Newbie Removed fairing, now the bike won't start ?

[Arxvz1200]

Hi,

I'm a new member with a new to me -84 xvz 1200.

 

Quick question: should the engine run without the fairing ( radio, intercom, signal lights etc ), it should, right ?

 

Got the bike a week ago. It started and ran well. Due to the winter wasn't able to do a proper test drive, but it idled ok. Started several times.

I took the farings off and now the lights come on , the computer seems ok, it cranks but doesn't fire up. The battery is not the issue, I use backup fullycharged battery when testing.

To my understanding only wires I disconnected were radio, signal lights, speakers, emergency signal, intercom. Are any of those connected to spark circuit ?

I also sprayed some starter liquid to air box while starting, with no success. I seem to have lost the spark.

 

I didn't see any badly made jumps in the wiring, I assume it's standard wiring other than fuse box. That has been changed.

Bikes has 52 thousand miles on the clock. There are some minor cracks in the front fairing. I think it's royal with class system removed.

This is my first touring bike, and also my first bike so much modern tech I've previously had xj900, cb 750, gsx750 all from early 80,s. Simple bikes for simple rider. XVZ seems to have more electronics than those together.

 

It's gonna be 3-4 months winter where I live, before riding season starts. During that my aim is to repair fairing cracks, clean carbs, check valves, clean starter motor, change all fluids ....

 

Been following this forum for a while, didn't want to sign up before I owned the bike. There seems to be huge knowhow within the group. I'll check the plugs and report back.

Thanks,

 

Anssi

 

[Marcarl]

Seems to me that you undid something that you were unaware of. It should start and run just fine without all the gizmos. Check your fuse box for loose connections, loose wire end at the fuse box, kill switch, and maybe try it with the kickstand up, or the clutch handle pulled in. Could be a switch as well.

And welcome, glad you joined because that way we can help,,,,, sometimes from the frying pan into the fire, but help none the less.

[djh3]

This may seem a little to simple. I will tell you I did not read the entire post. BUT I did similar thing last year. Was working under the fairing on my 2nd gen. Got dont no start. After about an hour looking around, chasing wires etc looking for all this strange stuff that could have went south. The kill switch had got bumped.

[bongobobny]

I was going to say the same thing, kill switch!

 

Is the green neutral light on?? Try squeezing the clutch when you try to start to eliminate the kickstand switch going south. Check the ignition fuse as there may have been a short...

[frankd]

Guys, he said that the bike cranks, and the kill switch, and the side stand switch stop the bike from cranking, so they can't be the cause.

 

Have you checked for spark? Pull a plug wire, and put an spare sparkplug in it, hold it against the engine, crank the engine, and watch for spark.

[djh3]

Would be more fun if he hung onto the plug and the crankcase while he spun it over.

Rellay sorry didnt see the part about turns over. This would not be the first bike in the last oh 4 months or so I have heard of ran fine and a fellow worked on it and then would not start. The last ended up troubleshooting like almost a month to figure out it was the electronic box that the sidestand switch feeds into and a coil pac died simultaneously.

[Arxvz1200]

Hi,

Thanks for replies. In a way I'm happy to hear that engine should run without the gizmos. Wish it would have have been kill switch or side stand, but no.

 

Did a quick crank test yesterday. The starter turns the engine fine.

I tested for spark, with an extra plug. Got steady spark on all four wires while cranking.

Don't like using starter fluid, but carefully did anyway. Nada.

 

I'm starting to think that fairing removal and starting problem are not connected.

 

The tank was almost empty when I got the bike. Gave about a gallon of fresh gas.

Air filter seemed ok, tried without it, no effect.

 

Back basics. There's compression as it ran, I do get spark, fuel ?

Fuel pump ? Did I hear clicks ? I think so, never had bike with fuel or water pump before.

 

Wasn't able to the pull plugs without a thinwalled thingy.I try get one today as well as new plugs.

I'll get the plugs out and share the results.

 

I hate the feeling of paranoia creeping in. Maybe the fuel I bought was bad

[frankd]

First Gen Ventures don't absolutely need a 'thinwalled thingy' to pull the plugs. An 18mm 3/8" drive deep well socket and extension will work. Just be careful to keep it squarely on the plug so you don't break the plug's insulator. If you have an air compressor, blow the area around the plugs out before you pull the plugs. If the carb bowls are full of fuel, you won't hear the fuel pump cycle. It only clicks when you need fuel in the carbs. If there is any doubt that there isn't fuel in the carbs, you could pull a carb drain screw and see if fuel runs out of the hose below the carbs. Just make sure you have the correct #2 phillips screwdriver. I don't know what shape they are in your area of the world, but American phillips screwdrivers have a slightly different shape than Asian philllps screwdrivers. The reason I say this is because if you use the wrong phillilps it won't fit the screw properly and you probably will strip the screw head. An Asian phillips screwdriver fits much tighter in the screw head.

 

Are you using the correct proceedure to start it cold. Also how cold is it where you're trying to start the bike? If it's about 0 Celsius, you'll probably need full choke and no throttle to get it to fire. On my 83, as soon as I hear the first cylinder fire, I blip the throttle, and it starts right up. If it's warmer, try about 1/2 choke. If you've flooded the engine, turn the choke completely off and rock the throttle from idle to about 1/2 back and forth as you crank the bike for about 15 seconds. Then close the choke about 1/2 way and try a normal start. My 89 (different carbs than the MK I bikes) starts much better.

[paysaw]

Here is something to think about.When you turn the key you might here and could here the clicking from the fuel pump trying the charge the carb bowls with fuel. If you don't here that you may not be getting fuel to carb. Gingerly sprints the tops of the cabs with fuel.If the engine is showing an interest in starting it is a fuel problem.Check fuse to the pump.

[BlueSky]

You don't have the fuel valve set to off do you?

[bongobobny]

Clogged fuel filter?

[Flyinfool]

If you gave it a spritz of starting fluid and got nothing. then it is not a fuel issue either. it should have at least sputtered on the stating fluid.

Get those plugs out and have a look, they may just be that bad, these bikes are very sensitive to having good plugs. Often even plugs that still look good and look clean will not run well.

[frankd]

Also, is it cranking normally, or does it sound like it's spinning faster than normal?

[Neil86]

Above the headlight are several relays.....ensure they are all securely plugged in......also look at the emergency stop

switch ("tip over switch") in that same area....I will check schematic for wire colors....it must be securely sitting in its rubber sleeve

and mounted in its frame tang (the sleeve reads UPPER) as tilting the switch cuts off ignition.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Neil86

[Neil86]

Emergency stop switch has 2 wires....main harness, Black, Black/White....switch wires Black, Black.

If the switch is dangling you can have good ignition one minute....bump chassis and have no ignition next.

 

heres what it looks like...

1986 Yamaha Venture Royale Emergency Stop Tipover Switch Relay Unit | eBay

Edited December 17, 2014 by Neil86

[flyday58]

What news from Finland?

[Arxvz1200]

Hi,

Thank you all very much for different suggestion. Here's what I did:

- drained fuel from the tank and carb float bowls

- changed the plugs

- put new fuel into the tank

 

It started up and run on four cylinders !

 

Didn't have much time to spend but am sure glad to get it running.

 

What was wrong then that it suddenly didn't want start anymore (at the same time as I removed the fairing) ?

Maybe I fowled the plugs and they gave in ?

I did put some gas into the tank, in my mind I've gone over thousands times whether that could have caused the problem.

Cause it ran for a little while and then it didn't.

 

The sparklugs looked really old, didn't bother to test the plugs removed. I'll attach a picture.

 

Could you also educate me on the thing behind eg left rear plug in the cover, what is it (pic2)

 

The tachometer acted really slow, first I thought it doesn't work but then it picked up really slowly.

 

Never had xvz before, I know nothing about history of this bike. Learning Little by little...

But it has signs of negletance as in pics.

Again thanks for help, starting from the kill switch... never take anything certain

[Neil86]

The pin inboard of the spark plug retains a sleeve with orings in water jacket of the cylinder head.

 

Is the tach sluggish revving up and down, or erratic....erratic or zero often is a ignition system control problem as the tach reads the firing cycles for the ignition coil for #2 cylinder (front left).

[Arxvz1200]

Hi,

Been travelling. I thought I get back on tacho being sluggish. It appears to be mechanical. It's just very very SLOWLY follows the engine. When I start the engine tacho stays at 0 for couple of seconds and then Slowly rises.

[Chaharly]

I had an 83 that did the same thing. I never really looked into it but it sure did bother me. I didnt hold on to that bike for very long. If you are a full member i believe you can download the manual and see for yourself to see if you can get in there and maybe clean up it with some electrical contact cleaner and then silicone lubricant. Just a guess though! Sorry I couldn't be more help

[Yammer Dan]

Look at cleaning and drying TCI.