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Stator vs Voltage Regulator vs Bad Battery


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Hey all you First Gen Gurus,

 

Last fall I noticed what I thought at the time were indicators of a bad stator on my '83 Venture. I was riding it and noticed that when I would turn on my turn signals the voltage needle would fluctuate each time the turn signals flashed and also when the radiator fan would come on the voltage would dip from 14 - 16 volts down to about 10.

 

Since it was time to put it in the barn (and also because a mechanic told me replacing the stator would require pulling the engine and a huge labor bill) I decided to deal with it this spring.

 

Over the winter I kept a trickle charger on the battery and started it up every few weeks and it always seemed like it was putting out about 12 - 14 volts as long as it was running at idle. Since I wasnt riding it, i didnt see any of the earlier mentioned behaviour.

 

When I got it out this spring suddenly the battery seemed to be dead, the voltage meter is at the bottom of the scale even after the charger has been on for 2 days at 2 amps. So now Im thinking dead cell in a reasonably new Deka Gell battery.

 

The big question is...can a battery thats going bad make a non-techie boy like me think its the stator? Or is it more like the stator is bad and now the battery is as well? Or could it be the voltage regulator not functioning and not charging the battery or sending the correct voltages to the lights/instruments?

 

Any advice or opinions would be welcome......Im also trying to decide if its time to put the old girl up for sale as a parts bike or fixer upper.

 

Thanks! George0fthejungle

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If you had the battery on a charger for the winter you may have cooked a good battery to death. A trickle charger is not the same as a battery maintainer. The charger can destroy the battery over time.

 

First off you need a digital volt meter. Not the dash analog meter.

Hook the digital voltmeter up across the battery and check the voltage with the bike running at 2500-3000 rpm. It should be real close to 14V, +/-.5V is close enough. If you have this then the stator and regulator are most likely fine.

 

Take the battery in to have it load tested. Many shops and stores will do this for free.

 

There are many tests to be run to determine the actual problem.

One step at a time.

 

It is very good that you came here before having that "mechanic" actually do anything to your bike.

Whoever told you that to replace the stator requires removal of the engine and big $$$$ is either a liar and a crook or does not have a clue about these bikes.

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Hey all you First Gen Gurus,

 

Last fall I noticed what I thought at the time were indicators of a bad stator on my '83 Venture. I was riding it and noticed that when I would turn on my turn signals the voltage needle would fluctuate each time the turn signals flashed and also when the radiator fan would come on the voltage would dip from 14 - 16 volts down to about 10. (To me that indicates a bad battery or poor connections at the battery).

 

Since it was time to put it in the barn (and also because a mechanic told me replacing the stator would require pulling the engine (find another mechanic. Replacing the stator requires pulling an engine cover, not the engine) and a huge labor bill) I decided to deal with it this spring.

 

Over the winter I kept a trickle charger (a "trickle charger"? or a "maintainer"? The trickle charger will ruin a gel or AGM battery because it never shuts off. A maintainer will cycle on and off to "maintain" the battery voltage, but not overcharge) on the battery and started it up every few weeks and it always seemed like it was putting out about 12 - 14 volts as long as it was running at idle. Since I wasn't riding it, i didn't see any of the earlier mentioned behavior.

 

When I got it out this spring suddenly the battery seemed to be dead, the voltage meter is at the bottom of the scale even after the charger has been on for 2 days at 2 amps. So now Im thinking dead cell in a reasonably new Deka Gell battery (a gel? Or an AGM? Not the same.)

 

The big question is...can a battery that's going bad make a non-techie boy like me think its the stator? (Yes) Or is it more like the stator is bad and now the battery is as well? Or could it be the voltage regulator not functioning and not charging the battery or sending the correct voltages to the lights/instruments?

 

Any advice or opinions would be welcome......I'm also trying to decide if its time to put the old girl up for sale as a parts bike or fixer upper. (Only you can answer that question, but in my opinion, she will be good for many more.)

 

Thanks! George0fthejungle

See my comments in red, George.

And Jeff beat me to the punch. I was formulating my reply while he was answering. So don't think I was second guessing you Jeff. LOL

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If you were getting 12 to 14 volts at idle, you are probably doing a lot better than most 1st gen Ventures out there. It is also normal to get a big drop when putting the signal lights or the brakes on. I agree with the others, you have probably ruined a good DEKA battery. In fact, most DEKA batteries will hold their charge through the winter.

I suspect you probably don't have a problem. Just do some research on here and you will know a lot more than your ex-mechanic. He was probably thinking you had an early Gold Wing.

RandyA

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If you had the battery on a charger for the winter you may have cooked a good battery to death. A trickle charger is not the same as a battery maintainer. The charger can destroy the battery over time.

 

It is very good that you came here before having that "mechanic" actually do anything to your bike.

Whoever told you that to replace the stator requires removal of the engine and big $$$$ is either a liar and a crook or does not have a clue about these bikes.

 

:sign yeah that:

 

The DEKA AGM batteries have a long, long storage life. They can survive long storage periods with barely dropping a few 10th of a volt. If you had a trickle charger on it all winter, it may be fired.

 

As far as the mechanics opinion.......RUN and RUN far from that one. Considering how many of us have changed stators on the center stand with basic tools in our garages I think we can get you through that process if you go for the replacement if you find you need to do that.

 

But the battery should be your starting point and with a multimeter you can find any other issues that need to be addressed.

 

That analog volt gauge in the dash is not a reliable souce of useful information when finding electrical problems.

 

Mike

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Thank you for all of the replies! To clarify I did not leave the trickle charger connected continuously. Once the weather got really cold the battery was having trouble cranking the bike so I would put the trickle charger on for about 24 hours and then it would start fine. I would run it till the bike warmed up thoroughly and seemed to have a good charge.

 

The 2 day charge attempt described in my first post was just recently after the volt meter showed 0 when I put in the key.

 

So.....if Im hearing you guys right, my first step should be to try a new battery and test across the terminals with a voltmeter, looking for 12 - 14 across the terminals. And I guess if I do need a stator, I need to look for a better mechanic who can remove the radiator and engine cover rather than removing the whole engine. Sheesh! Maybe he was just telling me he didnt want to do it so he scared me away with a huge price tag.

 

I really appreciate all the contributors here and the way the explain things to those of use who are wrench challenged! Thank you!

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And the "tester" used at some parts stores (my local NAPA for one) seem to leave a lot to be desired. I gave up on them ( a few years ago) after a second battery from them "tested fine" but was junk in my GS. Bought a ew battery from another parts store in town and had no problem after. 3 years on that one now.

Did I mention in my other battery post that my local Advantage Auto hooked me up with a perfect size and configuration battery for my 86 Venture for $70? (Exide)

Rob did offer to get me the "OEM" part number for $130. I passed on that one.

:7_6_3[1]:

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Start the testing with what you have. Never start trouble shooting by spending money, unless you are spending on test equipment. If you do not have a digital volt meter, you really need one. You can get a cheap one for under $10 that will do what you need.

 

Take the battery in to a battery plus or autozone or similar place and have it tested. The battery must be freshly charged for them to test it.

 

If the battery is really showing zero volts after being charged, then it is toast. Check it with a volt meter, not the dash meter.

 

Are you sure that you hooked up the charger the right way?

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Take the battery in to a battery plus or autozone or similar place and have it tested. The battery must be freshly charged for them to test it.

 

I agree with Jeff here, if your battery is a little bid heading south it will screw your charging capacity all up. Charge the battery up to full and have it load tested, thats the only way your going to know if the battery is good.

 

Check the 3 wires coming from the stator into the wiring harness. Many times the plugs will get some dirt in them and start to corrode and get hot, this will prematurely kill the stator over time. Many members will remove that plug and solder the wires together to have optimal charging capacity.

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"because a mechanic told me replacing the stator would require pulling the engine and a huge labor bill"

 

This means the guy quoting you has a boat he is making payments on and is hoping you will agree to make a payment or two for him, and he knows absolutely nothing at all about the bike. On a older goldwing it's a remove the engine affair.

 

Anyone that says a stator replacement is a "huge labor bill" needs to be ran away from. A competent shop can do a stator replacement in less than 3 hours of labor. If I can do it on the floor of my garage in 6 without the right tools and have never done it before in 90 degree heat stopping several times to go back into air conditioning and drinking beer, they can do it in less than 3 on a lift with all the right tools.

Edited by timgray
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  • 8 years later...

Read through this thread and here is my trouble. Hope you guys can help and help soon because we were leaving next in a week for a long trip with the bike.

 

I have noticed the voltage dropping substantially while riding when I hit the breaks or turn on a load like the heated grips or jacket. I pulled the lithium Ion battery out and it showed fully charged after we got home from a long ride today. I have a carbon pile load tester that showed it to be good after putting 130 amp pull for 15-20 seconds. I put a second fully charge 15L battery I had from another bike. It is an AGM battery. I put the digital volt meter on the battery and it showed 12.6 volts. I started the bike and ran it up to 3000 rpms and applied the breaks to light the tail light and place a load on the system. The voltage dropped down to 12.36 slowly over a maybe a minute. The voltage without a load other than the running bike and LED head light was 13.82. That was running it at 3500 rpms and it took a minute or so for it to climb up that high.

 

So what to check or replace next. I already went ahead and ordered a new XTL 18L AGM battery that should be here next friday. One question about that is how tall it that battery. I have my ignition module relocated on top of the battery box and the new fuse block on top of that. This all fits under the cover. The battery I put in to test the system is pretty tall and I am hoping the 18L is not as tall.

 

So do I just buy an new used voltage regulator from Pinwal and hope it gets here by next weekend or just get both the regulator and stator.

 

The bike is ride able now but I expect it will be cold next week and I will want to run my jacket without fear of killing the battery.

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Did some digging and found both the plug with the 5 wires (2 red and 2 black and one brown) and the three wire plug all white.

 

I read through the shop manual and it clearly says I should have 14 volts and I do not. So it looks like voltage regulator or stater. The test procedure was just confusing as far as where to check resistance. I guess we are in for some more reading of old threads.

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If you had the battery on a charger for the winter you may have cooked a good battery to death. A trickle charger is not the same as a battery maintainer. The charger can destroy the battery over time.

 

First off you need a digital volt meter. Not the dash analog meter.

Hook the digital voltmeter up across the battery and check the voltage with the bike running at 2500-3000 rpm. It should be real close to 14V, +/-.5V is close enough. If you have this then the stator and regulator are most likely fine.

 

Take the battery in to have it load tested. Many shops and stores will do this for free.

 

There are many tests to be run to determine the actual problem.

One step at a time.

 

It is very good that you came here before having that "mechanic" actually do anything to your bike.

Whoever told you that to replace the stator requires removal of the engine and big $$$$ is either a liar and a crook or does not have a clue about these bikes.

 

According to this post can I assume my stator and regulator are good. I pulled the plugs apart and tried to clean up contacts with cleaner and a dental tool. They did not look that bad. I guess I could try to check resistance across the block connector?

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The stator puts out 3 phase power it is common to loose one leg and be with OK voltage but weak on amps.

OK you have already addressed the battery.

 

Here is a step by step guide for testing the stator and Rectifier.

https://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?81297-Testing-for-a-Battery-not-Charging

 

Thanks this is just what I needed.

 

Couple of questions.

 

Where are guys finding new voltage regulators and is Buckey performance still rebuilding staters or are they still in business. There is a local shop that I think will rebuild many alternators. Are used ones easy enough to find. I checked Pinwall and could not get search results to pull up anything. I suspect I will have to call them monday if I need something.

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I ran through the test procedure and unfortunately my digital meter must not be able to measure these readings because if they were I don't think the system would be working.

 

The diode tests showed no reading open or low resistance on the 2K scale. When I put it on the 20k or 2M scale it showed something 127 but on the lower settings is showed nothing. Not open or any reading. Even on test 6 where is should have read "open" I got reading with out testing across the R/R so the meter does work but it again showed nothing across the R/R.

 

The stater test showed .8 ohms across all leads.

 

I either need a new meter or a new R/R. I think I will order the new R/R and see what happens. If that does not improve things I try a new stater or rewinding this one or some other replacement.

 

For now it is working just not as well as I think it should and at 92k miles maybe it is best just to replace and rebuild the critical components. And now that I have my new windshields I think I be riding one of these bike for a while.

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I ran through the test procedure and unfortunately my digital meter must not be able to measure these readings because if they were I don't think the system would be working.

 

The diode tests showed no reading open or low resistance on the 2K scale. When I put it on the 20k or 2M scale it showed something 127 but on the lower settings is showed nothing. Not open or any reading. Even on test 6 where is should have read "open" I got reading with out testing across the R/R so the meter does work but it again showed nothing across the R/R.

 

The stater test showed .8 ohms across all leads.

 

I either need a new meter or a new R/R. I think I will order the new R/R and see what happens. If that does not improve things I try a new stater or rewinding this one or some other replacement.

 

For now it is working just not as well as I think it should and at 92k miles maybe it is best just to replace and rebuild the critical components. And now that I have my new windshields I think I be riding one of these bike for a while.

 

I know I am late to this game and you probably got er all back together and are out CTFW now :fingers-crossed-emo but thought I would toss in the :2cents: I have left over from our trip to :stirthepot: things up a little..

I am still sorting out my left over, half used up stators/regulators from my parts bikes and can tell you that I am always amazed at how the heating up and burning off of the laminate in the windings can effect stator output. A good way I have found to know for certain that the stator is dieing is to watch its output as the bike warms up.. If the response to throttle on the volt meter gets sluggish when hot or when warmed up and a blinker is turned on I generally know I am gonna have to try another one of my parts stators.. I did actually buy a Ricks Stator for one of mine once and it worked great.. I am thinking I only paid 40 bucks for it brand new years ago, thinking they cant be much more than that now,, high output would be more I am sure. I am also amazed at how poorly built/designed the connector on the stator to regulator harness is on my 1st Gens and have always ran them hardwired.. I had one actually get so bad that it allowed the stator wires to contact each other and it cost me a stator out in Texas.

For testing the regulator I always like to look for AC voltage appearing up at the battery and also for output about at the battery above 14.5 volts DC.. It is the regulators job to control that so any sign of either can only be the regulator in line of thinkin..

When I am done sorting thru my junk parts (this last one I swap in I got another 20k miles out of and it was half burned when I put it into use - I may be stuck buying new too this time) stators I will jump on ebay and grab a new aftermarket - I am pretty sure both stators and regs are still available there for not much money.. The swap out is simple and straight forward. Just use new gaskets, make sure you keep both the stator cover and mid gear cover bolts sorted and you note where the copper washer goes on the mid gear cover. Also use new gaskets..

I also didnt notice the year of your bike GeoBob? if its a 83/84,, maybe double check and make sure it has the upgraded stator splash plate and crank bolt orfice with cleaner wire stickin out of it..

Here is a short video of mine that may help or maybe just entertainment if you want someone to laugh at while doing yours..

 

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With your meter, the exact reading of0.8 ohms is hard for inexpensive meters to do accuratly. It is more important that all 3 readings are the same or at least very close to the same.

 

Simple test with the meter. with the meter set at the lowest ohms setting, touch the leads together. You will likely get a number shows up, when you use the meter you will have to subtract this number from every reading you take to get closer to a real number. also when the leads are not touching anything you should not be showing any reading. If you are getting a reading with the leads not connected to anything you may have a bad meter that will not work for this job.

 

If you meter is working correctly and If in your test from a stator lead to ground with the meter on the highest scale, any reading is an indication of a stator on the way out.

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Thanks guys the video was very helpful. I am going to be close enough to Pinwal's cycle salvage today to stop by. Obviously I can just get a back up used R/R and stater from a Venture but I was curious if parts from another Yamaha would work better or might be more readily available. Any suggestions.

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Thanks guys the video was very helpful. I am going to be close enough to Pinwal's cycle salvage today to stop by. Obviously I can just get a back up used R/R and stater from a Venture but I was curious if parts from another Yamaha would work better or might be more readily available. Any suggestions.

 

You are pretty much stuck with the stator from a First Generation Venture, BUT many have incorporated the newer R/R from a FJR or even a Second Generation Venture.

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Maybe i missed the tips on a higher out put stater and or R/R. Earl pointed me to Rick’s electronics stater and a new R/R but Ricks R/R was $100 more than the one he showed me off of ebay. I am doing this swap after my trip so I have time to do some looking

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  • 3 weeks later...

I got through the trip without any trouble. I did have to bump start it one morning after running with the vest and grips on for the last hour or so of the ride the day before. It is clear the system is not keeping up with more than running the lights and the bike and charging the battery. I put the new battery in yesterday and ran it with the grips on. It did not kill the battery but I still have only 13.89 volts while running at 2500 to 3000 rpms.

 

I am convinced that a new R/R is in order along with the stater. Earl said his high out put modified stater got too hot and failed so I assume we are all back to just picking up one of the standard aftermarket ones. I looked up a site that sells Rick's electronics and the stater's are about the same price. His R/R is like $100 more than the units sold on ebay ect. I am undecided on the R/R. I kind of like the idea of the alternative ones others have used. Anyone have a good argument for either, I am listening.

 

Also notice a more significant oil leak under the left side of the motor. I suspect it is the output shaft seal or something under there. That is subject for another thread.

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  • 3 weeks later...

After getting home from a cold ride this evening and not being able to run my heated jacket and hand grips while the wife was nice and toasty on her ride I broke down and ordered the HO Ricks stator off of Ricks Electronics site and a Shindengen FH020AA Mosfet R/R from Roadstercycle.  I will post a follow up once I get the parts and install them.  

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