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Harbor Freight Tag-along ride report


Dave77459

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I recently posted another thread describing my 4424 mile ride to Michigan, towing my Harbor Freight trailer. Towing the trailer was largely a non-event. It felt very smooth behind me, and didn't impact me but for a couple hard stops where I felt the mass pushing me. The hubs always felt cool to the touch.

 

I did have several issues that I would like resolved before my next trip in September. The first is a vibration. The contents of the trailer wore very fast. I had the shell of my wife's helmet wear off, exposing the inside. (I will replace it now) Our air mattress wore a hole; I guess it touched the very long bolts inside the trailer. (I need to cut them off, since they are probably jutting out a good half inch.) Drysacks look thin and worn. Pots and pans have shiny places, etc. The locks vibrated apart--twice! I had to replace them on the road.

 

What causes vibration like that?

 

Second, the tires were bald and showing cord by 2000 miles. (see photo) I had to replace them in the rain in Marquette. The Wal*Mart people wouldn't touch the trailer, but they did lend me tools to do the job efficiently. I was back on the road inside 45 minutes. Now, my new tires look almost the same.

 

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4142/4828385750_ce7696deed.jpg

 

The guy at the Wal*Mart tried balancing the tires. They zeroed out despite the small size, but used 2.5oz on one tire, and 2.25oz on the other! I thought the out-of-balance caused the vibration, but that I still got vibration on the remainder of the ride. (Things inside got even more worn.)

 

What causes this wear pattern? I was under inflated leaving home, and the guys at Wal*Mart made sure they were at manufacturer specs before they gave me the tires. Still, they are worn and I need new tires.

 

I did pull at 70mph almost all the time.

 

The last issue I blame on the Oklahoma construction. My license plate was almost literally torn off the trailer. The left corner was gone, including the bolt, and the right side was cracked and about to come off. I hit a "bump" at a bridge on a resurfacing project, and I think perhaps the trailer was severely tossed.

 

Oh, and with the Wal*Mart inflation, the trailer bounced a lot.

 

Any ideas? Should tires need replacing every 2000 miles??

 

Dave

Edited by Dave77459
forgot to mention I had to repair the lock
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Guest tx2sturgis

Dave....you're running too much air in the tires. And either the rims or the tires are out of round.

 

I'm guessing you had 30 pounds or more of air in those tires. Unless your trailer is REALLY loaded heavy, you should run 15-20 PSI MAX. I run 12 PSI in my small trailer and 20 PSI in my large trailer.

 

Jack up the trailer and use a cinder block and ruler or something similar to judge radial run-out. If you find the rims or tires are out of round by more than about 1/8 inch or so, you will have some bounce problems. Finding the lowest spot on the rim and aligning that with the highest part of the tires might help.

 

Also, did you retain all the stock leafs in your spring packs? Taking one out of each side might help with the ride. Disregard if its a torsion axle.

 

Lastly...pack fragile items on the bike, not the trailer, and arrange the trailer cargo load so that all the heavier, solid items like helmets, propane cylinders, lanterns, pots and pans, things like that are NOT touching each other, and are separated by soft goods, like sleeping bags, blankets, pillows, whatever. Hard sharp edges like the edges of a pan or grill should be protected by wrapping with thick packing like newspaper or use foam pads in between the items.

 

 

 

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Dave, I do not have any answers yet for you, but you absolutely DO have problems with that trailer!!!

 

The vibration would typically be tire balance, and it should be easy to spot by someone following you and carefully watching the edge of the tire at about a 45 degree angle.

 

But balance wouldn't cause the tire wear you show, at least not all the way around. So that kind of vibration may be related to whatever is ruining those tires. Balance vibration would also be relatively low frequency vibration, so I doubt it would cause the surface wear that you described on items inside the box.

 

NO, you should NOT have to replace those tires like that - even in 10,000 miles, they should not be showing any significant wear. I have about 5,000 miles on my super cheapo HF utility trailer, and you cannot tell those tires are not brand new. If the wheel bearings were dragging and causing excessive wear, the hubs should have been real hot. But this is easy to check too - just pick the tire up of the ground and spin it - should do lots of free wheeling with just a light spin. If it quickly slows to a halt in just a turn or two, then you do have a significant drag.

 

My best guess right now is a toe-in or toe-out problem that causes the tires to both drag somewhat as they roll. If the toe is equal on both sides, it wouldn't cause any shimmy or sway, but it would scrub off the tires fast, just like you are seeing. And the tires dragging over the road surface could easily cause a high frequency vibration that would wear out stuff rubbing on the inside of the box too. Unfortunately, toe should not be adjustable (or wrong) on a straight axle, so you may have a crooked axle. That is not my first guess because it would probably cause a big sway as the trailer tried to track sideways. But if it is bad enough, it might just keep forcing the trailer way off to one side and drag the tires, causing the exact problem you show. I'll keep thinking on it and see if anything else comes to mind.

 

You are welcome to drag that thing up here and we'll see what we can find,

Goose

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Your axle must be misaligned or bent. I have pulled my H/F home built project 5K and you cannot detect any wear on the tires. Two things I would advise to check are to measure from the center of the tongue to the front of the tire to insure the axle has been set up correctly, the distance should be equal. Next measure the width between the front of the tires and then the back of the tires, they should be equal as well. something is way out of whack !!!!!

Good Luck

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Thank you everyone for the suggestions. Lots of things to check!

 

The original tires said max inflation was 60psi. Squidley and I inflated them to 25psi when he greased the axles. I thought my load was heavy, so I inflated them to 35psi before the trip.

 

Wal*Mart did not have just the rubber, so I had to buy new rims as well. I left the old rims behind, because I didn't have room for two more tires. :( I went out just now and the left tire is at 45psi, and the right is at 50psi. These tires are also rated for max load at 60psi.

 

When we originally assembled the trailer, Ponch was very careful to make sure the tongue was square to the axle. I can check again, but both tires are wearing the same.

 

Does any of this change opinions, or does it confirm them?

 

Dave

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to much tire pressurewhen just the middle of the tire is worn. also lay a straight piece of angle iron or straight piece of 2x4 on the floor 2x down measure from front side of tire to other font side then do the same with the back do not move angle or 2x witchever you use the measure ment should be the same that will give you the toe mesurement , it works and its cheap I do it on my stock car every wk. Bill

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Guest tx2sturgis
Thank you everyone for the suggestions. Lots of things to check!

 

The original tires said max inflation was 60psi. Squidley and I inflated them to 25psi when he greased the axles. I thought my load was heavy, so I inflated them to 35psi before the trip.

 

Wal*Mart did not have just the rubber, so I had to buy new rims as well. I left the old rims behind, because I didn't have room for two more tires. :( I went out just now and the left tire is at 45psi, and the right is at 50psi. These tires are also rated for max load at 60psi.

 

When we originally assembled the trailer, Ponch was very careful to make sure the tongue was square to the axle. I can check again, but both tires are wearing the same.

 

Does any of this change opinions, or does it confirm them?

 

Dave

 

35 to 50 PSI is TOO much air in the tires...its causing them to wear out in the middle. If your loaded trailer is REALLY heavy, run 25 PSI...if you load it average, then 20 PSI will be fine. Eight inch tires carrying about 100-120 pounds of weight on each tire will be happy at 20 PSI or so.

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Thank you everyone for the suggestions. Lots of things to check!

 

The original tires said max inflation was 60psi. Squidley and I inflated them to 25psi when he greased the axles. I thought my load was heavy, so I inflated them to 35psi before the trip.

 

Wal*Mart did not have just the rubber, so I had to buy new rims as well. I left the old rims behind, because I didn't have room for two more tires. :( I went out just now and the left tire is at 45psi, and the right is at 50psi. These tires are also rated for max load at 60psi.

 

When we originally assembled the trailer, Ponch was very careful to make sure the tongue was square to the axle. I can check again, but both tires are wearing the same.

 

Does any of this change opinions, or does it confirm them?

 

Dave

Dave, none of this changes my opinion - the only thing that could cause such fast wear on both tires, evenly all the way around, is if they were being drig sideways on the road (or drug straight from frozen wheel bearings. My point is, the ONLY way all that rubber is disappearing is if the tires are being DRUG OVER THE ROAD, not just rolling on it.

 

As for all the repeated suggestions that your problem is over inflated tires - I say BS. Yes, over inflation will push out the center of the tire and cause wear there instead of on the shoulders, but if there is not something else causing the tires to slip on the road, such as engine drive power, brakes, or steering, they will simply roll with no particular drag or friction. If there was not something else major wrong, you could put 100 lbs of air in those tires and they would not show any wear in 5,000 miles (assuming they did not explode!).

 

Bottom line is that you must have something wrong that is causing those tires to drag on the road surface.

Goose

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Thanks everyone for your ideas....

 

35 to 50 PSI is TOO much air in the tires...its causing them to wear out in the middle. If your loaded trailer is REALLY heavy, run 25 PSI...if you load it average, then 20 PSI will be fine. Eight inch tires carrying about 100-120 pounds of weight on each tire will be happy at 20 PSI or so.

 

-and-

 

Dave, none of this changes my opinion - the only thing that could cause such fast wear on both tires, evenly all the way around, is if they were being drig sideways on the road (or drug straight from frozen wheel bearings. My point is, the ONLY way all that rubber is disappearing is if the tires are being DRUG OVER THE ROAD, not just rolling on it.

 

As for all the repeated suggestions that your problem is over inflated tires - I say BS. Yes, over inflation will push out the center of the tire and cause wear there instead of on the shoulders, but if there is not something else causing the tires to slip on the road, such as engine drive power, brakes, or steering, they will simply roll with no particular drag or friction. If there was not something else major wrong, you could put 100 lbs of air in those tires and they would not show any wear in 5,000 miles (assuming they did not explode!).

 

Bottom line is that you must have something wrong that is causing those tires to drag on the road surface.

Goose

 

I gather from Goose's post that he thinks the tires should not be wearing. But, Brian is thinking that the wear in the middle is indicative of too much air. I don't see much conflict.

 

I'll reduce the pressure, so that the tire wears evenly across the tread. I guess I also have to look at the axle alignment? The bearings are freshly greased. I didn't mention it, but the trailer does not sway a bit when pulled.

 

This trailer stuff is new and a learning experience. At least I am kinda learning how to back out of a parking spot without jack knifing! :banana:

 

Dave

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If you want to get a hint about what is going on, hook up the trailer, put the bike and trailer on the side of the road where you can go straight for a block or two, put the axle on a couple of bricks to get the tires off the road, then coat the tires with paint or grease. Now ride straight for about a block (maybe less) and then look closely at the surface of the tires. If it is slipping sideways at all, you should be able to see some hint of that from the drag marks on the surface of the tire. I am not sure how obvious this would look, since that kind of wear could be caused by even minor side slip, but the test might be worth a try if you cannot find anything else.

Goose

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I've seen tractor trailer tires do the same thing. Over inflated and stiff suspension causing bounce. Each time the tire lifts up from numerous bouncing/extreme vibration, lifting the tire mostly a fractions of an inch , then touch down on the road surface cause excessive wear and more vibration. Just like seeing an airplane tire first touching down during landing, but at your instance it's continuous. The tire wear will also result to a similar comparison that Goose is saying and tire wearing out the center. If your axle and tongue are true, then I believe it's stiff suspension and over inflated tires. Also did the trailer pull straight? Sometimes I cannot feel the BEEERCART sway side to side even with it's huge size.

Also lay carpet and/or carpet padding in the floor of the box. Deep Orange Shag preferred !

 

 

BEER30

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Guest tx2sturgis

Dave, just google 'overinflated tires' and you will see pictures of tires that look just like yours: all the tread is worn from the center of the tread, and the edges look like they never touched pavement, with all the edge sipes still there. When all the trailer weight is carried on the middle of the tread, the rubber heats up and looses integrity, wearing out FAST.

 

Respectfully Goose, its not BS, its fact. I have over 2.5 million miles in 28 years pulling semi trailers and I know what trailer tires look like when over-inflated. They wear out VERY quickly, in the middle, just like those. I've been pulling lightweight motorcycle trailers for 11 years and I have seen my share of my own tires worn out in the middle. I'm not just guessing here.

 

I dont see any evidence of axle mis-alignment because: He didnt report any wobble, or handling issues, and there is no evidence of 'cupping' on those tires that I can see.

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Guest tx2sturgis
....then coat the tires with paint or grease. Now ride straight for about a block (maybe less) and then look closely at the surface of the tires.

 

 

Dont put paint or grease on the tire tread, loss of trailer control will be the result, not to mention paint or grease all over the trailer and bike.

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Guest tx2sturgis

Also, if the bearings were too tightly torqued the bearings will overheat and fail long before the tires are scrubbed this much.

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I happen to agree with goose. When I first started pulling my trailer i had the tires inflated to the max 60 psi with no adverse wear on the tread. Ive pulled it about 6000 miles since I got it and the tires still lok good. I eneded up on the advice of the group and a few other following me dropping the air preasure down to 15 psi. Its still wag its rearend around but took out the hop that was comming from the air pressure. Ended up checking the axle . It was too short and slightly ascue from square.

 

With 4 ft added to the axle and a adjustment to square it rides behind me straight as an arrow.

 

 

 

Hope this helps. Check the axle if its square then check and see if the wheels are bent in or out slightly. Kinda sounds like misaligned hubs to me . Ive seen it on a few ocasions. Like maybey they are turned in or out a bit. No way those tires should be going out that quick. And just to make sure i just went out and checked my trailer tires. 15 psi and still looks new

 

 

David

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I guess I am willing to test the lower air pressure. Millions of miles is pretty good experience. The trailer is new (500 miles before the trip?) and was aligned when assembled. It is a pretty simple, fixed design... I reckon the tires are true. Maybe out of round.... I'll try the lower pressure and whatever someone wants to look at during the upcoming Houston MD.

 

tx2sturgis, 20psi, you think when I pull the loaded trailer? 15 otherwise? It just seems like the rubber will fall off the wheels. The bearings were pretty darn cool, I must say.

 

BEER30, I could feel and hear it bouncing. Otherwise, it tracked very well. I watched it in the mirror quite a lot. That passes for entertainment on those Oklahoma roads. :) I can well imagine the "airplane touchdown" effect. Not sure about the orange shag. :think:

 

Dave

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Dont put paint or grease on the tire tread, loss of trailer control will be the result, not to mention paint or grease all over the trailer and bike.

Oh, come on, a low speed roll for 1 block isn't going to result in loss of control of anything!

 

As for your other contention about knowing so much about the affects of overinflated trailer tires - I will continue to respectfully disagree. I do not say you are wrong in concept; what you say will show up in normal use. But ain't no way it will show up in 2,000 miles on a motorcycle trailer unless something else is wrong.

 

If you think you can prove me wrong, let's just test it. I'll drag an empty utility trailer with max pressure in the tires for 2,000 miles. You drag whatever you want - it won't make any difference to this test. When we are done and my tires look just like they started, you pay !00% of my costs for the test, plus $100 for good measure. If my tires look like Dave's at the end of the test, I'll pay you instead.

Goose

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Guest tx2sturgis

tx2sturgis, 20psi, you think when I pull the loaded trailer? 15 otherwise? It just seems like the rubber will fall off the wheels.

 

Those little trailers put very little side-load on the tires, even in turns, and I have run 9 PSI in them when lightly loaded, with no problems. Still not convinced? Inflate them to 15 PSI. Have 2 average weight people stand in the trailer while is hooked to the bike and then look at the tires. Now have them jostle up and down in the trailer, by flexing their knees...

 

The tires will flex of course, but not even close to being loaded to the point of flattening out or falling off the rim.

 

A side benefit of running them in 'floatation mode' is that the ride will be MUCH more forgiving...not as much bouncing.

 

The MAX PSI on the tire sidewall is for when the tire has its MAX load of about 900-1100 pounds on them...EACH. You need to de-rate the pressure on these when you derate the load.

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Guest tx2sturgis

If you think you can prove me wrong, let's just test it. I'll drag an empty utility trailer with max pressure in the tires for 2,000 miles. You drag whatever you want - it won't make any difference to this test. When we are done and my tires look just like they started, you pay !00% of my costs for the test, plus $100 for good measure. If my tires look like Dave's at the end of the test, I'll pay you instead.

Goose

 

Empty?

 

His trailer was not empty. It had a load, altho I dont know how much.

 

Hey man, I'm headed to Sturgis in a about a week and a half, your welcome to come along. I could use the money when we get there! If I'm wrong, you get a nearly free trip to the Black Hills!

 

:buttkick:

 

Buy or borrow a trailer and lets do this!

 

Another, simpler way, would be to inflate one tire on a moderately loaded motortcycle trailer (with these 8 inch tires) to 50 PSI and the other to 15 PSI. You will have your answer in 600 miles or less when you look down and see the tread wear discrepancy. Again, I have SEEN this happen.

 

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maybe your problem is similar to mine. I have a 480x8 with integral hub on my sidecar and have been running it at 35psi. My wife says at 20psi she can feel the rim hit the pavement if I hit a bridge deck or skim a pothole. Nevertheless my tire wear is similar at 3K miles, though I still have some rubber in the center. I'm told I should be able to get 8 to 10K miles out of these wheels.

 

I can tell you that at highway speeds (60+) my sidecar tracks straight with no discernible pulling tendency left or right. However (!) at city limit speeds up to 45 or so I do have a tendency to pull right if I let go (the slower the more pull). Granted I only have one wheel, but I suspect toe in is not quite where it should be. Just wish I could see which way the thing is scrubbing (maybe the paint thing would work ...)

 

I'd check wheel alignment versus centerline like Goose suggests, overinflation may make these puppies wear faster in the center but not in 2-3K miles

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Barend, your ideas are interesting, but the situation is totally different. The fact that your bike tracks straight pretty much proves your tire is dragging sideways. If it was aligned perfectly straight, the weight of the hack and the wind resistance would create a terrible pull on the bike. For it to track well, you need both a specific toe-in and a lean-out on the bike. I do speak from experience here,a s I have a bike with a hack.

 

But even with those conditions, you should not be getting the bad wear you suggest - you, too, have a problem with the setup.

Goose

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I am not sure on a trailer that small but all of the trailers that I have owned over the years are designed with a little camber in the tires. some get it by putting a slight bend into the axle and some get it by welding the stubs in at an angle. It might be possible that the axle was built 90* out of phase and the camber is now toe in or toe out.

 

It is simple and cheap to check.

with the trailer up on jacks, remove both tires.

Clamp a straight edge 3 or 4 feet long, centered onto the face of each hub. You can use any thing, a piece of wood, angle iron, what ever is handy, It does not even have to be the same thing on both sides.

with your straight edges parallel to the frame, measure across the front and back edges of the straight edges. The front and rear dimensions should be the same. If the dimensions are not the same then the wheels are not both pointed in the same direction.

 

First do the check then we can figure out what to do about it if there is a problem.

 

It took me longer to type this than it would take me to do it.

This will help to reduce the amount of guessing we have to do.

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