2020 venture announced in Canada

I like the blue...

Now Freebird is going to have to trade his to get a black one!

Jeez the price of that thing! $32,299 plus pdi, freight & taxes. So in here in BC that's an absolute minimum of $36,174! For a motorcycle!

Jeez the price of that thing! $32,299 plus pdi, freight & taxes. So in here in BC that's an absolute minimum of $36,174! For a motorcycle!

I think that the listed price was in Canadian dollars (something like 24K USD). Of course, I haven't spent that much total on all the bikes I've owned over 50 years! Never owned a car that cost that much.

By the way, isn't this year 2019? What's with the 2020 date?

zag

Other than paint, did they change anything?

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Jeez the price of that thing! $32,299 plus pdi, freight & taxes. So in here in BC that's an absolute minimum of $36,174! For a motorcycle!

Mike, that’s a Canadian advertisement so that price of $32.299 is in Candian dollars, not USD.

Other than paint, did they change anything?

 

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I’ll have to do some more digging Daniel to let you know. Heated passenger grips (accessory) is upgraded. No longer just a handle wrap but integrated into the handle as it should be. It also says compatible with 2018 models, so now I have to get those.

I think that the listed price was in Canadian dollars (something like 24K USD). Of course, I haven't spent that much total on all the bikes I've owned over 50 years! Never owned a car that cost that much.

 

By the way, isn't this year 2019? What's with the 2020 date?

zag

Mike, that’s a Canadian advertisement so that price of $32.299 is in Candian dollars, not USD.

Yes it is Canadian $ but that's still one helluva lot for a bike! & then freight, pdi & taxes on top & it probably says 2020 'cause we probably wont be getting it in Canada till then!

Now Freebird is going to have to trade his to get a black one!

It's hard to tell from the pictures but I don't think it is black. I think it is the same gray that I have. Either way, I won't be trading. I'm actually very happy with the gray.

As for the price, I'm not sure about Canada but in the USA you can buy them much less than suggested list. I bought mine at a huge discount off sticker.

Don, you got the deal of the century on yours...

Yes, I'll admit that it was a pretty sweet deal for a new model bike.

Yes, I'll admit that it was a pretty sweet deal for a new model bike.

Yes it was! And with the announcement in Canada of a 2020 model, and I believe imminently here in the U.S. you will probably see these “fire sale” deals stop. People who have been holding out for it to keep going lower are gonna miss the “jump on” point just like a stock market rally. I’d expect to see the overall value of this bike stabilize now that the false flag idea of a “one year wonder” has been laid to rest. Just my take.

There's a 2018 red near me for 22k new. Best price I've seen next to Don's.

There's a 2018 red near me for 22k new. Best price I've seen next to Don's.

I've also seen several of them advertised in Georgia for 22k range.

22k US, 32k Cn, going by HD prices, will be about 40k+ NZ

Just talking to my Yamaha dealer yesterday. They are third generation owners in this store, and I was talking to the lady who was second generation, came back to help while the kids were on vacation. She worked there for 50 years and keeps up with Yamaha, knows a TON of people.

She said that for the USA, the 2020 is still up in the air for Yamaha. They just don't know. Canada, fine, USA, not so much. Too many leftover 2018's on the floor. Yamaha is now trying to help, with a $2500 June rebate on any Eluder. (She didn't have any Transcontinentals so I don't know about rebates for those.)

I read on this forum somewhere that the initial run of bikes for the USA was 2500. So I looked on Cycle Trader, and as of this morning, there are 335 Eluders and 417 Transcontinentals for sale in the USA. That is approximately 30% of the run, if that 2500 bike run, (which seems low to me), is true. So I can see why Yamaha might hesitate to try and bring on a 2020 for the USA.

When Harley brought in the 108 motor, they did it without asking the dealers how many of the same model they had left with the 103's in them. Turns out thousands, and those dealers had a fit with HD over that early intro. Many, many dealers ate a lot of coin on those leftover 103's. But HD had to do something, Indian was eating their lunch on over 900CC bikes. They needed a bigger motor. Yamaha seems to be a bit more cognizant of their dealers, which is nice to know.

She also said that the Gen 2 bikes, after about the first six months of issue on the 2018, the Gen 2's rose in used bike price by $1-2K, even if NADA stayed put. She had one on her floor, 2002, nice shape, 69,000 miles, wants a whopping $7000 for it. Not on my best day... But she knows it will move, eventually. My 2005 I just bought, I was a few hundred under that with a custom paint job and lots of upgrades, and it only had 20,035 on it. But she is the only Yamaha dealer around me, so it will sell if you want a Gen2 unit. I had to go down into Georgia to find the one I bought, and moved fast. It had only been on the dealer floor for five days when I showed up, and they had people scheduled to test ride it.

We'll see about the Eluder/Transcontinentals. They are a bike that Yamaha absolutely needs - but as one guy said over on my Indian Forum I belong to, why didn't they put the Vmax engine in them, detune it to about 150HP? Would have been an Indian/Harley killer for sure. Harley 103's and 108's already have water cooled heads, and Indian can't go much more than a year or two with the 111 air cooled engine. And it has heat problems also. It will have to be modified. Emissions...

I wonder if emissions was a big reason why yamaha went with a V-Twin.

According to the owner of B and B cycles the V-Max's only get about 28 mpg. Now that being said I'm sure they could detune it for better economy, but maybe they could just never pull the fuel mileage that seems to be standard on tourers these days which, from what you guys are reporting are religiously in the high 40s to low 50s?

I've told my dealer time and time again that if it have a V-4 in it I'd already be saving money, but he just seems to laugh me off. Although that Transcontinental has been sitting there since they were first shipped out.

To be fair, they havent moved that goldwing that sits right beside it, but I know for a fact that they sold at least one of each.

I believe Yamaha went with the V Twin simply because that is what the two big USA manufacturers have in their big bikes. I don't think it is much more complicated than that. You cannot get that "Potato-potato" noise out of any other engine. Why they didn't put some cooling on at least the heads is beyond me.

Either way, here's some facts:

1. Polaris sold around 17,000 Victorys in just shy of 18 years. One big reason was the styling - just love/hate. The front end of the 2018 Yamaha looks a lot like a Victory, with the sharp, angular lines. It also is love/hate. (With the caveat that Yamaha people would take it no matter what, simply because they are sold on the reliability of Yamaha and the brand.) Polaris unceremoniously dumped the Victory when it became obvious that Indian was taking off, and all their production capability was needed for Indian, especially the new Flat Track FTR1200 was and is a big hit.

2. 40% of all bikes are sold on color, just like cars. So if you didn't like one of the two colors put up by Yamaha in 2018, you might have been looking at other brands. And it's not just a wifey thing either. When my wife and I went in to look at our Indian Roadmaster in 2016, they had two in there, a two tone Springfield Blue/Cream, and one that was called Diamond Blue, sort of a sky blue metallic color. She loved the Diamond Blue, I loved the Two tone. What sold it was I told her that two-tone bikes bring better resale, which is just barely true. I'm glad I bought the two-tone, since that Diamond Blue one sat on his floor for another six months, waiting for somebody that liked that shade of blue.

If Yamaha had put up a couple of two-tone bikes, I wonder if sales would have been higher? Or even a Midnight Black one? Lots of people love black bikes.

Either way, it's all just conjecture, but I think that for my money, after trading my 2015 Harley Limited Low in Silver/Black with only 404 miles on it for my 2016 Indian Roadmaster two-tone, I've never looked back, and to be honest, I have had more compliments on that Indian than any other bike I've ever owned. And when I went looking for my first Yamaha, I looked for a Gen2, not a new one.

The 3rd gen has never been available in the UK.

In fact if you want a 'v-twin' cruiser it's Harley’s or Indian... The only full on tourer is the new Goldwing (which I sat on at the motorcycle show and I'm sorry but that's not a goldwing it's an ST1800)

It's pushing used prices up though... Second Gen are about £6000-£6500 (7600-8300 usd) from a dealer.

I can see the prices of used Jap cruiser / big touring bikes soaring in the UK in the next few years.

Just talking to my Yamaha dealer yesterday. They are third generation owners in this store, and I was talking to the lady who was second generation, came back to help while the kids were on vacation. She worked there for 50 years and keeps up with Yamaha, knows a TON of people.

She said that for the USA, the 2020 is still up in the air for Yamaha. They just don't know. Canada, fine, USA, not so much. Too many leftover 2018's on the floor. Yamaha is now trying to help, with a $2500 June rebate on any Eluder. (She didn't have any Transcontinentals so I don't know about rebates for those.)

 

I read on this forum somewhere that the initial run of bikes for the USA was 2500. So I looked on Cycle Trader, and as of this morning, there are 335 Eluders and 417 Transcontinentals for sale in the USA. That is approximately 30% of the run, if that 2500 bike run, (which seems low to me), is true. So I can see why Yamaha might hesitate to try and bring on a 2020 for the USA.

 

When Harley brought in the 108 motor, they did it without asking the dealers how many of the same model they had left with the 103's in them. Turns out thousands, and those dealers had a fit with HD over that early intro. Many, many dealers ate a lot of coin on those leftover 103's. But HD had to do something, Indian was eating their lunch on over 900CC bikes. They needed a bigger motor. Yamaha seems to be a bit more cognizant of their dealers, which is nice to know.

 

She also said that the Gen 2 bikes, after about the first six months of issue on the 2018, the Gen 2's rose in used bike price by $1-2K, even if NADA stayed put. She had one on her floor, 2002, nice shape, 69,000 miles, wants a whopping $7000 for it. Not on my best day... But she knows it will move, eventually. My 2005 I just bought, I was a few hundred under that with a custom paint job and lots of upgrades, and it only had 20,035 on it. But she is the only Yamaha dealer around me, so it will sell if you want a Gen2 unit. I had to go down into Georgia to find the one I bought, and moved fast. It had only been on the dealer floor for five days when I showed up, and they had people scheduled to test ride it.

 

We'll see about the Eluder/Transcontinentals. They are a bike that Yamaha absolutely needs - but as one guy said over on my Indian Forum I belong to, why didn't they put the Vmax engine in them, detune it to about 150HP? Would have been an Indian/Harley killer for sure. Harley 103's and 108's already have water cooled heads, and Indian can't go much more than a year or two with the 111 air cooled engine. And it has heat problems also. It will have to be modified. Emissions...

Actually there has never been any real way to know for sure just how much of a bite Polaris's Indian repops or other +900cc models were/are taking out of the Motor Company cause Polaris never releases actual unit sales. The consumers and HD themselfs never found out about the 17,000 units thru the entire life of the Polaris's Victory models until it was all over for those models and Wine let it out exactly how badly they sold. Polaris likes to try and convince the consumers that they are a challenger by saying they are making strides with false claims and not releasing actual units sold, they did the same thing with the Victory but in the end their total sales thru the years didnt even come close to one year of sales just for HD's Sporsters..

I still think that Mom Yams, and Polaris's decision to go after the HD market is simply based on market size.. A tiny piece of a HUGE pie like HD's is still wayyyyyy better than a bigger piece of the small pie that Honda has developed in the "Wing" market.. Simple math IMHO.

One thing for sure, all those markets are shrinking as the Baby Boomers time out and the future generations of could be CTFW varmints choose to get their thrills from video games and smart phones,, again,, IMHO..

First off, let me straighten out my statement, I had one thing backwards:

Indian Motorcycle Still Growing Despite Industry Slump -- The Motley Fool

This is where I found it, but I was wrong on the CC rating. It should be the "mid-sized" market, not "above 900CC".

I was wrong, and I apologize.

Also, you have to believe The Motley Fool.

Still, if this person is correct as of November, 2018, you have to think that is quite an accomplishment, mid-sized or otherwise.

Here's the actual quote out of the article, so you don't have to read it all.

(Quote):It's been the Scouts, though, that allowed Indian to surpass a 25% share of the midsize motorcycle market in the third quarter, and assuming the entire economy doesn't tank because of the trade war or other factors, Polaris is looking to gain even more.(Unquote)

--------------------

So they don't have to really know how many bikes Polaris is putting out, which I agree, they do not normally release those numbers although a couple people on the IndianRiders.org site work for Polaris in Iowa, and have released some vague numbers. They passed their 100,000 bike quite a few months ago.

No, this article used actual registrations of bikes in the "mid-size" market, which would put say, the Indian Scout up against say, the Harley Davidson Sporster and others.

And no, I don't think of a Goldwing anymore as a touring bike, unless you want to redefine the category. It is now a "Sport Touring Bike", and in this case, you are right, a ST1800. It follows the lines of the BMW and others in that category. Lighter, mid ride, your feet in a mid position, not a front position. Personally, I don't like them, but hey, they were South of what, 20,000 units a year? They have to try something.

Sometimes I wonder if any actual full dresser tour will be made by any manufacturer in about five years, with new riders clamoring for smaller, lighter, cheaper bikes, my generation checking out of biking altogether, and money not as flush for this generation coming on. First generation since WWII NOT to do as well as their parents...

Great example is the Indian Scout FTR1200. First pictures came out 3rd/4th qtr. in 2018, first models hit the showroom floors in late April 2019, but those were all spoken for. Even up to mid-June, every one coming off the line in their new facility in Spirit Lake, Iowa, and their European facility in Gdansk, Poland, are spoken for as soon as they finish coming off the line. No one really knows how many, and to further confuse things, it is a street/naked/dirt/sport - call it what you want bike. Totally equipped for about $17K, but I think you can get one as cheap as about $15K. They are aiming it right at people like Ducati/Triumph/Husky/BMW, and in a small way, any person who might think of buying a low end HD, but wants more versatility. About the only one they cannot compete with are the Japanese imports, like the lighter Yamahas, Suzukis, and Kaws. But Americans like the "Made in America", and in some part, Eurpoeans like the "Made in Europe". So here it is in the two configurations offered. Water cooled, BTW. Similar engine to the Scout.

First off, let me straighten out my statement, I had one thing backwards:

 

Indian Motorcycle Still Growing Despite Industry Slump -- The Motley Fool

This is where I found it, but I was wrong on the CC rating. It should be the "mid-sized" market, not "above 900CC".

I was wrong, and I apologize.

Also, you have to believe The Motley Fool.

Still, if this person is correct as of November, 2018, you have to think that is quite an accomplishment, mid-sized or otherwise.

 

Here's the actual quote out of the article, so you don't have to read it all.

(Quote):It's been the Scouts, though, that allowed Indian to surpass a 25% share of the midsize motorcycle market in the third quarter, and assuming the entire economy doesn't tank because of the trade war or other factors, Polaris is looking to gain even more.(Unquote)

--------------------

So they don't have to really know how many bikes Polaris is putting out, which I agree, they do not normally release those numbers although a couple people on the IndianRiders.org site work for Polaris in Iowa, and have released some vague numbers. They passed their 100,000 bike quite a few months ago.

 

No, this article used actual registrations of bikes in the "mid-size" market, which would put say, the Indian Scout up against say, the Harley Davidson Sporster and others.

 

And no, I don't think of a Goldwing anymore as a touring bike, unless you want to redefine the category. It is now a "Sport Touring Bike", and in this case, you are right, a ST1800. It follows the lines of the BMW and others in that category. Lighter, mid ride, your feet in a mid position, not a front position. Personally, I don't like them, but hey, they were South of what, 20,000 units a year? They have to try something.

 

Sometimes I wonder if any actual full dresser tour will be made by any manufacturer in about five years, with new riders clamoring for smaller, lighter, cheaper bikes, my generation checking out of biking altogether, and money not as flush for this generation coming on. First generation since WWII NOT to do as well as their parents...

 

Great example is the Indian Scout FTR1200. First pictures came out 3rd/4th qtr. in 2018, first models hit the showroom floors in late April 2019, but those were all spoken for. Even up to mid-June, every one coming off the line in their new facility in Spirit Lake, Iowa, and their European facility in Gdansk, Poland, are spoken for as soon as they finish coming off the line. No one really knows how many, and to further confuse things, it is a street/naked/dirt/sport - call it what you want bike. Totally equipped for about $17K, but I think you can get one as cheap as about $15K. They are aiming it right at people like Ducati/Triumph/Husky/BMW, and in a small way, any person who might think of buying a low end HD, but wants more versatility. About the only one they cannot compete with are the Japanese imports, like the lighter Yamahas, Suzukis, and Kaws. But Americans like the "Made in America", and in some part, Eurpoeans like the "Made in Europe". So here it is in the two configurations offered. Water cooled, BTW. Similar engine to the Scout.

https://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=116809

 

Sometimes reading the fine print helps when trying to figure where the truth is located:big-grin-emoticon::

A ton of companies own other companies stocks. I don't automatically condemn their statements, with the "fact checker" army out there these days killing off anyone who mutters anything even remotely incorrect.

I do know that Polaris is still growing the Indian brand, while many others are on the downturn, so there is that.

Ever ride one? Great bikes and most Indian dealers quickly became a good place to buy a good, low mileage HD, with all the trades they take in. Just my opinion, but like anyone else, we all got them!

A ton of companies own other companies stocks. I don't automatically condemn their statements, with the "fact checker" army out there these days killing off anyone who mutters anything even remotely incorrect.

I do know that Polaris is still growing the Indian brand, while many others are on the downturn, so there is that.

 

Ever ride one? Great bikes and most Indian dealers quickly became a good place to buy a good, low mileage HD, with all the trades they take in. Just my opinion, but like anyone else, we all got them!

Oh yea,, spent numerous hours on em.. Followed the 111 engine build all the way out to the Daytona launch of the engine then attended the world launch at Sturgis in '13 with great anticipation.. Gorgeous piece of work right from the get go IMHO.. I still think that as far as repops of the Indians go, Polaris did the best,, closely seconded by the Bottle Capper but definitely a piece of art work IMHO.. I love the ride, sound and feel.. Personally, I even actually LOVED the original real leather that Polaris used on the '14's that everyone bad mouthed.. I love how it rapidily faded into coolness but thats just me. I also thought the 111 always pulled well and that Polaris did a good job in setting up the steering geometry and suspention - good rider IMHO.

My beef is/was with Polaris. A list of why?:

1. At the launch in Sturgis they announced an increase in MSRP of 4 grand from what we were told at Daytona just a few months before.

2. That same night they also PROMISED to the Victory riders/dealers that their Victory models were gonna stay intact and become their mainstay tour bike. They held that line chat, even promising new Vic bikes/models were coming all the way up to the day they announced the line was closed. This was VERY hard on dealerships (who got the same lead time on the closure as the consumers did) and consumers alike. They were selling brand new Vics at MSRP 1 week before the closure at the International Bike Expo knowing the closing was coming and knowing those new bikes were gonna drop hugely in value overnight.

3. As soon as Polaris bought the Indian name that started the legal process of closing down all part suppliers for the vintage bikes. At that time, the early Indians had a very good after market supply line for bikes going all the way back to the early 1900's bikes. Polaris single handedly all but ruined any form of reasonably ($$ wise) being able to get an old 40's chief back on its feet.. In the real restore world of motorcycling, Polaris is scum.

4. Polaris seperated it self from the Indian name they own in an effort to give the image that Indian Motorcycles are once again alive by producing a fake company called Indian Motorcycles all in an effort to trick buyers into thinking they are riding real Indians instead of Polaris repops. I know,, its all about making money,, after all,, who would pay 30 grand for a Polaris Motorcycle thats made to look like an old Indian.. My problem is the ethics behind all this.. It's not an Indian,, it's a Polaris and the dishonesty behind the dishonesty speaks a lot of the culture one is buying into when dealing with a company such as Polaris leaving one to wonder just how much you can trust them in the future,, all IMHO of course.