would advise against it personally.

Mixing Radial with bias is a definite NO NO  and this applies to both cars and motorcycles. We have been able to get away with it on transports using radial on the steer axle and bias on the tandem drives but that is the only case were it is acceptable. 

As Far as spooning your own hides @cowpucthe only reason you had issues with the E4s is like I told you :backinmyday:in another thread. Your spoons are too short you need a set of 3 foot truck tire spoons and somebody  heavy enough to stand in the middle of the wheel while you apply leverage without tweaking your back. easy peasy :whistling:

:rotfl::rotfl::canada:

 

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The E4 is available in both bias and radial were as i have only seen the the 777 in bias so watch that if you intend to mix. And even if both tires are bias i think I would be a little concerned over the fact that the E4 has a much stiffer side wall then the Shinko though it may not matter at all, as long as both are either radial or bias but not one radial and one bias.

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Has anybody mentioned the need to use a Jack Adapter to get the thing up in the air?  Or Blocks on the Jack and tie the thing down real good.???

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When referring to a jack adapter, is an adapter needed when using a jack specifically designed for motorcycles?  I have the one pictured at the start of this thread.

 

Also, I have the 1991 Venture.  I believe that is referred to as MK1???

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1 hour ago, vulcanb822 said:

Also, I have the 1991 Venture.  I believe that is referred to as MK1???

A '91 we would refer to as a 1st gen MKII. '83 thru '85 are the original 1200cc motor (MKI) '86 thru '93 are the 1300cc motor and a body style change (MKII) 

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Thanks Squidley.

Someone mentioned making sure I tie the bike down good.  Am I tying it down to anything in particular?  Sorry for all the questions.  Just trying to make sure I'm not missing anything.

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Help from a friend. Getting it up on a 2x4 is going to be quite challenging by yourself. You really don't need the extra height.

If you are going to use my suggested method, make sure you use a ratchet strap to secure the center stand in the down/forward position. I'd use a 2x6 at least. You don't want any chance of knocking it off when rocking the front end down.

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On 4/27/2021 at 7:16 AM, luvmy40 said:

Let the bottle jack down, pull the front end down and secure it with a tied down strap.

What am I securing the front end to with the tie down strap?

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19 hours ago, vulcanb822 said:

When referring to a jack adapter, is an adapter needed when using a jack specifically designed for motorcycles?  I have the one pictured at the start of this thread.

 

Also, I have the 1991 Venture.  I believe that is referred to as MK1???

...Nevermind... I cant read....I thought I was talking about a '99 - '13 Venture.  Sorry.... Carry On!

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8 hours ago, vulcanb822 said:

 

What am I securing the front end to with the tie down strap?

Secured to the front of the bike, could be anywhere, but what ever you it to, can't move and needs to be solid, like part of the frame.

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