Venturous Randy Posted April 19, 2020 Share #1 Posted April 19, 2020 About a month ago I came across a listing on some DeWalt impact wrenches, which may have been on facebook marketplace. I ordered some and used my Paypal account to pay for them, which was about $97. When Paypal posted that the seller had responded with shipping information in an email, they did not post any shipping information as that part was blank. I did later receive an envelope with the tracking number on it, but it was a card with sticky smiley faces on it. I tried to contact the seller and their email was not valid. I then filed a dispute with Paypal describing what happened and even included a picture of envelope and the card of smiley faces. I just received a denial on my dispute with Paypal as they stated I received the item with the correct tracking number on it and this time, the tracking number was listed on their information. I have tried to contact Paypal using the transaction ID number assigned, again explaining what happened and it just immediately comes up as another denial. What are my options now as Paypal has no way that I have found of disputing a denial response. Do I now go back to my credit card company and take issue with Paypal on the charge? I thought that Paypal was supposed to help the buyer. Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowpuc Posted April 19, 2020 Share #2 Posted April 19, 2020 Did you pay with Paypal using send money to "Friends and Family" payment (a known common ploy by scammers = ask for you to do this) or thru the normal process of buying an item thru paypal with a specific reciept for the transaction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venturous Randy Posted April 19, 2020 Author Share #3 Posted April 19, 2020 I used the normal receipt type program I have always used. The seller email is; ptfqkr@hoteymail.club. At the time of purchase, I did not confirm the email address was valid, which it turned out to be invalid. Now, after I look more at the email address, I have never seen hoteymail. Also, if you break down the first part, pt (not sure about) and fqkr sure does sound like something else. The only way I could respond back to Paypal was to do the survey on what they could do better. Yep, I gave them some suggestions. I think that Monday that I am going to contact my Credit Card supplier, which is the local Credit Union that I use. This is the picture of the envelope I also included with my original dispute. Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpencerPJ Posted April 19, 2020 Share #4 Posted April 19, 2020 Yes, I would take issue with your credit card company. It paid the seller direct, it did not pay PayPal, Paypal is just a middle man. File a claim, it's fraud and you should not be responsible for fraud. Now if it went through your bank card, it might be a bit harder. I would guess that your package has a weight on it, less than impact wrenches... Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyinfool Posted April 19, 2020 Share #5 Posted April 19, 2020 Do not try to handle it online with PP. You need to call at work with a human. The computers simply look for tracking and delivery. I human is able to understand that there is no way the ordered item could fit in that envelope. It also matter a lot to the computer as to what option you click for your reason for the complaint. If you picked item not delivered then it will look no farther than the tracking number. since they did send something you have to use the item not as described. I would call PP and talk to a human. I would also call the CC and have them start the refund from their end. That will also prod PP in to taking your side. Again with the CC do not use the online computers, talk to a human. If you still can get copies of the web page you ordered from and print them out to prove that you were not intending to pay $97 for a sheet of smiley faces. I just went thru this same thing over a Kurig coffee maker last November. We received a single sock of a size to fit a newborn child instead of the coffee maker. It took a month and a half but PP eventually sided with me. I had to provide them with pics of the add that I purchased from and pics of what was received and I had to explicitly ponit out that it was impossible for the correct item to fit in that tiny envelope. The tracking number may also show the weight of the package that was sent, It wioll not be the weight of the tools. But you have to point this out to them, You will be dealing with someone that has no clue of what your tool is. Take nothing as common since, you must explane every single detail to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowpuc Posted April 19, 2020 Share #6 Posted April 19, 2020 Yes, I would take issue with your credit card company. It paid the seller direct, it did not pay PayPal, Paypal is just a middle man. File a claim, it's fraud and you should not be responsible for fraud. Now if it went through your bank card, it might be a bit harder. I would guess that your package has a weight on it, less than impact wrenches... Good Luck Actually Spence, as long as Randy used the traditional/business means of doing business with Paypal and not the "send funds to family/friends" = he did in fact pay Paypal (they charge for their services and were paid for them) and Paypal takes being involved with scams very seriously IMHO. I have done a ton of business with Paypal/Ebay = 10's of thousands of dollars worth and have found them very proactive about settling disputes like this.. I have seen it both ways, had my Paypal account with +40 grand in it locked up by Paypal because a buyer contacted them about 20 dollars worth of used parts before looking to me/the seller for answers and also personally froze up a couple of others accounts because of scams like Randy is involved in.. Rand,, my advice,, do exactly as Fool mentions.. Don't wait, get it going.. You will win! Thankfully you did not use the send money function,, in that case,, you have no recourse as it simply is not considered a business transaction on your part and the monies sent are sent as if you reached in your wallet, pulled out a few bucks and handed it freely and willingly to a pan handler.. All IMHO of course.. Puc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venturous Randy Posted April 20, 2020 Author Share #7 Posted April 20, 2020 I do have PP's number and called it and was advised that their hours are from 6am to 6pm Pacific time. They also advised by recording that they have limited help due to the virus thing. As I look at this, it is obvious that this was a scam from the beginning and since it was mailed thru USPS, it should even be considered mail fraud. I will try to get thru to PP first and that don't work, I will contact my credit card company tomorrow. Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venturous Randy Posted April 20, 2020 Author Share #8 Posted April 20, 2020 (edited) Well, I diligently went thru the process of calling Paypal to talk to a human at the time they said they would be open and after providing a bunch of info on my denied claim to a recording, I was then told that no humans were available and the office was shut down. I am now in the process of trying to get help with my Credit Card provider and am trying to get in to talk to someone at my local Credit Union, but all are only doing business thru the drivethru. Every way I turn, I am hitting a wall for help. Randy Edited April 20, 2020 by Venturous Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venturous Randy Posted April 20, 2020 Author Share #9 Posted April 20, 2020 (edited) I finally got to talk to someone at my Credit Union, even if it was meeting a person outside and giving them all my information which he scanned and gave back to me. I also included a cover letter with all the bullet points covering each step and each response from Paypal. He said he would immediately submit all this to Visa as they were the ones that made the decision. He also made a copy of the picture that I submitted to Paypal. I have also reviewed the statutes from the USPS website on mail fraud and this clearly fits their definition. I am considering not only submitting what information I have on the seller, but including Paypal too. As you all can tell, I am pretty pissed about this. Randy Edited April 20, 2020 by Venturous Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowpuc Posted April 20, 2020 Share #10 Posted April 20, 2020 Get em Randy,, get em get em get!! Like you,,I CANNOT STAND SCAMMERS IN ANY FORM!!! GET EMMMMM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowpuc Posted April 20, 2020 Share #11 Posted April 20, 2020 JOHNSON CITY TENNESSEE!! Randy,, not to another thread (sorry about that, got a really bad habit of that) but is that the REAL Johnson City Tennessee brother?? The following pics were of Tweeks years ago on the side of 26 about 10 miles south/south bound lane out of Johnson City and a pic of what went thru her brand new rear tire!! You anywhere near that spot? BTW,,, I got a ride into town with the rear wheel and my spoons at the hole thru the tire was wayyyy to big for plugging (brand spanking new tire with less than 1200 miles on it) and the awesome local Johnson City feller that took me in took me to a Honda shop not far into the city.. Once I explained what happened, those folks at the Honda shop treated me like GOLD!! They sold me a new rear tire at cost,, installed on their tire machine for free (so I wouldnt have to use my spoons) and gave me the grand tour of the upstairs of their dealership where millions of dollars of vintage bikes (some still brand new) and unobtainable vintage parts were stored!! IT WAS AWESOME!! 1st time I ever had to ride down a flat tired touring bike from speed and was actually glad it happened!! They gave me a free shirt that has thier name on it, I could do some digging and find out exactly who they are but I am wondering if you can guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midnightventure Posted April 20, 2020 Share #12 Posted April 20, 2020 It would seem like if anybody could work from home it would be Paypal employees. Of course India might not have those capabilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venturous Randy Posted April 20, 2020 Author Share #13 Posted April 20, 2020 Hey cowpuc. That would be Jim's Motorcycle shop and I live about a mile west of the shop as the crow flies. A few years ago they finally bought the Yamaha shop as it was struggling because the owners were simply jerks. My first business with Jim's was June 1, 1964 when my dad and I stopped in there and he bought me a new 125 Ducati Bronco. That was my introduction to motorcycles. I have never been upstairs at Jim's, but I have heard he has some real classic motorcycles still in the crates. Ken, who was the guy in the wheelchair, was the owner and he passed a few years ago. I don't know the details of the business, but it appears nothing noticeable has changed. Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowpuc Posted April 20, 2020 Share #14 Posted April 20, 2020 Hey cowpuc. That would be Jim's Motorcycle shop and I live about a mile west of the shop as the crow flies. A few years ago they finally bought the Yamaha shop as it was struggling because the owners were simply jerks. My first business with Jim's was June 1, 1964 when my dad and I stopped in there and he bought me a new 125 Ducati Bronco. That was my introduction to motorcycles. I have never been upstairs at Jim's, but I have heard he has some real classic motorcycles still in the crates. Ken, who was the guy in the wheelchair, was the owner and he passed a few years ago. I don't know the details of the business, but it appears nothing noticeable has changed. Randy BINGO!! GIVE THAT MAN A CIGAR!!! I read your response and went to dig the shirt out that they gave me yearssss ago - sure enough brother (see pics)!! Talk about a small world,, hard to imagine that years ago you got your first scoot from the same business (and probably from the same owner - I actually got introduced to the owner but he was not the one to give me the tour upstairs,,,, cant remember who that was,, maybe a family member who works the floor?) that rescued me while I was one mile from a really close friend who I would meet a few years later.. JUST CRAZY!! Another edge of the seat thought,,, my 1st factory race bike for MXin was a 1st Year model, 1973, Honda CR250M Elsinore that I bought brand new from a Honda shop I was spinning wrenches at back in Michigan... Wouldnt you know it,, there,, upstairs at Jims,, 2 - BRAND NEW, as you mention, IN THE CRATES = 73 Honda Elsinore 250's!! I thought my eyes would start bleeding!!! UNFORGETTABLE!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowpuc Posted April 20, 2020 Share #15 Posted April 20, 2020 Sent it to soon: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venturous Randy Posted April 22, 2020 Author Share #16 Posted April 22, 2020 (edited) Another update I just checked my Credit Card statement and the dispute with Visa has went in my favor and they have already refunded my money, so I will let Paypal worry about getting their money back. This went quicker than I expected. I am still POed at Paypal, but now it is their loss and it does not matter if they denied my claim or not. I do appreciate the comments and suggestions. Randy Edited April 22, 2020 by Venturous Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowpuc Posted April 22, 2020 Share #17 Posted April 22, 2020 Another update I just checked my Credit Card statement and the dispute with Visa has went in my favor and they have already refunded my money, so I will let Paypal worry about getting their money back. This went quicker than I expected. I am still POed at Paypal, but now it is their loss and it does not matter if they denied my claim or not. I do appreciate the comments and suggestions. Randy OUTSTANDING!!! Good for you brother and you are more than welcome on the comments!!!:thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyinfool Posted April 23, 2020 Share #18 Posted April 23, 2020 Keep an eye on PP and any bank accounts that you have linked to them, they have been know to get there money back that way. They may also close your account until you refund them, Or they may just get their money back from the seller like they should have in the first place. Just keep a close eye on things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venturous Randy Posted April 23, 2020 Author Share #19 Posted April 23, 2020 Keep an eye on PP and any bank accounts that you have linked to them, they have been know to get there money back that way. They may also close your account until you refund them, Or they may just get their money back from the seller like they should have in the first place. Just keep a close eye on things. Yeah, I am thinking the same thing. In this case, it was so blatant what the seller was doing and after Paypal denied my claim, they gave me no option to dispute the denial. If I had just a little more info on the seller, I would go thru the USPS mail fraud program and if Paypal gives me any crap, I may include them also, since they were involved in the money transfer. I wonder how often Paypal is involved in a USPS mail fraud claim? Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaseyJ955 Posted April 23, 2020 Share #20 Posted April 23, 2020 I went through one like this on Paypal and won, probably because it was an Ebay deal. I lack faith in Paypal and try not to use it if I can avoid it. They have been notorious for difficult cust service. My Visa credit card has some pretty stout consumer protections involved and has kicked easily into action more thank once. Now with times getting pretty tough we can expect to see lots and lots of sweet deals online that are actually scams just like this one. Note: debit cards, Visa or not, usually do not have seller protections the way an actual credit card does. I got mine specifically for shopping online and I'm pretty glad I did. I'm glad you got it sorted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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