Tieftoener
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Posts posted by Tieftoener
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Sweet, thanks! I guess I'll order and hope to replace it this weekend...
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Hello,
My '84 Venture has been trucking along well, save the 2nd gear issue. I have just been skipping past it or been easy enough on it not to cause it to skip/jump out. It has never had a problem shifting...
...Until this weekend. Went to take it to the store for some errands, and it made a difficult transition into 2nd. I got through the subdivision in 2nd, as I normally do to warm it up a bit so I can turn off the choke quicker.
It went back down to first at the main drag when I came to a stop. I pulled out, shifted into 2nd. Again, it was difficult. I popped out of 2nd, back into neutral. It wasn't the normal pop out under load, as I hadn't even let out the clutch yet. Another tap, and it went into 2nd. It stayed in 2nd gear with easy acceleration, and then I went for the shift to 3rd. Well, it wouldn't go into 3rd. And I had a very difficult time getting it back into 2nd. Ended up just coasting to a stop, all the while trying to shift up or down. No dice. Once stopped, I managed to get it back into 2nd. Then a swift snap got it down to first. I was not looking forward to pushing the beast all the way back home. Luckily, it stayed in first and I limped it back into the subdivision in first.
I did some prelim searches on the forum Saturday, and found suggestions to check the shift linkage in the ball joints to make sure they were clean and smooth. They were fine. I took them off, lubed them up for grins anyway. Now, they are indeed smoother, but it had no practical effect on shifting.
I also bled the clutch. The fluid was pretty brown and nasty, but it was grabbing fine. Nonetheless, I flushed the fluid out.
I ran the bike up on center stand at low RPMs and tried shifting through the gears. Same issues. 2nd seemed to go in just fine, but couldn't get it in third after several tries.
I have now found this thread with some suggestions regarding pin(s) fallout out of the selector. I did replace the clutch pads and springs with some stiffer Harley options about 4 years ago. But that's the extent to which I've been inside the transmission.
Found this post also, but am having issues identifying how to get the selector out from behind the stamped piece/bracket that extends over the center of it.
What/where are the pins that would have fallen out? What should I look for in a broken one?
Where do I get the replacement cast part? I saw something about a "replacement in V-Max's from early 2000's as a direct fit" - anybody got a P/N?
More importantly, am I chasing the right thing?
Thanks!
Scott
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It is sort of a VMax motor, but not really.
....
Gary
Thanks, Gary, for the detailed layout.
I am planning a rework of my '84 with a motor swap (sick of missing 2nd gear and will take the opportunity to finally make it "pretty" with a new paint job). Initially I was contemplating a swap with a 2nd Gen RSV motor, assuming that they included better components all the way around, thinking it was a continuously improved motor with 30 yrs of "lessons learned" being applied. But, it seems that there are complaints of the clutch, gear ratios, the different shifter linkage setup, and a less aggressive cam setup in the RSV motors. I knew about the different rear exhaust ports, but it didn't really bother me as I need to replace my rusted out collector and down tubes anyway. Nonetheless, I think the shifter setup alone makes me want to go with a Gen 1 MKII motor and VMax heads, as you've so graciously helped lay out.
Anyway, I will stop this verbal vomit and move my topics to a new thread for my project
Unfortunately, I haven't found much in my searches about the real in-depth logistics and issues in doing a motor swap, and this thread has actually helped A LOT. I'm a detail guy and like to have a clear plan ahead of time Thanks! -
Stupid, honest question...
Why put a gen 1 motor in gen 2 frame? Are gen 1 motors better performance? I thought the gen 2 had higher HP rating (stock)...?
Not trying to thread jack, I promise!. Simple short answer is all I am looking for. :-)
The project is really well done sir! I am very jealous - my '84 took a nose dive off the ugly tree and hit every single branch on the way down. Beautiful job!! Very anxious to see the final result. Subscribed!
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In doing the sync, what are you calling the "pilot idle adjustment screws"? Are you adjusting on the screws just below the diaphragm covers? This the only thing I can think of when you are referencing 2 1/2 turns.
RandyA
Yes, sir, those are the ones.
I don't have an EGA or CO sniffer, so not really sure how I can get those in the right place. All I've seen is that stock position is 2 to 2 1/2 turns out from bottom. Is there an EGA circulating on loan for forum members like the valve adjustment kit?
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You may be getting a false indication when you are between idle and main jet draw because of the idle settings, especially if the gauge attachment is slowing the vacuum response. What are the readings at idle? If you start at 1000 RPM to sync, you will never get it right. the throttle response comes from the low end which you are leaving out. I have to assume some of these things from your descriptions, like things fell into place after speeding up idle and checking beginning at 1000 RPM, suspecting it was done because of needle bounce or lack of it because it was too damped.
After re-reading your first response, I'm confused. Isn't idle speed 1000rpm?
I will gladly re-sync at whatever is recommended. That's what was recommended in the sync instructions in the Tech section, so that's what I went with. Is there a place I can get some replacement "de-bouncer" valves that would actually work?
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Sorry to hear about your troubles; I can imagine how frustrating it must be.
When you were in the carbs, what specifically did you do replace (if anything) besides the diaphragms? Did you get the slides loose (sometimes the main needle gets dried gas varnish and it sticks to the venturi inlet - need to carefully break it free and clean the main needle and jet opening). Did you get into the jets and jet block? Did you spray carb cleaner in all the orifices? Are they loose now? Are all the vacuum ports plugged/cap'ed?
For $1400 and no result, I'd be asking for a lot more description than that they say they did a "carb job." A bike mechanic/shop should know exactly what to look for and how to clean carbs. That's ridiculous.
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Problem with pressing/driving it in a vise is the backside of the pump housing doesn't have a good flat surface to press against unless you have about a 6" vise. Arbor press is best, but with some McGyvering, a large C clamp can be adapted with some bar stock steel.
The seal has to go straight in first time. It must be pressed against the large diameter metal ring. A large socket can be used that engages the outer ring fully.
I was thinking of mounting the pump case to a good straight piece of oak and putting that against the vice. C-clamp with bar stock seems like a good option too.
Sucess in rebuilding a water pump is proper seal installation. I have seen people try to press them in with sockets or pipe, WRONG , it will leak. You can't press the seal face in without some kind of lube. The proper way is to lube the rubber with a water solubile lube, AKA soap. Any dish soap works, dilute it half and half with water. Do not use any kind of petroliun lube, it will get on the seal and make it leak. A little soap on the seal face and it will slide in with finger pressure. Installing the seal around the shaft is the same. Rinse the excess soap off before assembling. I have been rebuilding pumps of all kinds for years and it has never failed me.Great tip - thanks!
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I am assuming that you are talking about the multiple gauges rather than tube type of sync tool.
Yes... not a mercury style.
I suspect that some of the unique attachments may be valves to control needle bounce as well as the ability to use the gauges for other things.Yes, they were not helpful, causing more problems than solving. The valves were leaking, causing errors. I was having a lot of difficulty with them; they are very cheap and imprecise plastic molded pieces, and the needles would go from "wild" to cut off in the slightest of movements on the valve screws. So, I just removed them and averaged things out with my eyes.
Not sure about your multiport attachment and what interaction with the other attachments.I used the multiport junction to plug all 4 gauge tubes into and the 5th junction connected a hose to the #1 vacuum port. I read that this was a good method to verify that the 4 gauges/tubes on the sync meter were calibrated and even. It was just used to check this. Afterwards, I plugged into all 4 vacuum ports on each intake.
I am also a little confused about your idle adjustments. In my experience ( which is not all that great) the starting point is about 2 1/2 turns but I have never had all of them be the same when finished. Turning them out another half turn each in all likelyhood won't give you the smoothest idle, they will all be slightly different. The other thing I wasn't clear on, you talk about the idle adjustments in the same sentence as the sync, don't want to be insulting but if the pilot circuit (idle) is off from the beginning, meaning that you opened the pilot circuit to set the idle instead of using the main idle adjustment, then your sync adjustment is going to be off. This should show up on your gauges as carb #1 is fixed and the others are synced to it.I used the main idle knob/screw to adjust RPM for the normal 1000rpm setting. I continued to use it as I synced the carbs... as I used the balance adjustment screws, rpm would change quite a bit, and I'd have to bring it back up or down using the main idle knob.
After lots of messing around, I could not get things close enough with the sync, so I decided to try opening up all 4 pilot idle adjustments another half turn. I originally opened them 2 1/2 turns when I reassembled things. All I can say is that after opening them up another half turn, getting the carbs synced up was a lot easier. Things settled right in and evened out within just a few minutes of tweaking.
I always used the main idle knob to adjust idle RPM.
I'm not insulted at all - I'm learning as I go here, and appreciate the input!
How do I correctly adjust each of the 4 pilot idle screws so they're at the right flow? Is there another sync procedure for those?
You indicate that it did well at the higher RPM settings which use different jets at different RPMs. You may be getting a false indication when you are between idle and main jet draw because of the idle settings, especially if the gauge attachment is slowing the vacuum response. What are the readings at idle? If you start at 1000 RPM to sync, you will never get it right. the throttle response comes from the low end which you are leaving out. I have to assume some of these things from your descriptions, like things fell into place after speeding up idle and checking beginning at 1000 RPM, suspecting it was done because of needle bounce or lack of it because it was too damped.I first set it at 1000 rpm. I had read that others recommended to also check how well things were synced at 2000 rpm. So, I did that. The sync at 1000 rpm showed good sync at 2000rpm and 3000rpm. I adjusted things just a smidge to be good at both 1000 and 2000rpm. The primary focus was on the 1000rpm idle sync. Things happened to look good up to 3000 rpm; I was just noting this, thinking it was a good sign.
Needle bounce was a bit tricky to get used to, but I just averaged things out, using the middle of the bounce range as the target. I got things adjusted so that all four needles were averaged at the same spot and bouncing the same range.
Thanks very much for the input. Any insight to the error of my ways is greatly appreciated! This was my first sync, and I'm sure I'm probably missing a few things.
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That seal should be PRESSED in, if you try to beat it in with a hammer, you'll be buying a few, usually. I would suggest you add the Thermostat Housing Cover to the list. The Thermostat Housing is Metal, the cover is plastic. With only two screws holding it down, sometimes it seals, and sometimes it doesn't. (the plastic warps) The two metric cap screws are usually rusted up pretty good as well, I always replace them. I usually don't replace the Yamaha Thermostat, it is an excellent quality porduct. Certainly not with a "made in china" one. For what it's worth, I won't rebuild a water pump here at the shop any more, Frying a motor over the cost of a new water pump is not worth it, In my opinion. Just my 2 cents. Good Luck With This Project!
Earl
Baaaah! I figured as much... Of course, my press is 1050 miles away in storage with all my other big toys. Moving cross-country 3 times in two years is not recommended.
Maybe I can rig a press using my vice...
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Thanks guys!
Gary, you put the impeller on the list twice - did you intend to put something else at the bottom or was it just a copy/paste error? Not a big deal, just wanted to check. If you do have a chance to get those pictures, I'd really appreciate it! Thanks much in advance!
I really appreciate you input!
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So, finally finished my carb rebuild and reassembly onto the bike. A few too many explicatives resulted from trying to get the throttle cables back on.
With the help of all the resources here, I was able to work my way through removing, disassembling, cleaning, inspecting, replacing a few parts, reassembling, and reattaching to the bike.
Yesterday, I picked up some vacuum line and a 5-port junction to check the sync tool I have. It was originally designed for my dad's old Honda CB750 with some unique attachments and a bunch of indicators on the gauges, rather than actual numerical vacuum levels. With the junction, I hooked up all four gauges to #1 port and they were all right on. So, proceeded to hooking up to all four cylinders.
I spent a good 20 minutes with a fan on the bike, getting things adjusted. Things fell into place a lot faster after I opened up the 4 idle adjustment screws another half turn - they were originally all open 2 1/2 turns during reassembly. They were all over the map when I started, but got all 4 lined up very well. I initially set it right around 1000 rpm, and then checked and tweaked things around 2000 and then again at 3000 rpm. They remain well synced at all three levels now. Granted, this is not the same fuel flow/load as actual riding conditions.
On my test ride, I noticed that things were more sluggish than usual, and it doesn't seem to have the same level of "snot" that it used to. It's slow to respond to medium or hard acceleration. It doesn't ever "bog down," so to speak, but just not as responsive as it should be.
Does anyone have any suggestions?
I'm a little disappointed with myself that it was more responsive with 1 main jet completely plugged and 2 others about 20% plugged
Thanks much in advance!
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After some winter maintenance, I started the bike up for a short test drive. When I came back, coolant was leaking pretty badly from the weep hole under the water pump.
Guess its time for a rebuild...
After searching the forums last night, I haven't seen a complete parts lists or technical aid anywhere, so thought I'd try to document it all in one place.
A couple questions:
1. I found in another post that P/N: 1FK-12450-00-00 is the newer metal impeller and that the plastic one was only used on MKI 1st gens. Can anyone (or a few people) confirm that this is indeed the metal replacement? I went through several years of bikes on Part Shark and they all listed this same P/N, but didn't indicate it as a replacement for obsolete part, which raised some suspicion.
2. Should I replace the thermostat too?
3. How do I get the water pump housing off without breaking the 90 degree plastic elbow joint between the thermostat and pump housing? Does it just slide/press in with the O-ring? Is it best to pull it out of the thermostat housing when pulling the pump housing off the case? Does it come easily or is there a safe method to pry/pull on it?
4. Is it necessary to replace the plastic gear (item 4)? I assume its worth $14 since I'll have it all apart, but just checking.
5. Will oil come out (do I need to drain oil) when I pull the water pump housing off the case?
6. What is item 3's purpose (Pin, dowel)? Should I replace that? Is it pressed in?
7. I'm planning to replace all the parts below. Am I missing anything?
8. I've read that success rate on a rebuild is not good. What are common mistakes or causes for this? What do I need to watch out for?
Thanks in advance, everyone!
Rebuild Parts List:
1FK-12450-00-00 – Qty 1
IMPELLER SHAFT ASY for 1984 YAMAHA XV 1200D
Item 2 – this is supposedly the metal version, original was plastic
$39.72
11H-12438-10-00 – Qty 1
SEAL, MECHANICAL for 1984 YAMAHA XV 1200D
Item 8 – ceramic water tight seal
$19.54
93101-10090-00 – Qty 1
OIL SEAL,S-TYPE for 1984 YAMAHA XV 1200D
Item 7
$2.52
93306-00004-00 – Qty 1
BEARING for 1984 YAMAHA XV 1200D
Item 6
$13.05
99009-10400-00 – Qty 2
CIRCLIP for 1984 YAMAHA XV 1200D
Item 5, 2 places
$1.18
26H-12459-00-00
GEAR, IMPELLER SHAFT
Item 4
$13.86
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93211-16591-00 – Qty 1
O-RING for 1984 YAMAHA XV 1200D (Outer Impeller Case Cover O-ring gasket)
Item 9
$5.05
214-11198-01-00 – Qty 1
GASKET for 1984 YAMAHA XV 1200D (Drain Plug O-ring)
Item 12
$1.25
3JP-12449-02-00 – Qty 1
GASKET,WATER PUMP for 1984 YAMAHA XV 1200D (Gasket for main case housing)
Item 14
$5.02
93210-27778-00 – Qty 2
O-RING for 1984 YAMAHA XV 1200D (O-ring seals for elbow joint between Pump housing and T-stat)
Item 19
$1.45
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Thanks Jason. And thanks for the grease tip to hold the parts together during reassembly - Good call! I'm trying to find replacement O-rings. Hopefully, I can get the carbs back on this weekend.
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Tief...,
You asked about carb float stuff. I have not had the carbs on my VR apart, but a car carb float should work pretty much like a bike float.
The float has a tab that contacts the needle valve that shuts off fuel flow INTO the bowl when the fuel gets to the correct level. If the float is set too high, it could overflow and flood the engine or worse. If set too low, the fuel won't be pulled out of the bowl properly, and you could run lean.
To set the floats on every carb I have seen (again, maybe the Yamaha floats are different, so someone correct me if I am wrong) you turn the unit with the float and needle valve attached upside down so the float is pushing only with its own weight on the needle valve. The tab that touches the float is the part you usually bend to get the float level right. most car kits include a measuring device the measures the right height from the surface of the carb body to a given point (usually the pinched seam) on the float.
While there make sure the float does not have any fuel in it, they can develop leaks if hollow, or they could soak up fuel if old enough and not hollow. Most are brass, some are plastic.
I hope this helps, and If the Venture carbs are a lot different, I hope I didn't screw you up!
Hi Don,
Thanks. I believe I understand these basic principles and the "extremes" of way too much fuel causing overflowing and way too little fuel causing a lean condition.
What I have a hard time understanding is why its so critical that the float be within a mm or two of spec'd height for shutting off the needle valve. With bikes and boats, there's a whole lot of sloshing around with the roll/pitch changes while riding, which would certainly affect the fuel level in the bowls a whole lot more than a mm or two adjustment for the "optimal spec'd shutoff point."
Am I off my rocker?
Thanks for helping set me straight...
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Below is a link to the replacement plastic covers for the neeble jet holes.
I had a carb that a wasp built a nest in one of the open holes.
$8 shipping included for 4 of them.
Also attached is a picture showing the needle valve point sticking through the venturi when it is seated.
Gary
Awesome, thanks Gary. I'll keep an eye out for that hole...
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Thanks again to everyone!
Checked them out last night. I'll pull them out and clean them this weekend. I feel soooo much better knowing that I didn't "screw something up" (pun intended)
last weekend. I'll be sure to be gentle and look forward to getting this cleaned out for a smooth running machine... -
Ok, looking at the outside of the carb, at the diaphragm side, you see two arrows in the pic. The arrow on the left is pointing at the recess where the idle air adjustment screw is. This screw SHOULD NOT BE TIGHT. EVER! Standard setting is turn in lightly until it just seats gently then back it out 2 1/2 turns for a good start on being correct.
If you crank this screw in hard you can damage the housing body. There is no seat on the screw other than the body itself.
Now if your carbs have never been touched there might well be a pug in that holes. You can drill a same hole PARTLY into it and pull it out with a small screw. If you desire, PM Dinghy (Gary) and he did have new plug available a while back.
If these needles have not been removed ever you might have some build up in there causing idle issues when you put them back on.
The needles you pull out will have a spring, washer, and an o-ring in there also.
The arrow on the right side is the drain screw to the fuel bowl. When you open that the black rubber lines coming through the rack brackets will begin to flow if the carb is getting fuel properly.
Hope some of that helps.
Mike
Mike, that's fabulous - THANK YOU. I know what you're talking about now - mine are still "plugged." I'll open these up and clean them up.
Do I need to seal that end cap back up? Perhaps just use a rubber plug (similar to what's used in the jet body?
Thanks everyone!
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Brass plugs need hole drilled in them, then they are pulled out of the carbs and discarded. Spring loaded idle needle is under these plugs. Count and record turns until needle is bottomed(not hard or you will damage needle)(for each carb), then remove needle for cleaning. Starting point for reinstalling needles will be what was recorded earlier, probably 2-3 turns from bottom.
Can I get replacement brass plugs at the dealer (or other parts place)?
In looking at page 4-2 of the manual, is this identified as the "Pilot Screw"? I see a spring there.
Also, how do I get to the Purge Jets 1 & 2? Purge Jet 2 appears to have the inlet from the hole inside body behind the main diaphragm. Is the other one on the other side? Guess I'll have to take the diaphragms out again and see if I can spray some carb cleaner down those holes...
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I'm pretty sure they are referring to the idle jet/air mixture screws under the brass plugs just below the diaphram cover screws on the outside. Not "IN" the carb. Excuse me if I am wrong. I am no mechanic. Good luck.
OK... thanks! I actually just got a call from one of the members (whose name I've already forgotten) who explained the same thing to me over the phone. I'll take a look when I get home tonight and see if I can locate them.
Again, thanks to all for your input! I can't tell you how awesome it is to have such a great community of people I can go to that are so willing to help!
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I believe the factory set needle valves your refer to have a brass cover over them, so you probable did mess with them. You would have to pry the covers off with a pair of pliers. Others here know more about this then I.
Brass cover? Where? Inside the bowl?
But you should have-for a proper cleaningI don't see anything (unless there's another name they're using) in the service manual about this.
Can you guys point me to a section in the manual that I'm overlooking? Can we start from the exploded view on page 4-1 of the service manual?
"Needle Valve Screw"
- Is this the cap/screw that meets up with the "Float Needle Valve" at the fuel feed input to the bowl?
- The "Needle Jet Screw" identified here was screwed down tight onto the jet block when I opened these up for cleaning. I can't imagine this should be "loose" (not tight) since there is no spring to prevent the screw from backing all the way out (providing a locking mechanism).
Thanks for your input!
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Hello,
I disassembled and cleaned out the carbs last weekend per the service manual. To make sure I didn't miss something, I've been going through the forum threads and articles.
"mbrood" did a Carb Overhaul write-up in Tech section. In the 3rd to last paragraph he talks about the "The factory-set needle-valve screw..." The problem is, I have no idea what he's talking about. I'm concerned that I screwed in something too tight and ruined the needle valve now. Everything I unscrewed was TIGHT, so I put them back normal tight. I understand the needle valve and float relationship. He talks about a spring loaded screw for adjusting fuel flow. I don't understand what screw he's talking about. Can you guys help? Any references in the manual pages/pictures/ID numbers would really help.
Regarding float level, it never dawned on me to check or adjust for this change. I understand the principle of putting fuel in the carb and letting the float rise up to shut off flow. I don't understand (1) why fuel level is so critical in the bowl (I thought it just had to have enough fuel in there to be able to maintain flow... assuming more was better) and (2) how to know where the float is at shutoff point when the bowl cover has to be on in order to fill the bowl. How do you get the float to remain stationary so you can check it's position?
I read Squidley's recent thread on float level, and understand what he's measuring, but what has to happen at that level - start compressing the float needle valve spring? Or just making contact with the float needle valve?
I'm (obviously) very new to carb work and appreciate your time and input. I'm anxious to learn though
Many thanks in advance!
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I just removed my carbs on my '84 this weekend for the first time. PITA is right. Thankfully, I found the 2x2 + prybar recommendation to get the carbs out of the intake boots before tackling the project.
Cleaning them went well. It hasn't been ridden (or run) in ~2.5yrs due to moving all over the place. I decided a thorough carb clean was mandatory at this point. Two of the carbs were plugged up pretty badly. One of them has had zero fuel flow for some time (probably before I bought it in '05), based on the amount of sludge in the main jet. It was completely compacted. I'm anxious to get this thing running, tuned, and synced... and running on ALL 4 cylinders
Thankfully all diaphragms were/are in tact. I also had a really crummy time with the screws on the bowl and diaphragm covers. Stripped the crap out of about 20% of them. My impact driver disappeared somehow in the last move (GRRRR). And I was unable to find any of the JIS screwdrivers locally. So, with some supernatural grace, a hammer, and a big 'ole Vicegrips, I was fortunate enough to break them all loose. It (my sanity) was touch and go for a while. I replaced them all with some zinc-coated steel M5 hex heads and slit/lock washers. I wish they would have used those "safety" Torx heads on all of the screws in the first place...!
Btw, I also did Condors method on the throttle cables. I'm not looking forward to trying to get the darn things back on...
And its certainly going to be an adventure to get the carbs back in the boots... -
How is the TCI mounted under there? I didn't have a mirror handy with me on Tuesday.
Is it possible to get inside the TCI to inspect for bad solder joints?
Thanks,
Scott
I will gladly re-sync at whatever is recommended. That's what was recommended in the sync instructions in the Tech section, so that's what I went with. 
last weekend. I'll be sure to be gentle and look forward to getting this cleaned out for a smooth running machine...
Brass plugs need hole drilled in them, then they are pulled out of the carbs and discarded. Spring loaded idle needle is under these plugs. Count and record turns until needle is bottomed(not hard or you will damage needle)(for each carb), then remove needle for cleaning. Starting point for reinstalling needles will be what was recorded earlier, probably 2-3 turns from bottom.
Thankfully all diaphragms were/are in tact. 
And its certainly going to be an adventure to get the carbs back in the boots...
BUB Slip on Exhaust Pipes (used)
in Second Gen Parts and Accessories
Posted
Hello everyone,
I have a pair of BUB slip-on mostly straight pipes that were on my 99 RST when I purchased it in 2014. Other fitments and questions are up to you to determine. I removed them in summer of 2015 and installed some 2nd gen Venture mufflers to quiet it down. The Bubs were just too loud for me (I like it quiet).
They come with the clamps as shown in pictures. They're not perfect, but hopefully someone can get use out of them.
Venmo or PayPal for payment. Unless your local (36526), then cash is always OK.
$150 shipped in lower 48. I'm willing to ship elsewhere, but on your dime and arrangements.
BR,
Scott