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What WE MAKE cagers think


Marcarl

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What do we make cagers think when we share the road, and related thoughts.

 

Often and most time we blame the cager for not seeing us. This maybe true, but no matter who's to blame for the mishaps or near mishaps, riders still end up with the short end of the stick, and are the ones who have to deal with the worst aftermath. How to minimize these situations is an ongoing discussion and I would like to add to it from a different point of view.

 

First, lets accept the fact that an accident is the fault of those involved, in our case the rider and the cager. We all know that the cager will not 'see us', so it's up to us to avoid being hit. The cager is no help in this department. With that in mind here's my thoughts:

 

TWO LANE ROAD:

 

1) Always ride the left hand track, in the right hand track we get lost in the scenery and we tell others that we are not really a contender in the traffic.

 

2) When approaching an intersection and you have a left turner coming toward you, stay in the left hand track. If you move over to the right hand track you are telling the cager that you are making a right turn, and guess what, he's going first, and right into your path cutting off all chance of escape. If you stay in the left track and he does turn in front of you, you have a chance of going behind him. However small that opening may be, it’s may be the only one you’ve got.

 

3) When traveling down the road stay with the traffic speed. You are telling the cager that you are part of his environment and not just something to get out of the way. Keep your left track and block your lane. If you move to the right track you are telling them: I’m trying to give you room to pass me, try it if you think it’s ok and take me out in the process. It also gives you a better vision to the front and traffic coming towards you are also aware of your presence and so have to contend with you.

 

4) Always and always block your lane. You paid for it as much as anyone else, you have a right to it and it’s yours to use to your full advantage.

 

5) When making a right hand turn never use the right hand track, in doing so you are telling the cager that it’s ok for him to try and squeeze by you, but often times there’s not quite enough room and over you go.

 

6) When making a left turn use the center right track and so block your lane. Sure the cager has to wait to go past you, but then he does for anyone else as well so why not for you. If he knows he’s going to take you out he will contend with you, but if he can put you on the side in his mind, you’re the one who deals with the problems. Further more if the cager thinks that he can scoot past you and stay on the pavement he will, force him to leave the pavement and he will give you a wider berth.

 

7) Never give a cager the idea that you may even want to share your lane with him, it’s yours, you paid for it, at present you own it and are using it and he’s to keep away from you.

 

8) When stopped at a light or stop sign, tell others by your action that you own the lane, park crosswise in the middle if that’s what it takes, just don’t let anyone even think that there may be a chance that they could squeeze by.

 

FOUR LANE, Two lanes in either direction.

 

I find that sometimes it feels safer in the right and other times safer in the left. I’m not really stuck on the one vs. the other.

 

1) When in the right lane be visible and use the left track, when in the left lane be just as visible and use the right track. Again, let others know that you intend to be a contender in traffic and they will have to deal with you. This may seem to be an aggressive way of thinking and doesn’t fly with the thought that we are super vulnerable. We are super vulnerable and should never forget that fact, but that doesn’t mean that we need to tell the cager that. Let him know that we are part of the world he has to deal with and it will be much harder for him to put us aside mentally.

 

2) When passing continue to use the proper tracks. You may feel safer in the other track, but you won’t be taking over your rightful lane, you will be unnoticed, and therefore uncared for.

 

3) When doing an exit, continue to claim your right to your lane as long as possible, nobody will run you down, but if you fade to the right to try and get out the way then others will take your lane away from you before they should.

 

These are just some thoughts, hopefully helpful, but I’m not an expert by any stretch of the imagination. Lets use this to start a discussion and to educated each other more fully. Got some helpful insight? Some good pointers? Type away and help the rest of us as well.

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Pretty good Marcarl and I totaly agree with the pysco of it however If the driver thinks your being to assertive (agressive ) and goes into a fit of roadrage,,, all that goes out the (window if I had one) and its cover your ass any way you can,and get the hell out of there.....

:cool10:

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I do most of what you wrote. Some of it I never noticed. I tell people who ride that we need to be very proactive, not reactive. I love to ride. I enjoy the ride. But i always assume that I am in danger. No in a scary way, but I never let my guard down. I use my scoot as my primary vehicle. I commute to work. I make it a point to be as visable as I can an position myself so that I do block vehicles around me. I don't want to leave a gap.

 

I am glad you wrote this.

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That's great information. Seems it's what many of us do without realizing it. Nice to have it laid down in writing...sort of solidifys things.

 

I'd like to add... when passing on a 2 lane...I tend to stay in the right groove of the passing lane. That way, I remain in the side view mirror of the person I'm passing longer and, if I have to get back into my own lane quickly, I have less distance to do so. (that method may be right or it may be wrong but that's what I do)

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Good info. I'd also like to point out that most motorcyclist I see on the road don't leave enough room between themselves and the vehicles in front of or behind them.

 

This is especially hazardous when approaching an intersection, if you are following a vehicle and are closer than 4 car lengths at city speeds then you are too close if someone is wanting to make a left as soon as the car in front passes by. You are too close for the driver to see you and he will make his move, right in to your path. If you are in the right wheel track, then you are inviting trouble.

 

When on a two lane highway I ride the left wheel track and make sure that I can see the mirror of the vehicle I am following, this also allows me to see what traffic ahead is doing. Also I find that most cagers will follow me at about the same distance I am following the vehicle ahead of me. If I am too close then they will follow me too close. If they are following me too close and I am at the right distance I will slow down until they get the message.

 

Always "Ride To Be Seen!"

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These are all good suggestions. To me, probably the single most important thing about riding is FOCUS. Do not get distracted by the pretty lady walking down the street, the cool car parked on the side of the road, etc. You MUST be observant about what is going on and what MIGHT happen in front of or behind you. Basic defensive driving.

 

I also want to point out another thing that some of you may not agree with. I know that we have some truckers here and to be honest, I sometimes think that they get the raw deal when it comes to placing blame. Most of you know that I'm on the road almost all the time and I can tell you that while there are a few bad truckers out there, there are far more very bad drivers of family sedans, pickups, etc. Those trucks do not stop on a dime and they take a lot of room sometimes to turn and perform other simple tasks. As I watch some of the idiot drivers that are running around in their sedans, coupes, etc., I can only imagine the challenge that some of them cause the truck drivers.

 

When you hear about a bike or even a car accident where a truck turned in front of the rider or driver and there was a wreck, you can't always assume that it was the truckers fault. On our busy streets in some cities, if a truck waited until there was absolutely nobody coming from the other direction, we would have traffic jams that would grind our cities to a halt. The trucks simply can't make the turns where there are no lights quickly enough that oncoming traffic does not have to sometimes stop and wait for a few seconds or a minute. They have to wait until they do not cut somebody so close that they CAN'T slow down or stop and that's just the way it is.

 

I say this from personal experience. About 12-14 years ago, I was living in San Diego. I was driving down the road one day when a Semi coming from the other direction turned in front of me. Luckily, I was driving a car and not a motorcycle at the time and locked up my brakes but couldn't stop in time. I ended up turning just enough to crash into the rear tires of the truck instead of going under the trailer. It didn't quiet total my car but came very close. Due to the fact that I had my seat belt on and my airbag deployed, I manage to walk away from it with no injuries.

 

A couple of days later I got the accident report and was shocked that they found me to be at fault. I was very angry at the time and thought how in the world can I be at fault when he turned in front of me. The fact is though, after I cooled down and got over my denial, I knew that it was the right conclusion. I should NOT have been driving that day. I was having a personal problem and my mind was NOT on the road. I was looking away down another street and can't honestly say how long it had been since I had looked at where I was actually going. Had I been paying attention, I would have seen the truck making the turn and would easily have had time to slow down and even come to a normal stop had I needed to. They were able to tell by my skid marks and by how far back I had hit the truck and how far he was already through the turn that I had reacted much later than I should have.

 

It was a just call on the part of the investigator. As I look back on it now, I am glad that some innocent trucker wasn't cited and his driving record negatively affected by my own failure to be observant. Had I been on a motorcycle that day, I would most likely not be writing this story.

 

So...all I'm really saying is that riding a motorcycle requires complete focus and observance of what is going on all around you. You must anticipate what MIGHT happen at any time. The motorcycle safety course teaches much of this and I hope that everybody here who hasn't taken the basic course and the advance course does so as soon as possible.

 

Sorry this was so long, but this is an important topic.

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Good post Marcarl! :happy34:

 

I was just thinking about making a similar one while riding to work the other day. I agree with just about everything said so far. The one thing I do a bit differently is sometimes on a multi-lane highway when I've chosen the left lane to keep cager threats to only one side - I occasionally will go a bit faster than the traffic flow. This allows me to keep a lot of the threats behind me. It allows me to move past blind spots too. I also claim my lane on the right portion of the lane in that situation to stay in as many mirror as possible too.

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I do most of those things as well. I commute in heavy rush hour traffic and I always do what it takes to make sure I OWN MY LANE. In multi-lane traffic I ride the left track in the right lane, the right track in the left lane. I've done this just to make sure some moron doesn't think he can share my lane. In the center lane I tend to center and drift a little towards right track then to left track. More lights always helps.

 

I've always ridden with this in mind.

 

No matter how RIGHT you are, you still lose.

 

 

:checkeredflag::biker::usa:

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I do most of those things as well. I commute in heavy rush hour traffic and I always do what it takes to make sure I OWN MY LANE. In multi-lane traffic I ride the left track in the right lane, the right track in the left lane. I've done this just to make sure some moron doesn't think he can share my lane. In the center lane I tend to center and drift a little towards right track then to left track. More lights always helps.

 

I've always ridden with this in mind.

 

No matter how RIGHT you are, your still lose.

 

 

:checkeredflag::biker::usa:

 

 

:sign yeah that:

 

I also commute everyday, half of my trip is on dedicated High Occupancy Vehicle lanes (2 lanes) at 50-80 mph. While I practice much of what has been said in the posts above, what frosts me are the other riders who are sooo aggressive they nearly ride the white dotted lines, floating from lane to lane to get ahead of the traffic one vehicle at a time, often splitting the lane to get between two cagers who are side-by-side. What must the cagers think of us when they see this type of riding. I've been in a collision before...and I ride very conservatively because I shiver at the thought of it happening again. It's tough to try to own your space when the cagers see other riders violating this double standard.:soapbox: :mad:

 

My :2cents:

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  • 4 months later...

I'm getting caught up on some old posts and saw this interesting discussion. If I may add my thoughts...

 

In any given situation, I try to think of where I am most vulnerable. In commercial areas with lots of driveways, I tend to ride right or center in my lane. I want to make sure that the cager who is trying to get out of a parking lot or driveway sees me and doesn't think he can jump out real quick in front of the car behind me.

 

And to further support the obvious that Freebird stated, stay alert to your surroundings. The only time I have come close to a major accident on my bike was completely my fault. I was following a semi too close. This is my single biggest flaw driving four wheels or two. The truck locked up his brakes for some reason. I had to stop quick. I didn't think I would stop before I ran into the trailer and I wasn't too sure the car behind me would stop before he hit me. I went into the grass median and laid 'er down. The lesson: one one thousand...two one thousand...

 

Thanks for this website Freebird.

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Excellent post - thanks.

 

One thing - you stated:

 

"2) When approaching an intersection and you have a left turner coming toward you, stay in the left hand track."

 

And I agree totally - I do sometimes zig/zag a bit from the left track to the centre and back. I've been hit once by a left turner and came REAL close several times. I find by zig zagging a bit, the left turner sees me better and stays put!!

 

Thinks I'm crazy or something - which I often am!!

 

Thanks again for the great reminders.

 

Eugene

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Good stuff here. My two cents is to keep track of what is around you. I often find cagers driving right beside me with the phone glued to their ear, or talking with their passengers, putting on makeup, etc. They'll also do the same while following 6 feet off my back tire. There is no way they can see me with their head somewhere else. I always make sure I'm staggered in traffic so nobody is right beside me. Similarly, I stay out of blind spots. That way I have some place to go if things get dicey. If they follow to close I'll slow down, or even show them the flat of my hand in a stop signal. You'd be amazed at how many people back off. The ones that don't back off find a way to go around.

 

My closest call lately was to pass someone on the right as they slowed to make a left turn. The oncoming traffic was also turning left, and they didn't see me behind the car I was passing. It was only my situational awareness that saved my bacon that day. That and the wonderful V4 motor that moved me out of the way when I grabbed a handful. If I had tried to stop I would have been road rash.

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There is one more thing I'd like to comment on.

 

That has to do with the left hand track, 2 lane road / highway.

 

First of all, on a 2 lane highway, traffic coming towards you, no traffic in front of you. IMO it's better to be in the right hand track because that puts you into the view of the oncoming driver who is pulling out to pass someone sooner. If you're in the left hand track, that driver has to get out farther into your path before he will see you. Better for you to increase the "angle of view" than him.

 

Approaching a left hand turner. Again, if there is any traffic going in the opposite direction, and you have no one in front of you, if you're in the right hand track, that on-coming left hand turner will see you sooner. Perhaps just right of centre would be better that way they don't get the idea you're turning right. Eugene mentioned the "zig-zagging" and that's a good idea as well. One thing I've noticed about many left hand turners and that is they sit there, partially turned into on-coming traffic, with their wheels turned. IF, for example, you're in the left hand track as you appraoch them and somebody hits them from behind, they're into your path NOW! Whereas if you're over to the right, there's more space for their reaction to hit the brakes and/or more space for their vehicle to come to a stop meaning less need for defensive manoeuver by you. IMO, the majority of drivers, if they can see you, aren't going to make a left hand turn into the path of an on-coming vehicle anyway, even if they figgure that vehicle is going to turn right simply because we are all taught that you don't turn into the path of an on-coming vehicle. Especially if you think they're turning right because they just might change their mind and then what?

 

In both of the above scenarios, if you're in the left hand track, you are much more "hidden" by the oncoming traffic and in fact, can sometimes be "blended in" to it (as seen by that oncoming driver who is pulling out to pass or looking for a "hole" to turn left)

 

just my $0.05 opinion.

 

One thing for sure, it never does harm to open up such a discussion because if nothing else, it gets your mind thinking defensively and makes you more conscious of the need to be constantly aware of the other drivers around you.

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My closest call lately was to pass someone on the right as they slowed to make a left turn. The oncoming traffic was also turning left, and they didn't see me behind the car I was passing. It was only my situational awareness that saved my bacon that day. That and the wonderful V4 motor that moved me out of the way when I grabbed a handful. If I had tried to stop I would have been road rash.

 

Danged lucky for you! Just curious, was this a 2 lane road/street or four lane?

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Good points SilvrT

 

I guess the situation determines the best approach. I also very much agree its great to discuss it here as it serves as a wonderful reminder.

 

Next time you see a bike coming in the opposite direction AND there is a car close behind him/her, and the rider is in the left track - have a look and see how "hidden" he/she really is - I noticed that today - the rider "blended" in with the car behind. As SilvrT pointed out, if the opposite oncoming traffic is heavy and someone sticks their nose out to pass, they will surely misjudge the distance to the bike.

 

Ride safe

 

Eugene

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they will surely misjudge the distance to the bike.

 

(or not see them at all until it's too late)

 

There are a lot of "judgement calls" on our part and in some cases, there is no one rule that is necessarilly the best. What is the best is brainstorming, taking in this information, putting it into practise, and being constantly aware of all the good information on this topic that we share with each other.

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I myself ride and drive defensively all the time. One thing I do, that I've not seen yet, is I ride with my high-beam on during the day. I've not had anybody blink theirs at me and I know that it gives me that extra bit that I might not have without it. With the prevalence of DRLs on all the cars, it might help distinguish you from the cages.

 

Just my 2 cents worth,

Ride safe and often,

Dan

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I myself ride and drive defensively all the time. One thing I do, that I've not seen yet, is I ride with my high-beam on during the day. I've not had anybody blink theirs at me and I know that it gives me that extra bit that I might not have without it. With the prevalence of DRLs on all the cars, it might help distinguish you from the cages.

 

Just my 2 cents worth,

Ride safe and often,

Dan

 

Good that you mentioned that... I never used to but while on a group ride back in the spring, one of the other riders in front of me suggested it (over the CB) as my headlight didn't appear very bright. I switched to high beam and he said "they can see ya coming now". I've been doing that ever since.

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I think this is a GREAT thread.. Something I have always loved about biking is that no matter how long you have been doing it the learning curve continues..

Something I learned and always taught my kids when teaching them to drive/ride is to take LOTS of pictures.. By this I of course me mental pictures of the surrounding area -- the point is that you can trust NO ONE.. Did you see that shadow under the car that was approaching the intersection Son?? Ahhhhh,, no I didnt.. Then your mind wasnt on driving - remember Son, you can trust NO ONE but yourself, YOU have to drive for both you and them... Can you tell me whether that car that was sitting at the end of that driveway had a hubcap on the front wheel or not Daughter?? Whats that got to do with anything Dad? Cause you can trust NO ONE other then yourself when your driving a car,,, that front wheel will tell you where that car will squirt to if the drivers foot slips and will also tell you if the car is moving -- all at a glance!! I have gotten myself into the habit of slowing wayyyyy down for people who like to creep at corners or when coming out of their driveways.. As a matter of fact, I now make it my appointed duty to come to a complete stop and sit there and stare at them when this happens --- just to let them know that I dont trust them,, the ONLY person I trust behind the wheel is me... Pardon me wife,, but did you head check that merge?? Shut up husband - I aint one of the kids...

I like the swerving idea when coming to an intersection to maintain your lane ownership that someone mentioned - mainly because I TRUST NO ONE other than myself while I am driving.. I have lived in the country for years and have had to contend with Deer during twilight hours for a long time - one thing that deer have taught me is you cant trust them.. During these high engagement probabilty hours I gently swerve back and forth so my lights are scanning from one side to the other. If you have never done this you will be shocked to see how far down the road your lights will light up their X-ray eyes as well as other critters.. Once you have avoided and accident by doing this you will be shocked too at how natural it is.. All you have to do stay focused in your ever searching endeavor to see em before they attempt to do you in..

ANother thing to be aware of is the location of the Sun.. If your riding early mornings and late evenings with the sun on your back you MUST understand that Cagers cannot see you.. You have to make your decisions based on this FACT becuaes you can never trust them..

On divided highways I ALWAYS ride the open lane.. If one lane has more space between the cars thats where I will be.. I also avoid bottle necks - if I have to ride aggressively for a short ways to get into a hollow spot I do.. Or,,, if I am coming up to a bottle neck I will slow down and let the idiots hash it out and then blow by them to the next hollow spot..

The chatter about Semis brought up another one of my favorite sayings about trucks that I always told the kids,,, and that I live by.. NEVER play around near them,, they are the most dangerous pieces of equipment onthe road.. If your gonna pass, wait till you have an opening to do so that is complete and then do get it done - DONT get caught having to ride next to them for any distance.. NEVER cut them off in traffic and NEVER ride at night with your lights in their mirrors.. Dont follow in thier dust or rain mist cause you NEVER know what is gonna come off one - you cant trust them.. Go around them and leave them to their jobs..

On 3 lane highways or more I always use far left and avoid merging lanes.. Leave yourself an escape path..

Another thing I always do when turning is engage my blinkers and then hand signal with a flat hand showing to the traffic.. In heavy traffic when merging out I will motion from straight up to outward or vice versa in an attempt to be seen - I trust NO ONE but myself!!

I also use a small set of those little concave mirrors on my road bikes as well as my cars.. I use my mirrors and do headchecks when changing lanes or turning..

A longggggg time ago (1974) I was riding beside a friend on his new Honda 500 four.. He was sooooo proud of that scoot,, so proud in fact that he was so busy showing me how cool it was that he totally missed the discoloration of the pavement he was approaching.. I tried to point at it but he didnt get my message before he was on his face... What happened was truck from a local scrap yard had entered the road with a container on from a machine shop.. Inside the container were shavings from mills/drills/lathes and the like.. Of course,, the water coming fromthe container contained cutting coolant and it was REAL slippery... Tim didnt even have the chance to touch his brakes (it would have only sped him up anyway) before he was down!!! From that experience I learned to take pictures of the surface I am riding on too!!! Bluntely,, you cant trust the pavement either!!!

Speaking about judging surfaces,, does anyone else have the habit of watching the joint between pavement and shoulders on downhill roads?? I have found that you can sometimes predict gravel on the highway by the condition of the shoulders.. I absoulutly LOVE highspeed country road corners but blind corners at those highspeeds give me the jitters... I am always looking for signs of an UNTRUSTWORTHY road..

'Puc

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  • 2 years later...

intersection. I wave a thank y ou as I go through, and do the same flashing and thank you hand for left turners. It works all the time. I even nod to them in appreciation. That's just my way to keep the road rash tamped down and our image good and up.

 

I like the idea of running on high beam. I will try that. I also ride with the yellow, small police strobe LEDs that have adjustable flashes. I had it wired so I could change that setting to a slow flash in case of an amergency, and that take a second button switch to break and renew the ground. And I most always have it on a one-tow-three blip, pause, cycle. It really gets attention, even in the day. One is under the headlight and facing slightly up; the other two are on each side of the fariing, mid-way and away from the turn lights. Cost, $50 each, and about $120 wiring by my wrench, ... which most of you folks can do on your own.

 

I also run, of course with my running lights 24/7. I also wear a WHITE helmet, full face, DOT, soon with a Masonic emblem in front and back when I get it painted on. THAT will take a rainy day. I also wear a black or black and silver jacket, black gloves, and tan or very light brown pants. At first glance I WANT them to to think I am a cop. I will have no problems with this if I do NOT use hand signals to the boxes around me. Well, not exactly. Often, some of them will slow down, then I t urn the strobes off, and do a forward and friendly hand wave, they pick up, and life goes on.

 

Futher, thats to Squidley who sold me his lovely 86 VR (THANKS SQUIDLEY, ... AND LONNA) I have all kinds of lights on the back end. I do want to put one of my police yellow strobes on the back though.

 

I've enjoyed this older post. Thanks Don for keeping it on a while longer. And above all, I agree: We never ride THINKING the boxes can see us!

 

RIDE TO LIVE! And then ... sleep well at night: :draming:

 

JackZ:banana:

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  • 4 months later...

Basically if niceness were put into effect things could be different. Most everyone is in a hurry and gives me the feeling that they think they are the only important ones on the road. It is just alarming at what people do to cut line or make up a few seconds.. I wonder how they feel when they kill someone over 1 second..

 

just my two cents...

 

ps. they say riding a cycle is more tiring than driving a car, I feel it is more mental than driving a car due to the thngs we have to think about to keep safe.

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TWO LANE ROAD:

 

2) When approaching an intersection and you have a left turner coming toward you, stay in the left hand track. If you move over to the right hand track you are telling the cager that you are making a right turn, and guess what, he's going first, and right into your path cutting off all chance of escape. If you stay in the left track and he does turn in front of you, you have a chance of going behind him. However small that opening may be, it’s may be the only one you’ve got.

 

Gotta disagree with you on this on. By moving to the right track you are allowing yourself a few more feet of reaction time if they should start to move in front of you. Additionally people make the decision to go in front of traffic based on their perception of the ability to clear before that vehicle gets there. By moving to the right track you have increased the perception that they will NOT be able to clear before you get there and it will reduce the possibility of them going. Finally it will allow you the opportunity to go to the right which is what most people will expect you to do. If they do see you they will most likely hit the brakes. The additional road or parking lot surface they are turning in to/on to will provide you with additional surface to maneuver. If you are in the left track that means you will either A) hit them or B) cut behind them and quite possibly head on into the car that may be behind them and coming around.

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What a great thread. Agree with almost everything said. I ride with a number 1 rule "Ride to be seen" I try to place me and the bike in the most visible spot to be seen. 4 lane roads bother me the most, if in left lane with cages turning right, if I can't see cars at the intersection then they can't see me. Seems like that's when cagers like to pull out in front of the turning car. Trouble is they don't always stay in the right lane when they do it.

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I recently saw an interview with Rush drummer Neil Peart, who is an avid motorcyclist. I think it was in the AMA magazine. One thing that stuck with me was his lane positioning.

 

If he is riding on a two-lane (one lane each direction) highway as an independent vehicle (not following or being followed), he will ride in the right track with approaching traffic. His idea is that it allows approaching cars in platoon to see him earlier. That let's cars know that there is an on-coming vehicle and that it is not safe to pass.

 

Since adopting this strategy myself, I have seen on-coming cars drift out and look, see me, and drift back.

 

On the other hand, deer can be a danger on our rural roads. I stay in the left track unless there is oncoming traffic, because I want to give myself as much time and distance away from potential threats grazing along the road.

 

I carefully choose my tracks to increase my visibility and my reaction time. Good thread.

 

Dave

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