BMW trying to cater to the American Touring market with a new "revised" bike model

Looks like BMW is trying to grab some of the American touring market with the new "2018 K1600B Grand America" model. Guess they are a bit worried about the new Goldwing and I guess new Venture....... and are trying to adapt to cater to the US rider preferences (forward controls and floorboards) rather than traditional European styling. Looks interesting! What do you guys and gals think?

Here is a nice article about the new model: https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2017/11/07/2018-bmw-k-1600-grand-america-first-look-fast-facts/

Here is what she looks like:

No mention of price. But I think I would put it on a short list if I was in the market depending on the $$. Its not a V-Twin but hey....... LOL

I LOVE it!!! I think Beemer did a bang up job in their effort in competing in their market segment with this one.. Personally,, and this is strickly a matter of opinion, I don't see to much connection between this one and the new Venture as far as competition goes but I certainly do see a steady level focus on the new Wing!! That Venture is a spot on shot for attracting the empty nesters in the Vic market (again, IMHO) and maybe some folks who aren't happy with HD for one reason or another but this Beemer and the Honda are in a totally different league.. Beautiful scoot Beemer = very well done from what I see and read! THANK YOU for maintaining your performance edge - there are still a number of folks out here that LOVE to be able to twist it up for a real thrill and totally appreciate that COME ALIVE feeling even in our touring bikes - YEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAWWW! Wonder where the $$ mark is gonna fall on this new one,, while I still think 25k to 30K U.S. is INSANE for 2 wheels and a motor I hope Beemer found a way to tag it somewhere in that range so it remains competitive $$ wise too. If this were so, maybe there are will be more of those gorgeous bikes out and about to play with while out CTFW!!

Something I dont get about the new Honda is that they seem to have poked their fingers into more of the sport touring thought (which, being a MK1 1st Gen rider for all these years = I can relate to) with the clam shells and weight loss - I can see that in this new Beemer too. Then they REALLY sharpened their pencils and upped the game with the 4 valve heads but they held back on the HP gains that could have been theirs.. IMHO, 5 HP just doesnt seem like a lot of gain for the RnD costs.. They didnt post numbers at the beginning (I get suspicious whenever they don't post numbers on new designed motors - makes me wanna ask why) of the intro and when I saw that they had dropped intake size I pretty much new those numbers were not gonna compete with the Beemer's.. Shame too cause I think that flat 6 could have really sang a new tune!! I know one thing,, if I am ever at a Rally and have to choose between demoing a touring bike with 100 horse or one with 160 horse - you will find ol Puc over in the 160 Horse line quicker than you can say - "Mom Yam shoulda put a 1700cc V-4 in the new Venture"

Love it! V-twin! Heck NO! Air Cooled! Heck NO! Heart palpitations acceleration! Heck YES!

I like it. I wonder what the long term engine life for the BMW 1600cc is?? Are these engines designed to go 200,000 miles wo an overhaul?

I think I would take the original euro version. Save for some highway pegs. The lack of Americanized styling aint such a bad thing.

Either way it's a bike that has long had my respect and I haven't even ridden one yet. Between bikes like this and the new wing it wont matter that Yamaha has decided to take a break from designing and manufacturing dedicated performance tourers.

I like it. Maybe more than the new Goldwing which is 300lbs heavier. I wonder what the long term engine life for the BMW 1600cc is?? Are these engines designed to go 200,000 miles wo an overhaul?

With a full 7-gallon fuel tank, the BMW K1600 Grand America claims an unladen weight of 802.4 pounds

According to Honda the new Goldwing Tour weighs 842lbs wet.

With a full 7-gallon fuel tank, the BMW K1600 Grand America claims an unladen weight of 802.4 pounds

 

According to Honda the new Goldwing Tour weighs 842lbs wet.

I thought the new GW was weighing in over 1,000 lbs. I guess I need to look at the specs for it again.

The more I research this new BMW the more I love it! It has officially been added to the top of my "potential next bike" list.

Here is a great video walk around of the actual bike:

Its like my 1986 MKII first Gen Venture had "Relations" with my 1999 BMW K1200LT, and made a sporty touring baby called the K1600 Grand American! The perfect motorcycle based on my current riding preferences!

+ =

Wonder where the $$ mark is gonna fall on this new one,, while I still think 25k to 30K U.S. is INSANE for 2 wheels and a motor I hope Beemer found a way to tag it somewhere in that range so it remains competitive $$ wise too.

Hi cowpuc, I totally agree with you about the price of bike's now a days especially for BMW which usually means "Bring More Wallet" based on my experience as a BWM motorcycle and car owner.......from what I've been able to dig up we might have a winner here. BMW have not announced the price for this new "Grand American" model yet, but that bike is based on the K1600B which is basically the exact same just missing the top case and a few extra bells and whistles. Now the good news is the K1200B was announced a few months back with a price tag of "The BMW K 1600 B Bagger price for the USA will be $19,995 (MSRP), plus a $495 destination fee."

Here is the article stating that detail about the K1600B pricing: https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2017/03/20/2018-bmw-k-1600-b-bagger-price-announced-usa/

So I'm hoping that the Grand American version will remain in the low $20K range which is not bad by today's standards.

The K1600B is a sexy bike by itself too......K1600B reminds me of what Honda did with the Goldwing F6B vs the Fully dressed Goldwing:

Nobody's mentioned it yet, and maybe my eyesight is getting blurry, but with the angular styling it almost looks like a new generation 1st generation. A genuine sports tourer....

Hi cowpuc, I totally agree with you about the price of bike's now a days especially for BMW which usually means "Bring More Wallet" based on my experience as a BWM motorcycle and car owner.......from what I've been able to dig up we might have a winner here. BMW have not announced the price for this new "Grand American" model yet, but that bike is based on the K1600B which is basically the exact same just missing the top case and a few extra bells and whistles. Now the good news is the K1200B was announced a few months back with a price tag of "The BMW K 1600 B Bagger price for the USA will be $19,995 (MSRP), plus a $495 destination fee."

Here is the article stating that detail about the K1600B pricing: https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2017/03/20/2018-bmw-k-1600-b-bagger-price-announced-usa/

 

So I'm hoping that the Grand American version will remain in the low $20K range which is not bad by today's standards.

 

The K1600B is a sexy bike by itself too......K1600B reminds me of what Honda did with the Goldwing F6B vs the Fully dressed Goldwing:

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=110940

:scared:,,, FOR REAL @VanRiver = ABSOLUTELY FOR REAL!! :scared:

and I quote!!

"""The BMW K 1600 B Bagger price for the USA will be $19,995 (MSRP), plus a $495 destination fee.

The K 1600 B is a close relative to the K 1600 GT and GTL, and features the 1649cc inline-6 cylinder that produces 160 horsepower at 7759 rpm and 129 ft/lbs of torque at 5250 rpm. The bike—a direct aim at the Honda Gold Wing F6B—was designed to appeal to the American bagger market, and is designed to be low and sleek.

The BMW Bagger arrives standard with three riding modes (Rain, Road, and Dynamic), Dynamic Traction Control, cornering-optimized integral ABS Pro, heated seats and hand grips, power adjustable windshield, cruise control, multifunction display with on-board computer, and Dynamic Electronic Suspension Adjustment (D-ESA) with “Road” and “Cruise” damping modes."""

Gonna chat with ya here Riv just like we was sittin at a camp fire toasting Hot Dogs and burnin Martian Mellow's so please take this comment in the same relaxed way that it is given... WHAT IN THE WILD WILD WORLD OF CTFW IS MOM YAM DOING (and HD and Polaris)?? Makes absolutely NO sense to me!! A quick overview of this scoot and I am beyond the words of I JUST DONT GET IT.. Turns Hot Dog over so it don't burn:big-grin-emoticon:,,, how can an air cooled, belt drive, push rod motored touring bike be so much more $$ on the open market?? Just makes no sense..

I guess it all kind of goes back to an experience I had while goofing off at our local HD shop a number of years ago (said I dont get it,, never ever said I have anything against those V-Twin scoot - fact is,, I LOVE em,,, I just think they are wayyyyyyyyyyy over priced for what they are).. It was the middle of the winter, bunch of my buddies and I were sitting around the table at the Hog Shop drinking coffee and they were watching me gang up on em about how much faster my beat up ol 1st Gen was over their 103 Twin Cam's when a pretty little Street Glide caught my eye - I got up and went over to pet the pretty thing..Setting beside the little black Street Glide was a real pretty Electra Glide Classic - pretty little red one that I couldnt help but pat on the head too while I was standing there.. After turning the tags over on em, I happen to notice they were exactly the same price..

The salesman (another buddy of ours who was also sitting around drinking coffee with us) follows me over and makes his usual snide comment about it being time for me to move up into the 21st Century in my motorcycle collection and buy a new Harley from him.. About the time I finished divulging endless knowledge upon him about why there was no way on God's green earth I would pay $6000 more for that pretty little Classic than I would for the brand new shaft drive, water cooled Gen 2 Venture that I knew was setting down at the Yam Shop I noticed the price for the Classic and the Street Glide were exactly the same..

This caused me pause because the Street Glide appeared to be exactly the same scoot as the Classic except the Street Glide was missing the tour pack (trunk), some chrome and a radio = basically meaning the Street Glide was a stripped Classic for the same money:confused24:... Of course,, there was no way I was gonna leave my buddy the HD saleman standing there without inquiring as to whether or not they (the HD shop employee's) had been making their coffee out of lead contaminated water and drinking the stuff cause that pricing (like this idea of spending a lot more and getting a lot less with the air cooled/water cooled comparison) made no sense.

After verifying with the saleman that the bikes were literally the same minus the stuff I could physically see was missing (they had same frame/motor/wheels/tanks), I asked my friend how much it would cost to put a tour pack on the Street Glide.. He didnt know for sure so we headed to the parts counter to find out (thinking to myself = this'll be good).. After confirming that it was in fact over 3 grand in parts to add on the missing tour pack I looked at my buddy and asked him if he saw anything parculiar out what we just found out.. He said no..

I then told him that it just made no sense to me why a person,, any person, would pay the same price for exactly the same bike only missing half its parts:confused24:... I said,, why wouldnt any sane person simply buy the bike with all the fixens (the Street Glide was also missing lots of Chrome pieces that the Classic had on it as well as the radio = we didnt even price those missing parts out so the actual $$ difference was certainly above 4g), pull the parts off that he didnt want and, if nothing else, sell em on ebay? Or,, hang on to them just in case he ever wanted to go farther then the local bar scene and needed a tour pack to put his clothes in? Made no sense!

This is when my HD salesman buddy enlightened me as to where we are current new motorcycle purchasing philosophy.. He told me that the stripped Street Glide was, in fact, HD's best seller!! That normal people dont think like I think about getting more bang for their buck. That, for a fact,, that stripped Street Glide outsold the Classic by a 10 to 1 margin and that in this case, people really do prefer less product for more money!!

Nobody's mentioned it yet, and maybe my eyesight is getting blurry, but with the angular styling it almost looks like a new generation 1st generation. A genuine sports tourer....

 

https://2yrh403fk8vd1hz9ro2n46dd-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/2018-bmw-k-1600-grand-america-first-look-fast-facts-12-400x300.jpg http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=110941

ABSOLUTELY right on the money Jack!!!!! Believe it or not,, I thought the same thing when I peeked at the new Wing!! Clam shell's and all!! GOOD EYE BROTHER!!!!!

I know,,, this is gonna sound like another one of my endless broken record commentary things but I just have to say it,,,, what about the REAL Elephant In The Room when doing our comparison's:

160 horsepower at 7759 rpm and 129 ft/lbs of torque at 5250 rpm

Nice looking bike. I see they kept "needle gauges" instead of digital led readouts. I see the placement of the speakers for the sound system but do not see any speakers for the passenger. I would need a backrest. That is the best thing on DOT in my mind. Beamers seats always look hard to me.

Holy smokes Batman.......I think I'm in love!!!!

Take a look at this thing (K1600B) in action, smoking the tires under the control of a professional.

I know,,, this is gonna sound like another one of my endless broken record commentary things but I just have to say it,,,, what about the REAL Elephant In The Room when doing our comparison's:

 

 

160 horsepower at 7759 rpm and 129 ft/lbs of torque at 5250 rpm

 

 

Holy smokes Batman.......I think I'm in love!!!!

 

Take a look at this thing (K1600B) in action, smoking the tires under the control of a professional.

 

I seen this guy do his stunts at Cherrokee back in October on the same BMW 1600B. They both were awesome too watch a lot of power and bike for the money. It will do wheel stands and melt that back tire if you so desire.

Holy smokes Batman.......I think I'm in love!!!!

 

Take a look at this thing (K1600B) in action, smoking the tires under the control of a professional.

 

OUTSTANDING!! One of my favorites parts of this is where he uses the pipes for wheelie bars :happy65::happy65::happy65::banana:!!! I LOVE the "Formula 1" sound of this scoot,, you can tell just by the way it sounds it has that "Poe ahead gunk, make my day" attitude about it = even in stock form!!

Think I am in love too Riv!!!! What's not to LOVE about a sweetheart machine like that!!

Impressive ride, but reckless to drive around kids like that.

All I can say is WOW !!! That is one sweet bike ! What Yamaha should have done ! I'll be looking for a test ride next season. If it is in the $20,000 US$ range...

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/global/article/detail/T0275470EN/the-new-bmw-k-1600-grand-america?language=en

https://rideapart.com/articles/gold-wing-killer-bmw-introduces-k-1600-grand-america

https://rideapart.com/articles/2018-bmw-k-1600-b-first-ride

(note comment about engine heat - "at crawling speeds the engine can get pretty hot. Possibly too hot." - same motor? But reviewer still says "one of the best bikes I’ve ever ridden. Maybe even the best bike")

https://movetenms.com/2017/08/31/2018-bmw-k-1600-b-bagger-road-test-review/

VanRiver,,, Hey Riv - been somewhat laid up for a tad here and spending some time poking thru bike rags.. I may (or may not have = depending on ones need for performance) have found the elephant in the room on the new Beemer.. From what I have read, they are speed limiting the American tourer at 101 mph:95: .. Apparently this is being done with the ECU (no simple little snipping of a little grey wire like on the Yamaha dual sport bikes of the late 90's). To many varmints I am sure this doesnt mean a lot but to some folks (myself included) I highly suspect that waving to an old 1985 1340cc air cooled v-twin EVO Harley touring bike passing them at 109 mph (their top speed back in the late 80's) would be problematic = especially people like myself who have ridden a sport bike (R1) that sounds similar to that AWESOME tone of the 1600 Beemer but has a top speed of 104 mph,,, in 1st gear .. Personally,, I like my right wrist to be the sole speed limiter..

Not attempting to brother but,,, common - give us 160 AWESOME horse in a scoot that sounds like a Formula 1 race car and then neuter it?

Might be something in the water though,, some kind of legal stuff going on cause I also just read that the new Wing is also gonna be speed limited to just over 100..

If my hunches are true with the legal stuff (international legal/regulations having to do with the upcoming EU regulations that have been rumored for 2020) being reasons for this = maybe there is more to Mom Yam's decision to not go to the hassle/costs/RnD involved with using the new V-Max motor in the Venture.. Now I wonder if it, the new Venture is speed limited too.. We may be in the era of seeing the return of the smaller, less powerful touring bikes... I keep looking at pics of the new one and have developed another one of my infamous theories = I think Mom Yam engineers were right in the middle of designing that exact scoot around using the 1700cc V-Max motor and then something went hay wire and they decided to use the air cooled powerhead.. The more I stare at that new Yam the more it just looks like it is set up for the V-4..

Thoughts? Anyone? Am I on the right site? The one where we still talk motorcycles?

This is what I googles on the GTL and GT K1600.

The K1600GTL is also electronically restricted to a top speed of 136mph (220kph) compared with the GT's unrestricted maximum of 155mph (250kph), and this is the reason it has a higher maximum payload, despite the softer suspension – fully loaded at close to 150mph it could become unstable.

And this:

The K1600GTL is electronically speed limited to 140 mph, due to aerodynamic concerns from the large trunk. The K1600GT has no speed limiter, and we've seen as high as 158 mph (GPS confirmed). Running at 120 mph can be reasonably safe for a skilled rider on an open, flat, clear section of highway.

This is what I googles on the GTL and GT K1600.

 

The K1600GTL is also electronically restricted to a top speed of 136mph (220kph) compared with the GT's unrestricted maximum of 155mph (250kph), and this is the reason it has a higher maximum payload, despite the softer suspension – fully loaded at close to 150mph it could become unstable.

 

And this:

 

The K1600GTL is electronically speed limited to 140 mph, due to aerodynamic concerns from the large trunk. The K1600GT has no speed limiter, and we've seen as high as 158 mph (GPS confirmed). Running at 120 mph can be reasonably safe for a skilled rider on an open, flat, clear section of highway.

Im sure if someone really needed that last bit of land speed the electronic governor can be altered or removed with and ECU reflash. It is very common for USA spec German vehicles to be governed. My experience with german cars is 155mph gov, some of them wont get there but others will. I had an 02 (03 model) S600 and PO replaced all four ECUs with Rentek ECUs, not only increasing boost but removing the top speed gov. After a few high speed passes I can see why they have the limit, that car became a 5500 lb ballistic missile that would easily and quickly exceed 155. It was stable at all speeds but very spookey to go so obscenely fast in such a huge car. I think I would probably leace that gov in place haha.

I love German stuff, they consistently create stuff that hits the spot perfectly. This K bike seems like an ultimate touring machine. Now that I think about it, would the new Goldwing even exist without it? Ill bet the K bike raised the bar enough that Honda could not ignore the shots fired by BMW, even though Yamaha seems pretty comfortable turning the other cheek and instead picking a fight with HD.

This is like the HP wars of tbe 60s, we all win!

Hey @cowpuc, sorry to hear you're "laid up"! Wish you all the best while you recover buddy!!!! Thanks for doing some "motorcycle homework" while you're taking it easy.

I'm depressed now....Totally neutered.......like owning a Lamborghini but only being able to drive it on Sundays in play ground zones! You would get eaten alive on the German Autobahn with that BEAMER maxed out at 101 mph!

The one bright light in all of this is that now a days motorcycles are like rolling computers.......therefore I betcha some smart lady or fella will build a performance "Chip" that will tweek, fine tune, and probably eliminate these uncalled for "limitations".

I currently have "chipped" FiFi my 1999 K1200LT so it runs better, stronger, cleaner with my performance exhaust and missing catalytic converter......plus I have noticable more horse power and higher gas mileage all from an updated Chip installed in my bikes ECU which I got off a Guy on Ebay (located in Greece) for $99.00. Took me 30 minutes to swap the chip and she runs sweeter then she did when she was brainwashed by Mother BMW. Thank goodness for computers and smart IT people that ride and tinker with Motorcycles!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-PERFORMANCE-JOHNS-TUNING-CHIP-FOR-BMW-MOTO-K1100-K1200-LT-GT-RS/122833226735?hash=item1c996e4bef:g:tRMAAOSwB09YIe5e&vxp=mtr

VanRiver,,, Hey Riv - been somewhat laid up for a tad here and spending some time poking thru bike rags.. I may (or may not have = depending on ones need for performance) have found the elephant in the room on the new Beemer.. From what I have read, they are speed limiting the American tourer at 101 mph:95: .. Apparently this is being done with the ECU (no simple little snipping of a little grey wire like on the Yamaha dual sport bikes of the late 90's). To many varmints I am sure this doesnt mean a lot but to some folks (myself included) I highly suspect that waving to an old 1985 1340cc air cooled v-twin EVO Harley touring bike passing them at 109 mph (their top speed back in the late 80's) would be problematic = especially people like myself who have ridden a sport bike (R1) that sounds similar to that AWESOME tone of the 1600 Beemer but has a top speed of 104 mph,,, in 1st gear .. Personally,, I like my right wrist to be the sole speed limiter..

Not attempting to brother but,,, common - give us 160 AWESOME horse in a scoot that sounds like a Formula 1 race car and then neuter it?

Might be something in the water though,, some kind of legal stuff going on cause I also just read that the new Wing is also gonna be speed limited to just over 100..

If my hunches are true with the legal stuff (international legal/regulations having to do with the upcoming EU regulations that have been rumored for 2020) being reasons for this = maybe there is more to Mom Yam's decision to not go to the hassle/costs/RnD involved with using the new V-Max motor in the Venture.. Now I wonder if it, the new Venture is speed limited too.. We may be in the era of seeing the return of the smaller, less powerful touring bikes... I keep looking at pics of the new one and have developed another one of my infamous theories = I think Mom Yam engineers were right in the middle of designing that exact scoot around using the 1700cc V-Max motor and then something went hay wire and they decided to use the air cooled powerhead.. The more I stare at that new Yam the more it just looks like it is set up for the V-4..

Thoughts? Anyone? Am I on the right site? The one where we still talk motorcycles?

This is what I googles on the GTL and GT K1600.

 

The K1600GTL is also electronically restricted to a top speed of 136mph (220kph) compared with the GT's unrestricted maximum of 155mph (250kph), and this is the reason it has a higher maximum payload, despite the softer suspension – fully loaded at close to 150mph it could become unstable.

 

And this:

 

The K1600GTL is electronically speed limited to 140 mph, due to aerodynamic concerns from the large trunk. The K1600GT has no speed limiter, and we've seen as high as 158 mph (GPS confirmed). Running at 120 mph can be reasonably safe for a skilled rider on an open, flat, clear section of highway.

I get that and really do understand the reason(s) but what I still dont get is why.. Why do I need someone who thinks they know what is best for me to make the final decision of whether or not what they think is best for me is the same as what I decide is best for me = totally old school straight up American individual independant thinking - I know,, but still,, its the way I think..

In my way of thinking, those old stickers on the new bikes and quads and stuff that read = always wear your helmet, operate under adult supervision and obey all traffic laws should be good enough :big-grin-emoticon:101

I have read a lot about possible "litigations" being the reason for the limiters too.. It would seem to me that if the manufacturer says they are limiting the speeds at 101 mph because the bike can be unstable above those speeds that if some knuckle head now gets in an accident at speeds below 101 because he lost control - he could very easily sue and win against the company by claiming they were negligent in stating the bike was suppose to be stable under 101 mph..

Im sure if someone really needed that last bit of land speed the electronic governor can be altered or removed with and ECU reflash. It is very common for USA spec German vehicles to be governed. My experience with german cars is 155mph gov, some of them wont get there but others will. I had an 02 (03 model) S600 and PO replaced all four ECUs with Rentek ECUs, not only increasing boost but removing the top speed gov. After a few high speed passes I can see why they have the limit, that car became a 5500 lb ballistic missile that would easily and quickly exceed 155. It was stable at all speeds but very spookey to go so obscenely fast in such a huge car. I think I would probably leace that gov in place haha.

 

I love German stuff, they consistently create stuff that hits the spot perfectly. This K bike seems like an ultimate touring machine. Now that I think about it, would the new Goldwing even exist without it? Ill bet the K bike raised the bar enough that Honda could not ignore the shots fired by BMW, even though Yamaha seems pretty comfortable turning the other cheek and instead picking a fight with HD.

 

This is like the HP wars of tbe 60s, we all win!

Hey cowpuc, sorry to hear you're "laid up"! Wish you all the best while you recover buddy!!!! Thanks for doing some "motorcycle homework" while you're taking it easy.

 

I'm depressed now....Totally neutered.......like owning a Lamborghini but only being able to drive it on Sundays in play ground zones! You would get eaten alive on the German Autobahn with that BEAMER maxed out at 101 mph!

 

The one bright light in all of this is that now a days motorcycles are like rolling computers.......therefore I betcha some smart lady or fella will build a performance "Chip" that will tweek, fine tune, and probably eliminate these uncalled for "limitations".

 

I currently have "chipped" FiFi my 1999 K1200LT so it runs better, stronger, cleaner with my performance exhaust and missing catalytic converter......plus I have noticable more horse power and higher gas mileage all from an updated Chip installed in my bikes ECU which I got off a Guy on Ebay (located in Greece) for $99.00. Took me 30 minutes to swap the chip and she runs sweeter then she did when she was brainwashed by Mother BMW. Thank goodness for computers and smart IT people that ride and tinker with Motorcycles!

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-PERFORMANCE-JOHNS-TUNING-CHIP-FOR-BMW-MOTO-K1100-K1200-LT-GT-RS/122833226735?hash=item1c996e4bef:g:tRMAAOSwB09YIe5e&vxp=mtr

Thanks for the well wish Riv - getting stronger everyday again but getting down right tired of foolin with this nonsense.. Truthfully brother = I'd rather be shoveling Wisconsin White Wash but I do totally appreciate your concern!!

Casey and Riv,, I aint much learnered in tweakin on the efi/ecm/ecu scoots = more of a carb/points ignition old schooler myself BUT - I have tinkered with some of this stuff (almost exclusively HD). I am aware of and have fooled with HD's in using their "Screaming Eagle" tuners of the past which gave total access to mapping and making it possible for the owner/operator/dyno guy to adjust all parameters at will = WAYYYYY WAYYY cool stuff and TOTALLY my kind of thinking AND lines up with what you two are talking about!! I would be 100% good with this if it were still good to go..

Problem:

Not to long ago HD got nailed for these "tuners" that left it all up to the owner.. HD ended up having to pay fines for these now "illegal" tuners (millions of dollars is my understanding) and had to purchase them back. There is now a "street tuner" available that no longer allows adjustments of certain things that have been deemed no pass zones.

I think it is wayy cool that you could "chip" your Beemer Riv (hey Riv, did you happen to notice where that chip came from in Greece? Thessolinca? Wonder if thats the same Thessolinca as the one in the Bible = 1st and 2nd Thessolonians?? Ol Puc,, he may be slippin but his pea brain still dont miss that much!! Tip just said it was ok for me to order a "chip" like you got just to get something from the Thessalonians ) but I have my doubts that it included a speed limiter eliminator if your scoot had one? I just have this underlying thought that this speed limiter thing (not talking rev limiter - those typically protect the engine from grenading and most authorities dont care if our engines blow up) is straight up not gonna fly.

Will the aftermarket have one for us? I think this is slowly becoming a thing of the past with smart motorcycles with big mouths now being the norm. Some of this stuff records every move we make including tip overs, top speeds, top r's, ecm's that are ONLY functional on bikes that match the original VIN's and on and on.. I know that HD has become VERY strick on what they will work on, what they will warranty and the like because of the outlay in fines they have paid.

Maybe it's all this medical stuff I have been going thru or just grumpy old age setting in that is turning into some kind of a conspiritory suspicious type but I really dont like what I see happening.. Sing this to the tune of "dont fence me in" =

Give me R's lots of R's with unlimited horse power at my control = dont fence me in.. Give me R's endless R's at my choice of when it's used = dont fence me in.