car tire on a first gen [Archive]

hipshot

05-23-2008, 01:06 AM

NOW.
i have already read ALL the pros and cons, about car tires on a mc!
don't really want to read any more of that.
what i WANT to know, is, WILL a car tire work on a FIRST GEN?????has anyone found one that will fit?
i don't ride long distances to search for "twisties".
i don't ride hard!
i would rather take it slow, and easy,(that way i can say i went there and enjoyed it)and get the most miles for my buck.
MY top speed, is usually 5 mph, LOWER than the posted speed limit.

what i want is a long lasting tire, not a "sticky, peg scraping, sport rider" type of tire!

oh, by the way, i am NOT the only member to have asked this question.
other queries, got lost in the "flames".
just jt:confused24:

Dano

05-23-2008, 07:49 AM

WIld hair reported earlier this week that he has had no problems so far on his recent trip... His thread is probably from last week. I might think about it when I wear this one out.

Dan

Rocket

05-23-2008, 08:07 AM

WIld hair reported earlier this week that he has had no problems so far on his recent trip... His thread is probably from last week. I might think about it when I wear this one out.

Dan
But it is not on the 1st gens, it is on the kaw (I checked).

Thom

05-23-2008, 08:22 AM

we have 16 in tires maybe a 155 / 16 ? do 2nd gens rear wheel fit on 1st gens ? if they do , how hard is it to sneak up on a 2nd gen ??:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::stirthepot:
Thom

flb_78

05-23-2008, 08:43 AM

I have not found a skinny enough tire to fit a 16" wheel. My Roadstar had a 16" wheel and I could not find a tire that would fit it.

The closest thing I could ever find is a 175/55R16 in Yokohama and it was 194 bux.

thebighop

05-23-2008, 11:01 AM

FLB_78...
Try this site... http://www.tirerack.com/index.jsp
I just bought a 155/80 R15 BF Goodrich through them...$77 delivered...I am putting it on my 99RSV next week.
I couldn't find any tire store anywhere around here that had them in stock. They were back ordered for months... This site had what I was looking for.
The 155 I got for my 2nd gen is comparable to the 150/90 15 that the specs call for...I'd try to stay at or slightly under the width called for, to avoid any rubbing on the drive shaft....

dray

05-23-2008, 10:03 PM

some of ya may want to check out this site hope it will work for you

http://forums.delphiforums.com/DarkSiding/start

Dray

Vermincelli

05-25-2008, 02:45 AM

You can say it won't work or how dangerous it is, but if you actually bothered to research around you will find that many people have been riding on car tires for a looooong time (old Harley Riders were doing it in the 70's) with no problems at all and it seems to be a popular modification for alaska trips that end up with miles on gravel roads that chew up normal bike tires. I thought it was a bad idea until I started really researching it, and now I've changed my tune. Every forum that talks about it is always the same...bunch of riders who use car tires that have 10's of thousands of miles with no problems and those who've never tried it who say it can't be safe or won't work.

Oh, also car tires are even coming as stock tires on custom bikes now. So if you actually have proof that a car tire is dangerous or not even possible, you better start emailing everyone who's been using them and tell them, but make sure you set aside a week or two because you're going to have a heck of alot of riders with hundreds of thousands of road miles with no problems to convince.

oh, and just for fun...

http://asware.net/serendipity/uploads/mirror/BossHoss.jpg

nothing like a mickey thompson on a boss hoss. :)

Although i admit, it took me a little bit to actually see the tire in the pic.

Freebird

05-25-2008, 07:22 AM

Folks...it's OK to debate an issue but this thread is turning into nothing but personal attacks. It is possible to disagree with an idea without taking personal shots at each other. I know that several people feel very strongly about this car tire idea but if the personal attacks can't be controlled, I will have to close and/or delete this thread.

greg_in_london

05-25-2008, 08:25 AM

When I looked at this a few years ago there were two avenues I wanted to follow,, but which unfortunately I had no chance to follow up.

One was to try out a London taxi tyre. They fit a 16" rim and are not too wide.

My understanding is that the bead is not the correct shape for a motorcycle rim, so while it may seal, in the event of a flat, it is more likely to come off the rim, just like a tube type tyre, which takes out a safety factor, but is not too great a risk imho. If memory serves the ridge for the bead is wider on bike rim than the car bead is wide. If it is the other way round, maybe you should consider fitting a tube. If you know it's okay and seals fine, great.
In the UK it has always been legal to use a car tyre, or a rear tyre on the front, if you drive with a sidecar.

The other possibility, which someone on a GSX1300 outfit shared with me a few years ago was that he was having m/c radial tyres remoulded with ford transit treads. I couldn't find anyone to do it though. He reported better wear and grip. Given that he was then using 150mph rated tyres at 80-90mph max he had no concerns about tyres shredding either. (There's the old chestnut - when you see shredded tyres on the motorway, what makes you think they were remoulds ?)

wild hair 39

05-25-2008, 08:40 AM

hay letts start a debete,:::witch side do we put the raised white letters on
thank that would be more,relixing:rotf::rotf::rotf::rotf::rotf::rotf:

greg_in_london

05-25-2008, 09:22 AM

Here's a link to a taxi co tyre - it's 175 - maybe it will fit ??
http://www.taxi-mart.co.uk/shop/prodtype.asp?cookiecheck=yes&PT_ID=133

greg_in_london

05-25-2008, 10:44 AM

Looking through the Continental catalogue, http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/de/en/continental/automobile/themes/tyretips/download/technical_databook_passenger_car_tyres_2008_en.pdf there is very little narrower than 185. On page 18 there is a 175/60 R16 available as a run-flat, but it is a winter tyre and might therefore get warm in the summer.

Page 36-7 has operating limits, and the width is given as 184-194mm based on 5J-6J rim. If that's a measurement in inches then it sounds as if the tyre would have to distort considerably to fit.

As an aside - probably of no use, the TEMPORARY use tyres on p64-5 have all sorts of interesting sizes, but they are designed for low speed use only. Maybe that's why the load indices are so high !

Page 65 has Vanco 175 tyres. The full specs are on p82 and show that it should fit a 4 1/2 J rim with a width of 179mm.

Maybe I'll check the Dunlop catalogue next. (They do the taxi tyres.)

greg_in_london

05-25-2008, 11:01 AM

Dunlop have the same size - 175/80 x16, but in some more interesting patterns.

I saw they have the Elite 3 Bias and Elite 3 Radial in 160/80 x16 with a load index of 80. This is higher than anything else I've seen (77) in the standard size. Has anyone tried this size ? Was it a good fit and did it last significantly longer than what you had before ?

wizard

05-25-2008, 12:06 PM

I just replaced my front tire with a Metzler tire made in Brazil, and I have the Goodrich TA Radial for the rear ordered. It should be here by Friday, and the guys at the tire store will mount it at no charge. The Metzler I had on the rear lasted me about 9500 miles, maybe more, by the time the car tire arrives. I'll give you all a report about the handling after our trip to Nevada and Arizona in June. I really believe that some here have completely discredited themselves and really should remain out of any discussion about tires until maybe doing a little research. It would really be nice to have a discussion on this subject without being called stupid...

cap'n eddie

05-25-2008, 04:20 PM

I agree with wizard if you don't have anything good to say on this topic to help someone then don't say anything. These people are looking for help ,not negitave feedback. I also belong to the VTX riders and a lot of them run car tires. One of my friends runs one on his 1800 and has 75,000 on his bike with a car tire and you can't keep up with him in the twistys . each to his own

P S can't we all get along.

:bighug:

GigaWhiskey

05-25-2008, 05:00 PM

oh, and just for fun...

http://asware.net/serendipity/uploads/mirror/BossHoss.jpg

nothing like a mickey thompson on a boss hoss. :)

Although i admit, it took me a little bit to actually see the tire in the pic.

Me too!

greg_in_london

07-07-2008, 03:37 PM

I nearly started another thread, but this one covers the topic.

Is it possible to use a V-Max back wheel so that a car tyre can be fitted on a first gen VR ?

Has anyone done it ?

Squeeze

07-07-2008, 04:22 PM

Vmax Rim is 3.5x15. But i'm not sure about the laod Index of the Wheel.

greg_in_london

07-07-2008, 07:47 PM

PB&J

07-07-2008, 08:54 PM

Thid debate still fascinates me. There are very good mc tires with flat profiles that will work just as good. The first that comes to mind is the Dunlop 491 that came as an oem tire in the 80's. Then there are Kendra tires that are dirty cheap. eat'em up, buy more. Then theres JC Whitney that still sells flat profile tires for old brit bike that would be Ideal. Car tires aren't bad but not the only option.

thebighop

07-08-2008, 10:14 AM

If I remember correctly , my 85 Venture ran a 140/90 16 rear....
and the comparable (85)V-Max was a 150/90 15 (I am pretty sure anyway)...
Running the Max rim will change a lot more than just the tire size you can use. You will be changing the entire attitude of the bike and that could have a lot of effect on handling...I can't say if it will be good or bad...but you'll change the rake or angle that the forks will align to the profile of the bike, because you will force the rear end to sit lower by however much smaller the Max rim and tire are compared to the Venture rim and tire...Like I said, that may result in a difference in handling....I just don't know if it will be good or bad....but probably worth finding out about....
My first concern would be width of the CT on a V-Max rim you are thinking of running...
Since the First Gen ran a narrower tire than the V-Max, I have to believe that the clearances under the First Gen fender would be narrower as well....
The best thing to do here, would be pull your rear off the the First Gen and do some measuring...
I have a BF Goodrich T/A Radial on my 99 RSV, and I have a good half inch clearance on either side, measuring in the tightest area, (shaft to tire). Keep in mind the second Gens run the same size rim as the V-Max, so clearances would be appropriate to accommodate same.....
I am guessing that a quarter inch of clearance will be sufficient, depending on the loads you'll carry and the air pressure you'll run...
I can give you some measurements from my tire/rim if it will help you decide the way to go...since you'd be going to that approx size anyway if you use a V-Max rim....
Lemme know if you want to measurments

Squeeze

07-08-2008, 06:08 PM

Hi Squeeze,

There's a few V-Max outfits about and I haven't heard of them having trouble with the wheels. The weight is a little less, but the power's a lot more, so the side loads in cornering could well be more.

Do you think they go straight on ?

Regarding the Hub Spline and Brake Disc Mounting Area, i think the Measurements are exactly the same and will fit bolt on.

I don't think the Vmax Load Index, even at higher Speeds will compare to the Loads of a 1Gen. You're comparing Apples and Oranges here. Only Answer would be to ask Yamaha about the Vmax Rim tech Specs.

Other than this, it's all about Tire Diameter. If you lower the rear on the Venture, you will have to have a Lot of persuasive Power to corner the Bike.

greg_in_london

07-09-2008, 07:10 PM

The preferred car tyre of choice many years ago on 15" rims was a Citroen 2CV tyre. I have one on my old Suzi GT550 outfit (long story). It was not low profile, so the overall diameter may be similar to the VR wheel. I ned to go to my other lock up and measure it.

lack of ground clearance is a problem on my bike, but I am planning to fit a stronger spring to lift it up again and I had my shock made 1/2" longer than standard which will compensate.

BJ Pennetelpel, I did try a Kenda tyre a few years back, but it was worn out in under a thousand miles. That's no use for me when I'm planning a touring holiday.

Squeeze, it's the cornering loads that are important on a bike and sidecar. If there is a published figure, it would be good to know, but the manufacturers don't tend to want to endorse any uses they didn't design for. I have a feeling that they don't recommend fitting sidecars at all to any of their bikes.

Thebighop, my Venture has a large sidecar attached, so I have no concerns about leaning through corners - the bike stays fairly flat. There really aren't many tyres at all with a suitable load rating. Avon SM tyres take quite a high loading, but that's when you're thinking of older, lighter bikes. (I have SM11s front and back on my XJ750 sidecar, for which they are great.) The change will have negligible effect on the rake and trail on the front, in any case.

PB&J

07-09-2008, 07:31 PM

Okay no ct for my Honda or Venture but my sidecar rig For that I would consider it for all the reasons mentioned . The problem is the narrow wheel, what could possible be narrow enough and readily available to fit an XS1100 front and back. I normally run the cheapest tires I can get because I'm lucky to get two seasons of riding out of them. At high speeds and excelleration rigs "crabwalk" or do a slight sideways slide it eats up a tire faster. Okays guys what can you recommend? Phil.

thebighop

07-10-2008, 10:47 AM

Thebighop, my Venture has a large sidecar attached, so I have no concerns about leaning through corners - the bike stays fairly flat. There really aren't many tyres at all with a suitable load rating. Avon SM tyres take quite a high loading, but that's when you're thinking of older, lighter bikes. (I have SM11s front and back on my XJ750 sidecar, for which they are great.) The change will have negligible effect on the rake and trail on the front, in any case.

I respectfully disagree with your last comment...at least in relation to a 2nd Gen without a side car...
I installed the leveling links which raise the rear end of the bike approx. 3/4 of an inch. The result is a lighter feeling front end and loss of the top heavy feeling, due to the change in rake...It is minor to say the least, but had a huge impact on the handling, especially in slow maneuvers like parking.
I don't know how much having a side car changes all that, but I do know that regardless of side car or not..changing to a V-Max rim is going to drop your rear end by .66 inches, based on using a 155/80 R15 BF Goodrich T/A Radial, and that is going to change your rake, maybe not so you notice with the side care, but without it, it would be a considerable difference.

MAINEAC

07-10-2008, 08:53 PM

Freebird

07-11-2008, 06:11 AM

Yes, there were some on both sides of the issue deleted. Nothing of real sustenance, just personal attacks. No reason for it.

wild hair 39

07-20-2008, 10:57 PM

i have 15,000 0n my CT now,still looks pretty new'so far my only complant is,it is a lot more sinsity to unever serfices,expecity at 10 to 30 mph ,corse it's a COWASAKI, so that may account for,this short comming,at least i don't have to change tires each time i change oil
lowell

flb_78

07-20-2008, 11:01 PM

GeorgeS

07-20-2008, 11:44 PM

Well, remember on the 1st Gen, You Cannot Increase the Width of the rear tire
Cause there Ain't no more space tween the tire and the Drive Shaft.

I spent couple hours 2 weeks ago, searching Car Tire Web sites, and I could not find a Car Tire, in 16 Inch, that was Narrow enough to fit.

Closest I could come was some 16 inch tires for the Old Volkswagen Bus Vehical

However I would assume they were pretty Old Technology tires. But not sure.

If I could find one that would fit, I would give it a try. I have a spare wheel for my 89.

But so far, no luck finding one to fit .

However I was wondering, if a 2nd Gen Swing Arm would work on a 1st Gen.
This might give the required clearance, if sombody wanted to try it.

Anyway, I ordered a new Dunlop Elite III, will stick with those for now. $106 deliverd from RonAyers.com GreenVille N.C. Get them before they run out if you want one for your 1st Gen !!!!

wild hair 39

07-23-2008, 10:09 AM

flb_78

07-23-2008, 08:25 PM

here is the picture

WOW!!! 15,000 miles and that tire looks great. Thanks for the pictures. Yours is wearing better then mine, but I ride like an idiot.:thumbsup2:

MAINEAC

07-23-2008, 09:23 PM

What is the stock size for a 1st Gen????
I've asked this before with no answer.

Gearhead

07-23-2008, 09:26 PM

Dude, it's on the website under History.

F - 120-90-18
R - 140-90-16

MAINEAC

07-23-2008, 09:45 PM

Histry Shmistry... I'm just trying to help out you antique collectors...

Okay near as I can tell is 175/75-16 is the closest size that anyone actually still makes and it's claimed to be 1.4" wider... but that's probably not the actual width when you squeeze it on a 4" rim..

Here's a link to the calculator I used... It doesn't copy and paste too good... pwobably javascwipt

http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/infoTireMath.dos

greg_in_london

07-24-2008, 09:40 AM

Hi maineac, did you post the right link ? This one just compares tyre sizes - it doesn't tell you the effect of changing the rim diameter.

To save anyone else going there, the overall diameter 'should' be 0.41" greater with the car tyre - nearly as much as the difference between a worn and a new tyre.

The width diference should be 1.38", or 15mm less clearance on each side.

Maybe a bit of exercise with a file would be enough ??:fingers-crossed-emo

PS conventional wisdom is that using a wider rim gives you a lower profile and wider tread, a narrower rim gives you a higher, possibly more rounded profile, but also narrower tread width.
4" to 3" is a fair difference in rim size, though, and could affect lateral stability of the tyre when you slam an outfit through the bends.

MAINEAC

07-24-2008, 11:11 AM

Hey Greg does that mean it will fit? Are you running a ct on your rig?
I just posted the link to help out these 1st Gen guys find a ct that fits.

greg_in_london

07-25-2008, 12:19 PM

I've been looking out for something that might fit, but not find a car tyre yet that will (see page one of the thread). The 175 might be close, but I suspect it will contact - I haven't bought one just to see, though.

I've always had Continentals on the back, except for a short lived mistake with a Kenda, the Chen Shin Hi-max that I fitted to get me home and the current Avon as I couldn't get a Conti.

kilowatt55

07-30-2008, 11:26 PM

The first bike I saw with a CT was an 1800 VTX Honda with 16" rim running a Goodyear very sharp looking tire. This tire may fit as the Honda has an enclosed shaft like the Venture. This is the best looking CT I've seen on a bike and the guy said it seemed to do OK with no complaints.

greg_in_london

07-31-2008, 08:37 PM

Years ago Goodyear were really rated for tyres to fit on sidecars, but looking at their website, the smallest 16" tyre they do is 175/80/16 which is the same as everyone else.

Shame...

MAINEAC

07-31-2008, 09:29 PM

hey Greg I thought there was a London Taxi Tire that would fit... I forget the size but they're not sold here in the US.

Ferrantelli

08-10-2008, 10:35 PM

For what is it worth I read all the posts regarding car tires on the Ventures so I can learn as much as I can before I make up my mind.

As far as some of the questions on sizes, I relied on my years of foreign car experience and came up with the following:

There were two cars sold in the USA, that had tire size close to the stock Ventures. They were the VW Beetle and the 140's series Volvo's both circa early 70's.

................................Venture ...................VW/Volvo tire ...............Difference

Rim…………………………….4.00”…………………………….4-5.5” width range
Tire…………………………….150/90-15…………………….165/80-15
Overall diameter………..25.60”…………………………..25.40”……………………………….-.20”
Overall width………………6.02”……………………………..6.4”…………………………………..+. 38”

Now for the availability of tire that sizes it may be a little difficult.
So far I have only tracked down two brands: Kumho-758 (see photo #1) and Nexen SB802 (see photo #2). Although these may work, I believe they are more auto oriented with a very flat tread area. The one tire I think that would work better is the Michelin ZXZ (see photo #3). I used this tire years ago on my cars. I found it to be quiet, normal longevity, good traction in dry or wet and most important it has a gradual change from tread to side wall compared to the other two, and I believe these qualities lend themselves better for motorcycle use. Hope this helps.

And for those of you with 2nd Generation with 16" if I come up with anything I will post it.

Studhauler

01-15-2009, 03:35 AM

Ferrantelli, don’t you have your tire size wrong for a 1st gen venture? It should be a 16 rim.

I have both a 1st gen Venture and a 85 VMax. They both have new tires on them. When one wears out I am going to try to switch the VMax rim to the Venture and mount a c/t. I will post back to this thread. It may be a year from now. The VMax will get a different rim and chain drive, but that is a different forum.

Cody

Squeeze

01-15-2009, 08:38 AM

... but that is a different forum.

Cody

Really ??

Bluesman

01-15-2009, 09:11 AM

Another interesting link: http://lifeisaroad.com/stories/2004/10/27/theDarkSide.html

Bluez :cool17:

BigBoyinMS

01-15-2009, 12:44 PM

Our London buddy had a good idea.
If it was me, I would search out a tire retread business and see if they could put a C/T cap on a M/C tire. Might even be able to choose the tread design.

greg_in_london

01-15-2009, 02:38 PM

I didn't get anywhere with finding a place that would do it. I didn't try all that hard as there aren't suitable places locally (that I found, anyway), but I think you would need to know someone there to do it as a favour - someone who was sure that you are sensible, would use it in a reasonable way and would not come back at them if it did not work out.

It would certainly be seen as 'bending the rules' and most places I would expect to not do that for someone who just came in 'off the street'.

Ferrantelli

01-15-2009, 11:18 PM

Texaskid

01-16-2009, 01:46 PM

Here is another link to another forum. I ran a ct on my 1800 vtx and loved it. In the rain I had no problems coming to a stop. No sliding at all.The tire just grabbed. The slow turn around was different, but once you got use to it , no problem. I have heard that it makes the front tire last a bit longer too. Ride safe.

Riding on the Darkside (http://mcdarksiders.forumotion.com/index.htm)

GigaWhiskey

01-18-2009, 09:19 PM

OMG Hipshot! You started this in Aug 2006! This must be the record holding thread.

You Rock!

greg_in_london

01-21-2009, 12:05 PM

Unfortunately it's a long thread because no-one's managed to achieve it yet (at least not without converting he back end to a 15" wheel or building a new rim).

Here's to more success in 2009...

tv5150

12-01-2009, 01:02 PM

OK, here I am, getting another 1st Gen Ven delivered to me on Friday (feel like a kid waiting for Christmas) and having owned 4 1st Gens back in the day. Now for the serious part. Has ANYONE been able to come up with fitting a CT on the 1st Gen. It had been so long since I'd been exposed to one, that when I did the research on R&Ring the rear wheel, I pretty much decided time to break-out the CT. It's not like changing the rear wheel on a GL18, which is like an afternoon in the park on a sunny spring day in comparison. That's some serious work, getting the 1st gen changed out. I want to do it once in a looooooong time and having already ran a CT on a GL18, I know the results if you get the size right the 1st time. Anyway, I'm here to stay with my newly aquired 89 Venture. Any and all info regarding the "magic number" for the tire size would be greatly appreciated. TV :scratchchin:

Yammer Dan

12-01-2009, 01:35 PM

Congrats on the "New" ride. I think I saw that one on E-Bay. I drool over most of them as they go thru. If things hadn't depleated my pockets so much the last few years I would probally have a dozen by now!! Good Luck with it!

yamahamer

12-01-2009, 06:59 PM

Texaskid gave a link to a great site for C/T's! :happy34: I havn't been on here for a bit......I seem to remember everyone being alot more helpfull and less hatefull? :stickpoke: I guess yall got PMS! :yikes:

footsie

12-08-2009, 06:00 AM

Our London buddy had a good idea.
If it was me, I would search out a tire retread business and see if they could put a C/T cap on a M/C tire. Might even be able to choose the tread design.

I am pretty sure that won't work, the molds that you retread in are very specific, certain cap for a certain casing, but its been many years since I have capped a tire, we sold our molds in the late 80's when state tire contracts made new tires cheaper than recapping materials. So they may have a different process now. But I don't think I would trust a recap on a bike.

Gregg

showmebob

02-25-2010, 06:39 AM

I am new here and new to the the 86 venture I just bought and was wondering about car tires on bikes, but I got to say something when I hear someone talking about recaps on a bike, i drove over the the road and have seen many recaps fly apart in hot weather and it is againest the law to run them on the front of big trucks, for the same reason i would not run them on a bike, no way shape or form, just to dangerous I would say, my two cents worth.

How about the date code on tires, if you can get alot more miles out of a car tire would the time limet of 6 years run out before the tread wears out, just a tought, you may have allready had this conversation.
Love this site
thanks