Trailers Push You [Archive] - VentureRider.Org

Jammin'John

10-26-2006, 09:07 PM

I just hit a deer while pulling a CycleMate 2000LTD.
I could not scrub off enough speed before impact & the trailer kept pushing me and the bike off the road.
I felt very helpless & I got hurt bad & totalled the bike !
Trailers make your bikes stopping distance increase a lot and increase your chances of getting hurt or killed !

JJ

Tour Deluxe

10-26-2006, 09:25 PM

JJ, sorry to hear about your accident, but you are correct about the trailer causing increased stopping distance. I towed a trailer from PA to FL this year. We all need to exercise extra attention when pulling a trailer. We have a Bushtec Turbo II, it handles well. Hope you recover asap.

Will:080402gudl_prv:

chabicheka

10-26-2006, 09:32 PM

BradT

10-26-2006, 10:08 PM

Sorry to hear, hope your not seriously hurt.

Take care and I hope your insurance comes through.

Keep us posted on your condition.

Brad

Wolfie

10-26-2006, 10:27 PM

Mean Dog

10-26-2006, 10:31 PM

John, I am sorry to hear about your accident. I hope you recover soon and weren't hurt too badly,and remember the bike can be replaced. I know that is not much consolation but, as bad as it seems, it will get better.

Mark

juggler

10-26-2006, 10:34 PM

Sorry to hear that. Glad your still with us. A simular thing happened to Black Owl last year. I have read about electric powered hydrali brakes that apply a limited braking force to the trailer to help conteract the extra weight. You really have to be careful with trailer brakes because they could cause an accident if they apply too much brake force.

BOO

10-26-2006, 10:56 PM

And this would be the reason I wouldn't be pulling a trailer. There are a lot of times while riding the bike you need to stop quickly or at least slow down pretty fast due to someone pulling out in front of you etc. You definitely don't need 500 lbs plus pushing you down the road.

This is not to say anything about balanced loads, tongue weight etc.

Glad you are still around to tell the story but I don't think you were ever see me pulling a trailer, but you never know if someone comes up with a good braking system it just might happen.

Jerry

dray

10-26-2006, 11:15 PM

JJ sorry to hear but glad your ok.
every thing else is replacable good luck:080402gudl_prv:

hipshot

10-26-2006, 11:18 PM

Sorry to hear about your accedent.:( Just wondering, You can set up trailer brakes for a pickup or car that makes the trailer help you stop. Can that be done on a motorcycle? Sorry, Redneck ain't here to answere my stupid question. Just didn't know if the same thing can be applied.:confused24:
wolfie, i haven't checked, but i see no reason, that 12 volt brakes couldnt be incorporated into use ,with a luggage trailer.
they are only electromagnetic brakes that "energise" when 12 volts are applied.

you're welcome "redneck"!
lol
just jt

hipshot

10-26-2006, 11:20 PM

jj, how serious are your injuries?
it seems ,that this time of year, deer loose their minds, sight , and hearing!!!!!!!!
we'll pray for a speedy and comfortable recovery,for you! the bike can be replaced!
just jt

fixit3546

10-26-2006, 11:30 PM

Yep, they'll do that.

Hope you are OK. The bike is replaceable. glad to hear we don't have to replace you.

WHOOMP

10-26-2006, 11:30 PM

:sign07: sorry to hear the bad news.. im glad that your still with us, and that you heall quikly.. we will be prayin for your quik recovery.. keep us posted...:smile11:

BuddyRich

10-26-2006, 11:33 PM

Glad your still with us.
This is true of any vehicle. The more weight the longer its going to take to stop. You try to remember it but during an emergency you do your best and the rest is Newtons law .

Midrsv

10-26-2006, 11:48 PM

JJ, Sorry to hear about your crash. I hope you recover soon and get back on a new bike.

Trailers do add to your stopping distance and that is why I bought a Unigo trailer. It is smaller than the others so my wife can't take the kitchen sink. If I had a trailer that would carry 400 lbs it would be loaded and pushing me. The Unigo at about 150 lbs loaded doesn't push too bad.

DT

86er

10-27-2006, 12:41 AM

Man John, I'm sorry to hear you were hurt. I hope you heal quickly (and the doc keeps you on some good "don't care" pills!!). I saw your post on too many deer in your area. Was that before or after your encounter? Either way it sucks; and it's a potent reminder that we really have to stay alert.

I know that all of us here will be praying for your speedy, and pain free recovery.

:thumbsup2:

Circuit Rider

10-27-2006, 10:05 AM

Jammin'John

10-27-2006, 10:23 AM

I was commin' home from work (playin' music),pullin' all my gear when the deer came out !
I have a broken nose,cheekbone,tailbone,4 ribbs,twisted ankles & wrists,no skin on the back of my right hand (right through the glove).
They say I will heal, and I may, but I'm scared.
This is the seventh deer I have hit and the worst deer crash.
I was hit by a SUV from behind last year.
The DEC doesn't seem to care about motorcyclists.
Most of my crashes have been at night.
And yes.......... I BOUGHT A NEW BIKE !

JJ

Tour Deluxe

10-27-2006, 10:57 AM

JJ, glad to hear you will recover. As we all know (but still don't listen) dusk,dawn & night are the most dangerous times. I have hit (2) here in PA, but it was with trucks. Deer go goofy this tme of year w/ rut & hunting season plus all the development going on at the same time. All we can do is ride as carefully as we can. Remember early this year Larry Grodski, safety writer for rider magazine was killed when he hit a deer at night in Texas. It can happen to anyone, just take care.:sick:

StevieMac

10-27-2006, 11:15 AM

Glad you're ok. For sure adding the weight of a trailer will increase your stopping distance; it's pretty simple physics.
Some camper trailers like the Bunkhouse and Aspen are available with optional electric brakes.

Kurt

10-27-2006, 12:02 PM

Everything that I have read does not recommend brakes on trailers behind motorcycles. The reason is that it could actually cause loss of controll due to changes in loading of the trailer hitch. In my experience with electric brakes I have noticed that the brakes never seem to apply equally. It would be better to lighten the load. Using the rule of thumb applied to commercial vehicles would be a good practice. The trailer needs brakes if it exceeds 40 percent of the weight of the tow vehicle. An 800 pound bike would pull a trailer weighing no more than 320 pounds. That would even be a hard push in emergency situations. Increase following distance, slow down. The only other thing maybe you could do is maximize brake performance on the bike. Good ridin and be safe out there.

86er

10-27-2006, 12:42 PM

If you're pulling 500 pounds you had better have trailer brakes.

I think most mc utility trailers are only 150 lbs or so empty. (My homemade wooden trailer is only 160#) So I think you'd be hard pressed to get one up to 500 pounds. Maybe with a load of firewood or something. I pulled mine full of camping gear and 2 coolers (1 inside, 1 on the tounge) for 5671 miles this summer. The only thing I had to do was increase the tounge weight for stability. Since I couldn't really do any better with repacking the trailer, I pulled a 20 lb rock out of a creek in Colorado and tied it on the tounge! That settled it down. Other than that, you just have to ride like you are invisible and have no brakes!

And no, I wasn't at that Restaraunt in NM for the margaritas (it was too early). But I did have some excelent Huevos Rancheros with green chile sauce!

And JJ, I'm glad to hear you got a new bike. You gotta get back on that horse! What did you get? I hope you were smart and bought a 1st Gen! :stirthepot:

newman

10-27-2006, 08:36 PM

Hey Jammin, Sorry to hear about your accident. Scares the stuffing out of you. I know.....we hit a bear and totalled our
06 RSTD......so I understand where your coming from. We weren't pulling a trailer but both me and the wife were on the bike. Anyways.....get better soon, and get back on the bike...... good luck!

rewindgy

11-08-2006, 06:32 PM

I'm not sure what the issue is with Electric Trailer Brakes as long as they are not the Surge type! I had Dexter 12 VDC brakes on my Combi-camp way back and they worked the cat's a--! The controller was in the saddle bag and they worked off a switch on the right controls under the throttle or off the brake lights. The emergency stop was disabled and they had a small time delay so they would not come on hard when applied. With it set up this way they would not let the trailer push you when stopping. I had used them on many winding roads ( Grand Tetons - Logan's Pass - Snake River Gourge) and I could ride as if I didn't have a trailer! I have done emgergency stops both in a straight line and in corners at Speed ( 70 - 80 MPH) deer related and one big Moose with no problems. In the rain it was better to use the Trailer brakes first then modulate the bike brakes.
Also, if the trailer brakes would lock up the bike would act as if you had the biggest boat anchor and drag the bike down to a halt.

BEER30

11-08-2006, 10:51 PM

rewindgy , you mentioned surge brakes . Are they a No No , or what ? I have surge brakes on my double axle boat trailer . Boat and trailer are a hair over 3,500 lbs and being pulled with my '04 F-150 4x4 . I feel very little push when braking soft or hard . How do scooter react to surge brakes compared to electric ?

JJ , I wish you well to a healthy , speedy recovery !

Gene

rewindgy

11-09-2006, 09:40 AM

Surge brakes work on the principle of the actuator is on the trailer tongue. When the trailer starts to push against the tow vehicle the brakes are activated. This is not a big deal on a car or truck! However, on a motorcycle you only have two wheels and if you ever rode over washboard roads you would get the same sensation, wheels hopping, excessive movement side to side plus the push pull same as if you pop the clutch and don't give it any gas. This is not good!!!

Jammin'John

11-09-2006, 10:06 AM

Thanks for the kind words everyone !

"I think most mc utility trailers are only 150 lbs or so empty. (My homemade wooden trailer is only 160#) So I think you'd be hard pressed to get one up to 500 pounds. Maybe with a load of firewood or something. "

I probably had about 200#'s in my CycleMate 2000 LTD.
It holds 22 CF and was full.

"And JJ, I'm glad to hear you got a new bike. You gotta get back on that horse! What did you get?"

I bought a Stratoliner Midnight !

JJ

Moose

11-11-2006, 04:09 PM

JJ,
I'm real glad to hear you're gonna be okay. I want to put in my two cents on the trailer subject. I bought an Aspen last year and I had the bracks factory installed. Then I bought a brake assist and did the wiring myself (I'm not much of a mechanic). When adjusting the brakes, I erred on the side of caution: i.e. I didn't over tighten the brake pads or set the brake assist too much. I figured I didn't want too much or too little braking power, but if I had to choose, I'd opt for too little. On my way back from Canada, I noticed my rear breaks were scraping. I didn't want to grind a path in the steel, so I just slowed down a bit before applying the breaks then I used only the front brakes. The trailer brakes applied the rest of the stopping power. I am a proponent of trailer brakes and I wouldn't haul one without them.
Chuck

Venturous

11-11-2006, 10:01 PM

As I noted on another thread, I bought a little camper this summer and have pulled it some with my 83 Venture. The camper without any extra gear weighs about 370 pounds. By the time I add the full size air mattress and other camping gear, I am probably over 400 pounds. I did do some upgrading on the bike brakes by going through the calipers, replacing some worn rotors and went to EBC HH superbike brake pads. This helped a lot with or without the trailer.
There is no doubt that while pulling the camper that I am at a heightened state of anxiety. I ride with my thumb on the airhorn button and try to give myself a lot of extra distance. I try to really concentrate on the road and the road conditions. But, I am aware that a little bobble that would be just an irritation without the camper, could turn into a serious problem with the camper.
But, I also have to add that taking off with the bike and camper for a few days in the mountains is so much fun. I have reached the point that at my age and even camping on a good air mattress, camping in a tent is not what I want to do. Actually, before I got the camper, I usually just camped at Holiday Inn.
randya

86er

11-12-2006, 02:09 AM

Thanks for the kind words everyone !

I bought a Stratoliner Midnight !

JJ

Sweeeeeeeeet, and glad to hear it!

Bob Myers

07-15-2008, 10:11 AM

Sorry to hear about your accedent.:( Just wondering, You can set up trailer brakes for a pickup or car that makes the trailer help you stop. Can that be done on a motorcycle? Sorry, Redneck ain't here to answere my stupid question. Just didn't know if the same thing can be applied.:confused24:

I have done a bit of research on an electric disc brake. I'm building a single wheel trailer to pull behind my Vulcan 800. All that I have found have such an amp draw that the standard wiring on a stock bike would need some upgrades. Using it continuously like in a car would compromise the battery pretty quickly to. If it were set for just a slight drag instead of actually locking a wheel it may work.

pick

07-15-2008, 10:38 AM

Sory to hear about the crash. Hope you get healed up fast! Might have to do some rethinking on buying that trailer? :think:

Condor

07-15-2008, 11:55 AM

The original post was made in '06... Maybe posting about trailer brakes would work better in the trailer tech forum???

Bob Myers

07-15-2008, 01:18 PM

trailer talk, trailer tech, I did not post any thing I thought of tech value, just random observations. I will look deeper into it and if I am able to conclude any thing worthy of a tech article I will post it there, thanks.

Gary N.

07-15-2008, 03:53 PM

If you have ever experienced the thrill of being pushed by a trailer without brakes in any kind of vehicle, believe me, you will never tow another trailer without brakes.
The brakes on these bikes are marginal at best. Now add another 100 + lbs. behind and see what happens especially if you are already at full load capacity on the bike, ie. bags full and two up. I don't care how careful you are you can't allow for unexpected circumstances. I would never attempt to pull anything behind any bike without brakes. My two cents and my opinion.
As for adding brakes. It shouldn't be a big deal. Most manufactures of trailer axles have either electric or serge brake kits available. I think a serge brake set up behind the bike would be the ticket. No extra load on the charging system. The trick, as always, is to get the trailer brakes adjusted just right. I've had no experience towing anything behind a bike but in a pickup you want the trailer brakes to come on just enough so that you can tell they're on but not so much that the trailer is dragging you down before the tow vehicle brakes are activating.

Brake Pad

07-15-2008, 06:39 PM

Its hard to ride a bike, with the thought, of expect the unexpected,
when I pull my trailer, I stay away from cars riding next to me, I slow down.
I always ride the right lane, but move to the center, when coming up on merge lanes.
In rain, I get off highways, and ride secondary roads.
I'm almost toooo careful.
Sure, I've been down 3 times, twice on Ice, and a Deer strike.
I know I was going down, but I swerved at the last second, and only caught Her head, down the left side of the bike, I went off the road into a ditch.
wild thing about it, when the bike stopped, i was still sitting on it.
But I had already lost controll, I was bracing for inpact

hillrider

07-15-2008, 07:07 PM

Has anyone added electric brakes to an existing trailer?? How much trouble - approx cost (500 - 2000)? I looked at Dexter's site and really couldn't figure out if I could do it or not.

tx2sturgis

07-15-2008, 07:40 PM

One of the problems with electric trailer brakes is that if they are not perfectly balanced when applied, they can cause a side force at the hitch. Not a problem for a 4 wheel vehicle or a trike, but sure can be for a 2 wheel bike, especially when descending a grade on a curved road.

The other problem is that for a cargo type trailer, with varying loads, the brake application will need to be adjusted so that the wheels dont lockup when its nearly empty, especially when its raining or you have something like oil or wet leaves under one wheel but not the other... but still need to be adjusted for more force when loaded.

An acquaintance I used to know had used electric brakes on his motorcycle camper-trailer, and installed the controller, with the pendulum type sensor, INSIDE the trailer. He was told by all the so-called experts it wont work, but he did it anyway. It worked fine. This kept that ugly controller off the bike.

I dont have trailer brakes on mine, and they cant be added to it either. I just make adjustments to my riding style and I dont try to carry along everything including the kitchen sink!

BEER30

07-27-2008, 07:16 PM

Well , I have come to the conclusion to 2 ideas .
First Deer : Mount a giant razor blade in front of the scoot . Let say I'll just slice and dice my way though it .
Secondly trailer brakes: Linear actuator with bell crank linkage mounted under the BEERCART . Size 16 boot on the bottom of the linkage to drag myself to a stop . (Flinstone style) . This will also aid in lifting the BEERCART to change any flat tire !

Now that I have been pulling a trailer for some time now , I learn not to get in a hurry , unless I am following Muffinman . Though the BEERCART looks huge , it only weights 185 lbs. empty . I don't think I have hit 500 lbs. in it yet . And if I do , I'll even slow down further and watch my surroundings a whole lot better . I have noticed that I feel a lot more comfortable and more stable riding in the rain with it . The trailer helps keep me more in line when I hit standing water . Just keep in mind , slow it down and don't get in no hurry . Yes , take extra caution . Respect it , don't fear it !

BEER30

1 - UP

07-28-2008, 07:05 AM

I have electric brakes on my camper, but I haven't hooked them up yet. I can't figure out where to put the controls. (They are not water proof). Now after reading your story I'm thinking of how I can put the controls on my trike. :think: Thank you for sharing your story and getting me back on track.

Ken
1 - UP

Eddy

08-11-2008, 03:14 PM

Last Monday I wrecked in Pineville, Ky. There was a multiple car crash in front of me and I locked the breaks and yes I used the front also. I believe the trailer was pushing me just enough to add to my going down. I've done this before on wings in the past and they didn't lockup and I didn't lay the bike down. Needless to say, I'll probably be getting back on a wing even though I love the Venture much more.
Eddie

sarges46

08-12-2008, 01:48 AM

You ok Eddy? Sorry to hear about the wreck...hope its not too bad.

Eddy

08-12-2008, 07:58 AM

Yeah, just a little sore in a lot of places. The trailer I pull is a Cyclemate Zephyr and it is about 200# empty, so it's a fairly large trailer. I will pull it again and I'll just try to be as safe as I can. That's all any of us can do.
Eddie

ediddy

08-12-2008, 10:27 AM

One on my insureds pulls an aluma trailer with his goldwing. A car slammed on the brakes in front of him and he went down. Totaled the wing and did minor damage to the trailer. He had rode rash and a few bruises. The goldwing didn't stop him from going down.

DaveDanger

09-05-2008, 11:28 AM

Read this entire thread with interest since I'm wanting to pull a popup type camper trailer behind my new Venture.
I pulled a homebuilt utility trailer behind an '82 Magna 750 daily for about 12 years (it was my only transportation and the stuff had to go somewhere). No idea what kind of miles I racked up on the trailer, but the bike was given to a young fella for a restoration project after I'd put about 80k miles on it, and the trailer had been behind it most of that time.
I remember having to moderate my riding style with the trailer behind, as it does obviously push when stopping, and changes the acceleration curve as well when rolling off from a stop.
As long-time riders, we're all aware that no one out there sees us, or recognizes the limitations we have to deal with, so it's up to us to make our own riding zone as safe as possible. That includes watching every other vehicle within sight, thinking about the fact that deer can and do pop out from roadside brush with little or no notice, and that wet asphalt changes the way you can react to situations.
The initiator of this thread felt it seems, that it's almost an unacceptable risk to pull a trailer. Not to belittle his feelings after a take-down of this magnitude, I can sympathize, (A "grocery-getter" tagged me once before). But to take the attitude that you have to give up what you want to do, is unacceptable to me. you do what you desire to do, but change your approach to the situation in a manner that minimizes the risks. I mean, pulling onto the highway in my pickup truck increases the risk of me getting hit on a daily basis, I don't leave my truck at home and walk. Getting on any airplane and flying to a vacation destination increases my chances of drowning in an ocean, but I ain't walking or driving to South America because of it.
I hook up the trailer, and drive/ride more slowly. I anticipate a bit further ahead what I may have to do to react to the traffic I'm in. If the road is wet, I slow down even a bit more. If I have a passenger, I do all the same things. The bike is heaver than normal and will take longer to slow down, stop or control in a sudden reaction situation. I accept that and adjust my riding style.
JamminJohn, I'm tickled to see that you're still here to start this conversation and that you've already gotten another bike. get back on the horse and do what you want to do. Hope to meet you on the road someday :)