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Thread: Venturedad hitch & single wheel trailer

  1. #46
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    Thumbs up used to be

    There used to be a guy in Arkansas and he made some one wheel trailers that looked like a Thule cargo tube mounted on a small frame ABOVE the single wheel.

    I never saw one in operation, and the website seems to be down now.

    It looked to me like with the cargo above the wheel, that would reduce the vertical load on the hitch, but at the expense of a much higher center-of-gravity, and a higher twisting force on the hitch structure during turns.

    It also looked like it would be subject to a speed-induced wobble on fast sweeping turns. I am constantly on the alert for any kind of trailer oscillation. I have not had any problems, and even in high speed sweeping turns on rough road surfaces, I have never felt any oscillations.

    I CAN feel the trailer back there being moved around by the rough pavement, but have never had a wobble develop.

    In a single-wheel design, in my opinion, the right way to reduce hitch load is by extending the overall length of the trailer, especially the distance between the cargo deck/box and the coupler. Not by placing the load higher above the wheel. If the trailer wheel is a smaller diameter, then that would help with getting the CoG down, and improve handling, but at the expense of trailer stability at moderate speeds.

    On my trailer, the gyroscopic stability begins to kick in around 30 mph, and its fully stable by 40 mph. At speeds above that, the trailer is more or less self-balancing, and does not increase the riders workload at all.

    I'm posting a pic (from another trailer thread) of another members trailer, which shows his bike hooked to a camper trailer. I'm guessing the tongue weight there is around 40 pounds. Maybe 50-60 if a fully loaded cooler is placed on the drawbar.

    My trailer, in the second picture, when fully loaded, puts about 60 pounds on the hitch, but most of the time its NOT fully loaded and the hitch weight is closer to 45 pounds. I've measured this to be sure.

    The last picture shows a similar design that would allow some cargo placement above the wheel, while keeping the CoG low. Its a picture I grabbed off the net last summer and cant remember where I found it.

    It seems to show the trailer without a normal suspension, so I'm guessing its going to have problems with bouncing on rough roads.










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    Last edited by tx2sturgis; 04-02-2012 at 10:03 AM.

  2. #47
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    I have a 'devils advocate' question.... Everyone seems to be concerned about the hitch weight, and it is a valid question, but what about added off center weight?? When leaning the bike...and trailer since it is a one wheel.... does it significantly increase the effort needed to take the bike and trailer off a side stand when fully loaded, or when in a 'oh krap' mode when accidentally getting way off center when stopped just before gently laying it down horizontally.... I think we've all been there at least once.... Also what type of effort would it take to pick the bike and trailer back up on their feet?? Has anyone ever had this happen???

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    I'm just finishing a one wheel trailer designed by ScubaDave on trailer towing forum. I had it hooked to the bike on Saturday, and lifted it off the kick stand (empty). It didn't seem to make that much difference, and I have leveling links that make the bike lean a bit more on the sidestand. I guess we'll see next week when I get it on the road.
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    Thumbs up gone with the wind

    Quote Originally Posted by Condor View Post
    .... does it significantly increase the effort needed to take the bike and trailer off a side stand when fully loaded, or when in a 'oh krap' mode when accidentally getting way off center when stopped just before gently laying it down horizontally.... I think we've all been there at least once.... Also what type of effort would it take to pick the bike and trailer back up on their feet?? Has anyone ever had this happen???

    I have had one 'ooopsie' with the singlewheel trailer attached. One nice thing about this singletrack unit is that if it leans over and takes a nap, it wont hurt any important hardware around the hitch/coupler/frame area as a 2 wheel trailer can. (without a swivel hitch).

    It was noticeably heavier but I was able to lift it all back up to vertical. If I had not been able to, then I would have simply uncoupled the trailer and then lifted the bike upright and then hooked up the trailer afterwards. I dont think the trailer will cause you to have to leave the bike 'horizontal' and go get help, if thats what you're asking.

    In post #39 here, I described the handling at slow speeds and then faster speeds.

    Yes, the trailer is noticeable at parking lot speeds, but still maneuverable if you are careful. At speeds normal for around town its 'there' but not affecting the handling much.

    At cruising speeds, 40 mph and above, its hard to tell its even back there.





  5. #50
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    Thumbs up wind tunnel tested

    Quote Originally Posted by Jactana View Post
    I'm just finishing a one wheel trailer designed by ScubaDave on trailer towing forum. I had it hooked to the bike on Saturday, and lifted it off the kick stand (empty). It didn't seem to make that much difference, and I have leveling links that make the bike lean a bit more on the sidestand. I guess we'll see next week when I get it on the road.

    Thats very similar to mine...I like the neat job he did on the swingarm/torsion bar.

    Let us know how it works out.



  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by tx2sturgis View Post
    I dont think the trailer will cause you to have to leave the bike 'horizontal' and go get help, if thats what you're asking.

    In post #39 here, I described the handling at slow speeds and then faster speeds.

    Yes, the trailer is noticeable at parking lot speeds, but still maneuverable if you are careful. At speeds normal for around town its 'there' but not affecting the handling much.

    At cruising speeds, 40 mph and above, its hard to tell its even back there.
    Not really talking about leaving the bike because help was needed to get it back on it's feet, but having it go down when off center at a lesser angle than a bike without a single wheel trailer. Mention was made about the center of gravity being higher somewhere in a previous post??

    While pulling my two wheel I can't feel any difference in handling at parking lot speeds or at 70 plus. I forget it's there. I did gently drop my 2ndGen in a gas station with the trailer loaded to max, and it didn't effect the 'stand it back up' proccess one bit.

    So from what I can gather, A single wheel trailer is different and does look very cool , and you can get it into a motel room at night , but when full effects low speed manuverability, and may make getting it back up a little more difficult unless unhitching the trailer .....

    IMVHO....

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by tx2sturgis View Post
    There used to be a guy in Arkansas and he made some one wheel trailers that looked like a Thule cargo tube mounted on a small frame ABOVE the single wheel.

    I never saw one in operation, and the website seems to be down now.

    It looked to me like with the cargo above the wheel, that would reduce the vertical load on the hitch, but at the expense of a much higher center-of-gravity, and a higher twisting force on the hitch structure during turns.

    It also looked like it would be subject to a speed-induced wobble on fast sweeping turns. I am constantly on the alert for any kind of trailer oscillation. I have not had any problems, and even in high speed sweeping turns on rough road surfaces, I have never felt any oscillations.

    I CAN feel the trailer back there being moved around by the rough pavement, but have never had a wobble develop.

    In a single-wheel design, in my opinion, the right way to reduce hitch load is by extending the overall length of the trailer, especially the distance between the cargo deck/box and the coupler. Not by placing the load higher above the wheel. If the trailer wheel is a smaller diameter, then that would help with getting the CoG down, and improve handling, but at the expense of trailer stability at moderate speeds.

    On my trailer, the gyroscopic stability begins to kick in around 30 mph, and its fully stable by 40 mph. At speeds above that, the trailer is more or less self-balancing, and does not increase the riders workload at all.

    I'm posting a pic (from another trailer thread) of another members trailer, which shows his bike hooked to a camper trailer. I'm guessing the tongue weight there is around 40 pounds. Maybe 50-60 if a fully loaded cooler is placed on the drawbar.

    My trailer, in the second picture, when fully loaded, puts about 60 pounds on the hitch, but most of the time its NOT fully loaded and the hitch weight is closer to 45 pounds. I've measured this to be sure.

    The last picture shows a similar design that would allow some cargo placement above the wheel, while keeping the CoG low. Its a picture I grabbed off the net last summer and cant remember where I found it.

    It seems to show the trailer without a normal suspension, so I'm guessing its going to have problems with bouncing on rough roads.

    I see, thank you. That makes a lot of sense. Congratulations on a nice build. I understand because you have really done your research and spent a lot of time and money getting it right. Nice job........

    Fuzzy
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  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Condor View Post
    Not really talking about leaving the bike because help was needed to get it back on it's feet, but having it go down when off center at a lesser angle than a bike without a single wheel trailer. Mention was made about the center of gravity being higher somewhere in a previous post??

    While pulling my two wheel I can't feel any difference in handling at parking lot speeds or at 70 plus. I forget it's there. I did gently drop my 2ndGen in a gas station with the trailer loaded to max, and it didn't effect the 'stand it back up' proccess one bit.

    So from what I can gather, A single wheel trailer is different and does look very cool , and you can get it into a motel room at night , but when full effects low speed manuverability, and may make getting it back up a little more difficult unless unhitching the trailer .....

    IMVHO....
    I think you have to bear in mind my single wheel trailer only weight about 80 lbs. empty, and my intention would not to be putting more than 75 lb. to 100 lbs. in it. The trailer is 10" from ground to frame, and additional 18'' to the highest point. The COE is quite low. A previous builder on the trailer towing forum tows one fully loaded behind a 900 Kawasaki and SHE claims its very manageable. With it's 6 1/2 ft length, hitch weight is around 30-40lbs max. I sometimes camp when on trips, and have most of my gear up on the pillion seat, I'd wager that with all the stuff in the trailer it'll be easier to handle. Ron

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    Quote Originally Posted by Condor View Post
    I have a 'devils advocate' question.... Everyone seems to be concerned about the hitch weight, and it is a valid question, but what about added off center weight?? When leaning the bike...and trailer since it is a one wheel.... does it significantly increase the effort needed to take the bike and trailer off a side stand when fully loaded, or when in a 'oh krap' mode when accidentally getting way off center when stopped just before gently laying it down horizontally.... I think we've all been there at least once.... Also what type of effort would it take to pick the bike and trailer back up on their feet?? Has anyone ever had this happen???
    Yes, to all of the questions. When I had my Unigo and it was fully loaded (about 150 lbs total weight) it took a bit more effort to get it off the side stand. You also had to be very careful that you come to a stop with everthing straightened up or you were going over. I know from a rather embarassing moment in Zion Nat'l park. The single wheel trailer tracks very well behind the bike's track and you rarely noticed it on straight roads and gentle sweeping curves. But if you get into a twisty mountain road and have to transition quickly from side to side the extra weght is definitely felt then and you transition time is a bit slower. For the reasons mentioned, I sold the unigo and switched to a Bushtec trailer.

    Dennis

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    Quote Originally Posted by Condor

    Not really talking about leaving the bike because help was needed to get it back on it's feet, but having it go down when off center at a lesser angle than a bike without a single wheel trailer. Mention was made about the center of gravity being higher somewhere in a previous post??

    While pulling my two wheel I can't feel any difference in handling at parking lot speeds or at 70 plus. I forget it's there. I did gently drop my 2ndGen in a gas station with the trailer loaded to max, and it didn't effect the 'stand it back up' proccess one bit.

    So from what I can gather, A single wheel trailer is different and does look very cool , and you can get it into a motel room at night , but when full effects low speed manuverability, and may make getting it back up a little more difficult unless unhitching the trailer .....

    IMVHO....


    Yessir. All trailers will impact the experience of riding, in different ways.

    Single wheelers have very little effect on fuel mileage, and mostly obey the same laws of physics that the motorcycle is subject to. Whether you prefer that or not is up to you.

    I like the fact that for a small additional amount of cargo, it's the right size for me. No it won't carry 150 pounds and 22 cubic ft of stuff. But neither does it cause my fuel mileage or range to change much, if at all.

    And it will fit ANYWHERE the bike will go, between cars in a parking lot for instance, and it doesn't get involved with curbs on tight turns in town.

    It will never catch a bollard in a gas station either.

    So for me, it's working out quite well.






  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by tx2sturgis View Post

    Yessir. All trailers will impact the experience of riding, in different ways.

    Single wheelers have very little effect on fuel mileage, and mostly obey the same laws of physics that the motorcycle is subject to. Whether you prefer that or not is up to you.

    I like the fact that for a small additional amount of cargo, it's the right size for me. No it won't carry 150 pounds and 22 cubic ft of stuff. But neither does it cause my fuel mileage or range to change much, if at all.

    And it will fit ANYWHERE the bike will go, between cars in a parking lot for instance, and it doesn't get involved with curbs on tight turns in town.

    It will never catch a bollard in a gas station either.

    So for me, it's working out quite well.

    Good for you... and keep it above 40....

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    I agree with you Brian, I was only interested in a trailer that allows me to pretty much ride as I do without one. I live in mountainous area with curvy roads. I can't imagine riding here with something that affects the lines I take in the twisties, would suck the fun out of riding for me. Unfortunately, some of the secondary fun roads have less than perfect pavement, so I want something that follows me. My trailer wouldn't have the capacity of a two wheel trailer, but I don't see myself ever needing to take along that much stuff. However with this trailer, I CAN take my golf clubs. (BAG) If this one creates a little more effort at slow speed, so be it. I've a had a number of large heavy motorcycles including a Valkyrie Interstate and this Venture, and knock on wood, haven't dropped one yet. ( A few close calls!) I worked on my trailer tonight, got safety chains installed, all it needs is the rear fender. I'm building that out of a chunk of stainless, it just needs to be bent at a machine shop. Then I'm going to polish it to add a little bling. I've attached some pics of the near finished product. Tomorrow I hope to take her out for her maiden ride, and report back. Cheers, Ron P.S. I really like the flexibility of your open design, I still have an axel and hub left... Hummmm......
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    Last edited by Jactana; 04-04-2012 at 11:48 PM. Reason: Forgot pictures

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    I like the design you have there, except for the placement of the cooler rack. A loaded cooler with ice and drinks mounted up front will transfer all of its weight right to the hitch. Normally with a single wheel design you want the majority of the weight to be carried on the trailer wheel.

    Or maybe you will doing what I do, and that is, use the cooler box to carry misc items like camping supplies or even laundry, and then fill it with ice at the campsite.

    If you can get some pics on the road, be sure to post them!





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    The rack's only 16 x 10, and will only carry a small cooler, either a soft side or L'il Oscar by Coleman. During the day riding I will carry very little in it, maybe a a couple of bottles of water and a little ice. I usually stop on the way to the campground and pick up ice and beer. I'll post pics when it's hooked up to the bike. I was going to go for a ride tonight after work but the weather is looking kind of wet so we'll see. Ron

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    Well the weather finally co-operated today and I got a chance to go out and try towing the new trailer. I put a full size golf bag and clubs in it for some weight. I was a little nervous having read posts regarding the difficulty of low speed handling with a one wheel trailer that some have posted earlier. Now, I have a set of the Diamond R leveling links that were recently installed, and maybe that makes it easier, but I had no issues. I went to a busy gas station and rode around the pumps at walking speed no problem. I went to a side street and pulled a cuople of U-turns, easy as pie. Next, it was out to the highway for some experimentation. Cautiously and gradually, I did lane changes and crossed uneven pavement eventually running up to 160 kph, you don't even know it is there. My only complaint is that I can barely see it in the mirrors, it could come off and I might not notice. I'm totally happy overall. Ron
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