Turning left on a red when the light won't change.

[juggler]

This has happened to most of us. It happened last night again. I sat in a left turn lane for two full cycles of the lights and I never got the green arrow. So after the second time of not getting the green arrow I waited until it was safe to proceed and went through on the red. Sure as heck some cop was watching and pulled me over.

He gets out and says "Do you know why I stopped ya?". I said I do know, but I did wait for two cycles of the lights and since they never gave me the green I waited until it was safe to proceed through the intersection as required by MN state law. His response was that MN does not have a law that allows that, but since he also rides we knows why I went through the light and didn't write me a ticket. He did run my name and plates to make sure I was a nice guy.

So when we got home my wonderful wife had to look up the law since I was sure that two years ago MN added a provision for this.

Here is what she found.

----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.dps.state.mn.us/mmsc/latest/MMSCHomeSecondary.asp?cid=5&mid=153

Sec. 42. Minnesota Statutes 2000, section 169.06, is amended by adding a subdivision to read: Subd. 9. [AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE RELATING TO UNCHANGING TRAFFIC CONTROL SIGNAL.]
(a) A person operating a motorcycle who violates subdivision 4 by entering or crossing an intersection controlled by a traffic-control signal against a red light has an affirmative defense to that charge if the person establishes all of the following conditions:
(1) the motorcycle has been brought to a complete stop;
(2) the traffic-control signal continues to show a red light for an unreasonable time;
(3) the traffic-control signal is apparently malfunctioning or, if programmed or engineered to change to a green light only after detecting the approach of a motor vehicle, the signal has apparently failed to detect the arrival of the motorcycle; and
(4) no motor vehicle or person is approaching on the street or highway to be crossed or entered or is so far away from the intersection that it does not constitute an immediate hazard.
(b) The affirmative defense in this subdivision applies only to a violation for entering or crossing an intersection controlled by a traffic-control signal against a red light and does not provide a defense to any other civil or criminal action.

-----------------------------------------------

So, they didn't make it truly legal, but they did write into law that it is excusable under the proper conditions.

What is the law on this in your state?

[BuddyRich]

I believe there is also a federal law that states a person may proceed thru a traffic signal when it is safe to do so if the light malfunctions. Not detecting a bike is a malfunction. Last time I checked feds have more power than the state. Especially when it comes to signals. And you did let it go thru all its cycles twice. Same thing happend to me and a motor unit followed me into a parking and talked to me for a second. Suggested I should go ahead and go straight up to the next intersetion and make a u turn , But did not give me a ticket either. AND they still have not fixed that light after 3 years.

[Black Ice]

This is interesting because I've done this a few times too after waiting through 2 or more lights. Haven't been pulled over though. Being that we travel on the bike alot in many states, I guess the best thing to do rather than learn all the state laws is to go straight through and then turn around and do a right turn? Really don't want to run afowl of the local law enforcement far away from home.

[Eck]

[quote=juggler;22502]
Here is what she found.

----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.dps.state.mn.us/mmsc/latest/MMSCHomeSecondary.asp?cid=5&mid=153


I turned left during a red light this morning and I have to do this every morning...
The light just doesnt work when on my bike..

If I were you, I would print this out and keep it on the bike at all times.......it may come in handy some day soon...

I am, even though it doesnt pertain to Alabama Law...

[Tartan Terror]

I always wondered this. There is one light in perticular the it happens at. Is this indeed Federal law or does it pertain to NY state also. Im just waiting to get pulled over for just this thing!

[stardbog]

There is on market bunch of Green light triggers beetwen $12 - 25

one of them is:
http://www.cruisercustomizing.com/detail.cfm?model_ID=0&Category_ID=53&manufacturer_ID=262&product_ID=1707&sblid_name=Green_Light_Stuff_Green_Light_Trigger

[Condor]

I picked up something similar at the local BMW dealership....hey it's OK to look.... The thing used a zip-tie and the installation instructions said to put it on the lowest bart of the frame. I stuck mine on my centerstand and so far haven't had to wait yet. On the way over to the dealer I ran into 2 lights that didn't want to cooperate.

[ADC]

I just looked up the law in NC. and it does not allow motorcycles to turn on a red that will not cycle to green.I guess you just sit there and hope someone pulls up behind you.
Arthur

[Rich99]

I picked up something similar at the local BMW dealership....hey it's OK to look.... The thing used a zip-tie and the installation instructions said to put it on the lowest bart of the frame. I stuck mine on my centerstand and so far haven't had to wait yet. On the way over to the dealer I ran into 2 lights that didn't want to cooperate.Been there, done this a dozen times, and finally got a magnet attached to the bottom of the bike, and it seems to do the job. Every once and a while, I don't see any lines in the street, which makes me think theres no street sensor, but a motion sensor mounted on the light across the street that triggers the light to change. Sometimes, it doesn't work, and I do proceed to go against the light. You can always carry a gun, and just shoot out the light if it doesn't change, and they can't give you a ticket if someone shot the light out, lol...........unless they caught you doing it, lol.:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

[Gary N.]

[quote=Black Ice;22519] I guess the best thing to do rather than learn all the state laws is to go straight through and then turn around and do a right turn? quote]

That's what we who live near the greater Detroit area call a "Michigan Left" Another method used in the Detroit area is to turn right drive 1/2 a block and make a U turn through the boulevard.

[GeorgeS]

This happened to a friend of mine on Sunday morning. No Traffic.

After 3 rounds he ran the light, the cop was hideing in a parking lot and chased him down and gave him a ticket. !!

?????????????/

[BuddyRich]

Found this doing a search. Don't think I'm gonna wait 15 minutes for a light to change. And the first one is kinda funny. On second thought about half of it is funny

How To Trip a Traffic Light With a Motorcycle



From Walter Kern (http://motorcycles.about.com/mbiopage.htm),
Your Guide to Motorcycles (http://motorcycles.about.com/).
FREE Newsletter. Sign Up Now! (http://motorcycles.about.com/gi/pages/mmail.htm)
Every motorcyclist has pulled up to a red traffic light and waited to get the bike to trip a sensor to activate a left-turn or green traffic light. Often they just do not trip. Here are some things to try.
Difficulty: Average
Time Required: varies
Here's How:

Get off your bike and push the "walk" button if it is safe.
Sometimes you may just have to look both ways and run the light. In some places it's OK to "proceed with caution" after 15 minutes, in some places after 2 cycles. You need to know what the law is in your area.
If you fail to trigger the switch, wait at least one more cycle and then proceed when it is safe.
Sometimes it helps to kill the engine and restart it just to get the magnetic fields going over the tripping device. Put yourself right over the detector in the pavement. Give the bike a couple of good revs.zSB(3,3)
Turn right and then do a "U" turn when you can.
Threaten legal action. Start by calling the street department and complaining. Every week re-check the light. If you get no action, send them a nice professional letter threatening them with a lawsuit.
As you approach the intersection, there are lines cut into the pavement where the sensor was put in. The sensor pad is octagonal or square. Put the most metal over the intersection of two sides.
Another trick is to put out your kickstand. If you can get the kickstand out, there is more of a metal area to detect. Don't forget to retract your kickstand when the light finally changes.
Rig your bike with an electro-magnet under the frame. This is wired into the brake lamp circuit and induces enough of a field to trip most lights.
Consider the purchase of a device that will trip the light for you. Two such products are the Green Light Trigger and the Red Light Changer.
A new trend is the introduction of special motorcycle boxes that show you where to stop your bike to trip the light. The front-most "box" has additional diagonal lines, with a bike icon painted in the box.
Roll forwards and back in an effort to trip the sensors.
If you are waiting for a left-turn signal light to change, you can always proceed through the intersection on green and make three successive right-hand turns. This only works with regular city blocks.
Some states have sensors in the lights that can detect flashing lights of police cars and ambulances, and will quickly change the light. You might try flashing your lights to see if that will trip it.

[Flyinfool]

OK, this is an old thread.
But then I am old to, but new to riding.

I have looked up the Wisconsin law on this and you must wait 45 seconds before proceeding thru the red light.

I just bought a powerful magnet (http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=BY0X06-N52) to stick on the bottom of the bike to help trip the lights.
There is one light in particular that is vehicle triggered to cross a major highway. You can easily wait 10-15 minutes to catch a break in traffic to get through, or make a right and go a half mile to a spot to turn around.
I hope that this will trigger that light.

This magnet is rated with 182 lbs of pull so I do not think I will even need a cable tie to hold it on the bike like the commercial ones do.
As a side benefit, maybe it will pick up that next nail that is destined for my back tire.
It was cheap enough to be worth a try.

I'll post back how or if it works.

[50btripn]

If I am not mistaken, I believe in Alabama, there is a bill in Legislation as we speak (or type!!) to change or ammend the current law to allow for motorcyclists to proceed through a red light. But knowing the Alabama Legislature, they will add so much rhetoric and B.S., that when all is said and done and the dust settles...it will STILL be illegal for motorcyclists to proceed on red.

[Snaggletooth]

We have so many to the intersections here on the newer highways with the sensors that it will make ya gring your teeth. They simply do not pick up on a bike. Even these overgrown scoots we ride. The only thing that I have found that will actually trip one in the line up on the roadbed sensor and drop the side stand and lean on it. The light will change in the next cycle. A riding buddy had the Green light trigger on his and it does nothing.

[SilvrT]

Danged teknology!... it's supposed to make things better!

[Gregory Gill]

I would have no problem stating my case to a judge. Let the police officer/deputy do whatever he feels he has to.:cop:

[bryan52577]

Most intersection have those diamond shaped cuts in the road way. Those are the magnetic trips for the lights. I wear steel toed cowboy boots 90% of the time when I ride. I stop and if light does not change I put my toe over the diamond cut in the road and with in 15 seconds it trips the light. Has worked 99% of the time so far!

Bryan

[Dano]

I always pull my scoot up to the light over the left hand rear and front corner of the sensor. Also try to "run the line" along that side. These sensors do not send out a constant signal, they actually sweep each detector in pulses, so if you miss the sweep, you could be sitting! Works 95% of the time.

Dan

[Venturous]

One thing that has been sugested to bicyclists is to lay your bike down on the road near the strips to trip the light. I guess we could do that with our Ventures. Then when enough people stop to help you get the bike picked back up, maybe it will trip the light.:happy34:
RandyA

[ScottnstephsVenture]

One thing that has been sugested to bicyclists is to lay your bike down on the road near the strips to trip the light. I guess we could do that with our Ventures. Then when enough people stop to help you get the bike picked back up, maybe it will trip the light.:happy34:
RandyA

That is too funny......

[Flyinfool]

ROFLMAO

The intersection that is giving me problems has new asphalt and there is no way to guess at exactly where the sensor wire is hidden.
I have tried moving my bike all over to see if I could find "the spot".

[Monty]

This is what Tennessee Law states...

(b) Notwithstanding any provision of law to the contrary, the driver of a motorcycle approaching an intersection that is controlled by a traffic-control signal utilizing a vehicle detection device that is inoperative due to the size of the motorcycle shall come to a full and complete stop at the intersection and, after exercising due care as provided by law, may proceed with due caution when it is safe to do so. It is not a defense to a violation of § 55-8-109 that the driver of a motorcycle proceeded under the belief that a traffic-control signal utilized a vehicle detection device or was inoperative due to the size of the motorcycle when such signal did not utilize a vehicle detection device or that any such device was not in fact inoperative due to the size of the motorcycle.

[Saddletramp]

I have found that a weaving manuever as you enter the turn lane in the proximety of the grids will often work.

[AKRefugee]

Here are some excerpts from the article

The full story is here (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-06-10-red-light-laws_N.htm)

By Ron Barnett (http://www.usatoday.com/community/tags/reporter.aspx?id=1131), USA TODAY


Sometimes, red means go.


Motorcyclists in a growing number of states are being allowed to go through red lights when sensors aren't able to detect they are there.


In May, South Carolina became the seventh state to give motorcyclists license to proceed with caution after stopping when the device that causes the light to change from red to green doesn't activate, according to Imre Szauter, government affairs manager for the American Motorcyclist Association.



North Carolina passed a similar law in 2007. Wisconsin (2006), Idaho (2006) Arkansas (2005), Tennessee (2003) and Minnesota (2002), all have passed laws the past six years, Szauter said. Bills have been introduced for the same purpose in Georgia, Missouri and Oklahoma, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures and the legislative websites for those states.


The Federal Highway Administration says such laws raise safety concerns, but biker groups that have lobbied for the change say they are common sense.



Doug Hecox, a spokesman for the Federal Highway Administration, said the states should try to find a technical solution to the problem."We don't necessarily think that empowering motorists to make up their own rules of the road is the safest or best approach," he said.
The traffic lights in question are controlled by devices buried under the road that operate similar to metal detectors, according to Hecox. Their sensitivity can be set to detect motorcycles, but the proper balance is difficult to adjust, he said.


California has chosen a technological solution. A law adopted last year requires that when new traffic-activated signals are installed, they be capable of detecting motorcycles and bicycles.

[dray]

[quote=Black Ice;22519] I guess the best thing to do rather than learn all the state laws is to go straight through and then turn around and do a right turn? quote]

That's what we who live near the greater Detroit area call a "Michigan Left" Another method used in the Detroit area is to turn right drive 1/2 a block and make a U turn through the boulevard.

LOL see your learning now aint ya Gary its not hard is it ya just need to go up around and back:thumbsup2:

[DragonRider]

I have had this happen to me since I leave for work at 5:30 in the morning, there is one light I turn at that doesnt detect my presence. What I do and I cant remember where I read this is, I stop over the location of the sensor, I kill the engine and then restart it, what this does is set up an electro-magnetic field and that is sensed by the sensor, and the light changes for me on the next cycle.......works everytime I do it, so as soon as I am stopped at this light I kill the engine and restart it...........no more waiting for the light or sitting thru several cycles..


There is on market bunch of Green light triggers beetwen $12 - 25

one of them is:
http://www.cruisercustomizing.com/detail.cfm?model_ID=0&Category_ID=53&manufacturer_ID=262&product_ID=1707&sblid_name=Green_Light_Stuff_Green_Light_Trigger

[BEER30]

Before NC passed the law to make turns on red , I did get one of them dang light trippers . It didn't work so well either .
Well what I did find to work most of the time was to shut off the motor as I sat over the sensor strips . Then start back up the motor . The electro-magnetic energy (I think that's what they call it ) from the starter motor tripped the sensor . It never happened when I was pulling the BEERCART .

BEER30

[RandyR]

Part 2 of Article 13 of Chapter 6 of Title 40 of the Official Code of Georgia Annotated, relating to motorcycles, is amended by adding a new Code Section 40-6-312.1 to read as follows:
"40-6-312.1.
Notwithstanding any other provision of law to the contrary, the driver of a motorcycle approaching an intersection controlled by a traffic-control signal utilizing a vehicle detection device that is inoperative due to the size of the motorcycle shall come to a full and complete stop at the intersection and, after waiting for a reasonable period of time for such traffic-control signal to detect such motorcycle, may proceed with due caution when it is safe to do so."


SECTION 2.
All laws and parts of laws in conflict with this Act are repealed. See: http://www.legis.state.ga.us/legis/2005_06/fulltext/hb141.htm





South Carolina has joined six other states
that let motorcyclists, mo-ped drivers and bicyclists run red
lights that don't change within a couple minutes of their stopping.
Gov. Mark Sanford signed the bill into law

[Beau-Kat]

It is true that you can now proceed through a "stuck" redlight in SC. However, you must wait a full two minutes without the light changing before you must survey the area and safely proceed through the intersection.

This new law has been a blessing to me, but I'm still waiting to get pulled by the officer who doesn't know about the law yet. Hopefully, if I do get pulled over, the discussion will be civil and cordial.

[painterman67]

first of all do they work? A second are they safe for the bike?

I was looking in Lowes today and saw a huge magnet that roofers use to pick up nails on the jobsite. Was wandering what the side effects would be. I'm not a mechanic so I'll put it up to the group for consideration.

Thanks for any info as I had to sit through a red light today four cycles before a cage pulled up behind me and set it of. I tried shutting the bike down, putting down the kickstand and rolling back over the trip wire several times. This is agrevating sometimes.


David :confused::confused07::confused07::starz:

[Bob Myers]

first of all do they work? A second are they safe for the bike?

I was looking in Lowes today and saw a huge magnet that roofers use to pick up nails on the jobsite. Was wandering what the side effects would be. I'm not a mechanic so I'll put it up to the group for consideration.
David :confused::confused07::confused07::starz:
No flat rear tires if you ride slow!

[DragonRider]

Hmmmmm seems I heard the same thing somewhere...........:think:.:think:


http://www.venturerider.org/forum/image.php?u=79&dateline=1205524280 (http://www.venturerider.org/forum/member.php?u=79) DragonRider (http://www.venturerider.org/forum/member.php?u=79) http://www.venturerider.org/forum/images/statusicon/user_online.gif
Member
http://www.venturerider.org/forum/images/misc/photo.png
http://www.venturerider.org/forum/images/medals/medal-blue.gif (http://www.venturerider.org/forum/member.php?u=79&tab=myawards#aw_issue145) http://www.venturerider.org/forum/images/medals/medal-blue.gif (http://www.venturerider.org/forum/member.php?u=79&tab=myawards#aw_issue65) http://www.venturerider.org/forum/images/medals/medal-blue.gif (http://www.venturerider.org/forum/member.php?u=79&tab=myawards#aw_issue1)

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Newnan
http://www.venturerider.org/forum/images/misc/flags/United%20States.gif
http://www.venturerider.org/forum/images/misc/flags/states/GA.gif

View Photos By: DragonRider (http://www.venturerider.org/forum/vbpicgallery.php?do=hall&u=79)




http://www.venturerider.org/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif Another solution..............
I have had this happen to me since I leave for work at 5:30 in the morning, there is one light I turn at that doesnt detect my presence. What I do and I cant remember where I read this is, I stop over the location of the sensor, I kill the engine and then restart it, what this does is set up an electro-magnetic field and that is sensed by the sensor, and the light changes for me on the next cycle.......works everytime I do it, so as soon as I am stopped at this light I kill the engine and restart it...........no more waiting for the light or sitting thru several cycles..







Before NC passed the law to make turns on red , I did get one of them dang light trippers . It didn't work so well either .
Well what I did find to work most of the time was to shut off the motor as I sat over the sensor strips . Then start back up the motor . The electro-magnetic energy (I think that's what they call it ) from the starter motor tripped the sensor . It never happened when I was pulling the BEERCART .

BEER30

[Flyinfool]

first of all do they work? A second are they safe for the bike?


That is really the bottom line for me too.
I really do not want to put the extra wear and tear of restarting the bike at every red light on lightly traveled roads.
I have had no luck with positioning of the bike with side stand up or down and trying to find the wire in the road.
There are a lot of intersections that have been repaved so you have no idea exactly where the wire is, and the new asphalt moves you another 2 or 3 inches farther away from the sensor wire.

I have received a very powerful magnet that I will be trying out as soon as weather permits. This magnet will pull the picture on a computer monitor or TV from more than 2 feet away. It is rated at 182 pounds of pull. It has warnings that it should not be handled by people with implanted pace makers or defibrillators.

My concerns were about the effects of the magnetic field on the systems of the bike. I will keep it as far away from the stator and starter as I can. I plan to put it on the bottom of the frame or center stand as far back as I can get it.
Does anyone know if there are any sensors back in that area that may be affected by a strong magnetic field???

Does anyone have any idea if this will/should be more effective with the north pole up, down or sideways????

I hope to be able to report back soon that the weather has gotten better and whether this works or not.

[Ivan]

You all need a tin foil hat. It trips the sensors and hides your thoughts from aliens and democrats. You did know those are thought detectors in the pavement didnt you? Notice how the lights are always slower when you are in a hurry? Its true, I never make this sort of thing up!

For the motion sensors (actually high tech government x-ray vision cams, so they can see your wife nekkid) you can use a laser pointer to trip them. Just point the red dot at it and the signal will change. Sometimes it turns them all green at once, but something is better than nothing right? You just have to be faster than everyone else so as to not get hit.

If neither of these work, an EMP generator of about 9 gigawatts will just fry every thing electronic within a half mile of your bike.

(I am not insane, just have a terrible sense of humor.....)

[craigatcsi]

The Company I work for on occasion sells / installs the wire loops & Gate arms for parking lots. While browsing their catalog a couple of weeks ago, I noticed MANY references to the Loops are not designed to be used with Pedestrians & Motorcycles.

Craig

[Beau-Kat]

I was looking in Lowes today and saw a huge magnet that roofers use to pick up nails on the jobsite. Was wandering what the side effects would be. I'm not a mechanic so I'll put it up to the group for consideration.

Maybe, if you attach that big magnet to the underside of your trailer hitch, which in most cases (sic) is far away from your engine.

I have a magnet like that. I may attach it below my hitch and try it out at a few sticking lights around here.

Will let y'all know what it does.

[Cerviperus]

I've tried looking into the law in Illinois a few times, and always come up empty handed. I've always done the "wait a couple cycles, and go when clear" and have yet to be stopped. However, I'm sure it's only a matter of time, and then it will just depend on what mood the officer is in.

Also, as far as magnets triggering light sensors, there's a pretty good, albeit a little outdated, discussion about that subject on Snopes.

http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=16531

[Flyinfool]

Well I finally got to try out my magnet at the intersection that was giving me the worst problem.

All of the times in the past when I wanted to get thru that intersection there was never a cager to be found going my way.

So as Murphy would have it, My first 6 attempts to ride my magnet thru the light, a cager pulled up across the intersection at the same time so I could not tell if It was the cage or me that tripped the light. After many rides around the block I finally managed to get there all alone.
IT WORKED!!!!!
Just like magic the light and left turn arrow tuned green when I pulled up. 5 times in a row.
So I took the magnet back off the bike and tried it again to be sure that they did not just adjust it. No magnet, no green.
I then parked the bike and put the magnet in my sock at 4 inches off the ground and walked up to the light and HA!! I got an immediate green. now granted I do have good iron content in my blood but I don't think it is that high.

I now have the magnet semi permanently mounted to the center stand just above the left pad and all of the traffic lights are behaving.

Me Likey

[Venturous]

I then parked the bike and put the magnet in my sock at 4 inches off the ground and walked up to the light and HA!! I got an immediate green. now granted I do have good iron content in my blood but I don't think it is that high.


You guys amaze me. Some of the stuff you come up with. I wonder if the magnetic foot pads would make any difference? I suspect not as they are probably pretty weak. I do have some pretty strong magnets at home and I may have to try this.
RandyA

[timgray]

Free super strong magnets can be found inside any old computer hard drive. Typical 2 of them that are dangerous to get near each other without mounting.

Rip one open, harvest the magnets, stick it to the bike underside.
Hobby lobby also sells some "super strong" magnets as well.

[Flyinfool]

Here is the magnet that I used. It dos work for me.

There are no ill effects to the bike that I have noticed yet.

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=BY0X06-N52

[craigatcsi]

Free super strong magnets can be found inside any old computer hard drive. Typical 2 of them that are dangerous to get near each other without mounting.

Rip one open, harvest the magnets, stick it to the bike underside.
Hobby lobby also sells some "super strong" magnets as well.

This is what I did.

I put both under the engine. They look kinda funny and gather lots of road metal, but I am not convinced they do any good.

craigr

[Flyinfool]

There are rare earth magnets in a hard drive, but they are really tiny, compared to what I used, and may very well not be enough to make a difference. I have not tried that one so I can't say for sure.

[StarQ]

There's a part of the traffic laws concerning lights that don't change. It states that if a traffic light doesn't change within a reasonable amount of time you can consider the light defective. Defective traffic lights are treated as if they were stop signs.

StarQ