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Any hot water heater experts here?


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Looks like it is getting close to time to replace the hot water heater. It is still heating just fine but apparently is full of mineral deposits, rust, etc. My wife notice last weekend that the hot water was muddy looking. I've lost count of how many times I've drained and flushed and drained and flushed and drained and flushed. It take forever even though I replace the drain valve with a straight through ball valve. Even with the ball valve installed and the vent opened, it takes a long time to flush.

 

I've actually got it running fairly clear now but still no perfect and I think I will need to replace it soon. It is about 17 years old.

 

This is an 80 gallon AO Smith electric heater. I've been looking around and have somewhat narrowed it down to a Whirlpool 80 gallon and a GE 80 gallon. The Whirlpool has dual 4500 watt elements and a 12 year warranty. Top and bottom elements are stainless steel. The GE has dual 5500 watt elements but only the top one is stainless steel for some reason. They both have 12 year warranties. All that I have looked at have 4500 watt elements except for the GE. The Whirlpool is $619.00 and the GE is $729.00. I'm leaning towards the Whirlpool even though the GE has higher wattage elements. I've never had a problem with running out of hot water so really don't know that the bigger elements are a big deal. They both have high energy factors, about 92 I think.

 

A tankless heater is not an option for me. There just aren't any electric tankless heaters that are equivalent to an 80 gallon tank. The closest I have found was rated about the same as a 40 gallon tank.

 

So, I KNOW we have people here who are experts in just about anything that we have questions about. What say you?

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Guest tx2sturgis

Since only one element is active at any one time, I would assume the tank with the 5500 w element has a slightly higher firsthour rating. How many people live in the home? The more people who live there, the higher the firsthour rating should be. If only 2 people live there, the unit with a smaller firsthour rating should be fine. If there are 3-6 people living there then it might be better to go with a higher firsthour rating.

 

 

BTW: The sediment and crud that builds up in the bottom of your tank is probably mostly still there. Gas water heaters will grumble during heating cycles when they are full of crud, but electric tanks sit there mostly silently till they finally fail.

 

And some of those chunks of calcium and rust are just too big to pass thru the drain.

 

If you are seeing rusty looking water (and ugly brown spots on laundry) then yes its probably time to replace it. 17 years is a long time for a water heater...its ready for retirement.

 

( its possible that the rust is accumulating from the corroding plumbing in your home, and collecting in the water heater. Thats what happened in my home and I had to replumb the entire house!)

 

Another BTW: You can change those elements with a range of wattages. I personally prefer the lower wattages (elements last longer) and then split the duty between 2 tanks. I installed TWO electric water heaters in my house. One feeds the bathroom only, the other feeds the laundry and kitchen only. So, doing 3 or 4 loads of laundry does not affect the hot water source for showers and baths in the bathroom, and vice-versa.

Edited by tx2sturgis
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Don,

 

My son and I installed a tank-less unit using LP at his house. They have maintained records and compared the gas unit used to the same period use with the electric unit for a year. He saves money and most of all, he has instant hot water. Don't remember if I saw gas logs at your house, so it may be that you already using propane other than a 20# bottle. Just another choice for you to think about.

 

MIKE aka Uturn

:Venture:

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Don, an 80 gallon heater is a big water heater. Most families get along fine with a 60 or even a 40 gallon. I doubt you really need one that big.

Something to consider is whether it is the top of the line Whirlpool or Mastercraft, it has the same tank and goes down the same production line. I spent 8 years with American Water Heater and four years ago they were bought out by A O Smith. I spent four years in Quality and four in the Product Engineering Lab. I saw a lot of cost cutting and other than the tank, insulation and outer shell, most of the other components come from China.

Going with the top of the line Whirlpool will get you the Incoloy elements and they are probably a little better, but you will pay a premium for the feature.

There are some features, such as with the Energy Smart models, that have surprisingly complicated electronic controls. They had a lot of bugs in them at first, but I believe they have been worked out.

If your water heater is in an unheated area, it may be beneficial to get a heater with 2 inch insulation and for sure insulate the pipes in that area. I also agree that it would be a good investment to get a filtration system that is user friendly and cheap to change filters.

A O Smith now makes about eight different brands of water heaters. The biggest difference I see between them is price.

RandyA

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Don,

Do you have hard water?

Like Tx2sturgis said the crud in a water tank can't be flushed out by merely draining the tank.... I've got a few of rental units and extreemely hard water.

Once every three or 4 years I have to pull the tank, put it on the taligate of my pickup, with the drain facing out and hook up a water hose with shutoff valve to the cold water line. ( use an iron pipe to water hose fitting). next remover the drain valve. I use a 2' long piece of copper ground wire to push into the drain hole and loosen up the calcium while the water is on. On electric Tanks its faster as you can remove lower element. Every time i do this the calcium is 4-5 inches deep. On electric tanks its easy to know when it needs done as when the calcium gets above the element it will get too hot and burn out.

 

Be careful on the rust aspect of this... it could be that you have a rusted coldwater galvanized pipe nipple on the top of your tank, normally 3" and connects your tank to your input line.

My daughters rusted completly out and burst flooding her basement... hers was only 12 years old. I replaced the tank the nipples and the 18" x 3/4" braided lines above the tank.

 

17 years on a water tank! your running on borrowed time...

Edited by CaptainJoe
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I have a friend that went with demands, he has a point of use unit in the kitchen, washing mashine and half bath so a heater in each place they are needed, gas for the bathroom and electric under the sink. He must have spent some jack and is happy with the larger units but the kitchen has been a source of constant call backs. I looked at a demand system when I built my house and found out that good systems also have an auto purge but they need to be flushed also. I put in two 50 gal gas water heaters plumbed in parallel , not in a series, so each works evenly and we can run hot water all day.

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Don, you're a smart fellow. Didn't you know there's no such thing as a hot water heater? If the water was hot why would you need to heat it? I think you should be buying a cold water heater.

 

Sorry I couldn't help myself.....LOL :080402gudl_prv:

Thats a good one! :rotf::rotf::rotf::rotf:

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Guest tx2sturgis
Don, you're a smart fellow. Didn't you know there's no such thing as a hot water heater? If the water was hot why would you need to heat it? I think you should be buying a cold water heater.

Sorry I couldn't help myself.....LOL :080402gudl_prv:

 

Nope. If the water heater is cold, its not working.

 

 

Maybe it should be called a 'warm'...water heater.

 

:whistling:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by tx2sturgis
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You folks must live in the sticks. I have my water delivered HOT...just not hot enough so that I why I need a hot water heater. :whistling: OK....I just made all of that up but I didn't know how else to cover my error. :)

 

I KNEW that some folks would recommend a tankless or demand type heater. I tried to prevent it by stating in my first post that there is NOT an electric heater that is really suitable for replacing an 80 GPM tank. Didn't work though.

 

My house is almost all electric. The only thing that runs on propane is the emergency heat when it is too cold for the heat pump to work. I really hate propane. If I could get natural gas, I would consider changing over to a gas heater but I'm not interested in installing one that runs on propane.

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this is an old joke we use all the time. It just is a " Water Heater "

 

Don, do you still drive a mini van for work ? I could hook you up with a supplier in your area and save you a few bucks. 75 or 80 gallon heaters are common for your size house.

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don

 

i'm not an expert, but i do have an electric water heater, 50 gal., 2 element , built in 1991 and still going. It is/was built by "STATE"...this 50 gal. heater was always more than enough for me and my 3 sons, even when they were teenagers ( 20 min showers) .from your statements it appears you know what your doing....it seems you do the maintenance needed to maintain an electric heater and i wouldn't spend the extra money for elements...but maybe you could consider a smaller one...also,,no one mentioned replacing the anode rod on a regular schedule...if anything extends the life of an electric water heater, it is doing that...plus flushing...

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this is an old joke we use all the time. It just is a " Water Heater "

 

Don, do you still drive a mini van for work ? I could hook you up with a supplier in your area and save you a few bucks. 75 or 80 gallon heaters are common for your size house.

 

Yes, I still drive the mini van and also have a small trailer. I will certainly be installing it myself so if you can save me some bucks, that would be GREAT. There is no rush, I have this one flushed out pretty well for now. I know it won't be long though.

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don

 

i'm not an expert, but i do have an electric water heater, 50 gal., 2 element , built in 1991 and still going. It is/was built by "STATE"...this 50 gal. heater was always more than enough for me and my 3 sons, even when they were teenagers ( 20 min showers) .from your statements it appears you know what your doing....it seems you do the maintenance needed to maintain an electric heater and i wouldn't spend the extra money for elements...but maybe you could consider a smaller one...also,,no one mentioned replacing the anode rod on a regular schedule...if anything extends the life of an electric water heater, it is doing that...plus flushing...

 

You are apparently more of an expert than I am. I didn't know you could change out the anodes. I know that they should be flushed a couple of times a year. This one hasn't been flushed since....well....this one has NEVER been flushed. :whistling: I'm thinking that KNOWING what to do but never actually DOING it may have contributed to this little issue.

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Yes, I still drive the mini van and also have a small trailer. I will certainly be installing it myself so if you can save me some bucks, that would be GREAT. There is no rush, I have this one flushed out pretty well for now. I know it won't be long though.

 

17 years on a electric tank is good , I had a 75 that went 21 on well water . Only took it out to replace it with a high eff gas model. I was happy when I got the natural gas brought to my house.

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I would like to hear what people think about the tankless systems. We put them in but I usually talk people out of them due to the expense. Unless you need a ton of hot water at one time I think they are a waste of money. Some of these we have put in cost 3 to 4500 hundred. Thats a lot of new standard tanks.

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Guest tx2sturgis
also,,no one mentioned replacing the anode rod on a regular schedule...if anything extends the life of an electric water heater, it is doing that....

 

I didnt mention it because on a 17 year old water heater that is already showing signs of internal rust, I didnt think replacing the anode rod now would save the unit.

 

 

But the anode rod is a sacrificial metal that erodes instead of the other internal metal parts of the tank...thereby extending its life.

 

 

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Wow, 17 years. I usually get about 5 years on my WH here in Florida. The hard water here is terrible. One tip is to use brass nipples on top instead of the galvanized ones that usually come with a new WH. I also found the fancy ones usually dont hold up as well as a good standard unit. I have always used either a Rheem or AO Smith. Im not too impressed with any whirlpool product.

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I didnt mention it because on a 17 year old water heater that is already showing signs of internal rust, I didnt think replacing the anode rod now would save the unit.

 

 

But the anode rod is a sacrificial metal that erodes instead of the other internal metal parts of the tank...thereby extending its life.

 

 

 

I remove the anode rod whenever I have installed a new heater (GAS) , they always make our water smell like sulfur, something about our well water that causes the smell. Even without the anode we always get at least 15 years of service from them, with once a year flushing. Our water softener guy does not recommend a whole house filter before the water softener unless you are going to change out the filter element every 90 day's. He say's restricted water pressure does not let the softener work correctly. If your well point is good you should not be getting debris large enough to cause problems.

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I remove the anode rod whenever I have installed a new heater (GAS) , they always make our water smell like sulfur, something about our well water that causes the smell. Even without the anode we always get at least 15 years of service from them, with once a year flushing. Our water softener guy does not recommend a whole house filter before the water softener unless you are going to change out the filter element every 90 day's. He say's restricted water pressure does not let the softener work correctly. If your well point is good you should not be getting debris large enough to cause problems.

 

Being in the same area I remove the rods also . That rotten egg smell drives me nuts. No rod no smell.

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