My Venture to “The Darkside” & Return

[OB-1]

I was seduced to the "Darkside" with the promise of increased tire life, better rear wheel traction, reduced costs, and good handling. Sounds too good to be true, and for me it was too good to be true.

I bought a BF Goodrich 155/80R15 car tire for my 06 Midnight RSV. The tire cost $84.76 shipped to my door. My local motorcycle dealer politely declined my invitation to mount my new car tire. They said they were aware of people using car tires on motorcycles; however, in today’s litigious society, they didn’t think any liability waiver signed by a customer for such work would hold up in court. So, a friend and I mounted and balanced the car tire, easy job, and no problems. The maximum inflation pressure imprinted on the tire is 35 psi, but I inflated it to 40 psi because I believe that another "Darksider" is using that pressure in the identical tire.

Now for the test. A friend and I took an approximately 350-mile ride through the beautiful Black Hills of NE Wyoming & South Dakota to include Spearfish Canyon, Mt Rushmore, and the Iron Mountain Road. Great ride, gorgeous scenery, and road conditions that varied from gravel to Interstate and every possible road surface except ice, snow and mud. Fortunately, we missed the hail storm that deposited several inches of hail on Hill City.

From the beginning, the bike felt a bit squirrelly. On straight roads the bike had what can best be described as a slight wobble; like you get when going through a high speed sweeping corner with worn shocks. This "wobble" wasn’t bad, but it was always there except when under throttle. Reducing the tire pressure to 35 psi almost, but not quite, got rid of wobble. Reducing the pressure to 30 PSI increased the wobble.

Turns: Low speed turns and parking lot calisthenics, (lock-to-lock figure 8's), were as easy as with motorcycle tires. Low speed curves, (under 40mph), under throttle were precise; however, the handling was nowhere near as forgiving as with a motorcycle tire.

We hit Spearfish Canyon with approximately 110 miles on the car tire. Pushing the bike hard into several curves caused the rear tire to kick out before anything could drag. In fact I did not drag anything through the canyon. I have ridden this road many times, and the car tire did not corner as well as a motorcycle tire. The bike cornered fine if I stayed at or near the posted speed limit, except for the ever present wobble. We ran the canyon in both directions because road construction closed the road near the top of the canyon.

High speed sweeping curves accentuated the wobble and at times were more than I cared to deal with. I only came close to losing control once and that was in Spearfish at a whopping 20mph. Road construction crews were removing asphalt with a roto-mill machine and the resulting grooves combined with the wobble were enough to have the front and rear of the bike going in different directions at the same time. It wasn’t fun.

Despite, or in spite, of the ever present wobble, the car tire provided excellent rear wheel braking. It took quite a bit of pedal pressure to lock the rear wheel and brake induced skids were very controllable. I believe there would be fewer motorcycle accidents if motorcycle tires could provide this level of rear wheel braking traction. The car tire also excelled at wet traction and gravel roads.

In conclusion, my experience doesn’t match what I’ve read from others who have gone to the "Darkside." Why? I really don’t know. Maybe they’re more skillful riders than I, or maybe I ride harder and faster then they do on their car tires. I believe that other car tires will perform differently, but only a couple of companies manufacture car tires that can fit the RSV. My $84.76 experiment with the "Darkside" is over. I’ve ordered a Michelin Commander to replace my car tire. I’ll keep the car tire around to use as an emergency spare, but I doubt if it will ever be on the rear of my bike again.

[wizard]

I am sorry you were seduced to the darkside by us and were not happy with the performance of the tire. It's not for everybody. Have you thought of selling the tire? There might be someone here looking to try one out, and it would be nice to have a opportunity to try one without having the expense of a new tire.

[RedRider]

Thanks for the complete report. I've never had any desire to put a car tire on, but have been curious about the performance.

RR

[gunboat]

hi ob-1
just read your report on your c/t experiance. i have rode the 3 sisters here in the hill country of texas( fm337,336 & 335). i was happy with the way the c/t performed
while ridening them. you tride it and it didn't work for you. thats ok, as i have said its not for everyone.
thanks for the honest report on your experiance on your c/t. i now have 5,000
miles on mine. fixing to ride up to the 08 int. rally and pulling a trailer,will report how i feel on the first leg of my trip when i get to loudon,tenn.

best reguards
don c.

[Iowawegian]

Just got back ourselves from the same trip. We had to have been meeting each other on the road as Spearfish Canyon was closed for 3 days and we did the same as you. Running it and turning around going back the same way!

[OB-1]

I have replaced the car tire with Michelin Commander and the change in handling over the car tire is nothing short of amazing. No wobble or wave; the bike is once again rock steady and can corner without the rear kicking out when pushing hard into a curve.

In Conclusion; can you run a car tire on an RSV? Yes, but only if you want to give up the fine handling qualities our bikes have with any quality motorcycle tire.

[MAINEAC]

You rode 350 miles on a wobbly tire??? OK.... Well sounds like you might have had a balancing issue or maybe the bead wasn't seated 100%... How did you and your friend balance the wheel? How much air pressure did it take to seat the bead? Did you take pictures of the tire on your bike? Inquiring minds want to know

[OB-1]

You rode 350 miles on a wobbly tire??? OK.... Well sounds like you might have had a balancing issue or maybe the bead wasn't seated 100%... How did you and your friend balance the wheel? How much air pressure did it take to seat the bead? Did you take pictures of the tire on your bike? Inquiring minds want to know


We static balanced the tire and I did the same for the Michelin Commander that is now on the bike.

Yes, the bead was seated. I believe the air pressure at the time of bead seating was approximately 50-60 psi. This wasn’t the first tire I’ve changed...

I looked for things that I might have screwed up and for things that might be wrong with the bike that the car tire might have accentuated or brought to light. Nothing wrong that I can find, and the change in handling produced by going back to a motorcycle tire seems to provide additional evidence of no mechanical problems.

No, I didn’t take pictures of the tire on my bike.

I read everything I could find concerning the Darkside prior to making my decision to go to a car tire. Nowhere did I read any first hand accounts of bad handling or instability.


Let’s remember something here; I thought that going to a car tire would be a good thing. I expected different handling characteristics, but I didn’t expect the bike to be unstable and unstable it was. My definition of unstable is the constant wobble or wave. My friend, riding behind me, easily noticed my bike doing a dance, as he called it. Also, I was not able to accurately predict when the rear end would kick out when pushing the bike into a curve. This point seemed to very dependant on many different factors. I assume that with enough riding I could have learned to predict the rear kick out, but the lack of stability was enough to send me back to a motorcycle tire.

I do not normally ride my bike to it’s limits; however, I can and I am not willing to sacrifice that safety margin for a less expensive and possibly longer lasting tire.

[autopilot]

Not trying to stir the pot....seriously...but can you run a radial on the rear and a standard non-radial m/c tire on the front? Maybe a question of ignorance on my part, but I was always under the impression that was a no-no car tire or not! Would that not in itself generate squirrelly handling?

[flb_78]

Not trying to stir the pot....seriously...but can you run a radial on the rear and a standard non-radial m/c tire on the front? Maybe a question of ignorance on my part, but I was always under the impression that was a no-no car tire or not! Would that not in itself generate squirrelly handling?

Yamaha does it on the Raider. Custom bike builders do it.

[wizard]

"Also, I was not able to accurately predict when the rear end would kick out when pushing the bike into a curve"

I don't understand what you mean. Are you impling that the rear tire slides out from under you in a lowside skid?

[flb_78]

It took me 1000 miles to break in my car tire. After that, I've noticed no difference except improved handling in adverse conditions.

[Jerry W]

[quote=OB-1;218626]I was seduced to the "Darkside" with the promise of increased tire life, better rear wheel traction, reduced costs, and good handling. Sounds too good to be true, and for me it was too good to be true.


I feel kinda' left out, I read all the posts by the guys who are riding CT's on their bikes and not one time was I seduced or promised anything. All I got was an account of their experiences on how the tire worked for them and their riding style. flb, you been seducing people?

[wizard]

OB-1,
What are you going to do with the tire? Like I mentioned earlier, you might want to offer it for sale as a used tire to someone interested in the darkside, but not financially in a position to experiment with a new tire.

[flb_78]

flb, you been seducing people?

I'm damn sexy...

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc18/WikkedKlownLove/fat-bastard.jpg

[wizard]

Hey flb_78, I put about 300 miles on my tire before it was broke in. But those are 2up miles. I'm running 35# psi in my TA Radial with both Robin and I, with full saddle bags. What do you run 1up?

[OB-1]

"Also, I was not able to accurately predict when the rear end would kick out when pushing the bike into a curve"

I don't understand what you mean. Are you impling that the rear tire slides out from under you in a lowside skid?

The rear tire would slide out unpredictably when I tried to go through sharp curves at speed. This occurred before dragging the floor board or anything else. Like I said before, I assume that with enough riding I could have learned to predict the rear kick out, but the lack of stability was enough to send me back to a motorcycle tire.

[OB-1]

Not trying to stir the pot....seriously...but can you run a radial on the rear and a standard non-radial m/c tire on the front? Maybe a question of ignorance on my part, but I was always under the impression that was a no-no car tire or not! Would that not in itself generate squirrelly handling?


I think the mismatch of bias ply front and radial rear may be part of the problem. I am certainly interested in reading anyone’s experience with a motorcycle radial front tire and car tire radial rear tire.

[wizard]

HOLLY COW!!! I haven't had a bike do that in years, I can't even imagine doing it with a bike as heavy as a Venture! I raced some flat track back in the 70's, but that was with modified Triumphs. Even with my newer Triumphs, in the twisties, I don't spin my tire. Of course, my Triumph today weighs more and dosen't have the horsepower or torque of my older ones. You gotta be one aggressive rider! I would bet you could give Yellow Wolf a run for it on the Dragon.

[OB-1]

HOLLY COW!!! I haven't had a bike do that in years, I can't even imagine doing it with a bike as heavy as a Venture! I raced some flat track back in the 70's, but that was with modified Triumphs. Even with my newer Triumphs, in the twisties, I don't spin my tire. Of course, my Triumph today weighs more and dosen't have the horsepower or torque of my older ones. You gotta be one aggressive rider! I would bet you could give Yellow Wolf a run for it on the Dragon.

The rear didn’t kick out anywhere near as much a flat tracker, but it did kick or slide out several inches to maybe as much as a foot. My friend was behind me on his bike and he thought I was going to lose it a couple of times. I was really trying to see what the cornering limitations were while riding through Spearfish Canyon, a road I’m familiar with. I can make much better time through the curves with a motorcycle tire without scraping anything.

With the car tire, I found that I needed to slow down much more before entering the curve and then give the bike moderate throttle throughout the curve. Getting aggressive with the throttle or entering the curve too fast caused the rear tire to break traction and kick out. This was usually accompanied by the wobble or wave. The wobble is what really turned me off to the car tire.

[Gearhead]

Getting aggressive with the throttle or entering the curve too fast caused the rear tire to break traction and kick out.

I haven't run a CT and am not criticizing, just thinking, this makes sense. As you lean into the corner and roll up on to the edge of the CT tread you go from a big contact patch to a small one.

Back in the day before big custom MC tires were available, the ol' Boss Hoss V8 motorcycle ran a CT on the back, maybe a 215 width. I spoke with a dealer and he said they ran low pressure, like maybe 24 psi. The reason was this. Even though the BH is a big cow of a bike, it's still only 1200 lb. Let's say the rear tire with rider is carrying 800 lb. That 215 CT is probably rated to carry 1500 lb at 35 psi. One of the big things that proper tire inflation depends on is load. As you get away from the max load, you can and usually should decrease the pressure in the tire. If you have a 3/4T or 1 ton truck with load range E tires, you learn that you don't have to run around all the time with the max 80psi in them - it just gives a stiffer ride and wears out the middle of the tread. So, on the Boss Hoss, the reduced pressure, sufficient to carry the load, would allow the tire to flex and deform more in the corners, so it didn't roll up hard on the edge. Have you guys with CTs tried low pressures?

Jeremy

[wizard]

I've run low pressure on the bias ply, but this is the 1st radial tire I have tried on a bike. I ride 2up on the Venture, so the lowest I've had the pressure is 32 #. I'm more comfortable with 35 # as the load rating is above 1000 lbs, and we are not what you would call small. Even at 35 # Robin says the ride is much smoother than with the motorcycle tire.

[OB-1]

I expected to drag something before I ran out of tire...:doh: The tire pressure was 40psi during the canyon run... I assume that it would have cornered better at 35psi, which I went to later in the day. This pressure also reduced the wobble or wave, but didn’t eliminate it. Dropping to 30psi made things worse so I went back to 35psi.

My wife also said the ride was smoother with the car tire... :cool10: If only it were stable...:no-no-no:

[SaltyDawg]

As far as running a biased ply and radial on the same bike, well I have talked several bike mechanics and they see no problem with it. They said it was just a wives tale.

On leaving the Dark Side, well all I can say is:


Welcome Back!!!

[PB&J]

It took me 1000 miles to break in my car tire. After that, I've noticed no difference except improved handling in adverse conditions.


A 1000 miles to break in the tire/ or become accustomed to its handling. It seems a long time to break in a tire? could it be that if you were riding it hard you were simplying learning about and adjusting to the tire?

[pegscraper]

I submit that you didn't run the tire long enough to properly scrub it in. Until the tire gets scrubbed in, you have to ride it easier. No revelation here. And a CT may well take longer to scrub in than a MT too, especially the corners. Three hundred and fifty miles is not enough to determine anything. I've had MTs kick out on me like that also when I got too aggressive in the curves. Go put more like 500 to 1000 miles on it and then see what you think.

[OB-1]

I submit that you didn't run the tire long enough to properly scrub it in. Until the tire gets scrubbed in, you have to ride it easier. No revelation here. And a CT may well take longer to scrub in than a MT too, especially the corners. Three hundred and fifty miles is not enough to determine anything. I've had MTs kick out on me like that also when I got too aggressive in the curves. Go put more like 500 to 1000 miles on it and then see what you think.

The kick out on the corners was not the reason for removing the car tire, the ever present wobble was the deciding factor.

[thebighop]

For the record OB...I may be the one you referred to as running 40lbs in my T/A Radial...actually I went to 45lbs, and ran it nearly 1400 miles like that..I had wobble up the ying yang, but yesterday I dropped it down to 34.5lbs and the difference is like day and night...It handles great..a brizillion times better than it did at 45lbs.
When I first installed it, I tried 35lbs and thought I was gonna die in a fiery crash...LOL, so I took it up to where I thought it felt pretty good. I got busy with caring for my wife and didn't have time to play with it, that's how I came to log 1400 miles for break-in....
So it may take a little longer than what you might consider adequate, it may depend on the tire, the day it was made which press it came from etc, etc, etc....
I logged the 1400 miles in pretty short order...we have had a lot of rainy days, and I have had to take the truck back and forth to the hospital quite a bit otherwise I would have had 1000 miles in about 2 weeks for riding....
I can scrape the pegs like a crotchity rocket now.

[SaltyDawg]

1,000 miles, 1,400 miles to break in a tire!!! That's insane, sorry but I'm not willing to put my life on line for 1,000 miles to get more tread wear out of a tire. Performance is obviously not a factor in mounting a CT. A half a pound of air being the difference between feeling like dieing in a fiery crash and night and day?

I mount a new rear tire about every 10 months putting 18-20,000 miles on it. I don't make a lot of money, but I can afford $130.00 every 10 months to have the peace of mind to know I have the ability to get out of a hairy situation when that cage comes into my lane. Whether I'm breaking the tire in or have 15,000 miles on it.

As I have stated in another post. I can see mounting a CT if you run mostly straight flat roads, pull a trailer A LOT, or had the bike triked/side car. I see advantages in that.

I ride to work each and every day, rain, cold, dead of summer, 100 miles round trip. So believe me when I say I would like a tire that lasts longer, but not at the cost of handling.

To each his own.:missingtooth:

[flb_78]

1,000 miles, 1,400 miles to break in a tire!!! That's insane, sorry but I'm not willing to put my life on line for 1,000 miles to get more tread wear out of a tire. Performance is obviously not a factor in mounting a CT. A half a pound of air being the difference between feeling like dieing in a fiery crash and night and day?

I mount a new rear tire about every 10 months putting 18-20,000 miles on it.


It wasn't a half pound of air, it was 10.5lbs of air. He went from 45 down to 34.5

I've never had a rear tire last 10,000 miles on any bike. I'll be lucky to get 15,000 on the CT right now. I don't know how folks are getting almost 20,000 out of a tire. They gotta be drivin' Miss Daisy or something.

:grandpa::grandma:

[thebighop]

[quote=SaltyDawg;223466]1,000 miles, 1,400 miles to break in a tire!!! That's insane, sorry but I'm not willing to put my life on line for 1,000 miles to get more tread wear out of a tire. Performance is obviously not a factor in mounting a CT. A half a pound of air being the difference between feeling like dieing in a fiery crash and night and day?


Ya read me wrong pal...
(First...I don't get the note about putting your life on the line for 1000 miles...I have see Metzlers blow apart in under 500 miles....)
I went from 45 down to 34.5...(I have a very high quality gauge reading in the tenths of lbs)
The reason I ran 1400 miles is , my wife has been in the hospital for the past 3 weeks and I haven't had time to do anything but see to her staying alive at this point...we're starting to see some improvement, so I am finally not at the hospital 18 hours out of every day, which gave me an opportunity to get on with my hunt for the 'sweet spot'...I have no doubt what so ever, if you ride in earnest at all, you'd have the tire broke in in a week, just like you would any MT...approx 500 miles, which is really about what it takes to scuff an MT real good too.
BUT!!! now that I have had a chance to try a lower LBS and get some miles on it, I am so astonished at the difference, I feel rather an idiot for my belly aching about the performance I was getting...or lacking , before the pressure change.
I am gonna guess that yer probably a lot like me, that when you don't get instant gratification, yer ready to change lanes...No Offense meant what so ever...I just know from my own experience that when I don't see results like the next guys...I call 'em jerks and ride off...and I am old school on using CT's...I ran CT's front and back on my old Harleys, and did OK...difference being, back in the 60's and 70's there were only 4 or 5 of us riding, instead of 4million or 5 million, and we didn't know any better, and didn't have any naysayers around to set us right...

[PB&J]

Well it makes sense that running the tire pressure down would accommodate it to the handling characteristics of a motorcyle. We could do all the members a big favor that want to try this to post some air pressure figures for different types of CT's used on bikes to give them an idea of where these sweet spots are instead of having to find them on their own. Maybe a sticky with some of those figures could be done if it hasn't come up already. I know this topic has been up before if members have those figures hopefully they'll post them again for all considering this mod.

[SaltyDawg]

It wasn't a half pound of air, it was 10.5lbs of air. He went from 45 down to 34.5

I've never had a rear tire last 10,000 miles on any bike. I'll be lucky to get 15,000 on the CT right now. I don't know how folks are getting almost 20,000 out of a tire. They gotta be drivin' Miss Daisy or something.

:grandpa::grandma:

Read the whole post. He started at 35psi and said he felt like he was going to die in a fiery death, 45 was better but still with the wobble and then dropping to 34.5 was like night and day. Now I'm no rocket scientist, but I can figure that if 35 was really bad and 45 was better than the 35. It's pretty easy to see that dropping from 35 where he started and ending up on 34.5 is only a half of a pound no matter how many stops along the way. The difference between a fiery death and night and day. To me a half a pound is unacceptable air expands as it gets hot so suffice it to say that what you start out the day with on pressure isn't what it's going to be going 65MPH down the interstate on a hot day. If the tire is that sensitive to pressure changes then how would you go about making sure it's perfect every time?

NASCAR crew chiefs make 1/4psi changes to change spring rate of the tire, but they use Nitrogen because it expands less than air.

I check my tire pressures every week and sometimes it has dropped as much as 3 psi.

As far as mileage on the RT, well maybe you just haven't found the right tire yet. I don't ride like a little old lady but I don't scrape the floorboards on every turn either. I run hard for the most part. I was never able to get more than 8-10,000 miles out of a rear tire until switching to the Commanders. I don't, however ride 2 up anywhere near as much as I used to. My wife has her own scoot now.

[SaltyDawg]

[quote=SaltyDawg;223466]1,000 miles, 1,400 miles to break in a tire!!! That's insane, sorry but I'm not willing to put my life on line for 1,000 miles to get more tread wear out of a tire. Performance is obviously not a factor in mounting a CT. A half a pound of air being the difference between feeling like dieing in a fiery crash and night and day?


Ya read me wrong pal...
(First...I don't get the note about putting your life on the line for 1000 miles...I have see Metzlers blow apart in under 500 miles....)
I went from 45 down to 34.5...(I have a very high quality gauge reading in the tenths of lbs)
The reason I ran 1400 miles is , my wife has been in the hospital for the past 3 weeks and I haven't had time to do anything but see to her staying alive at this point...we're starting to see some improvement, so I am finally not at the hospital 18 hours out of every day, which gave me an opportunity to get on with my hunt for the 'sweet spot'...I have no doubt what so ever, if you ride in earnest at all, you'd have the tire broke in in a week, just like you would any MT...approx 500 miles, which is really about what it takes to scuff an MT real good too.
BUT!!! now that I have had a chance to try a lower LBS and get some miles on it, I am so astonished at the difference, I feel rather an idiot for my belly aching about the performance I was getting...or lacking , before the pressure change.
I am gonna guess that yer probably a lot like me, that when you don't get instant gratification, yer ready to change lanes...No Offense meant what so ever...I just know from my own experience that when I don't see results like the next guys...I call 'em jerks and ride off...and I am old school on using CT's...I ran CT's front and back on my old Harleys, and did OK...difference being, back in the 60's and 70's there were only 4 or 5 of us riding, instead of 4million or 5 million, and we didn't know any better, and didn't have any naysayers around to set us right...

Maybe I did read you wrong I don't know. You did have a round about way of getting the tire broke in, but there are others that are telling OB-1 that he didn't give the tire enough time to break in, that 350 miles wasn't enough and that theirs didn't feel good until about 1,000 miles. Unacceptable in my book, but then again that's just me.

I have to applaud the MC shop that refused to put the CT on for OB, they obviously saw the writing on the wall.

[flb_78]

He tried it and didn't like it. Not a big deal. At least it was tried and he has experience with it. Some folks don't like Dunlops, or Avons, or Michelins, or Metzlers. He didn't like the car tire. I don't believe any of us had said "just slap it on and you'll notice no difference", on the contrary, most of us said there is a longer then expected break in time. I'm at least glad he tried it and reported on it even though it's not favorable.

[thebighop]

I haven't posted as much here as I have on another site in Delphi (Dark side) about my experiences with the CT...
But to clear it up...when you first install a CT the mold release agent will make the tire squirm a bit...much the same as an MT but since you have so much more foot print with the CT it is going to be more pronounced...thus the reason for a longer break in period. A MT has a scant foot print, as witnessed by running it thru water and looking at the trail left behind on dry pavement...now do likewise with a CT and you'll see a huge difference....
At 35lbs, I didn't feel like it was stable...but keep in mind I also put a 130/80 on the front at the same time as the CT on the back so the handling was way different to begin with regardless of what the CT was gonna do, plus I installed leveling links to raise the rear end at the same time, again changing the rake, and the handling and over all feel of the bike...so it wasn't just the tre that I had concerns about...
Not to mention I was extremely tense while testing the tire...due to my fear of dying in a fiery crash...I was so tense you couldn't have shoved a knitting needle up my ass with a sledge hammer, and that had an effect on how the bike handled...I wouldn't allow the bike to run it's course and was constantly trying to force it in to the groove...
I ran my tire up to 45lbs where I felt the side walls were a bit stiffer feeling, and because of my wife being hospitalized I didn't really have time to mess with it...it got me from point A to point B with out me dying in a fiery crash, so no big deal.
When I did get a chance to adjust the air and take it down to 34.5 (which is where I landed by chance...I was aiming at 35) the tire was well broken in and now runs like any normal MT would feel...except, I don't lose traction in tight fast curves, I have far better control in the rain, and now I won't be changing tires in mid July like I always have in the past....
But understand that I respect your opinion...I just want to be sure you understand the facts and details of my experience...
Is this for everyone...without a doubt pretty much anyone could adapt to it, but I know as well as you, a lot of folks just won't try, so no..it's not for everyone...but I found out a long time ago, riding my old Harleys, that CT's are as safe as any MT, so I have no problem using them myself...
Having had a few MT's blow apart and fail miserably at mileage...I was more than willing to 'risk my life' on a CT...No difference than wrecking on a MT, which we already know are not of the quality that their price would indicate...
If you don't wanna do it...no biggie...

[Gearhead]

"I've never had a rear tire last 10,000 miles on any bike. I'll be lucky to get 15,000 on the CT right now. I don't know how folks are getting almost 20,000 out of a tire. They gotta be drivin' Miss Daisy or something"


Have you ever run a Dunlop Elite 2 or E3? They routinely get 20k on the rear.

Jeremy

[PB&J]

I have a question, doesn't running a ct on a bike create a problem with the Insurance companies paying up on an accident? I mean you know insurance companies look for excuses to not pay. I would think that if someone went down with a car tire because of a kick out or Broken cords are found due to Ct's having to be over inflated to get the bead to set. Is that taking a gamble with the insurance? those guys check these sites you know and look for info like this stuff we post here . Has ANYONE darksider or not considered this? This is a question worth exploring and NOT a negative comment.

[flb_78]

Depends on the company. Progressive WILL cover a bike with a car tire.

[Grey Ghost]

Is that taking a gamble with the insurance?...Has ANYONE darksider or not considered this?

I've considered it many times, but not as many as I've considered the possibility of getting hit by a car or having any other kind of accident on the bike. But I still get on it.

As far as the original post in this thread, heck, I wasn't comfortable for a lot longer than 350 miles on the first motorcycle tires I was on. Maybe I can remember that better than some others since I've only been riding three years.

I'm still learning about two wheels and I hope I continue to learn as long as I ride.

As I have posted elsewhere, it did take me a little while to get used to the ct, but 90% of that was mental, since I had been told to expect to crash and burn in the first curve that I came to.

I was so scared that I rode for 1,000 miles in a straight line until I was forced to make that dreaded U turn and come back home. ;) LOL

Anyhow, now that I have approx. 2,000 miles on the tire, I really like it. I think that it is more a matter of taste and feel just like choosing the make or model of bike you ride. When my best riding buddy first put a ct on his Honda VTX 1800, I tried as hard as I possibly could to get him to change, but he wouldn't do it. I don't know why he is so stubborn and continues to ride that Honda.:ignore:

Seriously, I would never try to influence anyone to change to a car tire if they didn't want to. While I personally think that you are at least as safe on a ct as you are on a mt whether on a wet road or dry one, this is a decision everyone should make for themselves.

Whatever we ride, let's ride together safe and enjoy life.

Jeff

[Vance]

OB-1 shouldn't have to justify his results, or validate them. Some of the responses to his post made me feel like I was reading "The Inquisition".
Thanks for the report, OB. And thanks for the replys.

[MAINEAC]

OB-1 shouldn't have to justify his results, or validate them. Some of the responses to his post made me feel like I was reading "The Inquisition".
Thanks for the report, OB. And thanks for the replys.

Call it "The Inquisition" or think what you want... This is a fairly new mod that I'm going to do myself and I want to know about any potential pitfals that may occur. That's the purpose of this forum.

[Jerry W]

I do not run a CT at this time, but I have checked with my insurance company and was told that my insurance would not be affected by running a CT on the bike. My insurance is with Dairyland.

[kilowatt55]

My brother in law runs a car tire on his VTX 1300 Honda and really brags about the ride and handling. I have ridden with him and it does as good as a MC tire in the turns but it has much more traction when braking and starting. He had about 20,000 mi on it when he changed it after riding about 50 mi on a flat after the valve stem broke when he pulled the old tire it barely showed any sign of wear and was not hurt internaly by being run flat. The only thing I have noticed is a squirley feel when turning sharply at very low speeds. BTW let me know if you want to sell that tire.:missingtooth:

[GunnyButch]

I'm not considering a CT but following the threads I have a question. Is the only advantage in using a CT increased mileage? From what I've read handling is not improved or degraded and is something you get used to? Just asking, no criticism intended.

[OB-1]

I'm not considering a CT but following the threads I have a question. Is the only advantage in using a CT increased mileage? From what I've read handling is not improved or degraded and is something you get used to? Just asking, no criticism intended.

In my experience, a car tire provides increased traction in straight line riding under all road conditions. My main problem with the car tire is the instability it causes, constant weave or wobble.

Car tire on a motorcycle; I tried it and I don’t like it and wouldn’t recommend it on RSV. Your experience and opinion may differ.

[stardbog]

Hi All, as many of us are interesting to try CT on Venture, I'm Purchase one BFG CT, But reading Reports, and going shortly to Muffin's Inn Asheville rally, Decide to live CT in garage and go with Avons Venom. Reason why is break in period of CT. Somebody said take about 1-1.5 K Miles to break in. well week of lurking Round Smokies, doesn't give me enough time to break tire. I Don't wanna go to Tail of Dragon with half way break in period and Car Tire. I'll Try next time. So I'm steel on Bright side.
Just One Question to OB-1?
Did you try to rebalance tire after you decide to switch back? Looks like your tire was out of balance, And of corse your riding stile, and wrist disorder didn't match handling of CT.

[pegscraper]

The "only" advantage being increase tire mileage? That's plenty reason enough right there, that they'll last three times as long or better. MT manufacturers have a pretty good racket going for themselves.

Handling is slightly different. Neither better nor worse. Adapt to it and move on.

Traction, both wet and dry, is much better. It takes a lot more to lock up the rear wheel with a CT, but it still can be done. I got caught in the pouring rain a couple weeks ago on a somewhat winding road, at least as far as northern IN goes. Not a road to use if you're trying to make time getting anywhere. Rode for three hours in pouring down rain with no problems at all.

I didn't see where anybody said it takes as much as 1500 miles to break in a CT. I said 500 miles once, one time when I blindly repeated something someone else said. Shame on me for that. :no-no-no: My own experience is that it didn't take any longer to scuff the glaze off my CT than any other MT I've ever used.

My wife was really leery of me doing this. "CTs aren't designed to lean over, they're just not designed for motorcycles, it just can't be right." All the same stuff we always hear everywhere else. All I told her is that there would be no difference there. It would be fine. You won't even know it's there. It took only one ten mile ride as a passenger for her to say that she felt some differences. "Oh yeah, like what?" "The bike feels more stable underneath us, and the ride is softer, not so bouncy and bumpy." I nodded my head. "That's what I've heard from others who have done this, that their passengers like the softer ride better." I didn't tell her that ahead of time. In fact what I told her was that everything would be just the same, that she wouldn't be able to tell any difference at all. I wanted to see what she might say about it without any prebiasing. She came up with that all on her own. She really likes this CT stuff.

[OB-1]

...Just One Question to OB-1?
Did you try to rebalance tire after you decide to switch back? Looks like your tire was out of balance, And of corse your riding stile, and wrist disorder didn't match handling of CT.

Yes, the car tire was balanced. Like I said in my original post, the bike always had a weeve or wobble, like going through a sweeping turn with bad shocks except that you weren't in a turn and your shocks aren't bad. No hint of any handling problems with M/C tires, and I can scrape the floorboards with confidence...as long as my wife isn't on the back seat!:buttkick::rotfl:

[spear]

If there are at least 4 of you guys going to fit a car tyre to your bike, would you like to send the bike tyres you remove to me so I can fit them to my car to see how it handles?
Now - that would be an interesting ride!

[MAINEAC]

I don't think you'd get too far on my POS Avon... But if you must try send me $80.00 for shipping and you can have it..

[gunboat]

hi all
i now have just over 10,000 miles on my c/t mode. i put 4,438 miles on the c/t going to the '08 int. rally in kitchener. i also pulled my trailer that was loaded to the gunwalls with all my camping stuff. for 2,200 miles i had my 13y.o. sarah with me. i had put 34 psi in the c/t before leaving for the rally and you know i still haven't checked the air pressure in it yet.
i can say at first the c/t was different, for the first couple of hundred miles had to get use to the "new feel " when i leaned it to the turns. the bike seemed like i had to nuge it up and over the 'edge". i do not feel that difference now, it's a smooth left to right swing now, just like on a m/c tire. i've had the c/t on now since april 06,08.
i first ran the "montgomery trace" fm 149 on monday after i installed the c/t. it has some nice twistes in it, no problems swinging thru those twistes. the next set of twistes i ran was the ( three sisters fm337,fm335 and fm336 ) over in the texas hill country. o by the way the sisters are voted as one of the top 10 m/c twistes roads to ride in the state by ride texas magaizne. had a great time running the sisters.
i also removed and installed the c/t my self and i did not balance it. so far i have not had any shake / woble problems as i have read about. all i can say is it's working for me. and i am happy with my decision to go to "the dark side". sorry for the long post but just wanted to throw my 2-cents out there. i'am still thinking about trying that radial
tire for the front as maineac has suggested. when i do ya'll be the first know.
as i have stated before this mod is not for everyone, but it's working for me and i like it.
best reguards
don c.
:225:

[Bubber]

As I am reading through the posts I am wondering is there something here that has to do with location. Where your located in the country, South Vs North? Seems like there is a deep split if the CT works or doesn't work.

I'll stay on the bright side and sift through the post for a while yet.


BTW OB-1 I am sending you a e-mail.

[BurgyMon]

I was seduced to the "Darkside" with the promise of increased tire life, better rear wheel traction, reduced costs, and good handling.

Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of "darkness".

Welcome back to the light, my brother!!! Go and sin no more!!

[GeorgeS]

I have an 89, can't mount one, so this is just an observers opinion.

However I am very interested in the subject.

After reading thru this thread for the last couple of weeks, ( Unless I missed it )
I have not seen any detailed info as to Which Brands are avialable in the correct size, ( ie. how many brands make the size ? ) and then we get into the Range of different quality, tires, and Types of caseings, and how many ply's, and how thick does each manufacture build their side walls ????? etc etc etc
( If we had all this info, we could run this thread out for another 6 months )

So what am I asking here?

1. Which Specific, Brands, and models of tires have members tried. ?

2. What specific type of construction were the tires that folks are reporting on ?

3. Were they Rayon cord , Nylon cord , Belted, or Steel Belted Radial????
( how many different types are there ?? who's the tire salesman out there ?? )

The question then must be posed !!! Which of all these Different types of
" CT's " would be best to use on a motorcyle ?? Are some good, and some very bad ??? ----


:stirthepot:

[Grey Ghost]

I think all of your questions can be answered by reading the "Darkside" post. There are photos as well.

As far as I know, those of us running car tires are using two or three different makes.

The biggest difference as I see it is in the overall height of the tire. The higher the profile or aspect ratio, the more flexible the sidewall. I'm running a 165-80/15 and I am tickled to death with it.

You simply have to compare the notes and decide which you think will be best for you.

After reading the posts, if you still have questions, I will be glad to tell you my experience and what I know, though I'm no expert by any stretch.

Good luck.

Jeff

[GeorgeS]

I think all of your questions can be answered by reading the "Darkside" post. There are photos as well.

As far as I know, those of us running car tires are using two or three different makes.

The biggest difference as I see it is in the overall height of the tire. The higher the profile or aspect ratio, the more flexible the sidewall. I'm running a 165-80/15 and I am tickled to death with it.

You simply have to compare the notes and decide which you think will be best for you.

After reading the posts, if you still have questions, I will be glad to tell you my experience and what I know, though I'm no expert by any stretch.

Good luck.

Jeff


Ok thanks, for that, then I assume the " Lowest Aspect Ratio" " and the Highest Quality " tire offered by whatever mfg. has that size. Price would be no object.

However I'm still thinking, there would be differences in preformance, between different MFG. tires. Also, I suppose the Tread Design, could have some effect on performance also.

[flb_78]

As of right now, there are only 2 known tires that have been put on a Venture.

BFGoodrich T/A Radial - 155/80R15

Federal SS 657 - 165/80R15

The Federal is closest to factory dimensions for a 2nd gen Venture.

[Grey Ghost]

Ok thanks, for that, then I assume the " Lowest Aspect Ratio" " and the Highest Quality " tire offered by whatever mfg. has that size. Price would be no object.

However I'm still thinking, there would be differences in preformance, between different MFG. tires. Also, I suppose the Tread Design, could have some effect on performance also.


I didn't mean to get your dander up.

I think most everyone on here is still running the first ct that they have put on. I know that I am so I don't have any experience with any tire other than the Federal 165/80R15. This tire has a higher profile but it is the closest to the original mc tire, exactly the same as I measured it. It's the only one they make in that size so I guess that means it's also the highest quality one they make.

I paid $55 for the tire at a dealer in Mississippi and $20 to get it mounted here where I live. It is rated as a 40k mile tire on an auto.

The photos on the site flb_78 gave you will show the difference in tread design, and yes, like you, I suppose it could have some effect on performance, but again I haven't tried any other. You can read the post by the different owners and guess as well as any of us.

It's like learning to ride your first bike. You can read all you want, but your'e going to have to get on it to see if you like it.

[thebighop]

If you want some more info on which tires are working and those that we highly recommend that you stay away from...go to this site and read up on the subject...

http://forums.delphiforums.com/DarkSiding/messages/?start=Start+Reading+%3E%3E
(the first page will probably be a promotion, page, just go to bottom and click skip, and it will open the Dark Side Delphi forum)
There are hundreds of examples and first hand experience in there...

[thebighop]

I think most everyone on here is still running the first ct that they have put on. I know that I am so I don't have any experience with any tire other than the Federal 165/80R15. This tire has a higher profile but it is the closest to the original mc tire, exactly the same as I measured it. It's the only one they make in that size so I guess that means it's also the highest quality one they make.

I am running a BF Goodrich T/A Radial 155/80 R15....It has a slightly lower overall height.
The width is pretty close to the 150/90 Elite III I took off the bike when I went to the "Dark Side" (that sounds so evil...LOL), the main difference, in reference to the width, is I have gained maybe, 3 or 4 times the foot print, so there is much better traction. The width being measured at the widest spot on the tire which would be the side walls on the CT and the edge of the tread on the MT.
In starting, stopping , curves, and rain, I have found the CT to be much more capable than the MT's I have used in the past...bar none.
I am not entirely new to the use of MT's on a motorcycle...I owned a 54 Harley Hydra Glide back in the early 70's, and ran VW bus tires, because MT's weren't readily available back then.
Todays tires are a far cry from the tires of the 70's...they are engineered and built much better today. Back then we didn't have options, and you learned to hang on tight and muscle the bike through twisties...
Also back then, the Dragons Tail wasn't something we'd plan a vacation around, so tires were looked at more as something we needed to have in order to ride, and not so much for performance.
Currently I have around 5000 miles on this tire. The only thing I have really noticed about it's performance since I found my sweet spot is, there is a very distinct difference in the 'feel' of the tire in cool and hot weather....The cooler the temps, the firmer the tire feels, the hotter it gets (air temp) the softer it feels...But, it doesn't change the handling. I can feel a slight wobble in some but not all curves in 80 degree weather, and I can feel the rain grooves trying to guide the tire on hot days...cooler days gives a more responsive feel and doesn't feel like it is trying to correct itself in the rain grooves.
Those comparisons are chiefly expressway experiences, the majority of my riding is secondary roads which tend to be cooler due to less traffic and seldom have grooves...I have no problem with handling on these type roads regardless of temps...oh and it does gravel and sand roads 1000 times better than the MT's ever thought of doing...
I have had to make a couple panic stops , where one of the vehicularly challenged has pulled out in front of me, the CT , having more surface traction, made those stops with no problem. I have gone into curves a little hot and really had to lean into them to stay on the road and the CT held firm and didn't kick out from under me...in fact I had one incident where the front MT broke loose for a second, scared the crap outta me, but the rear CT held on and brought it back under control...
Is a CT for everyone? I have to say it could be...but you'd have to understand going in that it is gonna feel different and it takes a minute to get used to it...after the second or third time rolling with it, you won't notice it, unless you are purposely looking to fault the tire....