bongobobny Posted April 19, 2012 Share #1 Posted April 19, 2012 Once I finally get done upgrading my rear brakes on my Hannigan, I will be looking at possible improvements with my front brakes, so I thought I'd check to see if anybody has ever gone to a better caliper, better rotors, etc. I do have SS lines to install but I'm looking for more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingy Posted April 19, 2012 Share #2 Posted April 19, 2012 Once I finally get done upgrading my rear brakes on my Hannigan, I will be looking at possible improvements with my front brakes, so I thought I'd check to see if anybody has ever gone to a better caliper, better rotors, etc. I do have SS lines to install but I'm looking for more... What diameter are the front rotors? I might part with my YZF 750 six pot calipers, for what I paid for them. These should be a direct bolt on in place of 282mm rotors. 100mm caliper bolt spacing. Do not have pads. Brackets are going to be machined in next few days, so I can put the R1 radial 6 pots on. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skydoc_17 Posted April 19, 2012 Share #3 Posted April 19, 2012 Hey Bob, Dingy (Gary) is working on an adapter bracket that would allow you to install the 6 piston late model R1 Calipers on the front of your Second Gen. You might ask him how that is coming. Barregner makes a 6 piston caliper that is a direct bolt on, but at $1200 a set, you may want to wait on Gary. If you can find an older set of R1 "Gold Dot" Front Calipers with the Aluminum Pistons in them, that would be a great addition to your trike. They would be direct bolt on as well. No matter what you put up front, you need to ditch that "tinker toy" front brake splitter you currently have on your bike. Earl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongobobny Posted April 19, 2012 Author Share #4 Posted April 19, 2012 Hey Earl, we were just talking about you and front brake upgrade in chat! I'll give you a call this weekend... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegscraper Posted April 19, 2012 Share #5 Posted April 19, 2012 I see two bikes under your name. Which one are you talking about? I highly recommend the four piston R1 calipers for an RSV. Just make sure to use them with a 14mm master cylinder from an '04 or later Roadstar. Don't use them with your stock m/c as it's the wrong size. These are an incredible improvement. The six piston R1 calipers are certainly at least that good if not even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeeze Posted April 19, 2012 Share #6 Posted April 19, 2012 Lynn, I'd think Bob talks about his '09 Hannigan Trike. Using updated Calipers with their respective Master Cylinder and (at least semi-) floating 298 mm Rotors is the best Improvement without going too wild in Parts and Funds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted April 19, 2012 Share #7 Posted April 19, 2012 I just had a friend upgrade his front brakes to R1 calipers on his '99RSV, and he couldn't stop raving about the difference. He said it was an OMG moment. I'll be doing the same thing to mine later this spring. It's a plug and play job. Pick up a clean set of R1 or R6 calipers off Ebay for $60 bucks with shipping, and that's all it's gonna cost.... The best bang for the buck mod you can do on an RSV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegscraper Posted April 19, 2012 Share #8 Posted April 19, 2012 Don't forget the part about also using the '04 and later Roadstar 14mm master cylinder. Very important. You'll only get a fraction of the potential improvement if you don't. Calipers from an '04 and later Roadstar can also be used and will look better too, as well as any of the later Stratoliners and Roadliners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted April 19, 2012 Share #9 Posted April 19, 2012 Don't forget the part about also using the '04 and later Roadstar 14mm master cylinder. Very important. You'll only get a fraction of the potential improvement if you don't. Calipers from an '04 and later Roadstar can also be used and will look better too, as well as any of the later Stratoliners and Roadliners. Lynn. What's the difference between 5/8" and 14mm masters. Is smaller better?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Myers Posted April 19, 2012 Share #10 Posted April 19, 2012 A smaller master would give more psi at the caliper with same squeeze(presuming lever to plunger ratio was the same), however I could not fathom it to be more than 100psi going from a .625 diameter down to a .551 diameter, and would require a minute amout of extra throw of the lever to apply the same amount of fluid to caliper. If pegscraper says it is a drastic improvement then that would be all the research I need! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted April 19, 2012 Share #11 Posted April 19, 2012 ummmmmm:scratchchin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twigg Posted April 19, 2012 Share #12 Posted April 19, 2012 Lynn. What's the difference between 5/8" and 14mm masters. Is smaller better?? Every one else I have heard talk about this says that the standard master cylinder workd just fine. It's a pretty small difference anyway. Without doing some complicated math I suspect you would be hard put to tell the difference. Where it really becomes an issue is if you are changing to a set of calipers that require a BIGGER master ... If you don't change in that scenario you may run out of lever travel before the brakes are fully applied. All you can do then is try it and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegscraper Posted April 19, 2012 Share #13 Posted April 19, 2012 It's not a small difference. It's a huge difference. The smaller bore gives more mechanical advantage on the calipers. It's the size that Y themselves uses with the R1 style caliper, no matter what bike it's on. Notice that these calipers have trickled down from the sport bikes to the cruiser models, all except the RSV. And Y always uses the 14mm m/c with them. When I first swapped the R1 calipers, I didn't do the m/c either. I went for a ride and I wondered what in the world was so great about these brakes. There was almost no difference. Squeeze and I wrote back and forth on it, and his answer boiled down to do the master cylinder. So I did, wondering how much difference could this really make. I went for a ride, and that's when I had my OMG moment. These brakes are fantastic. The difference is night and day. No math involved in feeling it. The math isn't complicated either. It's a simple ratio between the area of the m/c bore and the area of the four bores in the caliper. The 14mm m/c is what was designed to be used with the R1 calipers. Yes, the stock 5/8" m/c will work. Some people have done it and will argue their point up one side and down the other. But it remains a provable and proven fact, both empirically and mathematically, that you'll only get a fraction of the potential improvement with it. Do it right and install the proper size m/c. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twigg Posted April 20, 2012 Share #14 Posted April 20, 2012 It's not a small difference. It's a huge difference. The smaller bore gives more mechanical advantage on the calipers. It's the size that Y themselves uses with the R1 style caliper, no matter what bike it's on. Notice that these calipers have trickled down from the sport bikes to the cruiser models, all except the RSV. And Y always uses the 14mm m/c with them. When I first swapped the R1 calipers, I didn't do the m/c either. I went for a ride and I wondered what in the world was so great about these brakes. There was almost no difference. Squeeze and I wrote back and forth on it, and his answer boiled down to do the master cylinder. So I did, wondering how much difference could this really make. I went for a ride, and that's when I had my OMG moment. These brakes are fantastic. The difference is night and day. No math involved in feeling it. The math isn't complicated either. It's a simple ratio between the area of the m/c bore and the area of the four bores in the caliper. The 14mm m/c is what was designed to be used with the R1 calipers. Yes, the stock 5/8" m/c will work. Some people have done it and will argue their point up one side and down the other. But it remains a provable and proven fact, both empirically and mathematically, that you'll only get a fraction of the potential improvement with it. Do it right and install the proper size m/c. If you have tried it both ways, and are saying that it is infinitely preferable to change the MC for the 14mm, and it seems you are, then that is good enough for me. When I do mine, I will use the R1 MC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 20, 2012 Share #15 Posted April 20, 2012 When I first reported on the R1 upgrade I claimed that the difference wasnt earth shattering over stock but was an improvement overall. So, just what 14mm MC will fit the RSV properly? Will it match up looks wise with the clutch master? A mention was made of one from a Roadstar. Are R*'s 14mm? And will it all work with the Vmax splitter? Thanks..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yooper Posted April 20, 2012 Share #16 Posted April 20, 2012 EARL, yOU SEEN MY PACKAGE YET??? yOOP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bummer Posted April 20, 2012 Share #17 Posted April 20, 2012 rotflol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongobobny Posted April 20, 2012 Author Share #18 Posted April 20, 2012 OK great info guys! I am giving serious thought to the 6 pots Gary is offering. Not sure what effect the ms will have with those. Yes I agree that the smaller ms sounds a little odd but it's a matter of pressure, not volume that comes into play. Thanks for all the tips, keep them coming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSTDdog Posted April 21, 2012 Share #19 Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) When I first reported on the R1 upgrade I claimed that the difference wasnt earth shattering over stock but was an improvement overall. So, just what 14mm MC will fit the RSV properly? Will it match up looks wise with the clutch master? A mention was made of one from a Roadstar. Are R*'s 14mm? And will it all work with the Vmax splitter? Thanks..... The Road star M/C looks the same as an RSV master cylinder (Tall aluminum reservoir) but has a 14mm bore. Another plus would be if you find a Road Star S master cylinder since those are CHROME! Of course then you need a Chrome clutch master too match. Yes it will work with the Vmax splitter since the banjo bolt connections for the brake lines are all the same. When I do mine, I will use the R1 MC While that will work, from an appearance stand point it may not look that good since its a Sportbike master cylinder. Installed angle to the handlebar may be off as well. The Roadstar master cylinder has a 14mm bore and looks like it belongs there. Something to think about. On edit:For anyone interested, here is another thread discussing the master cylinder differences. I got some of the math wrong and Dingy corrected it and added a nice picture that helps make sense of it. http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=51555&highlight=brake+upgrade&page=2 RSTDdog Edited April 21, 2012 by RSTDdog Added link on 14mm V 5/8 MC discussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twigg Posted April 21, 2012 Share #20 Posted April 21, 2012 The Road star M/C looks the same as an RSV master cylinder (Tall aluminum reservoir) but has a 14mm bore. Another plus would be if you find a Road Star S master cylinder since those are CHROME! Of course then you need a Chrome clutch master too match. Yes it will work with the Vmax splitter since the banjo bolt connections for the brake lines are all the same. While that will work, from an appearance stand point it may not look that good since its a Sportbike master cylinder. Installed angle to the handlebar may be off as well. The Roadstar master cylinder has a 14mm bore and looks like it belongs there. Something to think about. On edit:For anyone interested, here is another thread discussing the master cylinder differences. I got some of the math wrong and Dingy corrected it and added a nice picture that helps make sense of it. http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=51555&highlight=brake+upgrade&page=2 RSTDdog Yeah ... I meant a 14mm MC, not necessarily the R1 version Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 21, 2012 Share #21 Posted April 21, 2012 The Road star M/C looks the same as an RSV master cylinder (Tall aluminum reservoir) but has a 14mm bore. Another plus would be if you find a Road Star S master cylinder since those are CHROME! Of course then you need a Chrome clutch master too match. Yes it will work with the Vmax splitter since the banjo bolt connections for the brake lines are all the same. I looked around on Ebay and most of the R* masters were from 2002-2005. I was under the impression that the 2004 on had the 14mm bore. Pegscraper, chime in here will ya?? LOL. So I figure maybe a 2006 on will be the right one. I had taken both my brake and clutch M/C's apart this past winter and polished both housings. So a stock m/c would be fine, just got to polish the housing again, unless I can score a brake/clutch combo off an S model for a fair price. Not much pickings on ebay right now anyway. Thanks.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGunn Posted April 30, 2012 Share #22 Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) What diameter are the front rotors? I might part with my YZF 750 six pot calipers, for what I paid for them. These should be a direct bolt on in place of 282mm rotors. 100mm caliper bolt spacing. Do not have pads. Brackets are going to be machined in next few days, so I can put the R1 radial 6 pots on. Gary Gary did you get the adapter mounts done yet? I have been looking for someone who has had or has the machine shop to do this in. I bought a set of R1 2009 6 pots already but getting someone to machine to adapter for a fair price is crazy. If you have it done and would be willing to make me a set what would a set cost? Edited April 30, 2012 by PGunn correction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Iz Posted April 30, 2012 Share #23 Posted April 30, 2012 On the 14mm master, is there a version out there that isn't the "tall" version, but still in the same style silver unit? If so, what bike does it come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingy Posted April 30, 2012 Share #24 Posted April 30, 2012 Gary did you get the adapter mounts done yet? I have been looking for someone who has had or has the machine shop to do this in. I bought a set of R1 2009 6 pots already but getting someone to machine to adapter for a fair price is crazy. If you have it done and would be willing to make me a set what would a set cost? I would need some measurements from an RSV to verify they will fit. The set that was made for my bike probably will not fit any other bike. I have a VMax front rim on which is narrower than the standard rim. This then moves the rotors inboard towards center line, causing calipers to need to be moved inward. I would also like to have some closeup pictures of rotors/caliper mounts. What diameter/thickness are stock rotors. Will a set of 2000 era R1 4 pot calipers mount on an RSV, this will help with design parameters if they will fit. RSV's don't have a front wheel speedometer cable correct? I powder coated mine red to match some other accents on bike. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGunn Posted May 1, 2012 Share #25 Posted May 1, 2012 Gary I can get the measurments your looking for I'll start tonight and it may take a day or two. Gary one other question are you also posting on the VMAX site? I think we have had some contact that way also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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