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Thread: Engine rebuild

  1. #1
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    Default Engine rebuild

    My engine (VR90) need to be rebuild. After inspecting the plane bearings I decided to replace them. The crankshaft looks fine, but the plane breaings are gone. So I started to snipe for the journal size markings on the crankcase, crankshaft, connecting rods and counter balancer. I found the stamped marks on the crankshaft, I found also the marks on the crankcase. But the ink marks on the counter balancer and those from the connecting rods are gone or unreadable.

    Can somebody offer an alternate method to determine the "color" of the plane bearings… something based on the measurements of the old bearings maybe. I'm somehow disperate as I don;t know how to handle this. Please help.

    Regards,
    Corneliu Tanasa

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    You could use as product called plastic gauge or plastigauge to determine the correct size...

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    do you have more details please?

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    Here's a link...

    http://www.plastigaugeusa.com/

    It's use is primarily for engine rebuilds but has other uses as well.

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    There are numbers engraved on the lower crankcase, 2 digits over 4 digits on one side and 2 on other. Left side lower 4 digits are crank main bearing size, upper 2 digits are balencer shaft sizes. Don't know what right side numbers are for. On the crank, there is a 4 digit number stamped on it and a 2 digit number, and a 2 digit number on the balancer shaft. Each rod will have a number on it, usually ink stamped on, not stamped or engraved, I think each starts with an 'E', but not always. Letter doesn't matter, only number.

    The case & rod numbers are 8 to 5 range, the balance & crank shaft are 0 to 4 range. subtract the shaft numbers from the case numbers to get the bearing sizes.

    See attached PDF cut from service manual, and a picture of bearing markings on case.

    Most bearings are in mid range, #'s 4 & 5. That is design tolerance factory tried to hit.

    Plastigage is a real chore on the block, Block halves need to be reassembled with sealer, then split to read plastigage. You need a known size bearing in place, so you know which way to go if reading is incorrect. Then do it again. Rod bearings, are much easier to plastigage.

    Almost all motors I have torn down have had color markings unreadable on bearing s. There is a thin strip on edge, in middle of arc on one side of bearing.

    The videos that are available for $20 for VMax motor, go into bearing selection in depth.

    Gary

    82448.pdf

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Freebird; 06-05-2016 at 08:07 AM. Reason: Corrected bad info on number positions

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    Thanks Gary. I hope to manage to get the info I need based on your help. If not I'll come back with pictures from the crankcase, shafts and rods.

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    Picture attached of numbers on balancer shaft & rod.

    E7 is number that is important.

    Easier to send pictures here than to reply to your PM, can't attach pictures in PM.

    Gary

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Freebird; 06-05-2016 at 08:08 AM.

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    Ok Gary, thanks. Today based on your pictures, I found the marks on the counter balancer. About the conecting rods, here are 3 pictures. It looks to read 9A7 but… and I'll wait for your opinion, is this the expected mark? Which is the digit to be considered?

    PS I have also the marks from the crankcase but I'll post them in a separate reply.

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    Gary, now about the crankcase. Here there are the two images. Please help me understand the meaning of them. Also I attached the crankshaft and counterbalancer. Thank you.

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    Bearing sizing has been corrected in this post, see thread 13 for clarification. Gary

    I gave you wrong info in 5th post above, I looked at engine video & am correcting it here & I will edit that post.

    Error was in case numbers engraved in block. Only the numbers on left side are needed for bearings, upper 2 numbers are balancer shaft, lower 4 numbers are crank mains. I don't know what right to numbers are for.

    Numbers shown below are what they appear to read to me looking at picture.

    1st line in 1st & 2nd group are case numbers. 2nd line is numbers on crank & balance shaft

    3rd line is subtracting 2nd line from 1st line and it is number of bearing needed for that journal.

    3rd group is showing 7's on rods, I am guessing 4th rod is a 7 as all rods I have seen are 7's and rods shown in video are all 7's. Rods are easier to machine than crank or shafts so they will tend to be more consistent. rods. Both journals on crank appear to be '3', there are 4 rods so you need 4 sets of bearings. Therefore all 3's in the crank rod row. Subtract 2nd line from 1st line and it is number of bearing needed

    All bearing sizes are read facing front of motor, left to right.

    Case/Mains 6 5 5 6
    Crank/Mains - 2 3 3 3
    Main Bearings 4 2 2 3 Left out

    Brown (size #3) on Outer Left main (J1) - Black (size #2) on Inner Left main (J2) - Black (size #2) on Inner Right main(J3) - Green (size #4) on Outer Right main (J4)

    Case/Balancer 7 6
    balancer - 2 2
    Balancer Bearings 5 4
    Green (size #4) on Left balance (J5) - Yellow (size #5) on right balance(J6)

    Rods 7 7 7 7
    Crank Rods - 3 3 3 3
    Rod bearings 4 4 4 4

    Numbers don't line up right when I post this so you will have to mentally line them up. I attached a screen capture of numbers formatted better.

    Gary

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    Last edited by dingy; 03-14-2014 at 08:40 PM. Reason: Added 7's to rod sizes

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    Thank you Gary. Based on the info you provided these were my results also. I think that I properly understand and now I am ready to order my spares

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    Gary, my bearings came from the manufacturer, so I started to look at the engine to replace the old ones with the new ones. Looking at the old bearings I found some traces from the old colors.

    The good news is that the old color matches the bearings ordered. The bad news is that I found in the engine the brown color (3) in the J4 position and the green (4) in the J1. From my understanding from the service manual is that the J1 is near the flywheel… is that correct?

    Also, the counter balancer the new and old color matches, but they looks to be reversed. From my understanding, the balancer bearings should be yellow (5) and green (4). Which one should be on the right of the engine and which one on the left? (see the pictures from my previous posts please about the marks: 7 6 on the case and 2 2 on the balancer). Is the (5) on the right of the engine and the (4) on the left?

    Thank you,

  13. #13
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    Default

    This is bad news and good news, once again I messed this up. I'm blaming old age and a weird way of numbering from Yamaha.

    The Bad news.

    The crankcase #'s are read in the order they are inscribed on block. However the markings on crank & balance are read opposite. Journal # 4 is first number on crankcase, far right journal viewed as though you were sitting on bike, but on the crankshaft it is the last number. Same with balancer shaft.

    The good news.

    Due to the way your numbers are numerically & order. You have the correct set of bearings ordered.


    All bearing sizes are read facing front of motor, left to right.

    Case/Mains 6 5 5 6
    Crank/Mains - 2 3 3 3
    Main Bearings 4 2 2 3

    Brown (size #3) on Outer Left main (J1) - Black (size #2) on Inner Left main (J2) - Black (size #2) on Inner Right main(J3) - Green (size #4) on Outer Right main (J4)

    Case/Balancer 7 6
    balancer - 2 2
    Balancer Bearings 5 4
    Green (size #4) on Left balance (J5) - Yellow (size #5) on right balance(J6)


    Rods are all the same.

    Rods 7 7 7 7
    Crank Rods - 3 3 3 3
    Rod bearings 4 4 4 4

    Call me if this does not seem right, I have done this several times and typing it out is confusing as heck. Number is in profile.

    A second look at it by Skydoc_17 or Squidley, 2 I can think of, would be great. I am going to send them both a PM to look at this.

    The videos make this much clearer, they are worth the money.

    Gary


    Last edited by dingy; 03-14-2014 at 08:41 PM.

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    Default Dingy Is NOW Correct!

    Dingy's post #13 is correct. I label the engine block before I remove it from the frame, and this helps me to keep oriented when the block is on the engine stand. The Videos that Dingy are talking about are worth their weight in gold because if you get disoriented during the tear down, or reassembly, you can pop in the DVD and SEE IT instead of reading it. Much better visualization, in my opinion. Remember, patience will net you a running engine!
    Good luck with this project!
    Earl
    Hidden Content

    I WOULD RATHER RIDE MY BIKE TO THE LIMIT, THAN HAVE MY BIKE LIMIT MY RIDING. BUT THAT'S JUST ME.Hidden Content

  15. #15
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    Default

    Gary, I'll double check tomorrow the way the main bearings were installed, but myself I figured out exactly the same positions as you mentioned for both main and balancer bearings.
    The odd thing is that old the J1 and J4 bearings were installed reversed… and also the balancer bearings were reversed also.

    As I'm not the first owner of this bike, I assume someone worked inside the engine and messed up with the bearings. The fact is that J1 and J4 were almost destroyed. See the attached pictures of the down half of the bearings. The inversion of J1 with J4 I think it might explain somehow the destruction of the main bearings. I'll double check also the wear of the balancer bearings.

    Another thing is that the crankcase has been hit by the crankshaft. See the fourth picture. And now I have at that point about 0.2mm clearance between the crankshaft and crankcase. Do you think this should be addressed also or I can live with this without any trouble?

    I'll try to call you tomorrow after I'll double check how the bearings were previously installed for a final clarification. Thank you.

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    Last edited by Freebird; 06-07-2016 at 02:24 AM.

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