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  #31  
Old 02-20-2012, 08:27 PM
twigg twigg is offline
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Originally Posted by Prairiehammer View Post
I don't recall any safety problems with most Japanese motorcycles. Japan has a very stringent safety protocol and a completely different culture than the Chinese. If I'm not mistaken, there have been many recalls of Wal-Mart marketed Chinese made products over the years. Wal-Mart is not called the "Evil Empire" for nothing.
Ford Cruise controls? Toyota accelerators sticking?

Made in the USA, or by a country you consider reputable, is no indicator. USA made is among the worse as the regulations begin to be rolled back. Many US Corps. hide the origins of their products and lots of "Made in the USA" is nothing of the sort.

Some of the process might be, but the materials? the sub-assemblies?

It's impossible to tell.

Walmart is called the "Evil Empire" because of it's employment practises, less so because of the products. You can't argue that Americans don't want that crap when they spend so much on it.
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  #32  
Old 02-20-2012, 08:40 PM
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I agree with your assertion of US Corporations hiding their true product origins. But, a careful study of the product specifications can reveal inconsistencies that are harbingers of potential problems. Even if the materials of USA made products are imported, there is a high likelihood that the US manufacturer is going to check that material for bad stuff before utilizing it in his end product.
I think many US corporations are greedy and sending their production to China, India or Viet Nam simply to save many dollars and then sell the familiar American name branded product to unwary consumers is criminal. To add the greed of Wal-Mart into the mix with that corporations demands on it's suppliers makes for a potential toxic mix. Do you really think the largest company in the world gives a rat's a$$ about product liability?
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  #33  
Old 02-20-2012, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Prairiehammer View Post
Do you really think the largest company in the world gives a rat's a$$ about product liability?
yes. All it takes is one massive class action lawsuit to put them out of business.

In fact, wasn't WalMart who pulled their house branded baby formula just because a baby somewhere died from a rare bacterial infection even though there was almost no way it was possible for the bacteria to have come from their formuala?

http://consumerist.com/2011/12/walma...f-newborn.html

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According to reports, the 10-day-old baby died of a rare bacterial infection not long after being fed Enfamil Newborn lot #ZP1K7G which had been purchased at a nearby Walmart. It is not know whether the formula is even related to the child's passing, but the retail chain opted to pull it from shelves while testing continues.
In the end, it wasn't from the formula but Im sure Walmart lost a bunch of money from their voluntary recall.

http://consumerist.com/2012/01/tests...ld-deaths.html
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  #34  
Old 02-20-2012, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Prairiehammer View Post
I agree with your assertion of US Corporations hiding their true product origins. But, a careful study of the product specifications can reveal inconsistencies that are harbingers of potential problems. Even if the materials of USA made products are imported, there is a high likelihood that the US manufacturer is going to check that material for bad stuff before utilizing it in his end product.
I think many US corporations are greedy and sending their production to China, India or Viet Nam simply to save many dollars and then sell the familiar American name branded product to unwary consumers is criminal. To add the greed of Wal-Mart into the mix with that corporations demands on it's suppliers makes for a potential toxic mix. Do you really think the largest company in the world gives a rat's a$$ about product liability?
I agree with much of that.

I don't agree with your touching belief that American Companies will check quite as carefully as you suggest. Walmart is an American company (the biggest, actually), yet you rightly pointed out that some of their products have clearly not been tested very well.

Most of the Asian suppliers actually meet pretty rigorous standards, because they sell the same products in Europe, where the testing requirements are far more stringent than in the US.

For example ... Take Crash helmets ... The DOT rating is simply the manufacturer stating that the product meets the standard. There is no testing requirement. You do not get a CE mark, or ANSI badge that easily.

You are probably quite correct that at the bottom of the market are dangerous products, made cheaply and imported by unscrupulous companies. Many of them are sourced in Aisa, but we were talking Hydration Systems. Well both Camelbak and the Walmart variety are made in the Far East .... and possible even in the same factory

Don't get me started on Nike
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  #35  
Old 02-20-2012, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by flb_78 View Post
yes. All it takes is one massive class action lawsuit to put them out of business.
I wish this were true ... Quite recently it was made vastly more difficult and more expensive to get a Class Action off the ground.
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  #36  
Old 02-20-2012, 08:52 PM
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There are class action suits against Wal-Mart currently, perhaps dozens, but with revenue of $419 BILLION in 2011, there would have to thousands of multi million dollar verdicts to put them out of business. Meanwhile, the margins are growing and the dollars keep flowing.
Balderdash!
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  #37  
Old 02-20-2012, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Prairiehammer View Post
There are class action suits against Wal-Mart currently, perhaps dozens, but with revenue of $419 BILLION in 2011, there would have to thousands of multi million dollar verdicts to put them out of business. Meanwhile, the margins are growing and the dollars keep flowing.
Balderdash!
Let me give you a motorcycling example of what I mean ...

In Europe, if Jacket and Pant armor does not have a CE mark, it cannot be called "Armor", it can only be called padding. To get the mark it has to be independently tested. So all armored clothing has been tested to a uniform standard.

In the US that isn't the case. Manufacturers are free to called their jackets "Armored" quite regardless of the quality of what is protecting your squishy bits.

Some fairly expensive jackets actually charge more for spine-protectors that are CE marked, as opposed to what they fit in the item as standard.

One of the reasons I like Olympia Motor Sports stuff is that all of their armor is CE marked, and supplied as standard.

Now armor matters to bikers .... Why would any biker complain about a regulation that stipulated that anything that described itself as "armor", should be tested to a uniform standard.

It wouldn't add to the cost, Olympia does this already at a decent price.
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  #38  
Old 02-20-2012, 09:05 PM
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Steve, I understand where you are coming from when you speak CE approved armor and even helmet standards (I believe Snell to be an even more stringent standard than the Euro guidelines and yet Snell Foundation approved helmets are not approved for use in Europe.) and that argument is not lost on me, HOWEVER, how many "armored" jackets are sold by Wal-Mart and the ilk without the CE rating? And, an uninformed consumer/motorcyclist would feel quite comfortable buying the cheap stuff, oblivious to the inferiority of the jacket. Where is the corporate responsibility there?
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  #39  
Old 02-20-2012, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Prairiehammer View Post
Steve, I understand where you are coming from when you speak CE approved armor and even helmet standards (I believe Snell to be a more stringent standard the Euro guidelines and yet Snell Foundation approved helmets are not approved for use in Europe.) and that argument is not lost on me, HOWEVER, how many "armored" jackets are sold by Wal-Mart and the ilk without the CE rating? And, an uninformed consumer/motorcyclist would feel quite comfortable buying the cheap stuff, oblivious to the inferiority of the jacket. Where is the corporate responsibility there?
Kevin the point is wider than the Hydration bottle. You are correct about ANSI/SNELL, indeed, in the UK most will buy ANSI/SNELL rated cycle helmets (for bicycles), because the testing is more rigorous than CE. All are legal for sale, btw.

Walmart is no different to any other corporation, and if they think they can take shortcuts, then they will. SO will Ford, GM, and all the others. In the past the lack of regulation was at least partially balanced by a fear of being sued.

Little surprise then that corporations are lobbying hard for tort reform as well as fewer regulations. In many cases, if manufacturers and retailers can show that a product has been tested to a nationally agreed standard, then they are protected from lawsuits, but they want it both ways.

I ride a motorcycle, and what I want to know is who is taking care of me? I buy a crash helmet with the reasonable expectation that it will provide some protection when Bubba piles into me making a left turn that wasn't on. How do I know that my helmet is doing what it is supposed to?

There is likely nothing wrong either with the Camelbak OR the Walmart offering, yet the suggestion was that Walmart might not be so stringent. You may be correct, neither of us knows.

We don't know if the premier brand is any better either, because no one is checking.

That's my point.
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  #40  
Old 02-20-2012, 09:27 PM
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ok can we get back on the original topic of how we each rehydrate?......... PLEASE...........I was actually enjoying it till all this other crap got started.

DAvid
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  #41  
Old 02-20-2012, 09:30 PM
twigg twigg is offline
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Originally Posted by painterman67 View Post
ok can we get back on the original topic of how we each rehydrate?......... PLEASE...........I was actually enjoying it till all this other crap got started.

DAvid
Well I have been enjoying it all.

Polite, civil exploring of a few issues ...

The "hydration" part of the discussion has been decently covered too.

Heh ... A good thread, that has it all
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  #42  
Old 02-20-2012, 09:31 PM
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Steve, perhaps I'll get the last word in...before Freebird lands on this thread.

I see that our arguments are not that diverse in the broad scope.

I simply believe that the ODDS of a person getting a safe(r) product are better with an American, or Japanese, or German, or UK made product than a Wal-Mart marketed (and probably contracted by) product which is invariably made in China for the cheapest possible price, along with all that may bring (lack of expensive quality control, safety, etc.)

Peace.
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  #43  
Old 02-20-2012, 10:06 PM
twigg twigg is offline
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Originally Posted by Prairiehammer View Post
Steve, perhaps I'll get the last word in...before Freebird lands on this thread.

I see that our arguments are not that diverse in the broad scope.

I simply believe that the ODDS of a person getting a safe(r) product are better with an American, or Japanese, or German, or UK made product than a Wal-Mart marketed (and probably contracted by) product which is invariably made in China for the cheapest possible price, along with all that may bring (lack of expensive quality control, safety, etc.)

Peace.
Yeah .. I have no argument with you, I found this interesting.

One final thing to remember about the Chinese manufacturers ...

While it is true that there are some very shoddy factories out there, most of the ones supplying the US with stock for Walmart, Target, and Motorcycle stuff are actually working to a spec. set for them by US designers and buyers.

In other words, they make stuff to order, and the orders are placed, and the specs set by the US companies placing them.

There is some food for thought!

as you said ... peace.
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  #44  
Old 02-20-2012, 10:36 PM
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I'm learning alot here.Didnt think I was in any danger.Glad I asked a question
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  #45  
Old 02-20-2012, 10:42 PM
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I'm learning alot here.Didnt think I was in any danger.Glad I asked a question
You will very likely be in danger if you don't clean your hydration bladder correctly. Those things breed bacteria.

I personally prefer the jug, and you can get 1/2 gallon size if you wish.

The 1 gallon I use is a Coleman, and was $6.95 at ..... er ..... Walmart
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