2014 Ural upgrades (EFI!)

[csdexter]

Maybe I was too hasty, so I'd like to put these two here just for the record:

 

1. Ural staff, as you mention, has been awesome so far and that's something I appreciate both as a single event AND when thinking about buying a bike from them (i.e. long term). Having who to ask about stuff and knowing they will answer and help you fix your issue is a rare situation nowadays and I'll appreciate and cherish that.
   
2. Regarding type-approval -style laws and regulations, I have no intention of MODIFYING anything in the way the EFI operates, be that the curves or the parameters thereof. But I DO want read-only access to ALL the status and monitoring data there is. I've put extra gauges on every bike I had and, should I get an Ural, I sure would like to "listen" to the EFI's log and display that nicely in the cockpit :-)
   

That's all. Will have a look on the forum you mentioned (thanks for the pointer).

[Guest tx2sturgis]

...I DO want read-only access to ALL the status and monitoring data there is.

 

 

I can see that when its comes to data like intake temp and engine temp...engine RPM and possibly even MPG...they do make such digital gauges but the URAL EFI is new so I wouldnt expect that type of accessory right away.

 

Lots of the owners add a tach and CHT (cylinder head temp)...and now and then you see things like a deep oil sump and high pressure oil pump, but the Ural boxer motor is pretty simple, and pretty much takes care of itself.

 

Of course with anything man-made, things can happen. So I see your point.

 

Well....I think you would really enjoy the bike...if you get one.

 

BTW...most of the members on the URAL forum are in the USA, but we have a lot of members in Europe, Australia, and even a few in Russia. There are other forums that are more centralized in that part of the world, but some are in languages that I cant read!

 

If you join, be sure to read the articles that interest you, and post an intro over there....if you are so inclined.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[csdexter]

I can see that when its comes to data like intake temp and engine temp...engine RPM and possibly even MPG...they do make such digital gauges but the URAL EFI is new so I wouldnt expect that type of accessory right away.

 

Which is exactly why I want access to the port and data :-) I have the knowledge and the resources to build whatever kind of gauge or status monitor I want, I do not want to be the slave of Dakota Digital or others in the same industry. Knowing how to do something and being blocked by somebody keeping documentation secret has always been a turn-down for me.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Which is exactly why I want access to the port and data :-) I have the knowledge and the resources to build whatever kind of gauge or status monitor I want, I do not want to be the slave of Dakota Digital or others in the same industry. Knowing how to do something and being blocked by somebody keeping documentation secret has always been a turn-down for me.

 

 

 

I have posted a question over on the Ural board, asking if the new EFI computer is made by Ducati Energia like the CDI unit on the carbed bikes.

 

If it is made by a prominant vendor, (like Ducati) then surely someone will be able to provide the information to third parties for just such a device.

 

Or so it seems to me.

 

IF it turns out that Ducati is providing the EFI unit, here is a peek at what it might look like on a Ural:

 

http://ducatienergiafiles.demoshots.it/prodottipdf/efi.pdf

[csdexter]

Judging by the electrical wiring diagram on the last page of the 2014 owner's manual (yes, that ****ty 100dpi JPEG is what they call a diagram; even a secondary school student would've known you need a vector format for a publication -- but I digress), the ECU design doesn't match what's shown in the Ducati Energia presentation you linked.

 

Still, it's better than no info, so here we go:

 

• it's a monolithic ECU design (i.e. not EFI+CDI), in which the box controls all aspects of engine operation
  
• the two ECUs are, indeed, connected to the same data bus but I am willing to bet half my February pay check they do not operate "together" (i.e. in synergy, like a computer cluster would) :-) The engine design is so symmetric and the cylinder heads are so far apart (from a thermal perspective), that actually having 2x single-cylinder ECUs running the engine simultaneously not knowing of each other's existence actually makes perfect sense from an R&D perspective
  
• the two ECUs appear identical (despite being called "EJT32L" and "EJT32R")
  
• they share the crankshaft position sensor (but bear in mind that the engine is symmetric and has traditionally operated with a wasted spark anyway, so just feeding the same information into both ECUs once again makes sense)
  
• they use heated oxygen sensors (lambda probes) powered by the ECUs themselves, from the same voltage rail as the injector (and whether this is/was a good design choice or not, only time will tell)
  
• the ignition coils appear to be small (i.e. same as for a CDI system). If previous Ural models have used CDI (as opposed to TCI), this makes sense from a logistics point of view (i.e. reuse already available parts)
  
• only the left ECU is driving the fuel pump and corresponding pins on the right one are left unconnected. Once again, only time will tell if this was a good design choice (a cabled-OR, also known as an open-collector output, would've been almost free to implement but it would have greatly improved the redundancy and robustness of the system)
  
• the data bus is a twisted pair (connects the two ECUs and is present on the diagnostic connector), so it could be either CAN or ISO9141-2/14230-4. Since it would just be too nice to be CAN (you can't sell $200 "adaptors" for a protocol everybody speaks, can you now?), it's probably ISO9141-2 with a mostly passive L line
  
• once again, only the left ECU controls the MIL light and is also connected to appears to be a crude speed output from the speedometer (or it could, indeed, be the other way around: it could be the ECU outputting a tacho signal for a to-be-provided rpm gauge)
  
• the other two circuits present at the diagnostic connector are chassis ground and what appears to be switched +12V
  

 

 

Finally, the manual contains:

 

• a diagram for the evaporative emissions control tubing (for California) which includes a "solenoid-actuated valve" that is nowhere to be found on the electrical schematic :-)
  
• no mention of a roll-over sensor (which tells the ECU to shut everything down immediately -- mostly used to prevent the high pressure fuel pump from emptying the whole tank onto the accident scene ;-) )
  
• a nice table of blink-codes (don't get me started) over the MIL light that the ECUs would use to tell you where the problem is. In that list, they:
  
  • candidly leak the name of the analog front-end used in the ECUs: Freescale's MC33814 :-D
    
  • just as candidly, mention error codes for the "Immobilizer light" (which doesn't appear to feature on an Ural)
    
  • talk about MAT/MAP/BAP sensor error codes which once again doesn't show on the schematic. Maybe it's integral to the throttle body assembly and so they let it (them) slide from the schematic (no, I will take no excuses!)
    

   

Now, if we head over to Freescale and pull the datasheet for the MC33814, we get some interesting info, such as the fact that it indeed contains an ISO9141-2 K-line driver for the MCU behind it to talk to an external diagnostic device.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

What did he say?

 

Dang...its a 70 year old design with some electronic type stuff added on....I'm sure there will be compromises. The engine wasnt designed to use EFI and yet they made it happen. More than we can say, so far, for the Royal Stars!

 

(wish list for some!)

 

The CDI unit on my Ural is Ducati, and the handlebar controls are Domino, made in Italy, the Sachs suspension, and Brembo front disk and caliper is from Italy.

 

It makes some sense to me that the EFI might be from Ducati, but I dont know that directly. I'm sure the new owners will post some info.

 

Hey you really should post that knowledge of these systems over on the Ural forum...those guys will probably be wanting to know some of this.

 

On mine, I just shimmed the carb needles and changed the jets!

 

Edited February 2, 2014 by tx2sturgis

[Guest tx2sturgis]

One of the first 2014 EFI Urals in the USA is given the once-over here on video by its owner:

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3aR7VBrzeg#t=162]2014 Ural - YouTube[/ame]

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Update:

 

The new Ural EFI is apparently being made by ElectroJet In Michigan:

 

http://www.electrojet.org/

 

This is a message from Ilya, the head honcho at Ural:

 

"The fuel pump and the coils are made by Delphi. The injector itself is Bosh.

 

Ilya"

Edited February 10, 2014 by tx2sturgis
updates

[Guest tx2sturgis]

New video that briefly explains the Ural EFI system:

 

[csdexter]

Just watched that on the other forum, nice touch :-) Good thing they thought about allowing both ECUs to drive the fuel pump so that the system is truly redundant.

 

Also confirms my previous bet: the ECUs only talk to each other for idle speed targets and for driving the MIL -- everything else is treated as if it were a single-cylinder engine (from each ECU's perspective).

 

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Cycle World rides the new EFI Ural and likes it.

 

Now...just a side note for anyone keeping track...the 2014 Urals are having some issues with the new EFI programming. I'm sure they will figure it out.

 

EFI is not always plug and play when it's a retrofit. Time will tell.

http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/04/21/motorcycles-with-character-2014-ural-patrol-sidecar-motorcycle/?src=SOC&dom=fb

 

http://www.cycleworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Ural-Patrol-static-1-590x393.jpg

 

http://www.imz-ural.com/wp-content/gallery/2014-gearup/gearup-3.jpg

Edited April 22, 2014 by tx2sturgis

[csdexter]

A few things about the "EFI stumble" story:

1) How come in those 10000km (or was it miles?) of testing nobody noticed anything and yet a couple months after the launch people started complaining about off-idle stumble? Smells like a last-minute, improperly qualified update to me ...

2) EFI is never "plug and play", it requires research -- regardless of whether it's a retrofit or not. Research requires brains or (time and money). Ural (the company) doesn't have either.

3) The ECUs chosen, while small, cheap and, let's not forget, USA-made (a very important selling point -- at least to them), do represent a compromise. Ural's engine is at the higher limit (displacement-wise) of what ElectroJet is targeting and the exotic one-ECU-per-cylinder configuration is also something they've never done before. Add in the low-budget combined pressure sensor and you get a very unstable cocktail, perfectly matched with the complaints we heard.

 

I said something above that warrants further explanation: if Ural (the company) had brains or money, they would've transformed the Ural (sidecar motorcycle) into the wonderful product that it could be; anytime within the last 10 years or so. "The wonderful product" means a sidecar motorcycle that looks as vintage and as Russian as it gets but doesn't crap out on you in the middle of nowhere, at night. It would have then attracted endless stories of "let me tell you where I've been with my Ural last weekend" instead of the current "let me tell you what I've most recently fixed (or patched up) on my Ural".

 

In my humble opinion, Ural (the company) is wasting a valuable chance and are seemingly oblivious to sitting on a gold mine -- by keeping the quality low and insisting it's "part of the brand concept". Pity.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

"The wonderful product" means a sidecar motorcycle that looks as vintage and as Russian as it gets but doesn't crap out on you in the middle of nowhere, at night. It would have then attracted endless stories of "let me tell you where I've been with my Ural last weekend" instead of the current "let me tell you what I've most recently fixed (or patched up) on my Ural".

 

Hmmm.

 

No one, not even me, claims they are perfect machines, and the EFI retrofit is having some birthing pains, to be sure. But they are still rideable and enjoyed by their owners.

 

And vary rarely do people post details about every sucessful ride, only the rides that involve problems get the most attention....just like here.

 

I have about 8000 kms on mine and other than a couple of minor issues when it was new, it is stone reliable. Always starts, always runs, always stops, and always delights me.

 

I have had 'minor' issues with every vehicle I have ever owned....so this is not a flaw of only Urals.

 

Truth be told, I did not buy this Ural to tour on. I didn't buy it to traverse continents or see what I can break in the Moab expedition that some Ural owners are drawn to.

 

I bought it to putter around the local area, (75 mile radius) go to the grocery store or hardware store, and play in the 2 or 3 decent snowstorms we get every year. It does all this with style and reliablity. Mine is the carb version and I wish you could hear how good it sounds with the new mufflers, and feel how good it runs with the carb tuning I have done.

 

It's not a high speed touring bike....its not trying to be.

 

But its a whole lot of fun and people come up and ask about it often.

 

So yeah, its got a permanent place in my garage....well...unless I see the EFI models in the future get really good...then I might trade it in...but for now, its a keeper.

 

 

 

[TheKid]

A friend of mine has an URAL. She had to replace the battery. She said it took two people to get it out. "we had to take the seat off and go through the side and push it and pull it up and so on I need help getting the battery back in I can't do it ... it took two people"

 

Is there a easier way to put a battery in? She is located in Farwell, Michigan if anyone is near by and would like to help. I can give you her name and number.

 

thanks for the advice.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

A friend of mine has an URAL. She had to replace the battery. She said it took two people to get it out. "we had to take the seat off and go through the side and push it and pull it up and so on I need help getting the battery back in I can't do it ... it took two people"

 

Is there a easier way to put a battery in? She is located in Farwell, Michigan if anyone is near by and would like to help. I can give you her name and number.

 

thanks for the advice.

 

Because the Ural is built for off-roading, that big heavy battery is locked in there pretty tight, but it will come out easily if you know the trick.

 

Remove seat, then remove the plate under the seat. Unhook and unbolt battery, lift it out.

 

[cowpuc]

She's a little over 2 hours away,, hmmmmm,, wish it was closer cause I would LOVE to fix it just to tinker with it and test drive one a little (that would be my fee for battery replacement )...

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Maybe I should say, that she should remove the seat, then remove that plate under the seat, then lower the battery into place, then bolt it in with the existing clamp, then hook up the cables..positive first.

 

Some owners go in from the side, but its a chore doing it that way. First trick there is to push the starter lever down and secure it with a wire hook or block of wood wedged in.

 

Puc...I know you could have figured it out right away. That steel plate appears to be part of the frame but just remove 4 (iIRC) bolts and it lifts right off. One bolt secures the CDI unit on some later models, that might need to be removed to lift the plate completely up.

 

Then you're looking right at the top of the battery.

 

The extra wire that you see on mine is to power the high-wattage headlight thru a relay, hers wont have that.

Edited May 18, 2014 by tx2sturgis