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Test of the full line of FirstGear heated gear - wattage question - please help


VentureFar

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My good friends at ultimatemotorcycling.com have graced my door with a full box of heated gear. socks, pantliner, jacket, glove liners and gloves for review.

 

2007 2nd gen Royal Star Midnight Venture

 

I know from reading here that if I turn all of it on at one time I will end up cold on the side of the road. Does anyone know the "real" excess available wattage with NOTHING aftermarket turned on? My brother @cowpuc do you know?

Thanks for any guidance.

VentureFar...

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My good friends at ultimatemotorcycling.com have graced my door with a full box of heated gear. socks, pantliner, jacket, glove liners and gloves for review.

 

2007 2nd gen Royal Star Midnight Venture

 

I know from reading here that if I turn all of it on at one time I will end up cold on the side of the road. Does anyone know the "real" excess available wattage with NOTHING aftermarket turned on? My brother cowpuc do you know?

Thanks for any guidance.

VentureFar...

 

Don't know the number, but....

 

First, do you have a Heat-Troller? It will help as it regulates the power (PWM) to the various articles.

 

From the Warm and Safe site (who I believe makes the FirstGear stuff), the jacket is 90-100 Watts, pants liner about 50W. Glove liners are 22W for the pair. Socks are 9W each. Heated gloves are about 20W each.

 

Turn off your auxillary (running) lights should gain you 35-ish watts each (70 total).

 

I have run an older 90W jacket liner and full gloves with a Heat-Troller - along with aux lights - without any difficulty. Suggest you add a voltage meter to see if it is draining beyond charging capacity.

 

RR

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Don't know the number, but....

 

First, do you have a Heat-Troller? It will help as it regulates the power (PWM) to the various articles.

 

From the Warm and Safe site (who I believe makes the FirstGear stuff), the jacket is 90-100 Watts, pants liner about 50W. Glove liners are 22W for the pair. Socks are 9W each. Heated gloves are about 20W each.

 

Turn off your auxillary (running) lights should gain you 35-ish watts each (70 total).

 

I have run an older 90W jacket liner and full gloves with a Heat-Troller - along with aux lights - without any difficulty. Suggest you add a voltage meter to see if it is draining beyond charging capacity.

 

RR

 

These new ones have individual button controllers switches on the unit. Socks and pants are together for low Med and high. Jacket and gloves are separate buttoncontrollers. I think the glove liners are with the jacket.

 

VentureFar...

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My good friends at ultimatemotorcycling.com have graced my door with a full box of heated gear. socks, pantliner, jacket, glove liners and gloves for review.

 

2007 2nd gen Royal Star Midnight Venture

 

I know from reading here that if I turn all of it on at one time I will end up cold on the side of the road. Does anyone know the "real" excess available wattage with NOTHING aftermarket turned on? My brother cowpuc do you know?

Thanks for any guidance.

VentureFar...

 

I'm game to test some for you :smile5:. It's getting a little chilly here in Houston. Low of 40 the next couple of days :snow2:.

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I have the official draw for the FirstGear I have to test - these are at HIGH setting

 

Jacket at 75w

Pant 38w

Socks 8.2 w for pair

Gloves or glove liner 14.4w for pair.

 

They have a jacket that is 45w for those with low capacity charging systems.

 

so cowpuck does a 2nd gen have enough spare watts for 135.6?

 

Inquiring minds want to know....

 

fyi with the textile gear i currently own and underlayers I am comfortable down to 38 degrees - cool but comfortable. So I am interested to see how heated gear affects this. I am now in Portland so I have access to temps below 38 where I didn't when living in Los Angeles.

 

VentureFar...

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WOWZY WOW WOW WOW,,,, youuuu bandit brother of mine!!! Glad to see/hear your still in the testing/review business and those folks at Ultimate are treating you so well!!

Stock bike, no add on's, no high output stator or nothing fancy like that,,, I am guessing that if you stay under 80 to maybe 100 watts of additional output demand you should be ok.. This may sound enemic but actually, the RSV's, IMHO, come from Mom Yam with not much room for excess in OEM form.. Far superior to my MK1's but still enemic with a max output of about 350 watts.. To put it in perspective,,, Yamaha DOUBLED that output on the new SVTC (by running dual alternators though,, which cost in HP loss from the original 113 inch mtr) and rightfully so as, you are discovering, the stator output has always been the Ventures soft point (again, IMHO).

Knowing your love for CTFW and how spoiled you are with Ultimate letting you keep all the goodies they send for testing (if they start doing this with bikes - PLEASE remember who your favorite VR brother is if/when your new garage gets to the over flow point :guitarist 2:) ,, you may want to consider an upgrade to a high output Stator and regulator so you know your covered if you choose to run all the goodies at once.

Hope this helps @VentureFar and CONGRATS on the early Christmas presents from you favorite new brother and others at Ultimate!!

On a side note,,, you gonna get a shot at testing the new Indian Challenger? Rumor has it at over 100 horsies at the rear wheel!! Could be a handful of a Stallion if it is :guitarist 2::guitarist 2:

 

20 degree's and snowing like crazy here.. Tip sends her love and is taking EXCELLENT care of me as my hibernation mode is kicking in strong.. Got another grandkid coming in California in February and one coming here in Michigan in Jan:happy34:... :bighug:to you and yours!!

Puc

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You won't be using all power at once. I have Gerbing and mostly run with gloves on medium and jacket on high (off and on due to it gets very warm).:scorched: Never run socks or pant liners.

 

:farmer:

 

remember I am doing a ride report evaluation does I need to test it all even if I end up a burned French fry.

also they are getting me the wattages for low medium and high settings.

 

VentureFar...

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As far as I can tell from the manual...the nominal charging output is 30 amps at 14 volts at 5,000 rpm. So that is the max the bike will put out. Now subtract the engine, headlight and other lights that are on while engine is running. What's left is what you have available for the heating system.

 

Now you should also take into account, not all heated pieces will be drawing current concurrently...and...that even if they do...a few minutes discharging won't hurt anything...as when the heated garments cycle off, they charging system will bring that battery back up.

 

What you do have to be concerned with is drawing more than 30 amps at one time....as that is the main fuse size...so carry an extra, or 2, with you just in case.

 

Rough output figures:

 

Output: 30 amps at 12/14 volts is around 300 watts. Figure 10 watts per amp is close enough for this situation.

 

The engine/ignition fuse is rated at 10 amps...or about 100 watts. Doubt it uses that much...as the draw is really the coils. I don't know what else may be on that circuit as the carb heaters are on a separate fuse (10 amps...and they could draw that much if all 4 heaters are on during a cold day).

 

The signal system has a 15 amps or about 150 watts...but again, even if that includes all the rest of the lighting except headlight...they all won't be on at the same time. Add up the bulbs you have that are not LED and that should tell you what your signal circuit is drawing. LEDS don't count for current draw...they use to little...unless you are running some strong LEDs in your brake circuit!

 

The headlight fuse is 15 amps...but the bulb draws about 55 watts (6 amps) on low beam. So there is reserve there as well.

 

The fan is 10 amps.....I doubt it draws that much too...

 

The starter can draw 180 amps momentarily, so don't have the gear on during start.

 

That's as far as I can go not knowing your scoot. Do the math and you should be good to go with the result.

Besides, during testing, you "could" test each unit separately....to judge the effectiveness of the unit in test. In that case, no worries at all.

 

My guess is you'll have about 100 watts to play with....until you hit the turn signals.

FWIW,

david

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As far as I can tell from the manual...the nominal charging output is 30 amps at 14 volts at 5,000 rpm. So that is the max the bike will put out. Now subtract the engine, headlight and other lights that are on while engine is running. What's left is what you have available for the heating system.

 

Now you should also take into account, not all heated pieces will be drawing current concurrently...and...that even if they do...a few minutes discharging won't hurt anything...as when the heated garments cycle off, they charging system will bring that battery back up.

 

What you do have to be concerned with is drawing more than 30 amps at one time....as that is the main fuse size...so carry an extra, or 2, with you just in case.

 

Rough output figures:

 

Output: 30 amps at 12/14 volts is around 300 watts. Figure 10 watts per amp is close enough for this situation.

 

The engine/ignition fuse is rated at 10 amps...or about 100 watts. Doubt it uses that much...as the draw is really the coils. I don't know what else may be on that circuit as the carb heaters are on a separate fuse (10 amps...and they could draw that much if all 4 heaters are on during a cold day).

 

The signal system has a 15 amps or about 150 watts...but again, even if that includes all the rest of the lighting except headlight...they all won't be on at the same time. Add up the bulbs you have that are not LED and that should tell you what your signal circuit is drawing. LEDS don't count for current draw...they use to little...unless you are running some strong LEDs in your brake circuit!

 

The headlight fuse is 15 amps...but the bulb draws about 55 watts (6 amps) on low beam. So there is reserve there as well.

 

The fan is 10 amps.....I doubt it draws that much too...

 

The starter can draw 180 amps momentarily, so don't have the gear on during start.

 

That's as far as I can go not knowing your scoot. Do the math and you should be good to go with the result.

Besides, during testing, you "could" test each unit separately....to judge the effectiveness of the unit in test. In that case, no worries at all.

 

My guess is you'll have about 100 watts to play with....until you hit the turn signals.

FWIW,

david

 

This is great info. Thank you so much.

so the carb heaters take 100watts! I see a lot of old threads where people turn off the carb heaters. Since I will be riding on extremely cold days - ergo the heated clothing, how important are the carb heaters? don't' they keep warm by the engine heat? How you do disconnect them?

 

I do have a full led board ( not looking at it but probably 50 leds) for my brake lite.

 

Looks like to be safe I can run the jacket on low, pants, socks and gloves on medium- that is will keep me UNDER 100w - they are going to get me what the LOW MED and HI setting Wattages are.

 

I will be coming directly off the battery. Can the the main fuse blow if I am connected to the battery? ( the battery connections that come with the heated gear have an inline fuse)

If the main fuse can blow, where is it located so I can find it when I blow it ( and to replace it:-)

 

OH and I should only use hand signals and definitely not turn on the emergency flashers......

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Carb Heaters:

I doubt the carb heaters take that much juice either.....but who knows. I would guess, 2 amps each leaving about 2 amps, 20 watts available. Problem is for me...I don't know when the heaters are on? I would have to assume that MAYBE they come on to help warm up the bike right after start, or MAYBE come on when temps go below freezing to keep the carbs from icing up...but nothing's been said that I can recall or have read...about them. You could just pull the fuse and not worry about them.

 

BUT....if you are....Running off the battery, you should be good. The charging circuit will charge as much as it can and that's it. It should be robust enough to handle it's full output for a reasonably long period of time. In cool weather, I doubt the regulator or stator would get that hot...but again, who knows?

 

Your tail light/brake light is probably like my board....less than 10 watts on brake....so no issue there either.

 

To be honest, if I were in your shoes...I would test each item at all three temps individually to see how well they work in the given outdoor weather you are riding in. Then step them in together to see how the system works on a typical touring scoot. That way you get the item impressions and efficiency as well as the overall usability of the entire heating system on the bike. Let's face it, a manufacturer needs to know if their system draws to much power to be usable for the average Joe out there...

 

So try to blow it up after you've tested each piece. Worse case is you will blow fuse somewhere. But probably not..coming directly off the battery.

 

The main fuse is located lower left behind the passenger foot rest. Drop foot rest down and pull the panel.

 

For grins, pull your manual and copy the pages listing where the 3 locations for fuses are and which is which.

 

Enjoy the ride....!

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...

Here is my review.

watching my volt meter I was at 12.9v -13.1v with everything on HIGH. Going down the freeway.

at a stop light with everything on low I saw 12.1v and revved the engine until the light changed. @cowpuc how did I do?

 

https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2020/01/10/firstgear-heated-motorcycle-apparel-review-jacket-pants-gloves-and-socks/

 

VentureFar...

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Here is my review.

watching my volt meter I was at 12.9v -13.1v with everything on HIGH. Going down the freeway.

at a stop light with everything on low I saw 12.1v and revved the engine until the light changed. cowpuc how did I do?

 

https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2020/01/10/firstgear-heated-motorcycle-apparel-review-jacket-pants-gloves-and-socks/

 

VentureFar...

 

Well written and complete review. Seems you really like the vest and not the liners.

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I was thoroughly impressed with the jacket liner, pants liner, socks and the puffer vest.

The heated gloves and glove liners worked but not like I had hoped. Personally I have textile non heated clothes that keep me comfortable at 37 degrees but my hands freeze. The heated gear wasn’t just keeping me comfortable, they were making me feel warm and cozy. I could only use the low settings since they were so efficient.

I am definitely a convert to heated gear.

VentureFar...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Here is my review.

watching my volt meter I was at 12.9v -13.1v with everything on HIGH. Going down the freeway.

at a stop light with everything on low I saw 12.1v and revved the engine until the light changed. cowpuc how did I do?

 

https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2020/01/10/firstgear-heated-motorcycle-apparel-review-jack -pants-gloves-and-socks/

 

VentureFar...

 

Another excellent review from the best of the best IMHO!! As always, very thorough - great detail and, as always - accurately written = from a

riders standpoint (the same kind of people who actually use the information) as it should be!!

Concerning the voltage drop at idle you experienced my brother.. I am sure you probably already know this but others reading here may not so I will toss in my backyard mechanican :2cents: and wait for the experts to chime in and correct me if I am wrong. Your drop in voltage at the light was actually normal - in other words - your scoot would have done that even without the draw on its system of the heated clothing. The reason the voltage falls off at an idle is because the Alternator (Stator) is no longer tossing high voltage thru the Voltage Regulator during low R's and at that point you are reading actual Battery voltage. It is Wattage (which is actually a measurement of Amperage) draw that is the concern as that is what is being used. The volt meter is a good monitor for stator/alternator/regulator concerns because it will tell you whether or not the charging system itself is functioning properly. An example: When spun up off an idle, the alternator will produce high voltage AC current - if the regulator is not functioning properly you will see high voltage (above 14.5 volts DC) on the volt meter or, if it is no longer producing AC current your volt meter will stay at battery Voltage and not change when you rev er up.

You did a SPLENDID job of explaining your concern with Wattage requirements (IMHO) on what you were testing in the article my brother and your mentioning it there is something that a LOT of Bike rag writers would have missed. From an end users perspective, again - my :2cents: , its precision input on stuff like that that makes a difference between a real biker writer and the typical "reviewer" of bikes and bike paraphanalia..

Bottom line Neal = EXCELLENT PIECE OF WORK MY FRIEND = EXCELLENT!! "Ultimate" is fortunate to have you onboard!

 

Love ya

Puc

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