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1983 to 1985 VS. 1986 and up swing arms.


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I thought the grease fitting on the 83 to 85 bikes was useless for lubing anything on the final gear drive and then Yamaha made the grease fitting actually grease the "ring and pinion" junction on the 86 and up bikes, my 88 has no grease fitting...so what's up?

 

1983.5 Swing Arm.jpg Pre1986 Swing Arm.jpg 88 swing arm.jpg

1983.5 83 to 85 88

Edited by dna9656
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Useless grease fitting?

 

I'm not supposed to grease that zerk periodically?

 

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

 

I trust you have a 83 to 85 bike....Have you ever taken the final drive gear off?

On my 83.5 to 85s servicing that zirk fitting just fills the tube with grease, or so i was told on this site,

it doesn't necessarily grease the gear coupling and drive shaft end joint.

Yamaha does not give a time or miles spec. to lube the location so lube it every time you have the final drive gear and swing arm apart.

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That fitting is there to keep water out of the shaft tube. If there wasn't something there it would be a hole and therefore there would be a potential for moisture to get into the tube. Just to put a plug in the hole would make it look like somebody made an error, but by putting a grease fitting there it looks like something important. As time went on and input costs were more deeply considered, some pencil pusher decided that was a place to save some cash, so the hole was eliminated, so saving hundreds of dollars by not having to make the hole, thread the hole and the cost of the fitting. They were also able to eliminate 2 jobs at the front desk because of the decline in phone calls regarding the fitting that went nowhere. Nobody ever owned up to the design error, so it was recorded as a mistake instead, and the world lived happily ever after.

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Seriously? Grins....the Mark 2's drive shaft rear coupling is lubed by the oil in the "rear end".

 

Well I can't really dispute that, I think you're referring to the insides of the Final Drive Assembly (FDA), I'm talking about where the drive shaft engages the FDA; where the Swing Arm and the drive shaft connect.

Carl, Neither the forward universal inspection port located on the forward end of the swing arm (on all models/has a plastic plug) above the universal joint is going to allow water to drain nor the location of where the grease fitting is on the 83 to 85 swing arm joint is going to let water out because they are not located on the low side the arm.

Unless of course I have no idea what your talking about...(very possible) unless as I wrote above you're referring to some thing inside the FDA?

Note to Web Master Freebird; I do not know why the site posted a 3rd picture; I tried to delete it and it doesn't show in the edit window. Also it turns some pics upside down and when you post an up side down (thinking it'll be right side up pic it still posts it up side down. Must be some kind of Gremlin huh?

Am I the only one with posting issues? I can't even remember what I was trying to get across to every one in the other post I made that turned into to gobbledigook.

 

1988  swing arm.jpg

 

From the 88 SM Note:

Inspection port/plug

To inspect the universal joint

 

 

IMG_20180923_162846184.jpg

From my shop

Note: grease fitting

above & fwd of FDA and

swing arm bearing

swing arm joint

IMG_20180923_162709654.jpg

Edited by dna9656
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I think we are on the same page.... but, just in case not, let me try again...

 

On the Mk 1's, early Ventures, that area where the driveshaft ends (rear), is lubricated by grease. On the Mk2's it's in the oil bath...no grease needed.

 

So an 88 year would not have a need for a grease fitting...which I thought was the original question?

 

Th front end where the shaft splines go into the unjoint do need grease. And some people did put grease fittings on the swing arm bushing areas, but some reported here that that was problematic at getting grease where it needed to go. That's beyond my expertise...

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I think we are on the same page.... but, just in case not, let me try again...

 

On the Mk 1's, early Ventures, that area where the driveshaft ends (rear), is lubricated by grease. On the Mk2's it's in the oil bath...no grease needed.

 

So an 88 year would not have a need for a grease fitting...which I thought was the original question?

 

Th front end where the shaft splines go into the u-joint do need grease. And some people did put grease fittings on the swing arm bushing areas, but some reported here that that was problematic at getting grease where it needed to go. That's beyond my expertise...

 

The spines in the U-Joint need to be greased by hand or acid brush, the U joint is too small to accommodate a zirk fitting; maybe a hole with a ball in it (serviced by a "needle" on a grease gun) would work but I havn't seen one used in this application, not that I have a huge amount of experience with them.....

 

Mark 2s being the 1300s or newer than 1993?

 

I'd like to hear more from Marcarl and anyone else that has any ideas...

 

I'm here to learn and shoot my mouth off about how much I don't know about these bikes!

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I'm sorry; I followed the link, read the entire post the post but am so thick headed that I don't get the correlation of the 2 articles... help me understand please....

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Here's a simpler explanation...in the difference between the early ventures 83-85, and the later Mk2's 86 -93?....

 

 

https://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?45138-Mk-II-driveshaft-lube

 

++++++++++++++++++

 

This post with pics has part of your answer as well.....a picture showing the rear end part of the drive shaft gear and oil seal.....notice that the oil seal is forward of the gear...so the gear can get oil from the rear end and the seal will keep the oil from leaking into the drive shaft tunnel....(nothing there to lube anyway)

 

Even though this post was written for 2nd gens...it's the same for the later model 1st gens.

 

https://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?95242-To-Lube-or-Not-to-Lube-That-is-the-question

 

+++++++++++++++++++

 

Going back to your original question. The later model (MK2's) of the 80's vintage Ventures have a different drive shaft/rear end design coupling. The early models needed grease on both ends of the drive shaft. The later models did not as the rear end of the drive shaft is lubricated by oil from the rear end.

 

The picture you posted of the grease zerk fitting was probably added by a Previous Owner. As to whether it works or not...it would depend on whether the grease can make it to the gear coupling to the rear of the zerk fitting.

 

If I remember, you have an 88? Your maintenance would require you to remove the drive shaft and rear end as an assembly....(take off rear tire, take off the 4 nuts holding the shaft assembly/rear end to the swing arm and pull it straight back. Do NOT remove the drive shaft from the rear end unless you want to buy a new oil seal and clean it up anyway. Then add grease to the front splines of the drive shaft. Some add a teeny bit of grease to the rear end of the drive shaft on the gear (not necessary really). Put back together.

 

As long as a tiny bit of rear end oil makes it into the gear the gear will be fine. Some think (and I'm one) that adding a tiny bit of grease to the rear drive shaft gear may gum up the small oil that allows oil to flow into the gear space. Maybe it can or will. I don't know.

 

My thought is if the rear end part of the drive shaft looks clean and no oil mess, then the seal isn't leaking and the gear is probably getting good lube. But the only way to tell is pull that gear and seal straight out of the rear end. Takes some effort to get the assembly out, but it is a straight simple pull. Probably ruin the rear seal, but that would be ok as you can check the condition of the drive shaft rear gear and then look into the rear end and see if the hole is nice and clean as well. Do it once, then keep your rear end lube changed on time and that part of the assembly should be good to go for years.

 

Hope this helps...

Edited by videoarizona
correction
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Here's a simpler explanation...in the difference between the early ventures 83-85, and the later Mk2's 86 -93?....

 

 

https://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?45138-Mk-II-driveshaft-lube

 

++++++++++++++++++

 

This post with pics has part of your answer as well.....a picture showing the rear end part of the drive shaft gear and oil seal.....notice that the oil seal is forward of the gear...so the gear can get oil from the rear end and the seal will keep the oil from leaking into the drive shaft tunnel....(nothing there to lube anyway)

 

Even though this post was written for 2nd gens...it's the same for the later model 1st gens.

 

https://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?95242-To-Lube-or-Not-to-Lube-That-is-the-question

 

+++++++++++++++++++

 

Going back to your original question. The later model (MK2's) of the 80's vintage Ventures have a different drive shaft/rear end design coupling. The early models needed grease on both ends of the drive shaft. The later models did not as the rear end of the drive shaft is lubricated by oil from the rear end.

 

The picture you posted of the grease zerk fitting was probably added by a Previous Owner. As to whether it works or not...it would depend on whether the grease can make it to the gear coupling to the rear of the zerk fitting.

 

If I remember, you have an 88? Your maintenance would require you to remove the drive shaft and rear end as an assembly....(take off rear tire, take off the 4 nuts holding the shaft assembly/rear end to the swing arm and pull it straight back. Do NOT remove the drive shaft from the rear end unless you want to buy a new oil seal and clean it up anyway. Then add grease to the front splines of the drive shaft. Some add a teeny bit of grease to the rear end of the drive shaft on the gear (not necessary really). Put back together.

 

As long as a tiny bit of rear end oil makes it into the gear the gear will be fine. Some think (and I'm one) that adding a tiny bit of grease to the rear drive shaft gear may gum up the small oil that allows oil to flow into the gear space. Maybe it can or will. I don't know.

 

My thought is if the rear end part of the drive shaft looks clean and no oil mess, then the seal isn't leaking and the gear is probably getting good lube. But the only way to tell is pull that gear and seal straight out of the rear end. Takes some effort to get the assembly out, but it is a straight simple pull. Probably ruin the rear seal, but that would be ok as you can check the condition of the drive shaft rear gear and then look into the rear end and see if the hole is nice and clean as well. Do it once, then keep your rear end lube changed on time and that part of the assembly should be good to go for years.

 

Hope this helps...

 

So the 1200cc bikes are Mk 1, the 1300ss are Mk 2 correct? so the rear end of the drive shaft needs no grease, it gets oils from the Final Drive Gear (FDG). So there is a seal in there I should replace it....?

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Correct.

If you are careful, the oil seal may come out without tearing.

 

The only thing I'm not sure of, is if there is a circlip on the rear end of the driveshaft. Some parts diagrams show one, some don't. If no, then the driveshaft pulls out.

 

Yeah, the drive shaft on this bike carries a circlip. I ask about replacing the seal because some times seals are replaced due to age (reliability) and or they are known to more often than not replaced due to cost/VS> the PIA it is having to replace it 300 miles after you put the bike back together and the $20.00 seal now "costs" either a lot of duplicate effort (taking the bike apart agan) so soon after just having done it OR 2 hours @ a shop paying the shop rate.

I have 2 HF motorcycle lifts; one for maintenance of my rider and one for disassembly of my 5 parts bikes; getting a bike up on the lift by myself is tricky because the side stand won't work on the lift and (I have HF's large M/C stand bolted to the lift to hold the free standing bike up) using the center stand is just impossible for me. I use tie-down straps to hold the bike up for safety and strapping it down while the bike is (almost) free standing. After all is secure I use a Venom M/C scissor jack under the bike to get the center stand down. I then re-set the tie down straps to make sure nothing is going to move. Anyway taking some thing back apart soon after I just had the ^%$#*&^&* thing up and apart is some thing I try to avoid.

So this seal is available for less than $10.00 with free shipping. This bike WAS NOT lavishly maintained, the PO had a guy he knew change the oil and do a lot more that he had no idea how to do and some assumptions were made like the drive shaft is (umm no, it isn't) nearly maint. free. The crud I found outside greased areas makes that plain as did the brake pads falling off the steel backing plate due to fork oil/brake fluid contamination and the improperly assembled forks.

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