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Engine Oil


Idrys
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10 minutes ago, Midicat said:

So here's my question. 

I have had my bike serviced at a bike shop. Oil change only and when I pick it up after service the oil is perfectly clear. How do they do that? Now that I change my own oil, I can never get it that clear. What is the secret? 

 

Are you sure there is enough oil in there? I have never seen perfectly clear engine oil, mineral oil, castrol oil, but never engine oil.

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1 hour ago, Midicat said:

So here's my question. 

I have had my bike serviced at a bike shop. Oil change only and when I pick it up after service the oil is perfectly clear. How do they do that? Now that I change my own oil, I can never get it that clear. What is the secret? 

 

Are you draining it when warm/hot?  You’ll typically get more out if the engine isn’t cold.  I did this change cold but the sight glass is fairly clean looking after warming it up a bit.

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Midicat said:

So here's my question. 

I have had my bike serviced at a bike shop. Oil change only and when I pick it up after service the oil is perfectly clear. How do they do that? Now that I change my own oil, I can never get it that clear. What is the secret? 

 

I do not generally worry much about it as you will never get all the dirty oil out of the engine since there are areas where oil collects and mixes with the new oil once you start the the bike.

However  if you drain the oil and remove the filter while it is hot and then leave it sit with the plug out and filter off until it stops dripping you tend to drain more of the old oil out plus  sediment which would still be  suspended in the oil. If the the bike is cold or has sat for a bit a certain amount of the suspended sediment in the oil will settle to the bottom and not drain out with the oil. Also make sure the bike is upright and sitting so there is good flow in the direction of the oil plug. If you you really want to give it a good clean add a bottle of seafoam to a full crankcase of oil and let it idle for 10 to 20 min (DO NOT RUN HIGHER THAN IDLE) then immediately drain oil and remove filter while hot and wait until it stops dripping before replacing oil and filter. I

If you use an engine flush other than seafoam make sure it is safe for the clutch

Edited by saddlebum
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18 hours ago, Pasta Burner said:

Are you draining it when warm/hot?  You’ll typically get more out if the engine isn’t cold.  I did this change cold but the sight glass is fairly clean looking after warming it up a bit.

I always have engine hot before changing the oil. I think I will try letting it sit for some time before I add the new oil. 

 

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10 minutes ago, saddlebum said:

Generally if you drain the oil and remove the filter while it is hot and then leave it sit with the plug out and filter off until it stops dripping you tend to drain more of the old oil out plus  sediment which would still be  suspended in the oil. If the the bike is cold or has sat for a bit a certain amount of the suspended sediment in the oil will settle to the bottom and not drain out with the oil. Also make sure the bike is upright and sitting so there is good flow in the direction of the oil plug. If you you really want to give it a good clean add a pint of engine flush or bottle of seafoam to a full crankcase of oil and let it idle for 10 to 20 min (DO NOT RUN HIGHER THAN IDLE) then immediately drain oil and remove filter while hot and wait until it stops dripping before replacing oil and filter.

I thought about adding seafoam and letting it idle for a bit but my impatience keeps me from going to that extent. I will try it... One day. 

I always have the bike on centre stand and engine hot when starting an oil change. 

 

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Seafoam recomends adding one ounce per qt of oil if you use it in the engine oil.  

My old 2002 F150 5.4L with 165,000 miles on it recently started making a little valve train noise on cold startup.  I added 6 ounces of Seafoam to the oil about 30 miles before an oil change and drove it gently.  Now there is no valve train noise on cold startup.  So, I was pleased with the result.  I usually don't believe in oil additives but it seems to have worked well.  

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Posted (edited)
On 4/11/2021 at 3:13 PM, Midicat said:

So here's my question. 

I have had my bike serviced at a bike shop. Oil change only and when I pick it up after service the oil is perfectly clear. How do they do that? Now that I change my own oil, I can never get it that clear. What is the secret? 

 

Something I forgot about until tonight while working on the bike. The transmission shaft cover on the left side is held on with a bunch of Allen head bolts. The bottom one has a copper washer and when you remove that bolt an extra 1/2 cup of oil drains out. If I being fussy with my oil change I will remove this bolt to drain the extra oil but most times I don't bother and that is why I probably didn't think to mention it earlier.

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Edited by saddlebum
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I’m not much of a believer in engine flush chemicals. I have seen truck engines end up with oil pump screens stopped up after using a flush. These were high mileage engines that probably had a lot of build up that the chemicals broke loose and sucked it into the screens, but I hesitate to use it in any engines. Call me old fashioned but regular oil/filter changes are all I do. 

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4 minutes ago, RDawson said:

I’m not much of a believer in engine flush chemicals. I have seen truck engines end up with oil pump screens stopped up after using a flush. These were high mileage engines that probably had a lot of build up that the chemicals broke loose and sucked it into the screens, but I hesitate to use it in any engines. Call me old fashioned but regular oil/filter changes are all I do. 

Ha that’s the exact issue I believe I’m having with my dishwasher.  Used some dishwasher cleaner from Cascade which had it smelling and sparkling great but then the drain hose started clogging up.

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13 minutes ago, saddlebum said:

Something I forgot about until tonight while working on the bike. The transmission shaft cover on the left side is held on with a bunch of Allen head bolts. The bottom one has a copper washer and when you remove that bolt an extra 1/2 cup of oil drains out. If I being fussy with my oil change I will remove this bolt to drain the extra oil but most times I don't bother and that is why I probably didn't think to mention it earlier.

20210412_210259.jpg

20210412_211005.jpg

That’s actually great to know!  That area is one I was focused in on looking for my phantom leak.

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5 minutes ago, RDawson said:

I’m not much of a believer in engine flush chemicals. I have seen truck engines end up with oil pump screens stopped up after using a flush. These were high mileage engines that probably had a lot of build up that the chemicals broke loose and sucked it into the screens, but I hesitate to use it in any engines. Call me old fashioned but regular oil/filter changes are all I do. 

I have to say for the most part I agree but there are times when I have found very beneficial.  In my experience  as a truck mechanic for 50 years in cases such as you mentioned the engines are so badly slugged up from lack of proper maintenance such as running far too long between oil changes that they were pretty well on the road to failure by then any way, so yes in cases such as those especially if it is an aggressive flushing formula there is the risk of this happening. But for most engines properly maintained and if only used on the rare occasion no harm should result. In the case of seafoam it is not aggressive at all and relatively safe.

BTW I once pulled an oil pan off a truck were the sludge was an inch think and the only place there was no sludge was a small valley formed around the oil pump pickup screen. It was so unbeleivable I had to call the rest of the shop over to see it.

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32 minutes ago, Pasta Burner said:

That’s actually great to know!  That area is one I was focused in on looking for my phantom leak.

Check your clutch slave mounting as well you may have to remove that cover pictured in my previous post to get a better look at it but make sure you have a gasket on hand for both first to avoid downing your because you have to wait for a gasket.

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40 minutes ago, Pasta Burner said:

Ha that’s the exact issue I believe I’m having with my dishwasher.  Used some dishwasher cleaner from Cascade which had it smelling and sparkling great but then the drain hose started clogging up.

There is a screen in the bottom of some  dishwasher's and if not seated properly large portions of food sneak by and plug the hose. So may not be cascades fault. NO I am not a cascade rep. LOL

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1 hour ago, saddlebum said:

BTW I once pulled an oil pan off a truck were the sludge was an inch think and the only place there was no sludge was a small valley formed around the oil pump pickup screen. It was so unbeleivable I had to call the rest of the shop over to see it.

The first engine I ever tore down was an old Chevy 350 that used the paraffin based Quaker State and probably never changed it. Trying to learn how to pull the heads on an engine when I couldn’t find the bolts was rough on an inexperienced teenager. Sludged  up to the rockers and a rod thru the pan. NOW BACK TO SCHEDULED PROGRAMMING. Sorry for the hijacking. 

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My Whirlpool dishwasher wasn't spraying enough water to clean the dishes in the top rack.  The large screen in the bottom was clean and I don't see how anything could bypass it but a piece of broken glass did and was restricting flow to the recirc pump suction.  I disassembled it to get to the pump suction and removed the piece of glass and it's back to normal.  I found a youtube video tha showed how to do it.  There is a video on youtube showing you how to do everything!

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, RDawson said:

The first engine I ever tore down was an old Chevy 350 that used the paraffin based Quaker State and probably never changed it. Trying to learn how to pull the heads on an engine when I couldn’t find the bolts was rough on an inexperienced teenager. Sludged  up to the rockers and a rod thru the pan. NOW BACK TO SCHEDULED PROGRAMMING. Sorry for the hijacking. 

Funny you mention Quaker State. That is what this owner claimed to use QUOTE: "I don't understand it, I may not have changed my oil as often as I should (insert chuckle ) but I only ever used good Quaker state oil". I had a hard time holding back a big smirk. I would not use Quaker state on my wheel barrow. Any engine I ever pulled apart ( and that was a lot maybe up to 25 engines a year ) that was slugged up had been running Quaker State.

When I was fleet manager for Beeline carrier's, which consisted of 300 trucks with Cat and  Cummins diesels the Quaker State rep came in to see me about setting up a contract with them. We bought oil in bulk for the fleet 500 Can/gal equal to 600 us/gal at a time. My reply to him was no thank you the varnish content in their oil was too high. His reply was true Quaker had a little more varnish (insert chuckle ) than other oils but they actually have proven to reduce oil burning. I felt like say of course it did buy gumming everything up ( but I was nice and said I was more than happy with what we were using. My top choices for oil in those days was Shell Rotunda or Texaco Ursa.

Edited by saddlebum
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Hmm interesting.  I never knew Quaker State wasn’t desired.  Cant say I’ve ever used it but always assumed it a reputable name brand.  Gotta say sorry to @Idrys this thread has been hijacked a few times, but at least we’re back on the topic of oil.

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I suspect Quaker State oil is okay now isn't it?  But, in the old days, it would sludge up an engine pdq.  My exwife's father was a mechanic and if you mentioned Quaker State around him, he would go into a rant about how bad it was.  I remember one story of an engine that overheated and the Quaker State oil turned into a mayonnaise like substance that wouldn't even drain out when the drain plug was removed

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13 hours ago, BlueSky said:

I suspect Quaker State oil is okay now isn't it?  But, in the old days, it would sludge up an engine pdq.  My exwife's father was a mechanic and if you mentioned Quaker State around him, he would go into a rant about how bad it was.  I remember one story of an engine that overheated and the Quaker State oil turned into a mayonnaise like substance that wouldn't even drain out when the drain plug was removed

Not sure if Quaker has improved or not but with so many trustworthy oils plus my past experience of dealing with the poor souls who have paid the price for using it, I am not willing to gamble on it.

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Isnt that strange,, here in our area it was ALWAYS Pennzoil that created the sludge in the old days.. Quaker was ALWAYS the go to oil around here.. I cant tell you how many Chevy 283's ended up in my possession because of Pennzoil usage.. Cams lobes ran right off them..  On another note, I think it may be Honda Line oil that is crystal clear if memory serves me right.. I use to have a neighbor who worked for an oil distributer who also kept my oil supplied for free via damaged product from their warehouse and I had a bunch of bike oil that was clear as water.. I actually saved the stuff and ran it in my own bikes cause I always liked being able to see when the oil was dirty at a glance... 

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On 4/13/2021 at 9:39 AM, saddlebum said:

NOT everything...:confused07:....I am still trying to find one that will help me understand my wife....:Avatars_Gee_George:

The only men who understand women are gay men!:banana:

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4 minutes ago, BlueSky said:

The only men who understand women are gay men!:banana:

And   :backinmyday: that does not make it any easier for the rest of us men who get the "how come he gets it and you don't " accusation either verbally, physically :Avatars_Gee_George:  or worse the dreaded LOOK :Bunny2:

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