Advice? Switching to V-Max cams

[BadPigg]

I may have the chance to put some teeth into my 05 RSTD By changing out the valves ,cams ,timing curve and possibly changing pipes. I had been talking to the owner of a local Yammie shop who builds speed bikes for Bonneville. Cliff Gullett, Owner of Team Bozeman Motorsports has set several records himself. http://www.team-bozeman.com/custompage2.asp?pg=BonnevilleRacingTeam

For about $2300 he says he can get 115 hp out of my Turd De Lux. Yes thats an expensive mod so I wanted to know if anyone has had any experience doing this and if so what results? And to answer the inevitable next question ,No, its not fast enough for me. Its a great improvement over my 04 Roadie but this bikes performance flattens out after 80-90 mph. Ive already changed to K&Ns and rejetted for my altitude . But I'm looking for more mid range - top end performance.

Any opinions would be appreciated.
Eric

[WilCruise]

No first hand experience, but I beleive there's a bit more than a cam swap required to get the performance boost you're looking for. Can't tell you what else, and it may be accounted for in your guy's estimate, but you're doing the right thing by cheking it out first. Sounds like it could be a cool mod. :080402gudl_prv:

[pegscraper]

Was that 115 hp at the rear wheel or the crank? And what exactly does the $2300 buy you? If you can do the work yourself, you can put V-Max cams in the thing for a fraction of that. They go by on ebay from time to time. V-Max cams will open up the top end for you, but they aren't big enough yet to lose anything on the bottom.

Have you swapped in the V-Max rear gear? That will give you more acceleration all the way around.

I've put both V-Max cams and the V-boost valves in my bike, as well as ditched the 28mm carbs that the older Royal Stars have for the 32mm carbs that you already have. I'm creeping up on that hp level, if not there yet. I haven't done a dyno run since adding the V-boost, as I'm still ironing out the jetting. I operate the valves manually at the moment. Opening them up feels like pushing a NOS button. This engine can still use more air though. This winter I will be looking into seeing how much the carbs can be bored out.

[BadPigg]

Was that 115 hp at the rear wheel or the crank? And what exactly does the $2300 buy you? If you can do the work yourself, you can put V-Max cams in the thing for a fraction of that. They go by on ebay from time to time. V-Max cams will open up the top end for you, but they aren't big enough yet to lose anything on the bottom.

Have you swapped in the V-Max rear gear? That will give you more acceleration all the way around.

I've put both V-Max cams and the V-boost valves in my bike, as well as ditched the 28mm carbs that the older Royal Stars have for the 32mm carbs that you already have. I'm creeping up on that hp level, if not there yet. I haven't done a dyno run since adding the V-boost, as I'm still ironing out the jetting. I operate the valves manually at the moment. Opening them up feels like pushing a NOS button. This engine can still use more air though. This winter I will be looking into seeing how much the carbs can be bored out.

I cant recall if that was at the crank or wheel . I'm assuming at the crank. And he was not talking about a stock V-Max cam but a Hi perf. cam including re-doing the valves ,springs etc. And bumping my redline up to 7500. Is the V-Max rear a lower gearing? Also what are V-Boost cams? He's fairly well known for the Old Royal Star modifications, cant remember the specifics though.
Thanks
Eric

[Snarley Bill]

I may have the chance to put some teeth into my 05 RSTD By changing out the valves ,cams ,timing curve and possibly changing pipes. I had been talking to the owner of a local Yammie shop who builds speed bikes for Bonneville. Cliff Gullett, Owner of Team Bozeman Motorsports has set several records himself. http://www.team-bozeman.com/custompage2.asp?pg=BonnevilleRacingTeam

For about $2300 he says he can get 115 hp out of my Turd De Lux. Yes thats an expensive mod so I wanted to know if anyone has had any experience doing this and if so what results? And to answer the inevitable next question ,No, its not fast enough for me. Its a great improvement over my 04 Roadie but this bikes performance flattens out after 80-90 mph. Ive already changed to K&Ns and rejetted for my altitude . But I'm looking for more mid range - top end performance.

Any opinions would be appreciated.
Ericthe first mod you can do and will have to do if you go to v-max cams, is install a dyna 3000.this allows you to raise the rev limit.with out this you won't be able to use the power curve available with the cams.there is alot of power to be had with the stock cams.if you eliminate the rev limiter.the stock cams aren't all that bad.i'm thinking about maxxing out my rstd.with v-max heads and cams.the v-max heads have bigger ports and valves,and heavier springs to handle the 9500 red line on the max.i need to find out if the heads will bolt on to a 1300 block.try some exaust relief,dyna 3000, and a little rejetting and i think you will be surprised how much power you have on tap with your stock motor.i think mine runs pretty good for almost 900 pounds.i dusted a z car pretty good the other night,and never shifted.ran him from 30 to 75 in second gear.bill :2133:

[pegscraper]

The D3K would be necessary to raise the rev limit, or you won't see the maximum benefit from the cams. Actually the V-Max ports are the same size as what we already have. I had a set of V-Max heads once and compared them to our stock ones. The V-Max valves are 1mm larger with a 1/2mm smaller stem diameter, which isn't real significant. There are aftermarket valves available that are 2 or 3mm larger, which would make a difference. You would also have to have new guides put in the heads for the smaller stem diameter. By the time you're done that adds up to a bunch of bucks.

The V-Max rear gear has a little lower gear ratio. The V-Max gear ratio is 9/33, where all Ventures and Royal Stars have 10/33. It's enough to make a noticeable difference in acceleration, but not enough to do anything to gas mileage.

The V-boost system comes on all American V-Max bikes. Some foreign ones don't have it. It is a passage that runs between the front and rear intake boots on each side. It has a butterfly valve in it that opens up to allow any given cylinder to breathe from two carburetors. The V-boost parts fit nicely in the 1st gen Ventures. Putting them in the 2nd gens is a real project. It takes a lot of modification. On the V-Maxes, the V-boost opens automatically starting at 6000 rpms and is fully open at 8000 rpms. Some owners will modify the system to open at lower rpms than that. At the moment I have mine set up to open manually, and I generally run it open all the time once the engine warms up. The last dyno run I got was after I had swapped cams and carbs, but before the V-boost, and I was making 106 hp at the crank. With the V-boost I have to be getting close to 115 hp, and I haven't used oversize valves or larger aftermarket cams. It's all Yamaha factory stuff. Once I get the jetting ironed out I will get another dyno run.

Here are a couple pics of the V-boost valves.

[Snarley Bill]

The D3K would be necessary to raise the rev limit, or you won't see the maximum benefit from the cams. Actually the V-Max ports are the same size as what we already have. I had a set of V-Max heads once and compared them to our stock ones. The V-Max valves are 1mm larger with a 1/2mm smaller stem diameter, which isn't real significant. There are aftermarket valves available that are 2 or 3mm larger, which would make a difference. You would also have to have new guides put in the heads for the smaller stem diameter. By the time you're done that adds up to a bunch of bucks.

The V-Max rear gear has a little lower gear ratio. The V-Max gear ratio is 9/33, where all Ventures and Royal Stars have 10/33. It's enough to make a noticeable difference in acceleration, but not enough to do anything to gas mileage.

The V-boost system comes on all American V-Max bikes. Some foreign ones don't have it. It is a passage that runs between the front and rear intake boots on each side. It has a butterfly valve in it that opens up to allow any given cylinder to breathe from two carburetors. The V-boost parts fit nicely in the 1st gen Ventures. Putting them in the 2nd gens is a real project. It takes a lot of modification. On the V-Maxes, the V-boost opens automatically starting at 6000 rpms and is fully open at 8000 rpms. Some owners will modify the system to open at lower rpms than that. At the moment I have mine set up to open manually, and I generally run it open all the time once the engine warms up. The last dyno run I got was after I had swapped cams and carbs, but before the V-boost, and I was making 106 hp at the crank. With the V-boost I have to be getting close to 115 hp, and I haven't used oversize valves or larger aftermarket cams. It's all Yamaha factory stuff. Once I get the jetting ironed out I will get another dyno run.

Here are a couple pics of the V-boost valves. thanks for the info on the heads.bill :)

[hank]

Sounds like lot's of work. Ever though of just getting the new Roadliner?

[Snarley Bill]

Sounds like lot's of work. Ever though of just getting the new Roadliner? now what fun would that be.bill :rasberry:

[pegscraper]

My dealer tells me that the RSTD will take out the Roadliner anyway. V-twins need at least 500cc more to even have a chance of keeping up, and they still don't. Who wants a V-twin? I like my cruiser with a sportbike engine. It makes a real sleeper. Just have to correct the factory's detuning.

[hank]

I don't know about that. A buddy of mine has a built twin cam 95ci Harley and it's a little faster than the 05 RSTD.

[Redneck]

I don't know about that. A buddy of mine has a built twin cam 95ci Harley and it's a little faster than the 05 RSTD.that modified 95 ci harley is 262cc biger and it is just a little faster than a 1294cc.

[pegscraper]

Exactly. It took 262 more ccs plus modifications to make it only a little faster than a stock RSTD. V-twins are the most efficient way I know of to turn gasoline into noise. I'll grant it is a cool noise. I like the way they sound going down the road by my house. But I don't like their performance. When it comes to what I want to own and ride, it's horsepower, and a pushrod V-twin just doesn't make it.

[Snarley Bill]

Exactly. It took 262 more ccs plus modifications to make it only a little faster than a stock RSTD. V-twins are the most efficient way I know of to turn gasoline into noise. I'll grant it is a cool noise. I like the way they sound going down the road by my house. But I don't like their performance. When it comes to what I want to own and ride, it's horsepower, and a pushrod V-twin just doesn't make it. i agree. ive got a tricked out warrior with a built motor and i wish i had my v-max back.the warrior is ultra fast but it just ain't no max.my rstd gives me the best of both worlds.cruiser styling and get up and go in luxury.bill

[pegscraper]

...get up and go in luxury.

That's me. I'm a guy who likes to hot rod Cadillacs, and have.

I'd rather look bad and win, than look cool and lose. (A while back I had this phrase in my sig: Never run a bike that looks or sounds faster than it is.) And the bonus is that RSTDs don't even look bad. They look better than any HD. HD should take a few styling lessons from Yamaha. Round and square shapes on the same bike just don't go together.

[BadPigg]

Thanks for the info Pegscraper,
I think I'll start with the Dyno first. That may be enough to satisfy me. If so that'll save me a couple grand. And I agree it is a detuned sport bike engine. I remember hearing about what the first batch of V-Max bikes were doing.

"Too much power in the wrong hands can be dangerous- look at Oprah."

[Tommy]

Why don't you just buy my 1998 V-max and be done with it??

[BadPigg]

Why don't you just buy my 1998 V-max and be done with it??
Well I think this RSTD is a fantastic bike for me, I just want to squeeze the best possible performance out of it that I can. The V-Max doesnt suit me that well. And since I cant have my FJR for a couple of years,:confused24:
I plan to make this a go-fast bike for now. You know, new bike, might as well use it.
Incidently I went for a quick ride (120miles) before a cold front came in and wanted to finaly see what my GPS would register the max speed as. While coming down a slight grade with a tail wind I hit the Rev-Limiter at 114 mph while the speedo was buried a little past 120.

I've already ordered the DK3!! HooHaa!!

[Squidley]

i'm thinking about maxxing out my rstd.with v-max heads and cams.the v-max heads have bigger ports and valves,and heavier springs to handle the 9500 red line on the max.i need to find out if the heads will bolt on to a 1300 block.:2133:

Bill,

1st generation Vmax heads will bolt on to the the G2 RSTD block but the exhaust ports are angled differently. Vmax is fwd strait out and the RSTD's like the G2's are angled out towards the outside of the engine. I believe that you would have to do a total custom exhaust and I dont know if there is clearance for all of that :confused24:

I too would like to do a Vmax swap at least the rear gears, cams and a Dana, they really bogged down the G2 motor as I know what these engines are capable of :happy34:

[Toolman]

I have a Max Vboost that is for sale and a Max rearend that could be sold or exchanged, The 1300 venture carbs are ther same size as the max. its just a matter of jetting. the 7500 rpm redline on the venture is low because of the low compression pistons. I have tried the Max rear on a 1300 venture and it works very well. If intrested contact me at the__toolman@hotmail.com

[helomech]

This all sounds really cool, and I'm thinking I may try it someday. I have one question though. What, exactly, is a 'Dyna 3000k'?:think:

[Snarley Bill]

This all sounds really cool, and I'm thinking I may try it someday. I have one question though. What, exactly, is a 'Dyna 3000k'?:think:it modifies the stock advance curve,for more performance,and raises the rev limit.i have mine set for 7200 rpm and there is alot of hp. to be had up there.bill :)

[BuddyRich]

it modifies the stock advance curve,for more performance,and raises the rev limit.i have mine set for 7200 rpm and there is alot of hp. to be had up there.bill :)

Latelly I have been hittin that rev limit more and more. And the bike is just getting started. Guess I have to get one.

And the comment about a HD outrunnin an RSTD or RSV. When I see it I'll beleive it.
Passed a stage 3 the other day. Heard him hit the throttle wide open. Still left him in the dust. He wasn't there no more at 120 and the RSV was still pullin away. Maybe he broke it. :rotf:

[Snarley Bill]

i hit the rev limiter the other day in 1rst gear on my 05 rstd at 7200 rpm and it was still pulling hard.the stock cams in these things are better than i thought,and 7200 is just loafing for this motor.i shifted my v-max at 9500.i'm running baron nasty boys and rejetted carbs with the dyna 3000 on level 3,with 7200 rev limit and k&n filters.need to pull the carbs again and open the main jets up a little.it gets a little lean after 5000 rpm.for a heavy bike ,i am impressed how good these things can run.bill :)

[Denden]

i hit the rev limiter the other day in 1rst gear on my 05 rstd at 7200 rpm and it was still pulling hard.the stock cams in these things are better than i thought,and 7200 is just loafing for this motor.i shifted my v-max at 9500.i'm running baron nasty boys and rejetted carbs with the dyna 3000 on level 3,with 7200 rev limit and k&n filters.need to pull the carbs again and open the main jets up a little.it gets a little lean after 5000 rpm.for a heavy bike ,i am impressed how good these things can run.bill :)
go up one size on the pilot jets, while you're at it ( to 17.5 ). And take a look at the air filter boxes. Yamaha actually calls them "silencers" in the parts list. The air intake is 45mm, the rubber tube that they attach to is 48mm ID. Go figure. Your intake is restricted right there. I opened up the boxes intake opening to 52mm, just to make sure. With one size larger mains all around, and one size up on the pilot jets, and RK mufflers drilled out to be straight thru. Shimmed the needles one shim. I really need a Dyna ignition, damn that rev limiter.
Don't try to get V-Max revs, though. They have heavier valve springs, forged pistons and rods, so they can take it to 9500rpm. 1st gens with cams and valve springs like the 2nd gens redline at 7500rpm,and run over that very easily. I regularly shift my '83 at 8000rpm, and it has 76k miles.
I bought the Factory Pro jet kit for my RSV, with adjustable needles. The stock needles work better. Their kit recommends doing away with the stock staggered jetting. With opened up exhaust, they call for front main jets ( #2 and #4 ) 125, rear ( #1 and #3 ) 127.5. I haven't tried it, that seems a little big on the jets, but if you open up the airbox, and with a Dyna ignition, it might work. Gas mileage will go to hell, though. With my one size up mains (stock staggering) and 17.5 pilots, I'm still getting 40mpg. And I can spin the rear wheel one-up, or get the front wheel off the ground, 2-up...with witnesses.

[pegscraper]

Any witnesses with cameras? Post some pics. Not that I don't believe it. I just want to see it anyway.

[Squidley]

Any witnesses with cameras? Post some pics. Not that I don't believe it. I just want to see it anyway.

I too have had my G2 front end off the ground, ever so slightly but the steering was gone for a second. It's tough to get a pic of it as it's a very quick occurance and many times done accidentally.

[Tartan Terror]

I was wondering if you had a good machine shop if you could have the heads on the G2 modified to accept the Vmax valves and springs and such. I have heard but could be wrong that the G2 cams are bigger that the Vmax cams but if out could get more fuel and air it then assuming the rest of the engine if the same then you should get more power of course raising the revs by using the DK3000 module too.

[Denden]

Any witnesses with cameras? Post some pics. Not that I don't believe it. I just want to see it anyway.
No pictures...my wife would never go for that, it is always something of a surprise. After, I always get a good hard helmet slap..."You should have warned me you were going to do that".:whistling: Although on one ride out in the country with a group, I announced on the CB that I was going to nail it from a stop sign, since the road was straight and clear of driveways. (Wife saying " No,no, don't do that with me on" :scared: ). Eddie (the Shiney One) was next to me, he said I got about a foot off the ground. It's hard to tell how high while doing it. Al Bates has seen me do it a number of times.
The first time, it was sort of a mistake and surprise. I had slowed down because a car in my lane up ahead of me was making a left turn, and stopped to let traffic clear. As I got close, I downshifted to ( I thought ) 2nd, but I was in 1st gear, clutch in, coasting, slowed to about 10-20mph, the car turned out of my way, so I nailed it. Must have hit the torque peak in first gear. If my wife isn't on the back, it won't lift the wheel, but I get some rear wheel spin. I think the 17.5 pilot jets help, along with the straight thru RK mufflers...I have gobs of low end torque, and neck snapping throttle response.
I have tried the Factory Pro stage 1 jet kit recommended jetting...both front carbs 122.5 , both rear carbs 125, all 4 pilot jets #20, and factory pro needles on 2nd clip. Power was awesome thru the rev range. Gobs of low end torque, and revved fast to rev limiter, still pulling very hard. Gas mileage sucked, around 30mpg or less, it was going down fast. I had a trip coming up so I didn't leave it that way, went back to stock jetting for the trip. Then tried to come up with a compromise between power and gas mileage. I settled for 40 mpg's, with the setup I have now. Not quite as much high rev power, but low and midrange is great. I don't race all that much anymore. So I never spent the money for the Dyna ignition, to raise the rev limit.

[Denden]

I was wondering if you had a good machine shop if you could have the heads on the G2 modified to accept the Vmax valves and springs and such. I have heard but could be wrong that the G2 cams are bigger that the Vmax cams but if out could get more fuel and air it then assuming the rest of the engine if the same then you should get more power of course raising the revs by using the DK3000 module too.
I've got V-max cams I'm planning on putting in my '83 this winter. Just by looking at them, the have a longer open duration. Venture cam lobes have a narrow peak, V-max cam lobes are round, wider at the max lift area, valves stay open longer. Can't tell for sure, but I suspect they have more overlap, too. I don't think the slightly larger V-Max valves will get you much gain, and the V-Max cams are designed to work with the V-max V-Boost induction, where you have each cylinder drawing from 2 carbs in the intake stroke, at high revs. And remember the V-Max has stronger Con rods ( forged ) and higher compression forged pistons ( 10.5 to 1 ) vs. Venture cast pistons 10 to 1.

[Tartan Terror]

I've got V-max cams I'm planning on putting in my '83 this winter. Just by looking at them, the have a longer open duration. Venture cam lobes have a narrow peak, V-max cam lobes are round, wider at the max lift area, valves stay open longer. Can't tell for sure, but I suspect they have more overlap, too. I don't think the slightly larger V-Max valves will get you much gain, and the V-Max cams are designed to work with the V-max V-Boost induction, where you have each cylinder drawing from 2 carbs in the intake stroke, at high revs. And remember the V-Max has stronger Con rods ( forged ) and higher compression forged pistons ( 10.5 to 1 ) vs. Venture cast pistons 10 to 1.
so basicly depending on how much I want to spend I f I changed the pistons and rods. Put in Vmax cams and springs and maybe port the heads and also add the vboost (is this possible. I think pegscraper has it) this will be wild!!!

[pegscraper]

I wouldn't worry about the stock pistons and rods. The D3K for this bike will only allow 8000 rpms. The stock bottom end can take that much. I wouldn't spend the money on putting the V-Max valves in. They're only 1mm larger with a 1/2mm smaller stem, meaing you need new guides also. They're not enough to make the cost and effort worthwhile. If you really want larger valves, go with aftermarket larger ones. I think it's PCW who has oversize valves. They're something like 2 or 3 mm larger, which would be more worthwhile. Unless you put oversize valves in, porting the heads won't gain anything significant either. I was really impressed with the smoothness of these castings.

Cams/springs and bigger carbs are where you will see the most advantage. Cams and valve springs themselves are a straight swap.

Stock Venture cams have 206* dur. @ .050 and .303 lift.
Stock V-Max cams have .236* dur. @ .050 and .325 lift.

The V-Max cams are very similar to what the old XS1100s had, which did not have any V-boost. Both PCW and Webcams have larger cams than that available. One or the other or maybe both of these companies have adjustable cam gears that would let you degree the cams in and set any amount of cam advance and overlap you want.

Bigger cams in this engine require a modified airbox, or you're just wasting half the potential. The stock airboxes are really convoluted. Even then the engine could take more induction capability, which is why I installed the V-boost. In the 2nd gens, I'll tell you, that is a JOB. Not for the timid. It requires custom work on the intake boots and the V-boost valves themselves. Then are numerous other tiny little issues and details that have to be addressed and fiddled with to get it all finished and functional. But it can be done. Here is a pic. Just try adjusting the sync screws with this thing in the way. These carbs weren't designed with V-boost in mind. I'll tell you, this thing runs like stink. Just take all the adjectives the 1st genners use to describe how fast they think their bikes are, and then double them. :stirthepot:

[Denden]

so basicly depending on how much I want to spend I f I changed the pistons and rods. Put in Vmax cams and springs and maybe port the heads and also add the vboost (is this possible. I think pegscraper has it) this will be wild!!!
V-Max pistons will raise the compression ration from 10:1 to 10.5:1, and since they are forged instead of cast, they are stronger. The V-Max con rods won't do anything for performance but are stronger. V-Max cams and springs will add power at higher revs. I don't know of anyone who has managed to get the V-boost to fit under a RSV gas tank. I think pegscraper is working on an early version of the Royal Star...different in a few areas from the RSV. The early Royal Star cruisers had very de-tuned V4, with no balance shaft, smaller carbs, different airbox than either the 1st gen or 2nd gen Venture.
If you could get the V-boost to fit, it raises your carbs by about 1/2 to 3/4 inch. And it is worth about 5 to 7 HP, at revs over 5000. Hard to do with the RSV airbox.
Open up the air box inlet hole, K & N air filter, free flowing exhaust ( Harley Road King mufflers with the baffles drilled out are the best bang for the buck), V-max cams and pistons (and rods for strength), and get it jetted right. Then add a Dyna ignition, play around with the spark curve, rev limit at 8000. THAT would be a screamer, and hold together pretty good. Don't count on any gas mileage. The whole trick would be getting it jetted right, getting the needles shimmed to the right hieght. There is a big difference between getting the jetting so the bike runs well, and getting "right-on". When it is "right-on", it will be impressive. But it's not easy.
If you did get the V-Boost to fit, getting the jetting right will take a LOT of trial and error. Some who have added V-Boost to 1st gens have described getting the jetting right-on, as "dancing with the devil".

[Tartan Terror]

For me its more curiosity that anything else. I would never sacrafice reliability for more power. I know that down the line I plan on the Dyna and then maybe after that we we will see. I have the roadking exhaust already and I would consider the Vmax cams of course depending on how complicated it is. If I could get 5 or 6 more horse then I would be very happy. Just for now getting away from the limiter would be nice. How much work is involved with changing the cams and Valve springs and is this something I could do myself to a benefit??

[Snarley Bill]

V-Max pistons will raise the compression ration from 10:1 to 10.5:1, and since they are forged instead of cast, they are stronger. The V-Max con rods won't do anything for performance but are stronger. V-Max cams and springs will add power at higher revs. I don't know of anyone who has managed to get the V-boost to fit under a RSV gas tank. I think pegscraper is working on an early version of the Royal Star...different in a few areas from the RSV. The early Royal Star cruisers had very de-tuned V4, with no balance shaft, smaller carbs, different airbox than either the 1st gen or 2nd gen Venture.
If you could get the V-boost to fit, it raises your carbs by about 1/2 to 3/4 inch. And it is worth about 5 to 7 HP, at revs over 5000. Hard to do with the RSV airbox.
Open up the air box inlet hole, K & N air filter, free flowing exhaust ( Harley Road King mufflers with the baffles drilled out are the best bang for the buck), V-max cams and pistons (and rods for strength), and get it jetted right. Then add a Dyna ignition, play around with the spark curve, rev limit at 8000. THAT would be a screamer, and hold together pretty good. Don't count on any gas mileage. The whole trick would be getting it jetted right, getting the needles shimmed to the right hieght. There is a big difference between getting the jetting so the bike runs well, and getting "right-on". When it is "right-on", it will be impressive. But it's not easy.
If you did get the V-Boost to fit, getting the jetting right will take a LOT of trial and error. Some who have added V-Boost to 1st gens have described getting the jetting right-on, as "dancing with the devil".v-max pistons won't fit to small the stock rods are forged and plenty strong.the 17.5 jets are to small i drilled my stock pilot jets out .0015 thousandths, thats .001 larger than the 17.5 pilots.wanted to drill the mains out .002 but did'nt have the right size drill bit it might take .003 but i want to go a little at a time.as soon as i get the drill bit i will pull the carbs again.i believe you can pull the wheel with two people mine will almost pull the wheel on a roll-on riding solo.i think if i had a v-max rear end it would pull the wheel on a roll on.never tried it two up but i think it would on a roll on.it is definately hurting for fuel over 5000 since it is jetted for 5500 from the factory.it will use alot more air at 7200 thus it needs more fuel.i've done about all i'm going to do don't want to lose reliability and gas mileage.i did'nt mess with the metering rods because if you mike the taper on the metering rod and then move the mike up the thickness of the spacer and mike it again the difference in the diameter is miniscule.don't think it would make a noticible diference.i've got the baffles in my nasty boys moified for a wide power band and lots of lowend torque.it has much more throttle responce than stock.if i could knock off about 300 pounds it would be a bad motorscooter. :)

[pegscraper]

Yes, my bike is a '96 Royal Star, but it's my understanding that Ventures and newer TDs have more room under the tank than I do. You have bigger tanks and wider frames. My installing the V-boost valves didn't raise the carbs at all. There wasn't room to do that anyway. I did it all without cutting the frame or the tank. My bike is making a dyno proven 90 rear wheel hp and 106 hp at the crank. Depending on whose dyno you want to believe, that's between 11 and 18 more hp than a stock Venture. That was after adding 32mm carbs (which the rest of you already have anyway), V-Max cams, and through the stock exhaust. And that was before the V-boost. I haven't done another run yet since the V-boost.

I didn't use the factory's electronics to operate the V-boost valves. I have two ways I can operate them. I can set them up to open progressively as the throttle is opened, or I can set them up to open manually. At the moment I have them manual, so I can leave them open all the time, or open or close them under any operating conditions. Leaving them open all the time offers big gains all the way down to idle. Opening them up while accelerating feels like pushing a NOS button. Leaving them open at idle makes the bike sound like it has a huge cam in it. The exhaust note has quite a thump. There's nothing else on the road that sounds like a V4 with the V-boost wide open.

[jdunique]

My dealer tells me that the RSTD will take out the Roadliner anyway. V-twins need at least 500cc more to even have a chance of keeping up, and they still don't. Who wants a V-twin? I like my cruiser with a sportbike engine. It makes a real sleeper. Just have to correct the factory's detuning.

It is a different kind of power (read: not peaky mostly torque) but my Stratoliner will run off and leave my Venture like its tied to a post!!

[MANIC MECHANIC]

It is a different kind of power (read: not peaky mostly torque) but my Stratoliner will run off and leave my Venture like its tied to a post!!
They sure will!!!

[Snarley Bill]

It is a different kind of power (read: not peaky mostly torque) but my Stratoliner will run off and leave my Venture like its tied to a post!!if it runs as good as a stock warrior it should walk on a venture bad.like racing a cadillac with an L-88 vet.i am impressed with the way my rstd runs for as heavy as it is, but i am still in the real world.ive owned alot of really fast bikes,and a venture whether it be a 1rst or 2nd gen ain't even close to being fast,and they weren't designed to be fast.if you wan't to feel what fast is all about. ride a hyabusa.10 second bikes are scary unpredictable fast.been there done that many times.my speedstar warrior is on the edge of being unpredictable,but nothing like these new crotch rockets.:2133:
:stirthepot:

[MANIC MECHANIC]

If you really want to experience fast ride a 7 second alchohol drag bike! The new stratoliner will rip the stock roadstar warrior a NEW ONE! Not even close. That being said what do you think it would do to a 900 lb touring bike?

[scooper]

I will be the third to say that my Strat will kill my Venture in a race. I love the V-4 line and have had three Royals and two Ventures but stock for stock the Strat will win. Now you can beef up a Royal to 130+ hp like Dan Peach did. But the same can be done to a Strat too.
By the way the Yamaha techs say the the Strat will eat a Warrior too .
Later
Scooper

[MANIC MECHANIC]

Yeah, I remember in Yamaha school they told us all to go back to our dealership and ride the new Stratoliner because it was unbelievable, they were right! It is based on the warrior and not the roadstar, its basically a dressed up warrior with a big bore kit.

[Snarley Bill]

If you really want to experience fast ride a 7 second alchohol drag bike! The new stratoliner will rip the stock roadstar warrior a NEW ONE! Not even close. That being said what do you think it would do to a 900 lb touring bike?i would have to see that to belive it.i may be wrong but i don't think it will beat a stock warrior.i'm sure the warrior would not run off and leave it but the difference in weight will cancel out the extra cubes.not to mention the warrior has a little more performance tuning.i am going to do some checking on the warrior verses stratoliner.bill

[MANIC MECHANIC]

Oh, I'm telling you. I have not only ridden daily, but modified to the max the warrior engine, and the stratoliner will kill it! They gave reasons for this at yamaha classes, the stratoliner is actually a more technically advanced engine in alot of ways. I did the recall on around 35-40 of the roadstar/roadstar warriors and I can say that I pretty much consider myself an expert on those engines, you could dump one in a box and I could build the engine with my eyes closes and half a brain tied behind my back. I did little but rebuild those engines for 6 months straight every darn day. You should schedule a test ride on the new stratoliner at your local dealer asap, I know that yamaha wanted all dealers to have a demo stratoliner/roadliner for customers to ride (thats how confident they are in it).

[Snarley Bill]

Oh, I'm telling you. I have not only ridden daily, but modified to the max the warrior engine, and the stratoliner will kill it! They gave reasons for this at yamaha classes, the stratoliner is actually a more technically advanced engine in alot of ways. I did the recall on around 35-40 of the roadstar/roadstar warriors and I can say that I pretty much consider myself an expert on those engines, you could dump one in a box and I could build the engine with my eyes closes and half a brain tied behind my back. I did little but rebuild those engines for 6 months straight every darn day. You should schedule a test ride on the new stratoliner at your local dealer asap, I know that yamaha wanted all dealers to have a demo stratoliner/roadliner for customers to ride (thats how confident they are in it).i also know the warrior inside out.i think you must think people on here are stupid.your still wet behind the ears.i was working on yamaha's before you were born.i had a cycle shop in the 60's.i've been dragracing ,done motocross,professional hillclimbing,etc.etc.hate to be so harsh but you got to get up alot earlier to bull xxxx me.:stirthepot: :rasberry:

[MANIC MECHANIC]

Oh, trust me at least a few of your members on here can tell you that I'm not "wet behind ANYTHING" if you believe that, then it is you who are ALL WET. It has nothing to do with who was around in what year, that has nothing to do with who is better at something. Henry ford the first was around before the current ceo of ford, that does'nt mean that his designs are better than the newer ones. Harley was around before Yamaha, that does'nt mean that Harley has a better design than Yamaha. It simply means if anything that we have learned from the mistakes of the past. Knowledge and technology will always push forward period. I have knowledge that people would'nt have dreamed of 20-30 years ago, engine technology has advanced by leaps and bounds since the 60's and 70's and if your still depending on that skill level for your own purposes then that is up to you, but spreading mis-information to an unsuspecting group of people is wrong. Also just because a person just now signed up on a message board, does'nt mean that the person has no knowledge of the subject matter, what is wrong with you? As usual every board has at least one person that is afraid of losing the postion of the "goto person" of the board, and that person always shows themselves as soon as they are threatened. We now know who those people are on this board. With the amount of mis-information and guessing that I see on this board, I would think that you should welcome someone in the business. Would you trust a surgeon that has seen a heart transplant done once or a specialist that does them everyday? thats the question you have to ask yourself.

[Tartan Terror]

i also know the warrior inside out.i think you must think people on here are stupid.your still wet behind the ears.i was working on yamaha's before you were born.i had a cycle shop in the 60's.i've been dragracing ,done motocross,professional hillclimbing,etc.etc.hate to be so harsh but you got to get up alot earlier to bull xxxx me.:stirthepot: :rasberry:

Hey Bill, I think you got that right. His profile says still in college. I remember when I was that young I knew it all too. With experience we learn. Most of all we learn to be a little more tactful. He will learn I think.

[MANIC MECHANIC]

"i also know the warrior inside out" Oh, really? care to explain the fuel injection system us? What is the push rod arrangement on the warrior and more importantly why? What design changes were made to the transmission shafts during the recall? Look, just because you own a warrior (a great bike) and it is no longer king of the hill in the Yamaha v-twin lineup, is no reason to get your ***** hurt at anyone. All I can recommend is that you ride the new stuff before you judge, of course I can clearly see that even after riding the new one, you would be the type to say that there is no difference:no-no-no: . The specs dont lie, the strat makes alot more power, that simple.

[Tartan Terror]

Mechanic-- What do you ride?

[MANIC MECHANIC]

All of em' I have seven bikes at the current. lol

[Tartan Terror]

Well what are they Hero?!

[MANIC MECHANIC]

Mostly sportbikes and some mx machines as I had a pro license and had to keep plenty of spares. (thats why there are seven)

[Snarley Bill]

i know one thing you got me beat on the ego.i thought i was pretty egotistical.yes i know all about the fuel injection and the circlip groove on the recall ,and the short push rod.i've had my warrior apart several times patrick racing pistons, speedstar cams second addition,heads ported, three angle valve job,vance and hines pro pipe,big air kit,dynojet usmb,31 tooth pulley,and yes it runs good.and i had a tricked out v-max,an all out gs 1100 suzuki,and to many more to bore you with.i had dealerships for yoshimura ,performance machine ,and many other speed equipment manufacturers.been doing head work and carb work and building engines for 40 years so i think i may know a little something. :rasberry:

[dakotasport]

I can tell ya that i have ridden a roadliner and own a 05 midnight venture , that roadliner is fast...........
If i was just to do the dyna 3000 on my 05 venture will it help.thanks tim

[MANIC MECHANIC]

These guys dont believe me, the roadliner is FAST. Its not sportbike fast, but its fast. Like they say in the military: if you can do it, it aint braggin'. There is a difference between arrogance and confidence, thats all. I'm confident.

[Tommy]

Man, I'm tellin ya,...buy my 98 V-max...swap out the engines and go looking for a new 1800 Goldwing....You'll blow him in the weeds and, you'll never get the smile off your face...

[Tour Deluxe]

Yeah,Yeah, Yeah stratroliner are fast and have a lot of torque, but new Tech. ??, Pushrods ??, Harley Copies ?. A 85 V-Max will wind a startolounger's clock (But who gives a d---). I rode one and was not impressed w/ the built in shake (Harley Cool). I think yamaha is trying hard to push this Yamaharley down are throughts, I ain't buying it, If you want the real thing then buy the real thing. The V-four is a great alternative to the potato- potato. I can't understand all this me to bull.

[Redneck]

i know one thing you got me beat on the ego.i thought i was pretty egotistical.yes i know all about the fuel injection and the circlip groove on the recall ,and the short push rod.i've had my warrior apart several times patrick racing pistons, speedstar cams second addition,heads ported, three angle valve job,vance and hines pro pipe,big air kit,dynojet usmb,31 tooth pulley,and yes it runs good.and i had a tricked out v-max,an all out gs 1100 suzuki,and to many more to bore you with.i had dealerships for yoshimura ,performance machine ,and many other speed equipment manufacturers.been doing head work and carb work and building engines for 40 years so i think i may know a little something. :rasberry:Heck Bill only 40 years experience you can't know as much as him. He's been to yamaha propaganda school. When I was his age I knew everything now I'm just smart enough to realize how little I know.:stirthepot::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

[Tartan Terror]

Heck Bill only 40 years experience you can't know as much as him. He's been to yamaha propaganda school. When I was his age I knew everything now I'm just smart enough to realize how little I know.:stirthepot::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

What he Said!!!! Thats Right!!! LOL

[Denden]

Well, c'mon now. You guys all know what it was like to know everything, we were all that smart once upon a time. But I welcome Manic Mechanic. Aint nothing wrong with adding some school learning to this here forum. It should go well with all the experience floating around here. Give and take...we're all friends here, and we all have something to add. And we all have something to learn, your experience has taught you that, hasn't it?

[Denden]

Yeah,Yeah, Yeah stratroliner are fast and have a lot of torque, but new Tech. ??, Pushrods ??, Harley Copies ?. A 85 V-Max will wind a startolounger's clock (But who gives a d---). I rode one and was not impressed w/ the built in shake (Harley Cool). I think yamaha is trying hard to push this Yamaharley down are throughts, I ain't buying it, If you want the real thing then buy the real thing. The V-four is a great alternative to the potato- potato. I can't understand all this me to bull.
Just because it's a V-Twin doesn't make it a Harley copy, IMHO. I've riden the Stratoliner, I love the feel of the motor, love that low end torque. Damn thing feels like it doesn't even need a transmission, just twist the grip and it goes, no matter at what revs. The V4 is a great motor, but there is room in my garage for a V-Twin, too. I consider my VTX "the real thing", and I've never had the urge to spend too much money to have the "proper" name on the tank.

[Freebird]

I would like to take one for a test ride. I always liked the bikes with a lot of low end torque. Lot of fun.

[Snarley Bill]

hey manic mechanic ,you past the test ,we had to give you a little hell.you'll be alright.when you knock heads with us old farts you got to get up awful early in the morning.you know i always say the older i got the smarter my dad got.when i turned thirty i realized he wasn't as dumb as he acted.you will find out someday that age brings wisdom.don't know what happened in my case i still ain't wise.so fall back in and lets talk tech on a friendly basis.bill:)

[Snarley Bill]

Just because it's a V-Twin doesn't make it a Harley copy, IMHO. I've riden the Stratoliner, I love the feel of the motor, love that low end torque. Damn thing feels like it doesn't even need a transmission, just twist the grip and it goes, no matter at what revs. The V4 is a great motor, but there is room in my garage for a V-Twin, too. I consider my VTX "the real thing", and I've never had the urge to spend too much money to have the "proper" name on the tank. i agree it is an awsome bike.the first one i saw at stardays really turned me on.they do need a full blown touring version, for those who like the v-twin feel.i think they would sell good.i like the v-4 myself because it is soooo smooth.:)

[Tour Deluxe]

Yeah, I rode one, they do have lots of torque.I've seen them on e-bay selling for up to 5k off list already. Is it selling ? You have to choose where you are willing to loose your money, up front or at resale time.Bet I here a bunch of s--- about that.:080402gudl_prv:

[hank]

Local dealer just had (4) new 06 RSTD's for $10,500 with no additional BS charges. Think they lasted about one day.......... :cool10:

[Tour Deluxe]

That's were I choose to loose mine.

[MANIC MECHANIC]

i agree it is an awsome bike.the first one i saw at stardays really turned me on.they do need a full blown touring version, for those who like the v-twin feel.i think they would sell good.i like the v-4 myself because it is soooo smooth.:)
We have said for a while now that they could use a full blown dresser version of either the roadstar or the roadliner, but who knows why they dont like to listen? I'm thinking that eventually the venture will be based on the roadliner instead of using the vmax platform. The vmax (venture) engine is not going to be able to pass emissions much longer, since they are cracking down on bikes these days hardcore. They have even started replacing the vstars with a new liquid cooled fuel injected bike (vstar 1300). So my thinking is that the venture as you know it will be on either its last legs, or it will get an entire new v-4 that will meet emissions etc. The new vmax looks incredible, who knows if it will make it over to our shores or not though, its said to make 200hp.

[Freebird]

I would be very surprised if the V4 does not already meet most EPA requirements and if not, it would be VERY simple for it to do so. Heck...with the addition of the carbon canister, it already meets the strict California requirements. It wouldn't be very difficult to add fuel injection. I really don't look for the V4 to go away because of EPA regulations.

[Snarley Bill]

the new v-max engine is a redesigned v-4 with 1800 cc's and injection.could this be the new venture engine of the future to compete with the wing?could be.hope i can afford the new max when it gets here.i want one bad.if they use the new max based motor i am sure the new venture will use the new process cast aluminum frame like the stratoliner and warrior.it's a process they use to create thin wall castings which they weld together to create the frame.it looks like tubing but is actually all castings.very light weight. :)

[Rick Butler]

Yeah Bill,

That's kinda my thought that they would take that 1800 V-Max driveline and drop it into their Kind Touring bike and add fuel injection and maybe catalitic convertors. But like you said, this 1800 is a redesigned 1300 because the 1300 engine can only be bored to 1500 safely.

Something to dream about,

Rick

[Tartan Terror]

the new v-max engine is a redesigned v-4 with 1800 cc's and injection.could this be the new venture engine of the future to compete with the wing?could be.hope i can afford the new max when it gets here.i want one bad.if they use the new max based motor i am sure the new venture will use the new process cast aluminum frame like the stratoliner and warrior.it's a process they use to create thin wall castings which they weld together to create the frame.it looks like tubing but is actually all castings.very light weight. :)
A lighter and faster Venture. I get chills!! Hopefully with the same comfort. Making me dream!!!

[Snarley Bill]

think of it.a 130 hp. venture with 150 ft. lbs. of torque in a 100 lb. lighter bike.mid 12 sec. 1/4 mile,140 top speed.very good possibility.they would'nt design a whole new motor just for a slow seller like the v-max.it costs to much.and from the looks of the new motor nothing is anything like the old one.now that would be the ultimate touring machine.just hope they don't get carried away and make it look like a crotch rocket instead of a motorcycle. although with the changing times it will probably have to look futuristic like the wing.:2133:

[hank]

I'm still waiting for that V-Max bagger model. Same HP, but built like the new Roadliner.

[Tour Deluxe]

I also think that yamaha is planning on the roadliner platform for their next touring bike. I would prefer the stay w/ a smoother "v" four design. I like the idea of a 1800 V-Max/Venture w/ cruise styling.

[Stoutman]

think of it.a 130 hp. venture with 150 ft. lbs. of torque in a 100 lb. lighter bike.mid 12 sec. 1/4 mile,140 top speed.very good possibility.they would'nt design a whole new motor just for a slow seller like the v-max.it costs to much.and from the looks of the new motor nothing is anything like the old one.now that would be the ultimate touring machine.just hope they don't get carried away and make it look like a crotch rocket instead of a motorcycle. although with the changing times it will probably have to look futuristic like the wing.:2133:

As long as it has good binders (read antilock) and a comfortable seat (read NOT RSTD) I'm up for a new bike as soon as the kids are out of college. Lets hope it gets here before I'm on Medicare.

[Snarley Bill]

dealer in springfield, mo. told me that the new max would probably debut in 2008.i figure they will run that for the year before they intro a new venture. :2133:

[jkdickson@rogers.com]

Why not consider a Turbo, it will cost more but the thing should rock !!!

I'm trying to find one to find out what's involved and the cost.

Has anyone head about one for the Venture ?

[Yammer Dan]

I have a extra Saab Turbo, extra Venture engine. One of these days.......

[Squeeze]

Why not consider a Turbo, it will cost more but the thing should rock !!!

I'm trying to find one to find out what's involved and the cost.

Has anyone head about one for the Venture ?


Turbo isn't a good idea on a V4 Bike. Doesn't look good.

Go for a Rootscompressor, a Eaton from the Mini Cooper-Car fits ....

1200 cc Vmax Stock-Engine with Injection and Compressor pulls around 170 HP at 0.3 bar Pressure...

http://members.home.nl/rolfbulles/html/kompressor.html

[BadPigg]

Man , I cant believe how far these post's have gone.

I finally did put the Dyna3k on my Tur'd and while the weather here in MT hasnt been nice enough to put in a real good test, the short trips I've taken have shown an improvement. At least near bottom to midrange performance. I have tried the 7250 rpm with curve 3 then bumped it to the next setting7500 at curve 4, much better there.I can probably live with that now. But I really need to take it out on a long ride to find out for sure. I really can't go more than a couple of hundred miles (round trip) for a test . Because getting caught in freezing weather sucks.
My only other option it seems is gutting the engine and , well , MAX' ing it out. I would then have an 800 pound rocket or gorilla ,I guess, with a fuel range between 120 and 150 mile's depending on wrist action. But in a vision I had while contemplating the overhaul's expense and results I realized what I really needed was an FJR 1300. So , I think that I'm going to save up my sparkle bucks for a sport -tourer deluxe. with a range of 250+ miles and topped out at 160 mph I should be able to go to the moon and back!!
:cool10:

[Squeeze]

Man , I cant believe how far these post's have gone.

I finally did put the Dyna3k on my Tur'd and while the weather here in MT hasnt been nice enough to put in a real good test, the short trips I've taken have shown an improvement. At least near bottom to midrange performance. I have tried the 7250 rpm with curve 3 then bumped it to the next setting7500 at curve 4, much better there.I can probably live with that now. But I really need to take it out on a long ride to find out for sure. I really can't go more than a couple of hundred miles (round trip) for a test . Because getting caught in freezing weather sucks.
My only other option it seems is gutting the engine and , well , MAX' ing it out. I would then have an 800 pound rocket or gorilla ,I guess, with a fuel range between 120 and 150 mile's depending on wrist action. But in a vision I had while contemplating the overhaul's expense and results I realized what I really needed was an FJR 1300. So , I think that I'm going to save up my sparkle bucks for a sport -tourer deluxe. with a range of 250+ miles and topped out at 160 mph I should be able to go to the moon and back!!
:cool10:

Last Year, i've had a FJR1300 over a Weekeend. Friday/Saturday was taken as Testride for Selling. Sunday i paid the Rent for the Bike.

When i brought it back to Dealer, i was lucky to get back on my Max.
He asked me for pricing the Deal. He was quite confident that i'm have to be willing the Bike because of the Bike's strenght and Quality. I was not. I' was just before outlaughing him for this Kind of Crap. The Gastank gets very hot on riding at higher Temperatures. Fairing and so on was not bad at all. My Wife had a better Place on the rear Seat .... BUT ...

Even if this Engine is pumping around 145 HP and proper Torque, the Feeling of Power is bad. from 2k to 6.5 k it revs up quick, not far behind my Vmax, from there on to redline, there's only some Power, not as the Max or the Venture's pulling and zooming towards Horizon. It's the same as a Fireblade or GSX-R does Lots of Power, but nothing to the Heart.... R4 Engines, if you know what i'm trying to say. I've driven many Bikes in that Time, BMW GS1200, K1200LT, Honda XX. None was like a V4, not even close to it.
After that, i bought my '93 Venture and was pleased form the 1st Moment i'd driven it. Not to mention the Difference in Cost and Service you have to expect when buying a new Bike. May the technical Side say otherwise, i'll stick to V4 Engines.Take a long Ride an the FJR and test it to the Things you expect from your Bike.

[BadPigg]

[quote=Take a long Ride an the FJR and test it to the Things you expect from your Bike.[/quote]
Thats what I'm hoping to do this summer. They have rentals out in WA, which is close for me. The demo's I've ridden are no real way to get the feel of an FJR. I understand and might agree with your opinion on V4s. The FJR is a totally different machine. But when I first started riding thats the type of bikes I rode. Buts what is more important to me is about the steering geometry and for highway speeds and range. I 'm sticking with this RSTD for a couple of years. This bike has so many positive's that I would really like to hang on to it and possibly have both bikes. For passengers the RSTD is fantastic too. Couldnt say the same for the FJR.