deepforkriver Posted December 20, 2011 Share #1 Posted December 20, 2011 Hi all, thanks for letting me post. Bought a 99 royal star venture couple months ago. always had a little problem being "cold natured". Since it's cold, I decided to change oil, etc. and try to chase down problem with starting. It is getting worse. I have run battery down several times. Here is what I know: New plugs, getting plenty fuel, good compression, good battery, everything else seems in order. Pulled rear new plugs and no fire/spark. No loose connections at coils. When bought, key was bent slightly, straightened that out, but ignition never felt correct. Also, it's getting worse as I said, now it wont start at all. Thank you for any help in advance. I am limited on technical knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfVenture Posted December 20, 2011 Share #2 Posted December 20, 2011 This summer on my 89 VR, my VR acted like I lost a cylinder. With this groups suggestion I bought an infer-red temperture unit and discovered that 2 of my cylinders were not warming up properly. The problem was that the actual wire was bad where the cap screws into. I ended up snitting off the bad end and I got 4 cylinders firing 100% again. You might want to check both ends of the wire. Then do a spark check again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skydoc_17 Posted December 20, 2011 Share #3 Posted December 20, 2011 Hey James, Welcome to the VR.Org forum. There are a few issues with the Second Gens. in the areas you mentioned. Here is a link to the Ignition Bypass from the Tech. Section: http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=32359 Another issue has been the ignition coils. Although I have seen what I thought was a bad set of coils turn out to be a bad fuel pump. (another issue with the Second Gens.) Start with the Ignition Bypass, report the results, and I am sure one or more of the Second Gen. wizards will walk you thru checking the fuel pump and coils. Don't give up, these bikes are worth the trouble to keep them running properly. Good luck with this project. Earl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepforkriver Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share #4 Posted December 21, 2011 Thank you for your help! I will try this at first opportunity! Love the bike! Will report back as soon as I give it a try. Thanks again! James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7Goose Posted December 21, 2011 Share #5 Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) Hi all, thanks for letting me post. Bought a 99 royal star venture couple months ago. always had a little problem being "cold natured". Since it's cold, I decided to change oil, etc. and try to chase down problem with starting. It is getting worse. I have run battery down several times. Here is what I know: New plugs, getting plenty fuel, good compression, good battery, everything else seems in order. Pulled rear new plugs and no fire/spark. No loose connections at coils. When bought, key was bent slightly, straightened that out, but ignition never felt correct. Also, it's getting worse as I said, now it wont start at all. Thank you for any help in advance. I am limited on technical knowledge. The good news is that your problem should be relatively easy to sort out. The bad news is that it is only relatively easy with a reasonable level of technical skill. I'd bet your primary jets are mostly clogged and the carbs need a good clean out. Beyond that, since the problem sounds intermittent, the ignition switch is a likely problem - easy to test with an ohm meter if you can read the schematic. The pickup coil could also be loose or have a bad wire/connection. There are other things that could cause it, but those are the most likely. Any way you can bring the bike down to Fort Worth? It's really not that far away. If you are interested, give me a call and we can talk about what I can do for you and possible costs. I do not charge to help members do basic maintenance and troubleshooting, but I do for bigger jobs like carb cleaning, valves and steering head or swing arm bearings. I used to do those for free too, but too many freeloaders started crawling out of the woodwork for the free work - had to control it! But my costs are still less than half of what any shop will typically charge, and I do the work WITH you as a training session. Goose Edited December 21, 2011 by V7Goose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skydoc_17 Posted December 21, 2011 Share #6 Posted December 21, 2011 Hey James, If you can't get this sorted out, even if you had to trailer the bike down, Kent (V7Goose) would be the man I would want to work on my Second Gen. He's good folks, and knows his way around a Second Gen. Motorcycle. Plus, you will definitely learn a thing or two about your bike when you are done! Earl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepforkriver Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share #7 Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) V7Goose: Thank you for the offer! The response here has been wonderful! Quickly, little more backgound. I heavily suspect an ignition/coil problem. After buddy on here bought 01 Venture and let me ride, the search was on! I currently have a Harley and wifes Virago, and am mechanical to a point, saying that I can do about anything on the bikes. Troubleshooting wiring/electrical on the other hand, is a weakness without extended thought and brain drain. Buddy with 01 was a Yamaha tech for several years. He is more than willing to help but I needed direction as I know little about the Gen II. and wanted to fix myself. My Venture has 49k and prior to my purchase 2 months ago, just returned from trip Arkansas to Las Vegas, with full service prior to ride. Being anal as I am and mechanically conscience (Like bikes to be perfect mechanically) I did tune up limited to plugs, oil, air, etc. and the problem has progressed to not starting at all. It was a problem as soon as I got it home, but would start after 30 seconds of trying... If I cannot get to the bottom of problem, I will be happy to trailer it to you! I am close to T-Town but it's no thing to get it there. My friend and I can always use an honest mechanic to help and it sounds like you come highly recommended. I will be looking into it on Friday. Will report back with findings! p.s. Harley goes up for sale in the Spring! we are looking for a carb sync tool to share if you know of anyone wanting to get rid of a good used one) Edited December 21, 2011 by deepforkriver took off smiley! haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepforkriver Posted December 22, 2011 Author Share #8 Posted December 22, 2011 Ok fellas, I am a little tired but here goes. Turned on the key and nothing but neutral light and radio. No crank, no headlight, nada. Buddy came by, we checked every single connection to the ignition switch per manual with meter, all good. Ignition good. Fuses good.. Found white connector and wire on starbird side outside battery box that had disconnected. plugged in: wham. cranks again. back to where we started. Lights: check. everything: check. NO SPARK. so, I suspect the pickup coil. Too tired to crawl under and over anymore tonight to locate plug for pickup coil. have schematic on how to test tho and will tomorrow night I hope. We gave it a thorough check and all else looks good. Anyone have links or shortcuts or pictures to the connection for pickup coil? Looks like it could be a bugger to get to.... Thanks again, you guys are the greatest and have been so helpful... Soon to be riding again! James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepforkriver Posted December 23, 2011 Author Share #9 Posted December 23, 2011 Ok, so after 2 late nights running wires, we found leads for pickup coil and are getting 65-115 reading on meter with meter set on 200k. Cleaned plug caps (springs were corroded badly) and got good reading thru caps. Still no fire to plugs. Any ideas?? Kickstand switch is working properly, kill switch is working proper, bike is apart, all seems to work right except reading on pickup coil. No fire to any cylinder. Have all lights, radio, etc. Anyone have suggestions? kicking our tail..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7Goose Posted December 23, 2011 Share #10 Posted December 23, 2011 (edited) Ok, so after 2 late nights running wires, we found leads for pickup coil and are getting 65-115 reading on meter with meter set on 200k. kicking our tail..... If you have measured the pickup coil correctly, it is bad. The resistance should only be about 200 ohms. If you are reading anything at all with the meter set on the 200K scale, then the coil is basically open. On that hign of a scale, the meter will show a 200 ohm resistance as basically 0. BTW - while there are thousands of different meters available, and it would be impossible for me to know what your specific one looks like, a 200K scale would be VERY unusual for resistance if it is an analog meter - are you sure you are using the meter correctly? Ohmmeters typically have scales that increment in powers of 10 to make them easy to read, like this: Rx1, Rx10, Rx100, Rx1K, etc. A 200K scale on a digital meter would not be abnormal, but the pickup coil would only show .001 on such a high setting. Goose Edited December 23, 2011 by V7Goose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wideopenrod Posted December 23, 2011 Share #11 Posted December 23, 2011 V7Goose, meter set at 200, we don't get any reading.... so set on 200k and like James says it fluctuates.. Another thing is the Starter Cut off Relay... could that be an issue? We tested it for continuity as per the book and couldn't get any.. Typically I am pretty good at electrical issues...just scratching the head a bit on this one. Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7Goose Posted December 23, 2011 Share #12 Posted December 23, 2011 V7Goose, meter set at 200, we don't get any reading.... so set on 200k and like James says it fluctuates.. Another thing is the Starter Cut off Relay... could that be an issue? We tested it for continuity as per the book and couldn't get any.. Typically I am pretty good at electrical issues...just scratching the head a bit on this one. RodTypically a coil will never read higher than the specification - if some of the windings are shorted, it can read lower, but never higher (other than completely open). And there is nothing about a coil that could ever allow the reading to vary as you describe. If your meter is good and you have good connection with the test leads, then the only logical cause would be a poor or corroded wire connection, such as a bad crimp in the plug, or a cold solder joint. Since the pickup coil is a sealed unit, there is no way to find and test/fix a poor solder joint, but the plug connections could be bad. To test the coil while bypassing the connector, use a couple of straight pins and push them through the wires near the coil, then connect the meter to the pins. The combined starter cutout/fuel pump relay does have many diodes in it that allow various ground connections to reach the ignitor (totally unrelated to either of the relays!), and it absolutely can cause the problem you are having. The full description of these circuits is fairly complicated and far beyond what I can do at this time, but I have covered them in older threads. But until you can get a proper resistance reading from the pickup coil, I wouldn't spend any time looking into a different problem. Goose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7Goose Posted December 23, 2011 Share #13 Posted December 23, 2011 (edited) Just a couple of other thoughts on the strange variable resistance reading you are getting on the coil - If you have a digital ohmmeter, make sure it is not in the diode-check mode instead of straight resistance. Secondly, check the battery in the ohmmeter. Even analog meters must have a battery specific to the ohm function even though no battery is needed for voltage or amp readings, and digital meters often have two different batteries, one to power the meter, and a separate one just to power the ohm function (commonly a single AA battery). If that battery is very weak, the supplied voltage while it is connected to a load will drop steadily, causing the reading to change the longer you have the meter connected. Goose Edited December 23, 2011 by V7Goose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wideopenrod Posted December 23, 2011 Share #14 Posted December 23, 2011 Yeah not sure about the meter battery.. it has been quite a while(years)... We will change that and see what happens.... Thanks for the suggestion. Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7Goose Posted December 23, 2011 Share #15 Posted December 23, 2011 Obviously the best test of an ohmmeter is to check the reading of some known resistance (such as a resistor from an electronics store). But if you do not have anything like that laying around, here are some very rough numbers from a couple of household light bulbs: A standard 40 watt 110V bulb will show somewhere between 25-50 ohms, and a little 4 watt night light bulb will be around 400 ohms. Goose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepforkriver Posted December 23, 2011 Author Share #16 Posted December 23, 2011 Ok, pulled the pickup coil, put it on the bench, skinned back the wires right next to coil and put the meter directly on wires. Same readings, no good. Ordering one tonight. Lordy I hope that's it. Ever pulled the side cover without pulling the pipe? yeehaw,. Goose. You have been a wonderful help and we appreciate it sincerely. Have talked on the phone to some of you and emailed some, thank you as well. I will update after new pickup coil is installed and we crank the beast! Best to all and a MERRY CHRISTMAS!! James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted December 25, 2011 Share #17 Posted December 25, 2011 Ummmm--- must have been the famous right rear coil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepforkriver Posted January 1, 2012 Author Share #18 Posted January 1, 2012 Hello All, Just posting to let you know I got the gremlins out of the Venture! And she purrs like a nest of breeder snakes! Ordered a pickup coil from Pinwall from a 07. Put meter on it, checked out good. (great service and shipping) Spent the afternoon re-assembling almost the entire bike (had to check it all!). At first, would not start, but put kickstand up and BOOM! She sprang to life. GOOD NEWS! So now I just need to either bypass the kickstand switch or replace it. Probably bypass. But still, a very nice ride today in 72 degree awesome Oklahoma weather. Thank you everyone for your suggestions, phone calls and help! It is very much appreciated and a venturerider.org member for a long long time to come! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted January 1, 2012 Share #19 Posted January 1, 2012 ` Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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