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Long time no see, so an update


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The E-string from my fiddle was 0.22mm and much stiffer than the fuse wire and was perfect, except for the jet that wouldn't come out and was stuck in the housing. For that I took the plastic inner from a biro (rinsed the ink out and) cut a length 30-40mm long. Then I could thread the fiddle string through the middle and it was much easier to push it through the jet - or easier to know when I had it in place.

 

I kept alternating between pushing the wire through, soaking teh jet in degreasant and an ultrasound cleaner. If done all four and rebuilt the carbs and done a bench synch. Now I need to wait for a chance to go back over to my garage to reinstall them. Fingers crossed I've done it right this time.

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Maybe this will help. You'll need to go down a bit to see the bit sizes chart.

https://affordablegokarts.com/pages/how-to-drill-the-main-jets

 

It doesn't cover the sizes for the pilot jet, but it does reinforce the idea that the #37 .5 pilot jet has a hole 0.375mm. I had thought it was a measurement of flow, but it is obviously around that size as .25 goes through and 0.38/40 doesn't.

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Well that's good you can now see through the jest, right?

I wrote you up a thingy but for the most part it behind you now. So here's the whats next stuff..

 

...then the carb cleaner nozzle placed tight to the porting and you look for the spray pattern coming through the port to the barrel, then compressed air and one more shot of carb cleaner. Providing you see a clean spray pattern flowing through to the barrel, safe to bet that, that circuit is ready. You did go through this step?

 

Next if you are reusing the jets remember that they are old and have just held back an army of chemicals and proctology students, she’s going to be cranky at idle, the jets may flow different to one another. Fortunately we can deal with this through tuning and the proper way to do this is with rpm, period! It does not have to be perfect at 900 rpm the engine is not in the performance curve, this circuit once on, stays on and, helps transition to the midrange circuit - that is what is important! Heat is why we give it that extra 1/8 – ¼ in or out turn after reaching maximum tuned rpm through the pilot screws: below is how I do it you do what works best for you.

 

Set to 900 via large idle screw –cyl. 1 is dialed in then out with the Pilot screw moving past your starting point of say say 1 ¾ turns - follow the rpm as it increases slowly (this tells you you are turning the correct way) then listen for the rpm to start to decrease and stop – then apply more combustion heat by turning in ¼ turn – Reset the big idle screw to 900 rpms and move to #2 and repeat the process for all 4. The thread count will differ because the jugs may most likely be more or less efficient so don’t stress over this, they will change with some solid running down the road and you can then revisit for a final tune; try to keep the second tuning under half a turn, if you can’t then sync or jets are too mismatched or compression varies too much.

 

None of the above works easily if you don’t bench sync the throttle plates before installing the carbs, an easy way is to use a drill bit between the casting and the plate, the bit should slide easily past each do all 4 - then using the large idle screw set throttle to start position above the pilot ports, a quick check should show them equal. And this too is done

Syncing the carbs to the jugs can wait, this is a performance tune and the jugs will change after some pressure cycles from long rides..

 

Not sure where the clutch status is at the moment you mention it working fine? So I will assume you have replaced the required rubber bits! But what about the copper washers??????????????

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  • 2 years later...

November 2018 - That's a long time without an update, going back way before lockdown.

I said a few posts up that it seemed that if I didn't get things finished at once, there would be a long delay before I had time again and then other faults would start to emerge. Well I did get the carbs sorted and working nicely. I had to replace a rotted out downpipe and had a lot of problems with the collector box joints. The exhaust is mostly sealing now, though those olive joint seals on the back two downpipes are never 100% right. I thought I had fixed a slow leak on the rear wheel by polishing the inside rim and using seam sealant, but it has started to go down again, albeit slowly. That has not been my main problem with the Venture for the past year or two though.

For twenty years I did not have the slightest concern about the cooling system and didn't really give it a moment's thought. When it stated failing I wasn't prepared and didn't know what I was looking for. I don't really know what went first or what caused what else to go. I was basically chuffed that I had her running again, but found I had to top up the expansion bottle a couple of times. I thought I had probably left an air gap after re-installing the radiator. Whatever the original issue was, the system boiled dry on the way back from the seaside one evening (the first proper run for it) enough to overheat the clutch mechanism. I didn't know the cause because some of the electrical warning systems were getting a bit iffy through sitting so long. I hoped they would re-establish electrical connections, but they didn't get the chance. With a thermostat sensor not working properly I just hadn't realised how hot it was getting. This seemed to be due to the failure of an o-ring on one of the pipes to the thermostat housing, but it wouldn't come off because of one of the screws holding it in was seized. That took forever because of access and that screw just being so stubborn. Having the cooling system run out of fluid is not a good thing though and so next this fubarred the water seal in the water pump, so that had to come off. I had to chop and change a bit with the spares I could get (Ventures are not common in the UK), but after a false start missing off quite an important circlip I replaced the old plastic pump with a metal one from a V-Max. In the process the plastic angle pipe broke, but a spare had come with the pump cover, so that was okay.

Now finally you'd hope all would be hunky dory, but there was still a litany of little leaks that slowly got closed up until... it was still overheating. I'm not sure if it has been leaking until it doesn't have enough water and then boils, if the drain valve was in the wrong position, if it was escaping through the cap or what. My latest effort has been to jiggle with the drain valve, change the radiator cap and flush the radiator. Right now it is full of Holts radflush and has been out for a good ride. The needle went off the scale, but other than that things seem okay. The radiator did not lose water and the surge tank did not get sucked in after it cooled down. The best interpretation is that the new temperature sensor is no good and everything else is fine. It was probably a second hand V-Max one that I got - or maybe it reacts with the rad flush - who knows ?

When I've flushed it, put decent coolant in and run it over this weekend I'll know if she's properly on the road again or due to go back into the garage.

Oh yeah - it's good to be back. Sorry it's been a wile since I posted.

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15 minutes ago, Marcarl said:

Good to have you back, not very often we get to read English speak, but that might be better than Aussie speak written. Carry on, it's great!!

 

What about that Canadian vernacular eh!?

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38 minutes ago, Squidley said:

 

What about that Canadian vernacular eh!?

Sorry,had to look that word up to make sure sure it means the same here as in little Texas.

Vernacular: of, relating to, or being the normal spoken form of a language.

Thanks, I knew we had it right!!😜

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I'm putting this down here to help think it through and get all sorts of useful suggestions.

After taking it out last night, I got caught in traffic and watched the expansion bottle bubbling like mad - I ran it without the plastic cover on so I actually see it ! It does seem to hold pressure, though it bubbles just before it reaches the red on the gauge. I definitely had to top up the fluid before taking it out to give the rad flush a chance to clean it out (it was too late when I got back last night). It was boiling up again by the time I got back. I thought I was a bit hasty waiting for it to cool, but thankfully didn't get scalded when I pulled the drain plug. I filled it with water to flush it all out, drained it and filled with fresh coolant.

Taking a short spin round, avoiding traffic, it was again boiling within minutes, despite only bimbling along at about 2,500rpm and a light throttle. It's heating up quickly at tickover too. I've discounted the idea that it's only a duff temperature because boiling like a kettle tends to be a sign something is wrong. And anyway, any tea made from it is not that pleasant.

I don't think the issue is a leak or a crack anywhere because it builds up pressure and does not leak anywhere obvious, plus it draws more in from the surge tank.

I'm forced to think that the issue is either with how the water circulates or that the radiator is thoroughly corroded. I didn't think the rad flush would do much, but it is one of those steps you have to go through. I've just checked the position the radiator drain valve should be in, but I don't think that would have this effect - it either by-passes the thermostat or doesn't. I'm wondering if the thermostat has just stopped opening. I would just take it out, but I'm sure I've been warned that bypassing it (using the valve) can sometimes cause a lack of fluid to the back cylinder - which might be what's happening - and taking the whole thermostat out might just make that worse.

The radiator could be more furry than my throat the morning after a heavy night, but I find it hard to believe it could be THIS bad. As the only feasible alternative would be to refurbish or replace the radiator, I'm obviously keen to be sure before splashing out - I seem to be forever replacing bits without getting to drive it 😞

I also wonder if there is any way that I have mismatched parts using a metal V-Max pump vane - I thought that would bean upgrade over the plastic one that was cracking. I certainly see a little movement peeking in through the radiator cap hole when I rev it, but you can't see much.

Usually I can take a step-by-step approach o finding a problem, but there seems no way at present. Shorting of connecting a second radiator in-line I'm a bit stuck. 

The fan comes on fine.

Has anyone had similar experiences ?

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13 hours ago, greg_in_london said:

I'm putting this down here to help think it through and get all sorts of useful suggestions.

After taking it out last night, I got caught in traffic and watched the expansion bottle bubbling like mad - I ran it without the plastic cover on so I actually see it ! It does seem to hold pressure, though it bubbles just before it reaches the red on the gauge. I definitely had to top up the fluid before taking it out to give the rad flush a chance to clean it out (it was too late when I got back last night). It was boiling up again by the time I got back. I thought I was a bit hasty waiting for it to cool, but thankfully didn't get scalded when I pulled the drain plug. I filled it with water to flush it all out, drained it and filled with fresh coolant.

Taking a short spin round, avoiding traffic, it was again boiling within minutes, despite only bimbling along at about 2,500rpm and a light throttle. It's heating up quickly at tickover too. I've discounted the idea that it's only a duff temperature because boiling like a kettle tends to be a sign something is wrong. And anyway, any tea made from it is not that pleasant.

I don't think the issue is a leak or a crack anywhere because it builds up pressure and does not leak anywhere obvious, plus it draws more in from the surge tank.

I'm forced to think that the issue is either with how the water circulates or that the radiator is thoroughly corroded. I didn't think the rad flush would do much, but it is one of those steps you have to go through. I've just checked the position the radiator drain valve should be in, but I don't think that would have this effect - it either by-passes the thermostat or doesn't. I'm wondering if the thermostat has just stopped opening. I would just take it out, but I'm sure I've been warned that bypassing it (using the valve) can sometimes cause a lack of fluid to the back cylinder - which might be what's happening - and taking the whole thermostat out might just make that worse.

The radiator could be more furry than my throat the morning after a heavy night, but I find it hard to believe it could be THIS bad. As the only feasible alternative would be to refurbish or replace the radiator, I'm obviously keen to be sure before splashing out - I seem to be forever replacing bits without getting to drive it 😞

I also wonder if there is any way that I have mismatched parts using a metal V-Max pump vane - I thought that would bean upgrade over the plastic one that was cracking. I certainly see a little movement peeking in through the radiator cap hole when I rev it, but you can't see much.

Usually I can take a step-by-step approach o finding a problem, but there seems no way at present. Shorting of connecting a second radiator in-line I'm a bit stuck. 

The fan comes on fine.

Has anyone had similar experiences ?

 

9 hours ago, RDawson said:

I’d replace the thermostat as the first step as it’s cheap and is a good idea to swap out periodically anyway. 

Yep,, I am 100% with @RDawson @greg_in_london,,, that sure sounds suspiciously like a stuck thermostat to me... 

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Is there any bubbling at all when you first start it? You'll need to look for bubbles at the rad cap and make sure the rad is full. If you have bubbles then? it would be  a head gasket. Could happen from over heating.

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I agree with Marcarl in that I would replace and eliminate the thermostat. You can take it if you like and put it in a cold pot of water with a thermometer then heat the water and see at what temp it fully opens or if it even opens at all. This will give you a good idea if it is sticking. However whether it tests bad or good since you have it out I would still replace it. The testing would be more to see if the thermostat could be part of the problem.

If you have access to a cooling system pressure tester You could pressurize the cooling system leave it sit and see if the pressure drops off at an abnormal rate. If it does and you can find no external leaks you could have an internal leak such as a head gasket. Secondly with the cap removed warm up the bike and watch for an abnormal amount of bubbling. Here too you could connect the pressure tester (while the engine is hot ) but instead of pumping it up watch for an abnormal or quick pressure build up this two could indicate a head gasket or cracked head as well.( Let the engine cool down before removing the tester)

Another test I use which is not common to most people not in the mechanical trades, but very effective is to test for combustion gasses in the cooling system. This done with the engine warmed and the coolant level slightly lowered in the rad  then a special tool such as for example

https://www.lislecorp.com/specialty-tools/combustion-leak-detector

is used to draw air from the top of the slightly drained rad through a liquid which will turn colour, if any combustion gases are present in the cooling system. After warming the engine you would install the tool, then crack the throttle about ten times, after which you would draw the trapped air up through the liquid in the tool and watch for a colour change of the liquid in the glass vial. Many auto parts dealers carry this tool should you wish to give it a go.

I would also check the integrity of the fins on the rad. If they have come loose from the tubes than rad cooling efficiency is compromised. Lightly sliding you finger along the fins should detect whether they are secure to the tubes or come loose from the tubes.

A worn water pump can also be an issue. If the impeller is defective or if there is too much wear between the impeller and housing.

Edited by saddlebum
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3 hours ago, saddlebum said:

I agree with Marcarl in that I would replace and eliminate the thermostat. You can take it if you like and put it in a cold pot of water with a thermometer then heat the water and see at what temp it fully opens or if it even opens at all. This will give you a good idea if it is sticking. However whether it tests bad or good since you have it out I would still replace it. The testing would be more to see if the thermostat could be part of the problem.

If you have access to a cooling system pressure tester You could pressurize the cooling system leave it sit and see if the pressure drops off at an abnormal rate. If it does and you can find no external leaks you could have an internal leak such as a head gasket. Secondly with the cap removed warm up the bike and watch for an abnormal amount of bubbling. Here too you could connect the pressure tester (while the engine is hot ) but instead of pumping it up watch for an abnormal or quick pressure build up this two could indicate a head gasket or cracked head as well.( Let the engine cool down before removing the tester)

Another test I use which is not common to most people not in the mechanical trades, but very effective is to test for combustion gasses in the cooling system. This done with the engine warmed and the coolant level slightly lowered in the rad  then a special tool such as for example

https://www.lislecorp.com/specialty-tools/combustion-leak-detector

is used to draw air from the top of the slightly drained rad through a liquid which will turn colour, if any combustion gases are present in the cooling system. After warming the engine you would install the tool, then crack the throttle about ten times, after which you would draw the trapped air up through the liquid in the tool and watch for a colour change of the liquid in the glass vial. Many auto parts dealers carry this tool should you wish to give it a go.

I would also check the integrity of the fins on the rad. If they have come loose from the tubes than rad cooling efficiency is compromised. Lightly sliding you finger along the fins should detect whether they are secure to the tubes or come loose from the tubes.

A worn water pump can also be an issue. If the impeller is defective or if there is too much wear between the impeller and housing.

Thinkin that I'm getting credit foe something I never even thought of,,,, yet. I think Mr Dawson was the culprit to start that thought line. This doesn't mean that I'm not right in my head or on paper, tyme will bare that out I suppose.

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another thought,,, make sure the water pump impeller is not mounted backwards on the pump shaft.. It has been a long time since I rebuilt one but something in my memory makes me think/remember it is possible to put the impellar in backwards so the fins of the impeller are not moving coolant. 

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That tool to test for engine/combustion chamber leaks is a good test - something I'd been wishing for for another vehicle, but had never heard of. To begin with I bought the one most easily available, which will hopefully be here Wednesday: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284004648824?epid=15031188540&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item421fff0778:g:XPEAAOSwoUBfw8Wh&amdata=enc%3AAQAFAAACkBaobrjLl8XobRIiIML1V4Imu%2Fn%2BzU5L90Z278x5ickk7PdDazAlGltMLJlUhrWsD1SxGjmhb6XUcLGvpOvmVEiglH2cBj%2Fv5Uo4zcLTcNjA%2BrOhlgItsFUC%2BSqAvtbk6il7zNLrI8sgKSo0Jl98oXJ2718xp%2F9yt8YV2CDjXgOuaNozkJmawBA5B8Su78UqJ0BDN8NlXzyLdZgTc71S%2BWtJUxkqLetXxpVkYdzWGx8HnYXoFSws7rTR8qb6Giq4M9aFXcdwYQZubBHGjKHQ7UvKKC8WC1eSMttVMbah5RIFNgnYPYnT5Y2i%2FZV72sF1k7kEZjR6a0NsxIDPKp4nC%2B9e%2BRBgLtd1Feh61iZAR4XMQH%2FartT5JQ6hs%2BKck66e6fZQZL62Z54GkaG171bP4qGxq5N0tzrn%2BP5soXtYn%2FTafjgzEmO1ZkDsju4rts9%2BGnxIyep6d3gF2lKK0nQ%2FYlT9OpLBwTxYRcCDPMIxYj%2F0kFnPaf%2Bg19wdocsyculH99FrObUME0NhCDLEeCKVNEZWDS7JE5aBOLfVc%2Bq8YK0rbuXgiyBA%2FAXFEM7r0bdXx8YqOknc9lGUpHK8x5KvEaT7COA6HywD4d5GbQczqFaCx5AUpGs6pRgfqMK1NdaJGHXh8xDvs%2BuXyi57WWj%2BHlJRsS8P0v7OOUzhHdl5%2BiYKfeQNPy07kH%2FRnNmWPu1Emv7IgZqlW1PVCLlQi2IFt9jBFC5Lari0KjCRrjggxI71Dx98lOy6KwgYjrM9mvwQOiBuf3r7x%2BGGp5aWdmapXJB65IQodM8BmXwr4HlTubYdvz9BNDPd3H9e4mmmZQIc49xD7gjnxdi%2Baisy5%2F1VEuir4963pgWhY2mx8YNo0UfR|cksum%3A2840046488245c76fd4ec6de4c2a8f15a8c48f823510|ampid%3APL_CLK|clp%3A2334524

Yes - a thermostat would not break the bank, though I wonder if just taking it out would give an indication of whether it is the problem ??

I've been wondering about the pump too, but the parts I replaced were after the problem began emerging. Admittedly I'm not sure what wear would look like, but the 'new' one was metal and nothing was visible. My recollection is that the shaft was fitted to the impeller and so could not be fitted the wrong way round. I know that was a couple of years ago, but could I really be so wrong about that ? (As I type it, that sounds a very daft question - of course I could be that wrong !) Looking at the parts list it is sold as one item - and in fact needs a separate seal to be added for it two work. The V-Max did have a different vane design I think, though with all other bits looking the same I'd expect it to work.

Checking the vanes on the radiator will be an easy one to check tomorrow.

When I started it yesterday with the rad cap off there were a few bubbles, but I thought that was just the system scouring out bubbles - they were quite little. I'll be able to check when that kit comes, but it isn't slowly blowing water out, it is becoming hot and then boiling, turning the surge tank into a kettle !.

I took the bike out this evening for a steady run at about 50mph down the A2 (a dual carriageway approximately following the line of Watling Street - the road the Romans built from Dover to London and then on up to North Wales). Initially it seemed to be warming more slowly and I hoped it would stabilise, but after 6-7 miles I could see the level in the surge tank rise and start bubbling (I had the cover off so I could keep an eye on it). I pulled off and waited for it to stop bubbling and for the level to drop and topped it up again - and again. Then I came back a different way, stopping every mile to let it cool and add water if needed. I used 4-5 pints of fluid doing about 7 miles back.

So - tomorrow check the fins, Wednesday check for combustion leaks. Is there any sort of flow test for the pump - disconnect the return feed to the radiator and see if I can squirt the cat (if we had one) ? I feel there should be something simple to make such a dramatic effect. I'll look at access before deciding whether to try taking out the thermostat and trying without it - or else see what availability of the part is here and how long it might take to come (not forgetting the price...)

I'll keep everyone updated as things turn out, though it may not be for a few days now the weekend is over.

 

 

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Brother I have worked with a few versions of the combustion test tool including one the has two test chambers

https://www.amazon.com/UView-560000-Combustion-Leak-Tester/dp/B000NPDL76/ref=pd_lpo_469_img_1/134-8601521-0099460?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B000NPDL76&pd_rd_r=e3cf816d-714e-4c76-9585-1c67c499aa08&pd_rd_w=5BOpt&pd_rd_wg=9fsPj&pf_rd_p=a0d6e967-6561-454c-84f8-2ce2c92b79a6&pf_rd_r=8EE26WP6ZX3KJT7GW7QS&psc=1&refRID=8EE26WP6ZX3KJT7GW7QS

But the one you showed has to be the fanciest looking one.I ever saw. I swear who ever designed it borrowed the idea from they way some toilet bowels have the plumbing cast into the ceramic bowel LOL.

 

Edited by saddlebum
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Lol - I do a lot of home brewing and this is kit looks like the easiest work around ever. All it is is the bubble trap that pushes into the bung in the top of a demijohn. I have several, though they may supply a different sized bung. It was a brilliant idea all the same and the amount of liquid looked like it would do enough tests to persuade me if I want more. You can't use a vacuum pump on it of course, but I'm still quite looking forwards to giving it a whirl. I may need to use an extension pipe because of the space limitations between the fairing and radiator, but that will be no problem. I'll try and remember to take video as well as pictures.

Because it boils up so quickly when hot, I suspect the issue is a hot spot or failed circulation rather than combustion chamber pressurisation, but it will be good to eliminate this (and confirm it maybe on the missus's Reliant Rialto.

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Don't forget to lower the rad level when you do this test or instead of sucking in air it will be coolant you draw in.

With regards to the water pump Normally one check is to measure the clearance between the water pump fins of the impeller and the machined housing surface. If this clearance is too great it would indicate an improperly mounted impeller or worn housing surface. unfortunately I have yet to find a maximum clearance spec for the water pump on this bike. In cases like this and given that coolant is the same viscosity in all engines, I would often use the spec of a water pump that is similar in construction with a somewhat similar cooling system size as well going on the theory that regardless of the pump make, you require a certain  clearance in order to move the coolant efficiently and I would use that spec as somewhat of a guide line.

Edited by saddlebum
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19 hours ago, Marcarl said:

Thinkin that I'm getting credit foe something I never even thought of,,,, yet. I think Mr Dawson was the culprit to start that thought line. This doesn't mean that I'm not right in my head or on paper, tyme will bare that out I suppose.

So when you say tyme  did you mean time or thyme? Not sure if you are looking for an extension of time here or if your trying to spice yourself up a little :innocent-emoticon:

Edited by saddlebum
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I always lived by the theory that the thermostat was added into the system to stop the flow of coolant long enough for the coolant in the radiator to be cooled by air passing thru the rad veins before it re-enters the water jackets surrounding the combustion chamber/jugs.. If that is so than removing the thermostat and leaving it out is probably not your best option. Besides, if your going to take it apart to remove the thermostat you may as well replace it with a new one so you dont have to redo the job. 

I also wonder if you may be just experiencing a bad rad cap.. Another theory of mine is that the system is designed to operate under pressure as the pressure actually assists in boiling control as does using coolant instead of water. Maybe make sure your bikes cooling system has proper coolant mix as well as a good radiator cap that will not allow pressure release until above spec pressure in the system has been reached would be a good place to start.  

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5 hours ago, cowpuc said:

I always lived by the theory that the thermostat was added into the system to stop the flow of coolant long enough for the coolant in the radiator to be cooled by air passing thru the rad veins before it re-enters the water jackets surrounding the combustion chamber/jugs.. If that is so than removing the thermostat and leaving it out is probably not your best option.

The coolant flow rate past the surface does affect heat transfer.  

The BWR (Boiling Water Reactor) power plants have pumps that circulate the water inside the reactor to help heat transfer from the fuel rods to the cooling water.  Tweaking this flow rate also affects reactor power.  

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22 hours ago, Marcarl said:

Are you trying to indicate that I don't know what I wrote?

Check it out, it's MC friendly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=uE28NML0vG0

 

So what your saying is your hijacking  the thread into a discussion about how to straighten the curls out of ones hair :whistling: But since you and Rio share the same wiry hair and him being a terrier He can probably tell you it could be an exercise in futility :big-grin-emoticon:

Edited by saddlebum
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I've changed the rad cap for a new after market one. It certainly holds some pressure, though I have no way of measuring exactly how much. Once it starts bubbling though, it really bubbles, more like there is a hot spot that is vaporising the coolant. I'm using a pre-mixed G12+ coolant that I think is fairly high spec.

The vapour tester kit arrived just as we were going out to get my second jab and then going shopping, so now I just need to summon up the courage to do the test.

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