Gearhead Posted January 6, 2012 Share #1 Posted January 6, 2012 I just finished replacing the stator on my 87 VR. Thank God for the volt meter on the dash, it allowed me to notice that I wasn't getting charging voltage before it was too late, and I rode the bike home on battery power. What a pain this job is! The stator part is typical - remove the cover, replace the stator, deal with the little rubber plugs where the wires go through. But, as has been noted, the screws holding the stator inside the cover are SUPER TIGHT with Loctite. The gasket was like a piece of granite bonded to the cover - very difficult to remove. And finally, there's the little cavity behind it with all the oil leak opportunities. Ya know, behind the cosmetic flange on the bearing cover behind the stator cover? Mine was an oily mess. I found on this fine website that oil can leak from either of the wire plugs in the stator cover, the gear selector switch, the shift shaft, the clutch slave cylinder installation, or the gaskets themselves. And all of these are packed into a tiny area too small to see, much less work in, which was difficult to clean out because my engine was sitting open with two covers removed and I didn't want crap to get in there. There's also 4 wire bundles that go through there, plus a convoluted shifter design with TWO linkage rods, 4 heim joints and a jackshaft! No wonder the shifter on this bike is not the smoothest I've ever used. I was pretty sure my leak was not coming from the clutch cylinder. That left the gaskets, gear switch o-ring, wire bundles and shift shaft as possibilities. I was already replacing the gaskets and redoing the wire bundles. The gear switch o-ring was low-hanging fruit, so I did it. As others reported, I found one of three retaining screws missing and another loose. Re-installed with Loctite. I did not do the shift shaft seal because, frankly, it looks like a total pain to do and I didn't wanna! I am hopeful that the leak was not there. Well, the good news is that it runs great, charges great, but dunno yet about leaks. I installed the hi-output Rick's stator. They don't list it, but I learned about it here; it is in their Hot Shot series. They don't really give any specs on what to expect in terms of increased performance. I can tell you that by 2000 rpm it's generating 14.75 volts at the battery, even with the driving lights on (stock regulator). Even by 1500 rpm with the driving lights and heated grips on it's getting up over 13V, where charging is starting to happen as opposed to battery drain. I never drive it below 2000 rpm except idling at signals. I don't have any "before" data to compare it to, but my impression is that I am getting more charge at lower rpms. I know that before, if I had my driving lights and heated grips on and was running around town I would gradually deplete the battery. Thanks to all who have contributed to stator and oil leak info on this site. That info makes all the difference when doing the job. Happy New Year, Jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snaggletooth Posted January 6, 2012 Share #2 Posted January 6, 2012 Well, ya got a taste of the inner workings on the old girl. Sounds like you got it licked. The only weak spots for leakage is the rubber grommet for the stator wires to pass though the cover and that danged crush washer on the 6 o'clock bolt on the seconday cover. If ya got them right you got it made. I did the upgrade stator from Buckeye Performance (very similar) a few years ago and they stated around 20% increase in output from the OEM. That's easy to belive. Great charge now at a constant 14.4 just above idle and never drops below 13.2 stopped with all the lights on including those 1157's on the brakes. But I will add that I also did the upgrade to the Shindegen R/R this last year. If you find the need to replace your current R/R go with the Shindengen unit. The new technology is a huge plus. I can run under a full load and with the drivers on and it stays at no lower that 14.2. The first pic was with the OEM stator and R/R at idle. The second is the upgrades at about 1500 RPM. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gearhead Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share #3 Posted January 6, 2012 My Dad has one of those cool digital volt gages on his Voyager. On your 84 VR, don't you have the mechanical anti-dive? There's some component in the electric anti-dive on the 87 that really sucks down the voltage under braking, way more than just the 1157's. Thanks for the advice on the RR, I will definitely look into that should the need arise. But it's working great right now! Oh, and I looked under there this morning and didn't see an oily mess, at least not yet. I need to get in there with the big flashlight and mirror so that if there is still an oil leak, I can see it before a huge mess is present. Jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twigg Posted January 6, 2012 Share #4 Posted January 6, 2012 It's rare for upgraded stators, on any bike, to be able to produce much more than about 20% gains. I read a complicated explanation for this in another place and I dimly recollect that it's not just the windings that are responsible for the power output. The magnetised core is equally responsible, and this is the bit that is difficult to improve upon. Nonetheless, a 20% increase is more than significant and worth the small price premium for those who use lots of electrical farkles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gearhead Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share #5 Posted January 6, 2012 Your farkles are electric? Mine are just gas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twigg Posted January 6, 2012 Share #6 Posted January 6, 2012 Your farkles are electric? Mine are just gas... At the end of July my '86 VR has to cover over 4000 in 100 hours. The last event was 8 hours in the cold and pouring rain. Believe me, I need all the help I can get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snaggletooth Posted January 6, 2012 Share #7 Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) My Dad has one of those cool digital volt gages on his Voyager. On your 84 VR, don't you have the mechanical anti-dive? There's some component in the electric anti-dive on the 87 that really sucks down the voltage under braking, way more than just the 1157's. Thanks for the advice on the RR, I will definitely look into that should the need arise. But it's working great right now! Jeremy The digital gauge will make you wonder about the OEM analog in the dash. There is a bit of difference in the readings. I had an off day a year or so ago and was a ways from home when I noticed the OEM gauge was hair lower than usual. I flipped on the digital and it was showing 13.5 and dropping fast. I headed for home quick and when I stopped in the drive to open the door I saw smoke rolling out from under the bike. About where the R/R was mounted. Another story there but if I hadn't noticed the reading then seen the actual number on the digital I might have got myself stranded. And yep, it DID have the mechanical anti-dives. Did away with them when I polished the fork lowers. Earl, skydoc_17 had just started offering his block off plates so I grabbed a set. Once you install a set of Progressive springs the anti-dives really don't account for much. Mike Edited January 6, 2012 by Snaggletooth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdross440 Posted March 25, 2012 Share #8 Posted March 25, 2012 What is the opinion on the best high output stator, the one Rick's sells or the one Buckeye sells? I have one made by Electrosports that has a winding dead. I've never been happy with it. Can the relay be removed from the anti-dive system and disable it without blocking it off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snaggletooth Posted March 25, 2012 Share #9 Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) What is the opinion on the best high output stator, the one Rick's sells or the one Buckeye sells? I have one made by Electrosports that has a winding dead. I've never been happy with it. Can the relay be removed from the anti-dive system and disable it without blocking it off? Buckeye is top notch! Got four years on mine with no issues. Electrosports has a somewhat "tanished" rep these days. Failures are not uncommon and the word is customer service is lacking. Also PM skydoc_17 here. He has a nice set up that he sells that is a high output stator, 15% more output and a MOSFET R/R for a little more than a new stator. Just unplug anti dive connectors at the top and zip tie them in place. The system is just the two electric units on the forks. Power on and power off. Edited March 25, 2012 by Snaggletooth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skydoc_17 Posted March 25, 2012 Share #10 Posted March 25, 2012 Hey John, Here is some info on stator's that you may find useful. I copied and pasted from a thread that was going around last week. Earl I have found a local AMERICAN MADE Company that makes the High Output Stator and High Output R/R I offer in the Classifieds. The R/R is a DIRECT Electronic Copy of the High Output Shindengen MOSFET Regulator Rectifier that was originally offered in the group buy. I offer the Stator and R/R for the Second Gen.'s as well. Both the Stator and the R/R have a 1 year warranty and as it is with EVERY item I offer in the Classifieds, I personally stand behind these two products. In the Ad I have in the Classifieds, I offer the Stator and the R/R as a matched set. The addition of a High Output Stator run thru a stock R/R does not yield the full benefits of the High Output Stator. The addition of a High Output MOSFET Regulator Rectifier powered by a stock Stator has even less electrical value. Not only do you get a matched set of components in the kit I offer, you also get every gasket you will need to complete this project, with USPS Insured Priority Mail shipping Included in the USA. This project falls into the "I only want to do the job once" category, in my opinion. So I suggest you choose your components wisely. Here is a link to the kit I offer: http://www.venturerider.org/classifi...-kit-21&cat=22 If you have any questions about your charging system, or if you are a Second Gen. owner and are wondering if you already have the High Output Charging system on your bike, please feel free to contact me. Earl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snaggletooth Posted March 25, 2012 Share #11 Posted March 25, 2012 Can't beat that for service Earl! Nuttin' better than a Priority Post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket Posted March 26, 2012 Share #12 Posted March 26, 2012 What is the opinion on the best high output stator, the one Rick's sells or the one Buckeye sells? I have one made by Electrosports that has a winding dead. I've never been happy with it. Can the relay be removed from the anti-dive system and disable it without blocking it off? I do have a Buckeye stator in the 83 Deerhunter, that I ordered right after the 1st Nelson meet & got it a week before PIP. So it was about a month at the time to get it, but no problems so far with it. I have ordered or installed, a few of the "Ricks Motorsport Electrics" stators (since finding them), in the last few years, for a few bikes & no problems as of yet. We had 2 of them overnighted into Cody WY & I installed them the next day in Whoomp's and Marvins bikes. So we were able to ride Yellowstone & the Chief Joseph, before the end of the meet. At that time, Buckeye was re-winding OEM cores & it would have taken weeks, for one of his. But after our initial contact with him, he had a competitors stator (no idea which make) overnighted to him & then overnighted it to Cody. So while we were riding Yellowstone a 3rd stator arrived, so StuD took it home with him as a backup, for one of his scoots. BTW it would have been about $660. each for OEM stators, as we checked locally first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdross440 Posted March 26, 2012 Share #13 Posted March 26, 2012 Thanks for the replies. I am on a limited budget right now, especially since uncle sam is soon asking for more than his share. I will probably go with the Rick's stator at $160. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddevilmedic Posted March 26, 2012 Share #14 Posted March 26, 2012 i went with skydocs setup. works awesome, and earl is a perfect gentleman. i screwed up the first housing gasket, he sent me another immediately. his advice was priceless. doubt youre gonna get that anywhere else. i am having a issue though. when i apply brake from handlebars. big voltage drop. also, kickstand switch isnt working. ugh. oh, one more issue. the foot brake pedal isnt returning all the way, causing the brake light to stay engaged on. i rebled the brakes(speedbleeder). have good pedal, just wont come up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdross440 Posted March 26, 2012 Share #15 Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) I plugged in my digital voltmeter this morning. On the road at 65 mph it was reading 13.75 volts. At idle it would drop to 12.05 to 12.3. At 2000 rpm it would come up to around 12.9. I'm not sure what's going on. I have deleted the connector between stator and regulator (they were in good shape but deleted just in case). I'm not going to buy and replace anything until I figure out what's going on and what is really causing my problem. I had pressue washed the bike to get all the oil off from valve cover and oil filter leaks and may have gotten something wet. I dried the stator and regulator connectors afterwards but could have been a connector higher up in the system. I did disconnect the connectors for the anti-dive. Amazing the difference in current draw with brake applied. Edited March 26, 2012 by jdross440 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yammer Dan Posted March 26, 2012 Share #16 Posted March 26, 2012 i went with skydocs setup. works awesome, and earl is a perfect gentleman. i screwed up the first housing gasket, he sent me another immediately. his advice was priceless. doubt youre gonna get that anywhere else. i am having a issue though. when i apply brake from handlebars. big voltage drop. also, kickstand switch isnt working. ugh. oh, one more issue. the foot brake pedal isnt returning all the way, causing the brake light to stay engaged on. i rebled the brakes(speedbleeder). have good pedal, just wont come up. I think there is a adjustment on the return spring on the switch in there some around the rear Master. Kind of tricky to get to if I remember but not that bad. Make sure linkage is adjusted right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddevilmedic Posted March 26, 2012 Share #17 Posted March 26, 2012 i think i have another brake switch around here somewhere. not riding for a couple weeks, moving. i bent my left big toe nail completely back loading a friend roadking the other day. ow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yammer Dan Posted March 26, 2012 Share #18 Posted March 26, 2012 i think i have another brake switch around here somewhere. not riding for a couple weeks, moving. i bent my left big toe nail completely back loading a friend roadking the other day. ow. OUCH!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdross440 Posted March 26, 2012 Share #19 Posted March 26, 2012 On the way home this afternoon, the voltage was running 13.64 volts until I got off the freeway and had to stop. It went down to between 11.8 and 12.2 (depended on whether I had brake on). When I sped back up to a steady 3000 rpm it only went up to 12.25 to 12.3 volts. Sure is strange. Sounds like the stator, as it heats up as engine temp comes up while stopped, it's failing or the regulator is failing due to temp. It just started all this after I washed it, which may be a coincidence. I am going to drive it this way as long as it will go until at least until after April tax payment (and then probably order from Sky_doc if the stator/regulator prove to be the problem) . Any further suggestions would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyinfool Posted March 26, 2012 Share #20 Posted March 26, 2012 Set your voltmeter to measure 200 volts AC. Check between any 2 of the stator wires with the engine running. Check it at idle and at 3000 rpm. Then check another pair of wires and finally the third pair of wires. The stator should be connected to the RR and everything turned on that is normally on while riding. The voltage should be the same or at least very close to the same no mater which 2 wires are measured. Let us know the voltages at idle and 3000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdross440 Posted March 27, 2012 Share #21 Posted March 27, 2012 I just did the tests. At idle: between one pair 15.8 V AC, second pair 6.9 V, third 8.1 V. At 3K 16.5, 7.4 and 7.9 respective. When going to work this morning (20 miles mostly freeway) it was 55 degrees. At approx 3k rpm I had 14.v but I noticed when I turned on the turn signal it would drop to 13.25 and if I touch the brake it would drop to 12.9 or lower. At idle it was showing 13.2. After I stopped and let my wife off, the voltage ran 12.5 until it cooled down some. Coming home (85 degrees) it ran 13.9 V until I stopped in traffic for 5 minutes and everything heated up then dropped to below 11.5 at idle and 12.5 at 3k and didn't come back even after cooling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyinfool Posted March 28, 2012 Share #22 Posted March 28, 2012 I just did the tests. At idle: between one pair 15.8 V AC, second pair 6.9 V, third 8.1 V. At 3K 16.5, 7.4 and 7.9 respective. When going to work this morning (20 miles mostly freeway) it was 55 degrees. At approx 3k rpm I had 14.v but I noticed when I turned on the turn signal it would drop to 13.25 and if I touch the brake it would drop to 12.9 or lower. At idle it was showing 13.2. After I stopped and let my wife off, the voltage ran 12.5 until it cooled down some. Coming home (85 degrees) it ran 13.9 V until I stopped in traffic for 5 minutes and everything heated up then dropped to below 11.5 at idle and 12.5 at 3k and didn't come back even after cooling. Those are way low numbers. all 3 sets should be within 0.1V. Any wire pair should be around 20 VAC. If the stator can not give the RR at least 16V, the RR can not hold 14V output. It looks like you have either a bad stator or a bad wire connection. 2 of the 3 windings are not carringing there share of the load, the single winding that is still working will let you have yor 14V but as soon as there is any load added the votage falls off. There are additional tests that you can do on the stator to help confirm for sure that it is the problem. These tests are in the service manual in the tech section. If I get a chance I'll try to find it tomorrow. Unless someone else beats me to it. It is still possible that 1 or more diodes in the RR has failed and are pulling the stator voltage down. Thats why you still need to do some more tests. All you have proven so far is that you do have a serious electrical problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdross440 Posted March 28, 2012 Share #23 Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) The stator wires are spliced direct to the RR. I have another used RR but didn't want to cut the wires again if I don't have too as they will start getting too short from the stator to splice. I guess for a test I could use some "wire nuts" on those wires or just solder them. I'll have more time Saturday to do more testing. I have the original stator that is good (I wanted more output for my driving light) I may install and see what happens. It's definately temperature related. This morning on the way to work, voltage stayed around 14 until I stopped and let the temperature come up (normally runs with temp needle straight across) to where temp was showing between midpoint and red. Voltage went down and stayed down until I drove far enough for the temp to drop back to normal then voltage came back up. Edited March 28, 2012 by jdross440 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonslayer Posted March 28, 2012 Share #24 Posted March 28, 2012 What is that link to Buckeye performance again? I can't seem to find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rev'n Ahead Posted March 28, 2012 Share #25 Posted March 28, 2012 http://www.buckeyeperformance.com/ always very happy to help on VR.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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