VentureFar Posted March 3, 2018 Share #1 Posted March 3, 2018 To start with I don’t know what I am talking about. I have only heard the words here but never saw an explanation. When I am in 4th or 5th just below to the power band and I give it full throttle the revs come up obviously faster than the bike and then it evens out after a few moments of wild acceleration. Slipper clutch or clutch slipping ? Someone please explain this phenomenon. VentureFar... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowpuc Posted March 3, 2018 Share #2 Posted March 3, 2018 (edited) Well,, I am far from any form of an expert either Neil but, IMHO, it sounds like you are experiencing the ol' infamous clutch spring needs replacement routine (I say "Spring" as I believe the 2nd Gen has a single "diaphram" style clutch spring instead of multiple pressure plate springs like my 1st Gen does).. If you get to it soon enough, there is a good chance that is all you will need BUT, depending on how long the slippage has been happening - you could have glazed the fiber discs or worn them out of spec and will also need to replace them too. Unless your 2nd Gen has been modified or,,, unless your old brother is wayyyyy out there in left field with this comment (probably best to wait for the guru's to reply here cause I do tend to spend a fair amount of time playing in left field) and Mom Yam did in fact OEM you a Slipper - I am sure you dont have one.. Regardless,,, a Slipper Clutch actually functions in the reverse of how it sounds.. It actually "slips" on the downshifting side of the program and produces reduction of instanteous engine braking when downshifting and dropping the clutch in when you do.. The slipper is more well known in the liter track bike circles (like my R1) as engine breaking at high speeds when ramming down a gear can cause some ill effects to an unsuspecting/unfamiliar rider - resulting in decel tank slappers (view the first vid here if you wanna see an unforgettable example of what can happen when this occurrs) and also can attribute HUGELY to rear tire bounce as clearly heard in vid 2 below if you listen closely at about 3:40 and even better at 4:05 on the time line = yes,, that old vmax could DEFINITELY have gained from some decent rear shocks BUT = a "Slipper Clutch" would have also been a HUGE improvement back in that day IMHO!! By the way,,, I am not sure if you have heard comments from people talking about what can happen if Energy Conserving oil is used in a wet clutch application such as out scoots? One of the biggest reasons this is frowned upon is that clutch slippage like you are referring to is oft times the first indicator of someone having done this.. The friction modifiers just dont seem to fit well between the fiber and steel plates and bingo = first place slippage shows up is up in those top gears where the clutch is under a lot of constant stress (again - IMHO).. Not saying you did or didnt use inappropriate oil but just an FYI cause I love ya!!! Hope this helps my brother!! Puc Edited March 3, 2018 by cowpuc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowrollwv Posted March 3, 2018 Share #3 Posted March 3, 2018 Yes it sounds like your clutch is slipping. You do not have the slipper clutch in the 07. It is very easy to change in about an hour. Mine did the same thing and I went with the Barons clutch plate and new fiber disk. My old disk were not bad and can be used again as they are still in spec. The spring in these bikes are weak. When you are ready to replace it you can lay the bike over on the left crash bars to access the clutch cover with out loosing any oil. You will need a long ball end Allen wrench to get to the boles at the bottom of the pan close to the exhaust pipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mover Posted March 3, 2018 Share #4 Posted March 3, 2018 May I recommend you consider the clutch kits from skydoc. I was experiencing a similar issue when getting on the throttle in 3rd gear. Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowrollwv Posted March 3, 2018 Share #5 Posted March 3, 2018 My bad I forgot about Skydoc's kits. They are very good also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VentureFar Posted March 4, 2018 Author Share #6 Posted March 4, 2018 Ugg more money to spend. It has done this for 34,000 miles. I have 39000 on it now and got it at 5000. Not just a feature huh? VentureFar... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongobobny Posted March 4, 2018 Share #7 Posted March 4, 2018 Yup, one of the few unfortunate "bugs" with the 2nd gen. Good old Cheaper, Better, Faster (choose 2)... The other bugs are the ignition switch and the fuel pump points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDawson Posted March 4, 2018 Share #8 Posted March 4, 2018 I've got it too. I just ordered the Skydoc kit. I installed it in my MKII with good results so going that route again. Ordered Mic-Mutes and Amplirider to make it a day of upgrades. :mo money: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Du-Rron Posted March 4, 2018 Share #9 Posted March 4, 2018 It has done this for 34,000 miles. I have 39000 on it now and got it at 5000. Not just a feature huh? VentureFar... ????? What ????? Please make sure you are not overfilling your clutch master if you do your own work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VentureFar Posted March 4, 2018 Author Share #10 Posted March 4, 2018 ????? What ????? Please make sure you are not overfilling your clutch master if you do your own work. I haven’t touched the clutch master ever. Please expound on your above concerns. Thanks VentureFar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongobobny Posted March 4, 2018 Share #11 Posted March 4, 2018 One other possibility, what are you using for oil??? Using the wrong oil can make your clutch slip... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted March 4, 2018 Share #12 Posted March 4, 2018 To start with I don’t know what I am talking about. I have only heard the words here but never saw an explanation. When I am in 4th or 5th just below to the power band and I give it full throttle the revs come up obviously faster than the bike and then it evens out after a few moments of wild acceleration. Slipper clutch or clutch slipping ? Someone please explain this phenomenon. VentureFar... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Before going for the clutch juggler check the expansion relief hole in the base of the reserve. It could be plugged and the expanding fluid has no place to go and starts to apply pressure to the slave causing the clutch to slip. Also make sure that the reserve isn't over full which will cause the slip as well. The reason that the fluid level in the sight glass should only be half way. BTW one of those wire ties you can find in the produce section of the grocery store after the cover is stripped off make a dandy expansion hole cleaner.... :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
videoarizona Posted March 4, 2018 Share #13 Posted March 4, 2018 Before going for the clutch juggler check the expansion relief hole in the base of the reserve. It could be plugged and the expanding fluid has no place to go and starts to apply pressure to the slave causing the clutch to slip. Also make sure that the reserve isn't over full which will cause the slip as well. The reason that the fluid level in the sight glass should only be half way. BTW one of those wire ties you can find in the produce section of the grocery store after the cover is stripped off make a dandy expansion hole cleaner.... :-) I'm with Condor...before you change out the clutch springs, flush out the clutch master. I use a high E guitar string to clean the tiny relief hole in the master. Be careful, as it should squirt out a bit of brake fluid and go everywhere if you don't have the lid on. Use on Dot 4 brake fluid in the 2nd Gen. Make sure you flush her well. Should take a bit of fluid to get everything out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VentureFar Posted March 4, 2018 Author Share #14 Posted March 4, 2018 I'm with Condor...before you change out the clutch springs, flush out the clutch master. I use a high E guitar string to clean the tiny relief hole in the master. Be careful, as it should squirt out a bit of brake fluid and go everywhere if you don't have the lid on. Use on Dot 4 brake fluid in the 2nd Gen. Make sure you flush her well. Should take a bit of fluid to get everything out. thanks for this info. Where is the “bleeder” port located for the clutch? remember your audience - Mr UNwrench. VentureFar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leroy Posted March 4, 2018 Share #15 Posted March 4, 2018 I'm not an expert either but I would recommend replacing the stock bleeders on the brakes and clutch with speed bleeders. Sure makes flushing easier. If you are careful and quick enough not much fluid comes out while installing the speed bleeders. Be sure to protect everything you don't want fluid on. It is recommended to flush every two years. I did mine two years after it was sold new (bought in 2015 but it is a 2012) and it looked like coffee with a little creamer in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VentureFar Posted March 4, 2018 Author Share #16 Posted March 4, 2018 I'm not an expert either but I would recommend replacing the stock bleeders on the brakes and clutch with speed bleeders. Sure makes flushing easier. If you are careful and quick enough not much fluid comes out while installing the speed bleeders. Be sure to protect everything you don't want fluid on. It is recommended to flush every two years. I did mine two years after it was sold new (bought in 2015 but it is a 2012) and it looked like coffee with a little creamer in it. But where is the clutch bleeder located on the Gen 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted March 4, 2018 Share #17 Posted March 4, 2018 (edited) The bleeder for the clutch is under that square rubber cap on the left side of the engine aft of the V. The expansion hole is at the base of the reserve. With the reserve cover off and just slightly squeezing the clutch lever you should see a small ripple appear on the surface of the fluid. If not it's plugged. The fluid should be like water clear. If it's dark at all it's time for a bleed. Speed Bleeders are great. http://www.speedbleeder.com/ Edited March 4, 2018 by Condor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIZ Posted March 4, 2018 Share #18 Posted March 4, 2018 The bleeder and square rubber cap is actually on the left side of the engine.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted March 4, 2018 Share #19 Posted March 4, 2018 The bleeder and square rubber cap is actually on the left side of the engine.. Thanks for catching that.... Everything is ass backwards today... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Du-Rron Posted March 5, 2018 Share #20 Posted March 5, 2018 I haven’t touched the clutch master ever. Please expound on your above concerns. Thanks VentureFar... Well... seems we have a 10 year old clutch system on original fluid that has been slipping since it had 5000 miles on it, starting about 35000 miles ago. If you have not serviced it at all, now is probably not the time to start wrenching on it. My 1st suggestion would be just to take it to your favorite shop and have them work on it. You have already said that you are Mr. UNwrench and there is nothing wrong with that at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VentureFar Posted March 5, 2018 Author Share #21 Posted March 5, 2018 Well... seems we have a 10 year old clutch system on original fluid that has been slipping since it had 5000 miles on it, starting about 35000 miles ago. If you have not serviced it at all, now is probably not the time to start wrenching on it. My 1st suggestion would be just to take it to your favorite shop and have them work on it. You have already said that you are Mr. UNwrench and there is nothing wrong with that at all. i am an UN wrench but I do my own wrenching after getting my head around the project. Planning, watching videos, laying out the tools etc etc since each attempt is a first for me. Honestly I have always managed to accomplish the goal. I just replaced my front pads with ebc HH and bled th fluid without running the reservoir dry and not getting any dot 4 on my tank :-) i can do it but it helps to be explained to me like it is my first time- because it is. Then I can follow the simple instructions. Thx for your thoughts. VentureFar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Du-Rron Posted March 5, 2018 Share #22 Posted March 5, 2018 i am an UN wrench but I do my own wrenching after getting my head around the project. VentureFar... Ok, question for you. Why do you want to tackle this versus just take it to the shop? My way and the suggestions I will make will be hard, time consuming and expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VentureFar Posted March 5, 2018 Author Share #23 Posted March 5, 2018 Ok, question for you. Why do you want to tackle this versus just take it to the shop? My way and the suggestions I will make will be hard, time consuming and expensive. so far this sounds doable. What am I missing ? The bleeder for the clutch is under that square rubber cap on the left side of the engine aft of the V. The expansion hole is at the base of the reserve. With the reserve cover off and just slightly squeezing the clutch lever you should see a small ripple appear on the surface of the fluid. If not it's plugged. The fluid should be like water clear. If it's dark at all it's time for a bleed. VentureFar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowrollwv Posted March 5, 2018 Share #24 Posted March 5, 2018 When you have the lid off the reserve be very careful that none of the fluid gets on the fairings, it will eat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyinfool Posted March 5, 2018 Share #25 Posted March 5, 2018 The clutch is not difficult to do, even if you have to replace the entire clutch just adds 10 minutes to the job. Do you have a micrometer to measure the plates? You will need one or at least a good calipers. The friction discs are 3mm (0.1181 inch) thick when new, The wear limit is 2.8mm (0.1102 inch) thick. This measurement will tell you if you need to replace the clutch or not. Since you have been slipping for a long time, it is possible that you also have a worn out clutch. This is not a difficult job, with you having never done it before it should take around an hour, The next time you do one it should take 30 - 40 minuts, and if you have experienced help available, plan on at least 3 hours due to the gas bagging that will surely happen........ As far as replacing the half disc with a full disc, some people like it and some do not. With the full disc your friction zone gets very narrow, this makes slow speed even more difficult, with the half disc it is much wider. I put in the full disc and will be switching back to the half disc as soon as I find the parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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