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So, I've heard alot about this infamous 2nd gear issue, I don't seem to have that on my bike, by struggle is getting into 3-5, the shifter won't budge past second, first,neutral 2nd all work, but it won't go further , i tried adjusting the shift , but after doing that I just ended up putting so much force into I bent the adjustment screw, any advice on what I should do or where to get a new screw?

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Hi J and :welcome1: to VR!!

That shift linkage should be fairly easy to either straighten or find at a bike yard.. It sounds to me like you may have a problem on the shifting mechanism under your clutch. There is a selector cage with pins in it that the shift shaft links to - basically it rotates the shift drum each time you press on the shift lever. Its not totally uncommon for one of the cages little pins to become dislocated which results in the inability to shift gears.. It is also possible that this same cage has just loosened up and needs retighting.. There is an upgrade to the device I am talking about, here is a link to another thread here showing those parts - it is in our "pay it forward" section and I am not sure if you, as a trial member, have access to it but we will try.. It also looks like those parts are still available - maybe ask about them and see if you officially joined our club if the member who owns those parts would work with you if you needed them - just thinking out loud here. http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?118396-Shift-Cam-Segment-upgrade-for-83-Venture

 

Hope this info helps in some small way and again :2RED:..

Puc

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Hey!thanks for answering so quickly! I actually just went out and checked the clutch and it's not working at all, I can start up in neutral, but can't get it into gear without it shutting off, do you think what you mentioned about the gear selector cage would be worth going after first, or should I try trouble shooting the clutch and seeing if it's just stuck or something.

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The most common cause of this kind of failure is the kickstand switch!! The switch develops a small amount of internal resistance making the system think the kickstand is still down!! A good switch will read less than 1 ohm, for all intents and purposes Zero ohms. If they read 2 or 3 ohms instead of zero replace the switch, with the kickstand up those few ohms makes the system think the kickstand is still down. A quick, albeit somewhat dangerous, test is to unplug the kickstand switch, and on the wiring harness (not the switch side) jumper all 3 connections. VERY IMPORTANT!!! Your bike can now start IN GEAR WITH THE CLUTCH ENGAGED!!! Make absolutely sure you are in neutral before starting!! Then see if it keeps running when you shift to 1st. If it does then your sidestand switch is bad, replace it!!

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Ok. so update is that bongoboby was totally right about the kickstand thing and the clutch not letting go, but I still can't get it past 2nd, and now it won't even go into 1st, any other ideas about what going on without me taking everything apart? any chance just giving it a bunch of solvent to clean things out right before any oil change would make any difference?

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So, I've heard alot about this infamous 2nd gear issue, I don't seem to have that on my bike, by struggle is getting into 3-5, the shifter won't budge past second, first,neutral 2nd all work, but it won't go further , i tried adjusting the shift , but after doing that I just ended up putting so much force into I bent the adjustment screw, any advice on what I should do or where to get a new screw?

 

I'm assuming (you know that that means...) that it's a 1st Gen. What year?

 

When you say "it won't budge past 2nd" do you mean the shift lever:

 

1. That it can be raised basically the normal travel but really does nothing... just moves up and down?

 

If this is the issue it sounds like one of the shift segment pins is at fault. (That's what Puc is talking about)

 

OR

2. That the shift lever really can't be moved up at all... it just will no longer budge?

 

If this is the case it sounds more like one of the shift forks or the shift drum.

 

With the clutch lever out, can you rock the bike back and forth and make it shift up through 3rd, etc.?

 

 

I'm traveling this weekend, but will try to keep up with your thread.

 

Heather

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Hey Heather! thanks for the reply, its a 83 royale, the issue is more like the second, it wont budge into any gear but 2nd and neutral. Pretty lame considering the whole reason I got the bike was to take my wife out to yellowstone this summer, can't afford to drop 1000$ into having it torn apart so any way I could get around this within the limits of what a reasonable do-it yourself-er could handle would be great. Right now I have a bent shifter that'll need to be replaced so the only way I can check the gears is with a set of vice grips. Any idea how I can replace that little double screw on there without dolling out 30$ for a whole new assemble, and waiting 2ish weeks? it seems like there should be someway of getting a double headed screw that dimension.

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So CowPuc gave you the solution back in the 2nd post. This is a common [roblem back in the day. You can fix it yourself in an afternoon. The hardest part is holding the center clutch hub while you remove the retaining nut. Follow the link Cowpuc gave you and you can get thru it.

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From everything i've heard that sounds the most plausible, I sent a message to wilz about the parts, and I have a pretty good aptitude for eye-balling parts and fixes, but the link cowpuc sent me doesn't actually mention the "how" of going in and replacing or fixing the cam-shaft segment, any chance that'd be in the service manual or that you'd have some advice or a link to help with that?

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Hey J, personally I would not spend any cash on it until I had some kind of an idea of exactly what I was dealing with. Here are some thoughts and questions to get us all on the same page.

1.Is this bike something you picked up in a non-running condition and are trying to put it together or was it your rideable/running bike that developed these issues?

2.When you mention you have no clutch and that if you start it in neutral, pull in the clutch lever and put the bike in gear it stalls - are you saying that the motor is stalling because it has no clutch disengagement (lurches forward and dies) or does it fall smoothly into gear with the clutch lever pulled in and just stops running like you turned the key off?

3. If you can get the bike up on the center stand do so. It will not hurt anything to spray some lubricant where the shift shaft passes thru the case and move the shaft some to make sure it is not dry to siezure - go ahead do that. With the bike up on the center stand, place your vice grips on the clamp where the linkage screw you mentioned screws into - dont put your vice grips directly onto the splines of the shiftshaft (dont want to damage them), reach back and rock/move the rear tire back and forth while gently pulling on the vice grips in the direction that the shifter would move it into first - you should feel it click into gear and the rear wheel will now have positive stops you will feel as you roll it back and forth. Continue rocking the rear wheel and move the vice grips into neutral, keep rocking and move into second, now try third and on up. If it refuses to go past a gear and into the next one take special note of how many degrees you are moving the vice grips before they stop in rotation. If it seems like they are traveling farther than they traveled when you shifted it into a gear that worked properly this would be a good indicator that the problem is with the shift segment pins, if the vice grips have about the same or a noticeably shorter degree of rotation then the earlier shift that worked - this would be an indicator of a bent shift fork or other possible tranny issue.

4. Depending on what you discover you may or may not want to proceed with a repair. If its the shift segment - not to bad of a job that someone with an average level of mechanical skill and a few metric tools could do.. If its shift forks you may want to reconsider - that would be a pull the motor, split the cases,, definitely a good sized job with above average tools and skills needed. I also highly suspect that you would be well above 1000 dollars in having a shop do such an undertaking - if you could even find a Yamaha shop willing to do the work..

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J - here is a link to some pics and an article about the shift segment that is possibly the issue. The last picture is one of the mechanism fully exposed after: draining oil, removal of brake lever/foot peg, clutch assembly cover (round engine case cover - right side if sitting on bike), 6 bolts to remove pressure plate from clutch basket, slip plates out, remove nut from inner hub (where you will need holder Pegasus was talking about), remove assembly and you will be looking at what picture shows here. http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?40713-Clunky-Shifting

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OK in summary, your shift forks got buggered up first, THEN your kickstand switch went bad making the bike stall every time you shifted out of neutral, and now you are back to problem 1, won't go into gear but at least the motor still runs. Is this right??

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actually I got it up on the centerstand and tried pushing the rear wheel back and for like suggested and now it'll go into gear,still takes a little bit more force than usual though, I guess I could get a new shifter linkage in there and probably ride it like that, but I'm super worried if I stress it or try riding it it's just going to happen again. Also, I noticed that even with the clutch all the way in and in neutral the rear wheel still spins a bit and whenever it does go into gear, especially first, there's a loud click and the bike moves a bit as it pops into gear, is that normal, I feel like it shouldn't be.

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Not to jack this thread but I have a somewhat similar problem faintly where my bike shifts easily to second but to shift from second to third I have to bang it. It up shifts easily from third to fourth and fourth to fifth. Down shifts are all easy.

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More info on why the tire still turns with clutch disengaged. We have what is known as a "wet" clutch. Unlike on a car where when you disengage the clutch there is just air between the clutch and pressure plate, there is always oil between the discs and the clutch. One of the properties of oil is called "stiction" which is related to viscocity, and it oils ability to stick to itself as well as to whatever surface it is attached to. Sooo, there is always a connection of sorts between the clutch parts, and without any resistance to rotation it will still spin together somewhat, and will transfer a small amount of torque to the rear wheel. If you had an extra hand you could apply the brake while holding the clutch in and the wheel would stop without the motor bogging down in the least, providing there is really nothing wrong with the slave cylinder...

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Hey J, personally I would not spend any cash on it until I had some kind of an idea of exactly what I was dealing with. Here are some thoughts and questions to get us all on the same page.

1.Is this bike something you picked up in a non-running condition and are trying to put it together or was it your rideable/running bike that developed these issues?

2.When you mention you have no clutch and that if you start it in neutral, pull in the clutch lever and put the bike in gear it stalls - are you saying that the motor is stalling because it has no clutch disengagement (lurches forward and dies) or does it fall smoothly into gear with the clutch lever pulled in and just stops running like you turned the key off?

3. If you can get the bike up on the center stand do so. It will not hurt anything to spray some lubricant where the shift shaft passes thru the case and move the shaft some to make sure it is not dry to siezure - go ahead do that. With the bike up on the center stand, place your vice grips on the clamp where the linkage screw you mentioned screws into - dont put your vice grips directly onto the splines of the shiftshaft (dont want to damage them), reach back and rock/move the rear tire back and forth while gently pulling on the vice grips in the direction that the shifter would move it into first - you should feel it click into gear and the rear wheel will now have positive stops you will feel as you roll it back and forth. Continue rocking the rear wheel and move the vice grips into neutral, keep rocking and move into second, now try third and on up. If it refuses to go past a gear and into the next one take special note of how many degrees you are moving the vice grips before they stop in rotation. If it seems like they are traveling farther than they traveled when you shifted it into a gear that worked properly this would be a good indicator that the problem is with the shift segment pins, if the vice grips have about the same or a noticeably shorter degree of rotation then the earlier shift that worked - this would be an indicator of a bent shift fork or other possible tranny issue.

4. Depending on what you discover you may or may not want to proceed with a repair. If its the shift segment - not to bad of a job that someone with an average level of mechanical skill and a few metric tools could do.. If its shift forks you may want to reconsider - that would be a pull the motor, split the cases,, definitely a good sized job with above average tools and skills needed. I also highly suspect that you would be well above 1000 dollars in having a shop do such an undertaking - if you could even find a Yamaha shop willing to do the work..

 

actually I got it up on the centerstand and tried pushing the rear wheel back and for like suggested and now it'll go into gear,still takes a little bit more force than usual though, I guess I could get a new shifter linkage in there and probably ride it like that, but I'm super worried if I stress it or try riding it it's just going to happen again. Also, I noticed that even with the clutch all the way in and in neutral the rear wheel still spins a bit and whenever it does go into gear, especially first, there's a loud click and the bike moves a bit as it pops into gear, is that normal, I feel like it shouldn't be.

 

1.Is this bike something you picked up in a non-running condition and are trying to put it together or was it your rideable/running bike that developed these issues????

2. I am now assuming that your stalling problem is a yes answer to ""are you saying that the motor is stalling because it has no clutch disengagement (lurches forward and dies)""?

3. I am now assuming that the tranny will go thru ALL the gears by rocking the back wheel and hand shifting it?

 

If all the above is so, I would recommend changing your oil out to a 20w50 Diesel or Motorcycle Oil (really doesnt matter what brand - SuperTech from Walmart will do fine IMHO) - do an oil filter too. I have found a lot of stickiness in shifting can be mitigated by a good oil base to begin with..

Now remove the cover on your clutches master cylinder - what color is the fluid? If its darkened at all or,,, if it hasn't been swapped in a year or so just swap it out. Before you do though, get the res as close to level as possible, gently pump the lever to the point that the tiny return hole in the bottom of the res is returning fluid - it takes very little movement on the lever to get a little flow - gentleness and smoothness is key. Watch carefully while you doing this and see if you notice tiny little air bubbles in the the fluid - if you do this is probably where the clutch disengagement issue is found.. Even the smallest amount of air in hydraulic fluid will cause issues - take the time and get the air out. It's not uncommon for this to take an hour or more of time to get all the air out - patience is a virtue!! After all the air is out and you have a good clutch feel, remove the little rubber cover down on the slave (its right above the shifter). Crack the bleed nipple on the slave open with an 8mm deepwell, finger tighten it but make sure you can open it with your finger pinch, slip the end of a 6' section of clear gas line ( the CHEAP stuff) over the nipple (if memory serves - 1/4" ID line is perfect), drap the line upwardly and pinch it between the lid of the trunk and the base of the trunk to hold it upright. Get as much of the old fluid out of the res as possible but leave enough to cover the orvices in the bottom, refill the res being careful not to create bubbles in the fluid when you dump new in (if you have little bubbles on the refill DONT move the lever till they have worked out of the fluid, you should be able to pinch the hose now and open the nipple with the hose staying attached to it - squeeze the lever to bottom and hold it - close the nipple - release the lever - open the nipple - squeeze the lever and keep doing this (keep the hose attached and leading upwardly so fluid is remaining against the nipple end and no air can back bleed into the slave, also keeping the res filled with fresh fluid) until the clear hose is filling with clear fluid - also watch the fluid in the hose for air bubbles.

When you get clear fluid in the hose tighten the nipple, fill the res just above the glass window, reset the rubber seal on the res lid - put it together.. Now take it out and ride it, even if I had to shift with the vice grips for a short time - I would put a hundred miles on it or so and see if you dont recoginze a significant change in stickiness on the shifting and clutch activation.. If what I am thinking solves the issue - you may just have yourself with a scoot with THOUSANDS of great miles stored up for you!!

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Not to jack this thread but I have a somewhat similar problem faintly where my bike shifts easily to second but to shift from second to third I have to bang it. It up shifts easily from third to fourth and fourth to fifth. Down shifts are all easy.

 

Gary,, you may find some benefit in browsing thru post 19 in this thread.. Just a thought..

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Hey! Thanks for all the help guys! I'll try what cowpuc said first with the oil and clutch fluid before opening anything up , it was running when I bought it and had just had an oil change, but it is a pretty old bike so it can't hurt. I've used Seafoam before on bikes , example being an old seca 750 i had with a wet clutch, put it right in the crankcase a bit before an oil change and it cleared things up, any chance that would just end up hurting the clutch? I figure a solvent might help getting any gunk inside their off, but I think you guys would probably know better than I do

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Gary,, you may find some benefit in browsing thru post 19 in this thread.. Just a thought..

 

That's a good idea as I've heard that good oil makes for smooth shifting & I'm due for an oil change. In fact, Friday night before ride Saturday I ran Out of time to chg oil and just added a quart.. so it was low. Perhaps i didnt notice it getting worse as the oil got old and low but I think she always needed a good bang going 2-3. However, I could always shift without the clutch if I'm not on it hard and find the sweetspot. & I bled my clutch when i bought it to get disengagement and haven't cleared the return but I'd think a clogged return would keep the clutch slipping. My clutch seems to a activate fine as she will shift gears running but at a standstill and not creep in gear..

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