What WE MAKE cagers think

[Marcarl]

What do we make cagers think when we share the road, and related thoughts.

Often and most time we blame the cager for not seeing us. This maybe true, but no matter who's to blame for the mishaps or near mishaps, riders still end up with the short end of the stick, and are the ones who have to deal with the worst aftermath. How to minimize these situations is an ongoing discussion and I would like to add to it from a different point of view.

First, lets accept the fact that an accident is the fault of those involved, in our case the rider and the cager. We all know that the cager will not 'see us', so it's up to us to avoid being hit. The cager is no help in this department. With that in mind here's my thoughts:

TWO LANE ROAD:

1) Always ride the left hand track, in the right hand track we get lost in the scenery and we tell others that we are not really a contender in the traffic.

2) When approaching an intersection and you have a left turner coming toward you, stay in the left hand track. If you move over to the right hand track you are telling the cager that you are making a right turn, and guess what, he's going first, and right into your path cutting off all chance of escape. If you stay in the left track and he does turn in front of you, you have a chance of going behind him. However small that opening may be, it’s may be the only one you’ve got.

3) When traveling down the road stay with the traffic speed. You are telling the cager that you are part of his environment and not just something to get out of the way. Keep your left track and block your lane. If you move to the right track you are telling them: I’m trying to give you room to pass me, try it if you think it’s ok and take me out in the process. It also gives you a better vision to the front and traffic coming towards you are also aware of your presence and so have to contend with you.

4) Always and always block your lane. You paid for it as much as anyone else, you have a right to it and it’s yours to use to your full advantage.

5) When making a right hand turn never use the right hand track, in doing so you are telling the cager that it’s ok for him to try and squeeze by you, but often times there’s not quite enough room and over you go.

6) When making a left turn use the center right track and so block your lane. Sure the cager has to wait to go past you, but then he does for anyone else as well so why not for you. If he knows he’s going to take you out he will contend with you, but if he can put you on the side in his mind, you’re the one who deals with the problems. Further more if the cager thinks that he can scoot past you and stay on the pavement he will, force him to leave the pavement and he will give you a wider berth.

7) Never give a cager the idea that you may even want to share your lane with him, it’s yours, you paid for it, at present you own it and are using it and he’s to keep away from you.

8) When stopped at a light or stop sign, tell others by your action that you own the lane, park crosswise in the middle if that’s what it takes, just don’t let anyone even think that there may be a chance that they could squeeze by.

FOUR LANE, Two lanes in either direction.

I find that sometimes it feels safer in the right and other times safer in the left. I’m not really stuck on the one vs. the other.

1) When in the right lane be visible and use the left track, when in the left lane be just as visible and use the right track. Again, let others know that you intend to be a contender in traffic and they will have to deal with you. This may seem to be an aggressive way of thinking and doesn’t fly with the thought that we are super vulnerable. We are super vulnerable and should never forget that fact, but that doesn’t mean that we need to tell the cager that. Let him know that we are part of the world he has to deal with and it will be much harder for him to put us aside mentally.

2) When passing continue to use the proper tracks. You may feel safer in the other track, but you won’t be taking over your rightful lane, you will be unnoticed, and therefore uncared for.

3) When doing an exit, continue to claim your right to your lane as long as possible, nobody will run you down, but if you fade to the right to try and get out the way then others will take your lane away from you before they should.

These are just some thoughts, hopefully helpful, but I’m not an expert by any stretch of the imagination. Lets use this to start a discussion and to educated each other more fully. Got some helpful insight? Some good pointers? Type away and help the rest of us as well.

[Gentleman George]

Pretty good Marcarl and I totaly agree with the pysco of it however If the driver thinks your being to assertive (agressive ) and goes into a fit of roadrage,,, all that goes out the (window if I had one) and its cover your ass any way you can,and get the hell out of there.....
:cool10:

[Dusk]

I do most of what you wrote. Some of it I never noticed. I tell people who ride that we need to be very proactive, not reactive. I love to ride. I enjoy the ride. But i always assume that I am in danger. No in a scary way, but I never let my guard down. I use my scoot as my primary vehicle. I commute to work. I make it a point to be as visable as I can an position myself so that I do block vehicles around me. I don't want to leave a gap.

I am glad you wrote this.

[SilvrT]

That's great information. Seems it's what many of us do without realizing it. Nice to have it laid down in writing...sort of solidifys things.

I'd like to add... when passing on a 2 lane...I tend to stay in the right groove of the passing lane. That way, I remain in the side view mirror of the person I'm passing longer and, if I have to get back into my own lane quickly, I have less distance to do so. (that method may be right or it may be wrong but that's what I do)

[RustyNails]

Good info. I'd also like to point out that most motorcyclist I see on the road don't leave enough room between themselves and the vehicles in front of or behind them.

This is especially hazardous when approaching an intersection, if you are following a vehicle and are closer than 4 car lengths at city speeds then you are too close if someone is wanting to make a left as soon as the car in front passes by. You are too close for the driver to see you and he will make his move, right in to your path. If you are in the right wheel track, then you are inviting trouble.

When on a two lane highway I ride the left wheel track and make sure that I can see the mirror of the vehicle I am following, this also allows me to see what traffic ahead is doing. Also I find that most cagers will follow me at about the same distance I am following the vehicle ahead of me. If I am too close then they will follow me too close. If they are following me too close and I am at the right distance I will slow down until they get the message.

Always "Ride To Be Seen!"

[Freebird]

These are all good suggestions. To me, probably the single most important thing about riding is FOCUS. Do not get distracted by the pretty lady walking down the street, the cool car parked on the side of the road, etc. You MUST be observant about what is going on and what MIGHT happen in front of or behind you. Basic defensive driving.

I also want to point out another thing that some of you may not agree with. I know that we have some truckers here and to be honest, I sometimes think that they get the raw deal when it comes to placing blame. Most of you know that I'm on the road almost all the time and I can tell you that while there are a few bad truckers out there, there are far more very bad drivers of family sedans, pickups, etc. Those trucks do not stop on a dime and they take a lot of room sometimes to turn and perform other simple tasks. As I watch some of the idiot drivers that are running around in their sedans, coupes, etc., I can only imagine the challenge that some of them cause the truck drivers.

When you hear about a bike or even a car accident where a truck turned in front of the rider or driver and there was a wreck, you can't always assume that it was the truckers fault. On our busy streets in some cities, if a truck waited until there was absolutely nobody coming from the other direction, we would have traffic jams that would grind our cities to a halt. The trucks simply can't make the turns where there are no lights quickly enough that oncoming traffic does not have to sometimes stop and wait for a few seconds or a minute. They have to wait until they do not cut somebody so close that they CAN'T slow down or stop and that's just the way it is.

I say this from personal experience. About 12-14 years ago, I was living in San Diego. I was driving down the road one day when a Semi coming from the other direction turned in front of me. Luckily, I was driving a car and not a motorcycle at the time and locked up my brakes but couldn't stop in time. I ended up turning just enough to crash into the rear tires of the truck instead of going under the trailer. It didn't quiet total my car but came very close. Due to the fact that I had my seat belt on and my airbag deployed, I manage to walk away from it with no injuries.

A couple of days later I got the accident report and was shocked that they found me to be at fault. I was very angry at the time and thought how in the world can I be at fault when he turned in front of me. The fact is though, after I cooled down and got over my denial, I knew that it was the right conclusion. I should NOT have been driving that day. I was having a personal problem and my mind was NOT on the road. I was looking away down another street and can't honestly say how long it had been since I had looked at where I was actually going. Had I been paying attention, I would have seen the truck making the turn and would easily have had time to slow down and even come to a normal stop had I needed to. They were able to tell by my skid marks and by how far back I had hit the truck and how far he was already through the turn that I had reacted much later than I should have.

It was a just call on the part of the investigator. As I look back on it now, I am glad that some innocent trucker wasn't cited and his driving record negatively affected by my own failure to be observant. Had I been on a motorcycle that day, I would most likely not be writing this story.

So...all I'm really saying is that riding a motorcycle requires complete focus and observance of what is going on all around you. You must anticipate what MIGHT happen at any time. The motorcycle safety course teaches much of this and I hope that everybody here who hasn't taken the basic course and the advance course does so as soon as possible.

Sorry this was so long, but this is an important topic.

[WilCruise]

Good post Marcarl! :happy34:

I was just thinking about making a similar one while riding to work the other day. I agree with just about everything said so far. The one thing I do a bit differently is sometimes on a multi-lane highway when I've chosen the left lane to keep cager threats to only one side - I occasionally will go a bit faster than the traffic flow. This allows me to keep a lot of the threats behind me. It allows me to move past blind spots too. I also claim my lane on the right portion of the lane in that situation to stay in as many mirror as possible too.

[juggler]

I do most of those things as well. I commute in heavy rush hour traffic and I always do what it takes to make sure I OWN MY LANE. In multi-lane traffic I ride the left track in the right lane, the right track in the left lane. I've done this just to make sure some moron doesn't think he can share my lane. In the center lane I tend to center and drift a little towards right track then to left track. More lights always helps.

I've always ridden with this in mind.

No matter how RIGHT you are, you still lose.


:checkeredflag::biker::usa:

[Venturing Sole]

I do most of those things as well. I commute in heavy rush hour traffic and I always do what it takes to make sure I OWN MY LANE. In multi-lane traffic I ride the left track in the right lane, the right track in the left lane. I've done this just to make sure some moron doesn't think he can share my lane. In the center lane I tend to center and drift a little towards right track then to left track. More lights always helps.

I've always ridden with this in mind.

No matter how RIGHT you are, your still lose.


:checkeredflag::biker::usa:


:sign yeah that:

I also commute everyday, half of my trip is on dedicated High Occupancy Vehicle lanes (2 lanes) at 50-80 mph. While I practice much of what has been said in the posts above, what frosts me are the other riders who are sooo aggressive they nearly ride the white dotted lines, floating from lane to lane to get ahead of the traffic one vehicle at a time, often splitting the lane to get between two cagers who are side-by-side. What must the cagers think of us when they see this type of riding. I've been in a collision before...and I ride very conservatively because I shiver at the thought of it happening again. It's tough to try to own your space when the cagers see other riders violating this double standard.:soapbox: :mad:

My :2cents:

[halfwitt]

I'm getting caught up on some old posts and saw this interesting discussion. If I may add my thoughts...

In any given situation, I try to think of where I am most vulnerable. In commercial areas with lots of driveways, I tend to ride right or center in my lane. I want to make sure that the cager who is trying to get out of a parking lot or driveway sees me and doesn't think he can jump out real quick in front of the car behind me.

And to further support the obvious that Freebird stated, stay alert to your surroundings. The only time I have come close to a major accident on my bike was completely my fault. I was following a semi too close. This is my single biggest flaw driving four wheels or two. The truck locked up his brakes for some reason. I had to stop quick. I didn't think I would stop before I ran into the trailer and I wasn't too sure the car behind me would stop before he hit me. I went into the grass median and laid 'er down. The lesson: one one thousand...two one thousand...

Thanks for this website Freebird.

[Eugene]

Excellent post - thanks.

One thing - you stated:

"2) When approaching an intersection and you have a left turner coming toward you, stay in the left hand track."

And I agree totally - I do sometimes zig/zag a bit from the left track to the centre and back. I've been hit once by a left turner and came REAL close several times. I find by zig zagging a bit, the left turner sees me better and stays put!!

Thinks I'm crazy or something - which I often am!!

Thanks again for the great reminders.

Eugene

[Stoutman]

Good stuff here. My two cents is to keep track of what is around you. I often find cagers driving right beside me with the phone glued to their ear, or talking with their passengers, putting on makeup, etc. They'll also do the same while following 6 feet off my back tire. There is no way they can see me with their head somewhere else. I always make sure I'm staggered in traffic so nobody is right beside me. Similarly, I stay out of blind spots. That way I have some place to go if things get dicey. If they follow to close I'll slow down, or even show them the flat of my hand in a stop signal. You'd be amazed at how many people back off. The ones that don't back off find a way to go around.

My closest call lately was to pass someone on the right as they slowed to make a left turn. The oncoming traffic was also turning left, and they didn't see me behind the car I was passing. It was only my situational awareness that saved my bacon that day. That and the wonderful V4 motor that moved me out of the way when I grabbed a handful. If I had tried to stop I would have been road rash.

[SilvrT]

There is one more thing I'd like to comment on.

That has to do with the left hand track, 2 lane road / highway.

First of all, on a 2 lane highway, traffic coming towards you, no traffic in front of you. IMO it's better to be in the right hand track because that puts you into the view of the oncoming driver who is pulling out to pass someone sooner. If you're in the left hand track, that driver has to get out farther into your path before he will see you. Better for you to increase the "angle of view" than him.

Approaching a left hand turner. Again, if there is any traffic going in the opposite direction, and you have no one in front of you, if you're in the right hand track, that on-coming left hand turner will see you sooner. Perhaps just right of centre would be better that way they don't get the idea you're turning right. Eugene mentioned the "zig-zagging" and that's a good idea as well. One thing I've noticed about many left hand turners and that is they sit there, partially turned into on-coming traffic, with their wheels turned. IF, for example, you're in the left hand track as you appraoch them and somebody hits them from behind, they're into your path NOW! Whereas if you're over to the right, there's more space for their reaction to hit the brakes and/or more space for their vehicle to come to a stop meaning less need for defensive manoeuver by you. IMO, the majority of drivers, if they can see you, aren't going to make a left hand turn into the path of an on-coming vehicle anyway, even if they figgure that vehicle is going to turn right simply because we are all taught that you don't turn into the path of an on-coming vehicle. Especially if you think they're turning right because they just might change their mind and then what?

In both of the above scenarios, if you're in the left hand track, you are much more "hidden" by the oncoming traffic and in fact, can sometimes be "blended in" to it (as seen by that oncoming driver who is pulling out to pass or looking for a "hole" to turn left)

just my $0.05 opinion.

One thing for sure, it never does harm to open up such a discussion because if nothing else, it gets your mind thinking defensively and makes you more conscious of the need to be constantly aware of the other drivers around you.

[SilvrT]

My closest call lately was to pass someone on the right as they slowed to make a left turn. The oncoming traffic was also turning left, and they didn't see me behind the car I was passing. It was only my situational awareness that saved my bacon that day. That and the wonderful V4 motor that moved me out of the way when I grabbed a handful. If I had tried to stop I would have been road rash.

Danged lucky for you! Just curious, was this a 2 lane road/street or four lane?

[Eugene]

Good points SilvrT

I guess the situation determines the best approach. I also very much agree its great to discuss it here as it serves as a wonderful reminder.

Next time you see a bike coming in the opposite direction AND there is a car close behind him/her, and the rider is in the left track - have a look and see how "hidden" he/she really is - I noticed that today - the rider "blended" in with the car behind. As SilvrT pointed out, if the opposite oncoming traffic is heavy and someone sticks their nose out to pass, they will surely misjudge the distance to the bike.

Ride safe

Eugene

[SilvrT]

they will surely misjudge the distance to the bike.


(or not see them at all until it's too late)

There are a lot of "judgement calls" on our part and in some cases, there is no one rule that is necessarilly the best. What is the best is brainstorming, taking in this information, putting it into practise, and being constantly aware of all the good information on this topic that we share with each other.

[Dano]

I myself ride and drive defensively all the time. One thing I do, that I've not seen yet, is I ride with my high-beam on during the day. I've not had anybody blink theirs at me and I know that it gives me that extra bit that I might not have without it. With the prevalence of DRLs on all the cars, it might help distinguish you from the cages.

Just my 2 cents worth,
Ride safe and often,
Dan

[Gary N.]

All good info. I'm a firm believer in the modulating headlight as a safety item and think it should be factory installed on all bikes. I know it's saved my life more than once. The cagers see that flashing bright light and say whoa what the heck is that.

[SilvrT]

I myself ride and drive defensively all the time. One thing I do, that I've not seen yet, is I ride with my high-beam on during the day. I've not had anybody blink theirs at me and I know that it gives me that extra bit that I might not have without it. With the prevalence of DRLs on all the cars, it might help distinguish you from the cages.

Just my 2 cents worth,
Ride safe and often,
Dan

Good that you mentioned that... I never used to but while on a group ride back in the spring, one of the other riders in front of me suggested it (over the CB) as my headlight didn't appear very bright. I switched to high beam and he said "they can see ya coming now". I've been doing that ever since.

[cowpuc]

I think this is a GREAT thread.. Something I have always loved about biking is that no matter how long you have been doing it the learning curve continues..
Something I learned and always taught my kids when teaching them to drive/ride is to take LOTS of pictures.. By this I of course me mental pictures of the surrounding area -- the point is that you can trust NO ONE.. Did you see that shadow under the car that was approaching the intersection Son?? Ahhhhh,, no I didnt.. Then your mind wasnt on driving - remember Son, you can trust NO ONE but yourself, YOU have to drive for both you and them... Can you tell me whether that car that was sitting at the end of that driveway had a hubcap on the front wheel or not Daughter?? Whats that got to do with anything Dad? Cause you can trust NO ONE other then yourself when your driving a car,,, that front wheel will tell you where that car will squirt to if the drivers foot slips and will also tell you if the car is moving -- all at a glance!! I have gotten myself into the habit of slowing wayyyyy down for people who like to creep at corners or when coming out of their driveways.. As a matter of fact, I now make it my appointed duty to come to a complete stop and sit there and stare at them when this happens --- just to let them know that I dont trust them,, the ONLY person I trust behind the wheel is me... Pardon me wife,, but did you head check that merge?? Shut up husband - I aint one of the kids...
I like the swerving idea when coming to an intersection to maintain your lane ownership that someone mentioned - mainly because I TRUST NO ONE other than myself while I am driving.. I have lived in the country for years and have had to contend with Deer during twilight hours for a long time - one thing that deer have taught me is you cant trust them.. During these high engagement probabilty hours I gently swerve back and forth so my lights are scanning from one side to the other. If you have never done this you will be shocked to see how far down the road your lights will light up their X-ray eyes as well as other critters.. Once you have avoided and accident by doing this you will be shocked too at how natural it is.. All you have to do stay focused in your ever searching endeavor to see em before they attempt to do you in..
ANother thing to be aware of is the location of the Sun.. If your riding early mornings and late evenings with the sun on your back you MUST understand that Cagers cannot see you.. You have to make your decisions based on this FACT becuaes you can never trust them..
On divided highways I ALWAYS ride the open lane.. If one lane has more space between the cars thats where I will be.. I also avoid bottle necks - if I have to ride aggressively for a short ways to get into a hollow spot I do.. Or,,, if I am coming up to a bottle neck I will slow down and let the idiots hash it out and then blow by them to the next hollow spot..
The chatter about Semis brought up another one of my favorite sayings about trucks that I always told the kids,,, and that I live by.. NEVER play around near them,, they are the most dangerous pieces of equipment onthe road.. If your gonna pass, wait till you have an opening to do so that is complete and then do get it done - DONT get caught having to ride next to them for any distance.. NEVER cut them off in traffic and NEVER ride at night with your lights in their mirrors.. Dont follow in thier dust or rain mist cause you NEVER know what is gonna come off one - you cant trust them.. Go around them and leave them to their jobs..
On 3 lane highways or more I always use far left and avoid merging lanes.. Leave yourself an escape path..
Another thing I always do when turning is engage my blinkers and then hand signal with a flat hand showing to the traffic.. In heavy traffic when merging out I will motion from straight up to outward or vice versa in an attempt to be seen - I trust NO ONE but myself!!
I also use a small set of those little concave mirrors on my road bikes as well as my cars.. I use my mirrors and do headchecks when changing lanes or turning..
A longggggg time ago (1974) I was riding beside a friend on his new Honda 500 four.. He was sooooo proud of that scoot,, so proud in fact that he was so busy showing me how cool it was that he totally missed the discoloration of the pavement he was approaching.. I tried to point at it but he didnt get my message before he was on his face... What happened was truck from a local scrap yard had entered the road with a container on from a machine shop.. Inside the container were shavings from mills/drills/lathes and the like.. Of course,, the water coming fromthe container contained cutting coolant and it was REAL slippery... Tim didnt even have the chance to touch his brakes (it would have only sped him up anyway) before he was down!!! From that experience I learned to take pictures of the surface I am riding on too!!! Bluntely,, you cant trust the pavement either!!!
Speaking about judging surfaces,, does anyone else have the habit of watching the joint between pavement and shoulders on downhill roads?? I have found that you can sometimes predict gravel on the highway by the condition of the shoulders.. I absoulutly LOVE highspeed country road corners but blind corners at those highspeeds give me the jitters... I am always looking for signs of an UNTRUSTWORTHY road..
'Puc

[Zfrebird4]

intersection. I wave a thank y ou as I go through, and do the same flashing and thank you hand for left turners. It works all the time. I even nod to them in appreciation. That's just my way to keep the road rash tamped down and our image good and up.

I like the idea of running on high beam. I will try that. I also ride with the yellow, small police strobe LEDs that have adjustable flashes. I had it wired so I could change that setting to a slow flash in case of an amergency, and that take a second button switch to break and renew the ground. And I most always have it on a one-tow-three blip, pause, cycle. It really gets attention, even in the day. One is under the headlight and facing slightly up; the other two are on each side of the fariing, mid-way and away from the turn lights. Cost, $50 each, and about $120 wiring by my wrench, ... which most of you folks can do on your own.

I also run, of course with my running lights 24/7. I also wear a WHITE helmet, full face, DOT, soon with a Masonic emblem in front and back when I get it painted on. THAT will take a rainy day. I also wear a black or black and silver jacket, black gloves, and tan or very light brown pants. At first glance I WANT them to to think I am a cop. I will have no problems with this if I do NOT use hand signals to the boxes around me. Well, not exactly. Often, some of them will slow down, then I t urn the strobes off, and do a forward and friendly hand wave, they pick up, and life goes on.

Futher, thats to Squidley who sold me his lovely 86 VR (THANKS SQUIDLEY, ... AND LONNA) I have all kinds of lights on the back end. I do want to put one of my police yellow strobes on the back though.

I've enjoyed this older post. Thanks Don for keeping it on a while longer. And above all, I agree: We never ride THINKING the boxes can see us!

RIDE TO LIVE! And then ... sleep well at night: :draming:

JackZ:banana:

[Karl C.]

Basically if niceness were put into effect things could be different. Most everyone is in a hurry and gives me the feeling that they think they are the only important ones on the road. It is just alarming at what people do to cut line or make up a few seconds.. I wonder how they feel when they kill someone over 1 second..

just my two cents...

ps. they say riding a cycle is more tiring than driving a car, I feel it is more mental than driving a car due to the thngs we have to think about to keep safe.

[AKRefugee]

TWO LANE ROAD:

2) When approaching an intersection and you have a left turner coming toward you, stay in the left hand track. If you move over to the right hand track you are telling the cager that you are making a right turn, and guess what, he's going first, and right into your path cutting off all chance of escape. If you stay in the left track and he does turn in front of you, you have a chance of going behind him. However small that opening may be, it’s may be the only one you’ve got.


Gotta disagree with you on this on. By moving to the right track you are allowing yourself a few more feet of reaction time if they should start to move in front of you. Additionally people make the decision to go in front of traffic based on their perception of the ability to clear before that vehicle gets there. By moving to the right track you have increased the perception that they will NOT be able to clear before you get there and it will reduce the possibility of them going. Finally it will allow you the opportunity to go to the right which is what most people will expect you to do. If they do see you they will most likely hit the brakes. The additional road or parking lot surface they are turning in to/on to will provide you with additional surface to maneuver. If you are in the left track that means you will either A) hit them or B) cut behind them and quite possibly head on into the car that may be behind them and coming around.

[KarlS]

What a great thread. Agree with almost everything said. I ride with a number 1 rule "Ride to be seen" I try to place me and the bike in the most visible spot to be seen. 4 lane roads bother me the most, if in left lane with cages turning right, if I can't see cars at the intersection then they can't see me. Seems like that's when cagers like to pull out in front of the turning car. Trouble is they don't always stay in the right lane when they do it.

[Dave77459]

I recently saw an interview with Rush drummer Neil Peart, who is an avid motorcyclist. I think it was in the AMA magazine. One thing that stuck with me was his lane positioning.

If he is riding on a two-lane (one lane each direction) highway as an independent vehicle (not following or being followed), he will ride in the right track with approaching traffic. His idea is that it allows approaching cars in platoon to see him earlier. That let's cars know that there is an on-coming vehicle and that it is not safe to pass.

Since adopting this strategy myself, I have seen on-coming cars drift out and look, see me, and drift back.

On the other hand, deer can be a danger on our rural roads. I stay in the left track unless there is oncoming traffic, because I want to give myself as much time and distance away from potential threats grazing along the road.

I carefully choose my tracks to increase my visibility and my reaction time. Good thread.

Dave

[Flyinfool]

I agree with Dave
There is no one correct lane position to cover every scenario.
I tend to use the entire lane depending on traffic, (whether in my direction or oncoming), road condition, ambient light condition, type of road (city or rural or country), weather condition.

You could write a book on all of the variables.

But by using ALL of my lane and going back and forth as conditions change moment by moment, and yard by yard, the cagers must think I am nuts or impaired and tend to keep well clear of me. I have found that the more you weave in your lane the farther back they stay. Which is good, it means that they are watching my every move closely.

I tend to give wider berth to dangers that I can see exist vs the dangers that MIGHT be there.
For instance, if on a 2 lane I prefer to be in the left track to give the best chance of seeing the deer that might be there or the car pulling out of a blind drive type of thing, but as soon as there is an oncoming car, that presents a real and current danger as opposed to the possible danger of a deer, so I will move to the right track till it is safe to get back to the left track.

Unless some other condition forces me, I will almost never ride in the left track with oncoming traffic, they are just to close and I see cars drift over the line way to often. Also when going around a left curve I see way to many bikes in the left track lean out over the center line even though their tires are still in the left track. It puts their face in a perfect position to find the side mirror on my truck.

[seuadr]

I recently saw an interview with Rush drummer Neil Peart, who is an avid motorcyclist. I think it was in the AMA magazine. One thing that stuck with me was his lane positioning.

If he is riding on a two-lane (one lane each direction) highway as an independent vehicle (not following or being followed), he will ride in the right track with approaching traffic. His idea is that it allows approaching cars in platoon to see him earlier. That let's cars know that there is an on-coming vehicle and that it is not safe to pass.

Since adopting this strategy myself, I have seen on-coming cars drift out and look, see me, and drift back.

On the other hand, deer can be a danger on our rural roads. I stay in the left track unless there is oncoming traffic, because I want to give myself as much time and distance away from potential threats grazing along the road.

I carefully choose my tracks to increase my visibility and my reaction time. Good thread.

Dave

interesting. i was wondering if i was the only one that did this, and apperantly not! i mostly ride alone.. i didn't even really notice that i did this until someone i was riding with for the first time pointed it out. he wanted us to run in a side by side formation, but never got to get right next to me because i kept moving and apperantly it peeved him off. didn't sit well with him when i explained that in most situations where you wanna move quick it's kinda moronic to be right next to another bike because you have to choose between hitting whatever you want to avoid, and the bike next to you :Avatars_Gee_George:

[davecb]

Just make sure, that when some fool pulls out in front of you, cuts you off, etc,,

Giveem a SALUTE.......

[Yeah, Just Dale]

Another thing to keep in mind is that cage drivers sometimes just misjudge how far away a bike is. If you live and ride in "the north" (call it above the Mason-Dixon line) motorcycles are most prevalent in the summer. Spring and fall are very weather dependent. Cage drivers are used to seeing other cars and trucks all year round. When they look down the road they see an image of vehicle and based on the size of that image they make a quick mental (though subconcious) calculation of how far, and how fast that vehicle is. That mental conditioning doesn't always account for the smaller image that is seen of a motorcycle at the same distance. So they look down the road, see a bike coming, assume that it's farther away that it and think they have the room and the time to make the left hand turn. How many of these kinds of accidents do you read about where the driver says "the bike came out of nowwhere" or "bike must have been speeding cause all of a sudden he was right there"? Bike may or may not have been speeding but it's just as likely that the driver was wrong in the initial estimation of how far away the bike was to begin with. Also remember reading somewhere that a pencil held at arms length is enough to obscure the image of a motorcycle at 500 feet or something like that. Anyway, gotta ride like they're ALL out to kill ya!

[Renne]

Great thread, especially for the newer riders as well a refresher for us "seasoned" survivors !
I've found over the years the one main defense for me has been just that, "defense". I tell myself every time I set out that I must remember that "everyone" that shares the road with me is out to kill me...I ride for pleasure mostly and I try to balance that pleasure with the knowledge that I'm in enemy territory and still enjoy the ride. I "know" in every instance the cage ahead about to pull out from a side road/driveway is just waiting for me. The "slightest" movement of his/her front tire is my indicator that he/she is about to "pounce" on me! Same with wildlife (see below).

I "know" that I can NEVER run a stop or assume a yield because "someone" is always right on time to broadside me. I "know" the tailgater is a young female on her cell who would never never suspect a deer/raccoon/elephant is just waiting patiently in the tall grass (really tall for the elephant) to "jump" out in front of me (not the elephant) . Somewhere forgotten (not the elephant) is the one car length per 10 mph follow rule!

I "know" the left turn dude is not gonna wait, he's gonna turn, it's in his DNA, most right handed people will turn left in front of you, I don't know why that is but they do it. Left handed people do it too but you don't see that as often because there's not as many.

Now for the "stoplight/ intersection" section. "NEVER NEVER NEVER" assume "GREEN" means "GO" or "RED" means "STOP"! "YELLOW means "In God we trust"! The dude to the right may have the right of way but try telling that to a senior lost, a junior late! Better not to argue, the bike weights less,,,by a lot!......

Oh ya, we won't even go into the DWI/DUI thing cause we all know "EVERYONE" is, if not, why do they do what they do?

Combine all the above "traps" set by fate and/or stupidity and you get my drift.

If at all possible, take some advise from a "seasoned survivor", take the back roads if at all possible. Slow down, leave early. Cruise "in the wind", embrace the peace and balance of beautiful scenery, the aroma of fresh tilled fields and moist lake shores. The flashing shadows cast by towering trees and the rhythm of the white strips combined with V4 rumble reduces blood pressure, you'll live longer as you relax in the absence of "cages" but alert always for the occasional "elephant"...........................

Renne.........Surviving the "elephant" for 50 riding years.

[timgray]

....what frosts me are the other riders who are sooo aggressive they nearly ride the white dotted lines, floating from lane to lane to get ahead of the traffic one vehicle at a time, often splitting the lane to get between two cagers who are side-by-side. What must the cagers think of us when they see this type of riding.....

I really agree with that.

Lane splitting at 70mph is only done by complete and total idiots. I point out to people on a regular basis that the people that do that stuff are not Bikers, just a really dumb moped rider that accidentally bought a motorcycle.

[Flyinfool]

...what frosts me are the other riders who are sooo aggressive they nearly ride the white dotted lines, floating from lane to lane to get ahead of the traffic one vehicle at a time, often splitting the lane to get between two cagers who are side-by-side. What must the cagers think of us when they see this type of riding....

My :2cents:

Is that still "legal" even if unwise in some places like CA.?

[midnightventure]

I move all over my lane. I try to position myself where that car that is about to pull out can see me even though I am behind another vehicle. If I am going down the road and somebody pulls up to an intersection I will weave back and forth in my lane. I believe this is very effective at getting them to notice me.

[SilvrT]

I recently saw an interview with Rush drummer Neil Peart, who is an avid motorcyclist. I think it was in the AMA magazine. One thing that stuck with me was his lane positioning.

If he is riding on a two-lane (one lane each direction) highway as an independent vehicle (not following or being followed), he will ride in the right track with approaching traffic. His idea is that it allows approaching cars in platoon to see him earlier. That let's cars know that there is an on-coming vehicle and that it is not safe to pass.

Since adopting this strategy myself, I have seen on-coming cars drift out and look, see me, and drift back.

On the other hand, deer can be a danger on our rural roads. I stay in the left track unless there is oncoming traffic, because I want to give myself as much time and distance away from potential threats grazing along the road.

I carefully choose my tracks to increase my visibility and my reaction time. Good thread.

Dave

Exactly what I pointed out earlier in the thread. Consider this scenario....

You're somewhere back in a string of traffic, looking for a passing opportunity. There's a car coming towards you but still a ways down the road... it has it's lights on (as most do) but one of them is not working. Will you see that car sooner (when you poke out to see if any traffic is approaching) if it's Right headlight is NOT working or when it's Left headlight is NOT working??

The answer of course is when it's RIGHT headlight IS working and thus the reason to ride in the right lane if you're the oncoming vehicle.

(now don't go getting yourself all twisted around between which is right and which is left on the oncoming vehicle's headlights LOL)

[saddlebum]

I do most of those things as well. I commute in heavy rush hour traffic and I always do what it takes to make sure I OWN MY LANE. In multi-lane traffic I ride the left track in the right lane, the right track in the left lane. I've done this just to make sure some moron doesn't think he can share my lane. In the center lane I tend to center and drift a little towards right track then to left track. More lights always helps.

I've always ridden with this in mind.

No matter how RIGHT you are, you still lose.


:checkeredflag::biker::usa:
I mostly do the same on one occasion many years ago while riding with a friend I stayed over to the left track of the left lane so my riding partner could take the right track. Next thing I knew a cager passed the vehicle in the right lane by driving between me and the other vehicle, almost putting me in the gaurd rail. A lesson well learned and never forgotten.

[Taking it EZ]

Lots of great info on lane position, lights, etc. I'm one of those It's my lane and i"m gonna use the whole thing kind of guys. One thing I didn't read about though is sound. I'm installing a dual air horn on my RSV like I had on my classic CB750C Honda. When one of those brain damaged cagers decides to do something stupid, a good blast of a semi horn in their ear usually tends to get their attention

[zooer]

Great information here on this thread. If I had to pick one thing that I was allowed to teach a new rider it would be, always stay visible to those coming toward you and to anyone you are behind. Keep yourself in the drivers mirror for as long as you can when passing, run your high-beam during the day, and stay way in the left track of your lane when approaching any intersection so the guy who may want to turn left can see you, and don't don't don't ever tailgate since that makes you a hidden object! If you are following someone drop back some at all intersections. Again, stay visible.:)

[captainjoe]

I never let anyone ride in the same lane as me...

A staggered formation is ok but not doubled up in the same lane..

[Marcarl]

Exactly what I pointed out earlier in the thread. Consider this scenario....

You're somewhere back in a string of traffic, looking for a passing opportunity. There's a car coming towards you but still a ways down the road... it has it's lights on (as most do) but one of them is not working. Will you see that car sooner (when you poke out to see if any traffic is approaching) if it's Right headlight is NOT working or when it's Left headlight is NOT working??

The answer of course is when it's RIGHT headlight IS working and thus the reason to ride in the right lane if you're the oncoming vehicle.

(now don't go getting yourself all twisted around between which is right and which is left on the oncoming vehicle's headlights LOL)
In addition to this thought, is that if you are a MC and only have a small profile, you tend to blend with the scenery on the side of the road, and if then you are running your low beam, you really are not making much of an impression, maybe better to be running on the right side of the the left track.
The other thing that happens,,, and that's the type of thinking that got me started on this thread,,,, is what does the cager coming towards you think if you are riding the right hand track. There is a possibility that he\she would consider that you would be making a right hand turn, and so consider you of no consequence. Not that it would necessarily be the case, but mostly a cager has to deal with cagers and therefore the first thing considered is cager things, so if a cager is coming toward you and is moved over to the right hand side of the of his lane,,,,,,,then he's making a right turn,,, right???? get the picture??????

[SilvrT]

heh... considering all the variations as to where, in a lane, one should be ... I'm thinking maybe we just shouldn't be on that danged road at all!! :sign20:

(anyone wanna trade yer cage for my scoot?) <--- :sign just kidding:

[saddlebum]

One thing I didn't read about though is sound.SOund you want sound............ how about the sound of ball bearings pinging off of the grill of some caged rice racer riding your A## or purposely cutting you off ...............Now that is a sweet sound.:witch_brew:

[FuzzyRSTD]

What do we make cagers think when we share the road, and related thoughts.

Often and most time we blame the cager for not seeing us. This maybe true, but no matter who's to blame for the mishaps or near mishaps, riders still end up with the short end of the stick, and are the ones who have to deal with the worst aftermath. How to minimize these situations is an ongoing discussion and I would like to add to it from a different point of view.

First, lets accept the fact that an accident is the fault of those involved, in our case the rider and the cager. We all know that the cager will not 'see us', so it's up to us to avoid being hit. The cager is no help in this department. With that in mind here's my thoughts:

TWO LANE ROAD:

1) Always ride the left hand track, in the right hand track we get lost in the scenery and we tell others that we are not really a contender in the traffic.

2) When approaching an intersection and you have a left turner coming toward you, stay in the left hand track. If you move over to the right hand track you are telling the cager that you are making a right turn, and guess what, he's going first, and right into your path cutting off all chance of escape. If you stay in the left track and he does turn in front of you, you have a chance of going behind him. However small that opening may be, it’s may be the only one you’ve got.

3) When traveling down the road stay with the traffic speed. You are telling the cager that you are part of his environment and not just something to get out of the way. Keep your left track and block your lane. If you move to the right track you are telling them: I’m trying to give you room to pass me, try it if you think it’s ok and take me out in the process. It also gives you a better vision to the front and traffic coming towards you are also aware of your presence and so have to contend with you.

4) Always and always block your lane. You paid for it as much as anyone else, you have a right to it and it’s yours to use to your full advantage.

5) When making a right hand turn never use the right hand track, in doing so you are telling the cager that it’s ok for him to try and squeeze by you, but often times there’s not quite enough room and over you go.

6) When making a left turn use the center right track and so block your lane. Sure the cager has to wait to go past you, but then he does for anyone else as well so why not for you. If he knows he’s going to take you out he will contend with you, but if he can put you on the side in his mind, you’re the one who deals with the problems. Further more if the cager thinks that he can scoot past you and stay on the pavement he will, force him to leave the pavement and he will give you a wider berth.

7) Never give a cager the idea that you may even want to share your lane with him, it’s yours, you paid for it, at present you own it and are using it and he’s to keep away from you.

8) When stopped at a light or stop sign, tell others by your action that you own the lane, park crosswise in the middle if that’s what it takes, just don’t let anyone even think that there may be a chance that they could squeeze by.

FOUR LANE, Two lanes in either direction.

I find that sometimes it feels safer in the right and other times safer in the left. I’m not really stuck on the one vs. the other.

1) When in the right lane be visible and use the left track, when in the left lane be just as visible and use the right track. Again, let others know that you intend to be a contender in traffic and they will have to deal with you. This may seem to be an aggressive way of thinking and doesn’t fly with the thought that we are super vulnerable. We are super vulnerable and should never forget that fact, but that doesn’t mean that we need to tell the cager that. Let him know that we are part of the world he has to deal with and it will be much harder for him to put us aside mentally.

2) When passing continue to use the proper tracks. You may feel safer in the other track, but you won’t be taking over your rightful lane, you will be unnoticed, and therefore uncared for.

3) When doing an exit, continue to claim your right to your lane as long as possible, nobody will run you down, but if you fade to the right to try and get out the way then others will take your lane away from you before they should.

These are just some thoughts, hopefully helpful, but I’m not an expert by any stretch of the imagination. Lets use this to start a discussion and to educated each other more fully. Got some helpful insight? Some good pointers? Type away and help the rest of us as well.

I agree Marcarl 100% with all you said. Especially the left and right tracks when on a two/three lane same direction. I have preached this to all who have road with me when I see them on the wrong side. Your just more visible that way. I have also seen some riding two up on a two lane divided and riding on the right track. So wrong, the traffic behind that first vehicle does not even know you are there. I think maybe they are so afraid of the oncoming traffic, that they go to the right track.I wished that everyone would follow your advise on all this. THANK YOU.....
Fuzzy

[Trader]

On the way down to MD I did a dumb thing!
I pulled out of the Seneca gas station near Buffalo with a group of bikes and immediately was at a stop sign...waiting to turn left.

I stopped, checked traffic. It was all clear on the left, and on my right I saw a car slowing down quite a bit so I ASSUMED he also had a stop sign.

I proceeded to make my left hand turn RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM!!!!
Thankfully he was going slow enough that he avoided me quite easily but it really shook me up realizing what I had done.

Also related to the focus that Don spoke of. I was more concerned in keeping up with the other riders and didn't FOCUS on what was going on around me.

[Sailor]

A couple things from riding here. On two lane roads a lot of cars cut corners. They will kick gravel up onto the pavement. In that case it is best to be on the inside of the corner as the car tires clear two paths, one on the inside and one on the outside. If you are on the outside and a car cuts the corner coming towards you, you meet head on. If it has just rained do not ride in the middle of the lane as that is where cars leak oil and water brings it to the surface. When I see a car that I think may pull out or turn left or try to pass in front of me I give my handlebars a little wiggle which draws their attention to me. I always drive in daylight with my headlight on high.

[yamtom]

After reading all this, I am not surprised at the depth of understanding of survival techniques mentioned, but so few seem to be talking about modulated headlites. I have one, and am amazed at how they make you stand out. Ive also noted that the neon green/yellow safety vest wraps, stand out so well, there is just no missing them. I personally have been switching sides of lanes for many years, similar to what Jeff is suggesting. In Mich, supposedly we have legal modulated headlites even though, I cant find authority for it in the actual law for motorcycles. I am generally a recreation only rider, so the heavy traffic is avoided for the most part. How many states actually allow modulated headlites anyways?

[Gary N.]

How many states actually allow modulated headlites anyways?

Allowed in all 50 states and all Canadian provinces.

more info http://users.snip.net/~WCLAMB/MODULATOR.HTM

Thank you for resurrecting this important thread.

[awsmsrv]

....How many states actually allow modulated headlites anyways?
All of 'em.

[Sailor]

One safety item no one has mentioned, I think, is to use a white helmet. All the motorcycle cops here have white helmets and the car drivers are used to watching for them. I have noticed it myself, I can spot that white helmet even though the bike is hidden. I used to have "fishscale" on my helmet. It is highly reflective multi colored tape. I can't find it any more.

[Pegasus1300]

I have found white helmets to also be cooler as the white relectes the heat better. NO I didn't mean cooler as in Kooler:)

[SilvrT]

I have found white helmets to also be cooler as the white relectes the heat better. NO I didn't mean cooler as in Kooler:)

I think white is KEWLer too :banana:

[jfoster]

I agree Marcarl 100% with all you said. Especially the left and right tracks when on a two/three lane same direction. I have preached this to all who have road with me when I see them on the wrong side. Your just more visible that way. I have also seen some riding two up on a two lane divided and riding on the right track. So wrong, the traffic behind that first vehicle does not even know you are there. I think maybe they are so afraid of the oncoming traffic, that they go to the right track.I wished that everyone would follow your advise on all this. THANK YOU.....
Fuzzy

I'm gonna argue the differ....I just can't see how riding in the left track on a two lane road is safe whether your alone or the front rider. 1: If someone is overly aggressive and wants to pass another vehicle, they're are not gonna see you until they're almost on top of you versus being in the right track where your more visible from a greater distance. 2: Semi's are always blowing tires out, loads shift, etc. Do you really think it's safe to pass one at three to four feet apart or eight to ten. Again, if someone is directly behind it and wants to step out to pass, its even harder for them to see you if your in the left tract. 3: in an emergency
situation, someone crosses the center line, it's gonna take alot more distance to swerve right to miss them in the left trac vs the right. I personally want that area of cushion to avoid being hit head-on.

[saddlebum]

I'm gonna argue the differ....I just can't see how riding in the left track on a two lane road is safe whether your alone or the front rider. 1: If someone is overly aggressive and wants to pass another vehicle, they're are not gonna see you until they're almost on top of you versus being in the right track where your more visible from a greater distance. 2: Semi's are always blowing tires out, loads shift, etc. Do you really think it's safe to pass one at three to four feet apart or eight to ten. Again, if someone is directly behind it and wants to step out to pass, its even harder for them to see you if your in the left tract. 3: in an emergency
situation, someone crosses the center line, it's gonna take alot more distance to swerve right to miss them in the left trac vs the right. I personally want that area of cushion to avoid being hit head-on.
I am not sure what your definition of left track is. However mine is definitly not riding the left edge of the lane but rather left of the center line of said lane, in a position were the vehicale ahead can see you in his rear view. In the case of were a cager in on coming traffic wishes to use your lane to pass vehicles ahead of him, if you are in the right track following a car, you will be hidden from view from that cager wishing to make a passing move. He will only see a gap behind the car in front of you and will assume once the car in front of you has gone by, he will be free and clear to borrow your lane. If while riding the left track there is no car in front of you, you simply stay alert and should you notice an opposing cager is about to pull into your lane for the purpose of passing, you simply drift to the center of your lane to get his attention, and unless the guy is a real jerk he will notice you and pull back. I also have no problem riding the center of my lane if there are no cars in front of me, but if there are I stay in the left track. But most of all I ride the tracks as Marcarl described adjusting my position as needed, playing the angles to were I am at all times as visible as possible to any and all cagers and in a way to show I own my little piece of the road. Now given that no one technique is 100% fool proof, I also try to remain aware of possible escape routes should one be suddnly needed.

[MikeM]

What do we make cagers think when we share the road, and related thoughts.

First, lets accept the fact that an accident is the fault of those involved, in our case the rider and the cager.
My blood pressure raises every time I hear someone use the word ACCIDENT to describe a wreck.
There are VERY FEW that are really accidents(something mechanical breaks, force of nature etc.).
We all know the consequences of not paying 100% attention while driving. That said, WE CHOOSE to fiddle with the phone or radio,talk to passengers, look off at something etc. etc.
If something happens because of a driver not paying 100% attention to their driving....
IT WAS A CHOICE! They CHOSE to not pay attention so it was ON PURPOSE!
NOT A ACCIDENT!
I'll step down from my soap box now.

[Marcarl]

My blood pressure raises every time I hear someone use the word ACCIDENT to describe a wreck.
There are VERY FEW that are really accidents(something mechanical breaks, force of nature etc.).
We all know the consequences of not paying 100% attention while driving. That said, WE CHOOSE to fiddle with the phone or radio,talk to passengers, look off at something etc. etc.
If something happens because of a driver not paying 100% attention to their driving....
IT WAS A CHOICE! They CHOSE to not pay attention so it was ON PURPOSE!
NOT A ACCIDENT!
I'll step down from my soap box now.
I can agree to you,,,,, the word accident I used as a generic term, guess I could have used collision, but that would limit the description.