Car tire mounted on a RSV

[flb_78]

:stirthepot:

As the pics show, you can fit a wider tire then the I put on.

This is a BFGoodrich T/A Radial 155/80R15.

There is a good 1/2 inch of clearance between the tire and driveshaft.

If I ever wear this tire out, I will go wider.

ADDED : If you have a sidecar or a Voyager Kit, this is a must do mod.

ADDED EVEN MORE : Current mileage is 74265

[george c]

is that tire taller or shorter then stock ??

[hig4s]

is that tire taller or shorter then stock ??

It calulates to 1/2 inch shorter.

stock is 25.4in dia.
That should be 24.8in dia.

[flb_78]

Yep, it's a little shorter. I also purchased a speedo healer and will install it tomorrow.

[Tartan Terror]

I hope everyone will listen to reason and not jump on this band wagon. Just a real bad and dangerous Idea.

[flb_78]

I hope everyone will listen to reason and not jump on this band wagon. Just a real bad and dangerous Idea.

yes, please keep putting on Metzlers and Michelins that have been proven to come apart and blow out even with regular maintenance. :stirthepot:

The bike rides fine in a straight line and rear brakes only lock up now if I stand on the pedal. Turning is different, but every turn is getting faster and steadier.

I'll have much more experience tomorrow.

[wizard]

OK! When my rear Metzler finally wears down I'll be fitting this car tire on my Venture. Thanks for sharing this information. I hope you continue to share your experiences in these posts. It seems that there are a few posters that must have had a bad experience with a car tire mounted on their bike. I wonder if it was a bias ply or radial tire, and if it rubbed on the drive shaft housing causing the negative feelings?

[SaltyDawg]

OK! When my rear Metzler finally wears down I'll be fitting this car tire on my Venture. Thanks for sharing this information. I hope you continue to share your experiences in these posts. It seems that there are a few posters that must have had a bad experience with a car tire mounted on their bike. I wonder if it was a bias ply or radial tire, and if it rubbed on the drive shaft housing causing the negative feelings?

To me it's more a matter of common sense prevailing. Looking at the profile of the tire you can see that it is not rounded so rolling into a turn will be a hairy thing. The bike going straight will be riding on a flat contact patch and in the turns it will have to transition to the edge of the tire. An edge by the way that WAS NOT DESIGNED to be ridden on and a MUCH smaller contact patch.

I do however agree that if you were to put a Voyager kit, or side car on the bike then this might be a better alternative since turns are different and would handle the extra weight better.

[Bartley]

Yep, it's a little shorter. I also purchased a speedo healer and will install it tomorrow.

Would the one size bigger also be 1/2" taller? I was also wondering why you would need a speedo healer. I thought speedo readings come from the front wheel. Maybe I'm wrong. Anyways, let us know how this works out for you. There are alot of Goldwing owners who have switched to the dark side and other than getting used to slightly different handling, I have yet to hear of a bad experience. I'm looking forward to seeing how this works out. Keep us informed. Thanks.

[BEER30]

I would have to take the stand that TT and others have mentioned . Sure your getting off cheaper in the long run with longer lasting tires . I would most likely look into a CT as well , but a little birdie tells me that if the MC industry wanted CT's on a MC , they would have done that a long time ago . And yes they did that a long time ago , but were the scoots built like they are today along with many more maniacs behind the handlebars ?
Scoots with Voyager Kits and sidecar , the tires ride more on the flat sides . I just hope and pray that I do not have to see you on your bottom side . :fingers-crossed-emo

BEER30

[dragerman]

:stirthepot:

As the pics show, you can fit a wider tire then the I put on.

This is a BFGoodrich T/A Radial 155/80R15.

There is a good 1/2 inch of clearance between the tire and driveshaft.

If I ever wear this tire out, I will go wider.

ADDED : If you have a sidecar or a Voyager Kit, this is a must do mod.
That’s great! Now if I can only find one for the front I can get a set of studded snow tires and ride all year!! :snow2:

[Jerry W]

Forrest,
I have ridden with you and know for a fact that you have a very agressive riding style, please let us know how you like the car tire. If it works for you, I know it will work for me. Thanks for your posts, some may or may not agree, but in my thinking when this or any other link does not support new ideas it is time to shut them down, or at least time for me to quit being a part of them.

[BuddyRich]

Your going to turn/lean on a tire that is flat shaped. That puts you on the edge of the tire and not as much tread on the ground. Also an automobile radial is designed so the tread lays flat on the ground while the sidewall flexs. IMHO its just not worth it to me. Nothing wrong with having ideas, some just don't look like they will work, but good luck and be careful while trying it out.

[oldman]

[quote=flb_78;188314]:stirthepot:

As the pics show, you can fit a wider tire then the I put on.

This is a BFGoodrich T/A Radial 155/80R15.

There is a good 1/2 inch of clearance between the tire and driveshaft.

If I ever wear this tire out, I will go wider.

ADDED : If you have a sidecar or a Voyager Kit, this is a must do mod.[/quote

Did you happen to measure the rim width when you had the tire off. I was so eger to get my ct on that I didn't even think to measure mine. This would also effect weather we could put on a wider tire. Thanks Oldman

[flb_78]

Did you happen to measure the rim width when you had the tire off. I was so eger to get my ct on that I didn't even think to measure mine. This would also effect weather we could put on a wider tire. Thanks Oldman

Nope, didn't measure the wheel. I wouldn't be too worried about "approved rim widths" though. I've seen some fat tires mounted on skinny rims and have never seen one roll off the bead unless tire pressure was way too low.

[oldman]

Nope, didn't measure the wheel. I wouldn't be too worried about "approved rim widths" though. I've seen some fat tires mounted on skinny rims and have never seen one roll off the bead unless tire pressure was way too low.

If we put a real wide tire on a narrow rim it would make the tire more rounded then we wouldn't have to be afraid to go around a corner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:rotf::cool10::w histling:

[flb_78]

If we put a real wide tire on a narrow rim it would make the tire more rounded then we wouldn't have to be afraid to go around a corner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:rotf::cool10::w histling:


TRUE DAT!!!:rotf:

[Grey Ghost]

I have a local dealer who ordered a Radial on Friday for me to look at. I left the note on my desk and I don't remember for sure the size. I think it is wider that what y'all are using but according to him I don't have to take it if I don't think it will work.

I also talked with a company in Tennesse who sells tires for old vintage cars and motorcycles. He is the one who had asked me for the width of the wheel. I am supposed to call him back Monday or Tuesday with that info and he will try to match it up with a tire that should work.

Jeff

[gunboat]

hi flb_78
was just wondering what brand and size front tire are you using with the rear bfg t/a 155/80r/15? this tire is a radial correct and is your front tire a radial also? i'am using metzeler me880's right now. the front tire is a 130/90 hb-16. the rear is a 150/90 hb-15 just wondering do i keep the me880 front to use with the bfg t/a radial rear?

thanks in advance
don:stirthepot:

[FROG MAN]

I just put a new rear tire on mamamos voyager 99. I'm sure the straight line running will wear down the rear sooner then expected. This might be a idea for rear tire replacement later. I bet the load rating is higher on that B.F. Goodrich. I blowed a new metzler in Connecticuit last summer. I paid $500 for a Uhaul to bring her on in. I could have bought several car tires for that. The voyager kit is always attached and the scoot is never operated without it. The voyager kit makes for a great towing scoot.

P/S Your idea would never work here in WV on a standard scoot. We have more twisties then straight roads.Please be careful and keep us posted on tire wear,handling, and performance.

[pegscraper]

Man, if only I could find a car tire with white walls on both sides. I'd like to be doing this and not be spending such ridiculous money on motorcycle tires that don't last. Gotta have my WWs though, like Indiana Jones gotta have his hat. My bike just doesn't look right without them.

[Steve S]

I'm sorry, but I firmly believe that putting a car tire on a motorcycle is the most dangerous thing that you could do. A radial car tire is made with soft sidewalls. When you get into a turn and the bike leans far enough to ride on the edge of the tire, the tire will shift to the side. This could cause some very dangerous rubbing against the frame or driveshaft. It would also make the bike unstable during the transition. I would not feel comfortable knowing that the tire is that unstable.

I wish you luck with the experiment. I hope it works out for you.

Ride Safe

[FROG MAN]

Nothing wrong with doing a little research on the matter. Here is a interesting read.

http://lifeisaroad.com/stories/2004/10/27/theDarkSide.html

[WIKD]

First off let me say I have never put a car tire on a bike and never will. My reasons are different than many others though. I still ride mine like I rode my sportbike and as well as a car tire works you can not throw it into a curve like a bike tire with as much confidence. As for the safety aspect of it I ride with two guys that use car tires and love them. One on a VTX and one on a Warrior. The guy on the VTX has over 7,000 miles on the car tire without any signs of wear and the only thing he said was at the beginning you have to get used to the way it leans into a curve. Not dangerous, just different. The guy on the Warrior likes the tire but says when it wears out hes going back to his 200 series bike tire for the higher speed handling in the curves. Yeah well, we'll see what last longer. The car tire or the bike on that one. I'm not saying there are not differences in handling, we spoke about these in length when the VTX rider first changed over, but once you get used to the differences it does seem like a great option for touring.

[SaltyDawg]

Thanks for your posts, some may or may not agree, but in my thinking when this or any other link does not support new ideas it is time to shut them down, or at least time for me to quit being a part of them.

So let me get this straight. Because some of us are concerned about the use of a car tire on a MC and we don't support the idea this thread should be shut down? Last time I checked this was a free country and we have the right to express ourselves on this board as long as it's respectful of others. It's good to have an open discussion about something that possibly poses a safety issue.

MC tires wear out faster than car tires, we all know that, that doesn't make the car tire a safer choice for a MC. MC tires are designed to be ridden on the side where as car tires are not. MC tires are made of softer rubber to give GRIP on those sides, car tires are not. Just because some have had a good experience with car tires doesn't mean it's safe for all. Driving styles are different, usage is different.

I am probably one of the members on this site who goes through tires more than most. I commute every day as well as weekend rides. I put 27,000 miles on my bike this past year. I would love to have a longer lasting tire, but not at the expense of possibly leaving my wife and kid without a husband and father.

Bottom line just because someone doesn't agree with your thinking doesn't automatically make them wrong, and should be censored.

[Just-Jack]

with the warrenties the r on the bikes would putting a car tire on the bike void anything ?

[AKRefugee]

I'm not a tire expert by any stretch of the imagination but I do know how to use my common sense. There was a prior thread here about this very subject and I read it quite thoroughly. After all the reviewing I finally came to the conclusion that I have very little rubber meeting the road as it is and to reduce that in a corner, where I need it the most, would not be very wise. The picture of the GW on the dragon quite clearly demonstrated that to me. Look at that picture on the post on page 4 half way down.

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=19854&highlight=Tire&page=4

What I save on the tires ain't worth it to me.

Just my 2:2cents:

[Jerry W]

So let me get this straight. Because some of us are concerned about the use of a car tire on a MC and we don't support the idea this thread should be shut down? Last time I checked this was a free country and we have the right to express ourselves on this board as long as it's respectful of others. It's good to have an open discussion about something that possibly poses a safety issue.

MC tires wear out faster than car tires, we all know that, that doesn't make the car tire a safer choice for a MC. MC tires are designed to be ridden on the side where as car tires are not. MC tires are made of softer rubber to give GRIP on those sides, car tires are not. Just because some have had a good experience with car tires doesn't mean it's safe for all. Driving styles are different, usage is different.

I am probably one of the members on this site who goes through tires more than most. I commute every day as well as weekend rides. I put 27,000 miles on my bike this past year. I would love to have a longer lasting tire, but not at the expense of possibly leaving my wife and kid without a husband and father.

Bottom line just because someone doesn't agree with your thinking doesn't automatically make them wrong, and should be censored.

Ok, that is kinda' what I said. I stated that I felt sites should support new ideas, I did not say anyone should not have their opinion. If you read what I said and get is straight you will see that I was not saying anyone should not voice an opinion, but we should support new ideas.

Last post. Aidos

[SaltyDawg]

Ok, that is kinda' what I said. I stated that I felt sites should support new ideas, I did not say anyone should not have their opinion. If you read what I said and get is straight you will see that I was not saying anyone should not voice an opinion, but we should support new ideas.

Last post. Aidos

I apologize if I misunderstood your post but you have to agree your statement didn't mention sites supporting new ideas.

some may or may not agree, but in my thinking when this or any other link does not support new ideas it is time to shut them downThe way I saw it was since people didn't agree with what the thread was about then it should be closed.

Again I apologize for not understanding it better. I agree new ideas should be brought forth, that's the only way we can move forward and make things better and safer, but with new ideas there is always the chance of those who see it a different way.

[SaltyDawg]

I'm not a tire expert by any stretch of the imagination but I do know how to use my common sense. There was a prior thread here about this very subject and I read it quite thoroughly. After all the reviewing I finally came to the conclusion that I have very little rubber meeting the road as it is and to reduce that in a corner, where I need it the most, would not be very wise. The picture of the GW on the dragon quite clearly demonstrated that to me. Look at that picture on the post on page 4 half way down.

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=19854&highlight=Tire&page=4

What I save on the tires ain't worth it to me.

Just my 2:2cents:

Man that picture of the GW speaks a 1000 words. I couldn't imagine coming around a corner and finding sugar sand or leaves in my track. Pucker factor in the high 90's for sure. I wouldn't even consider taking that bike out when it's wet outside.

[hig4s]

Seems to be a lot of emotion and mythology in this thread.

Fact, modern sport style car tires are as sticky or stickier than modern cruiser and touring motorcycle tires!!! Period. That is not a concern!!

Fact, in a straight line a rear car tire will have a bigger contact patch and more traction than a motorcycle tire.

Fact, a car tires side walls are designed to flex, so a rear car tire on a motorcycle when going around a corner the inside sidewall will flex, keeping the entire flat portion of the tire on the ground giving more contact patch and traction, right up until the point were the flexing ability is exceeded. Higher profile tires will flex more.

So for those that still ride your cruiser or touring bike like they did their sport bikes, and use more extreme lean angles, car tires are not a good idea. If you are mellow and do not do radical cornering, it probably won't be and issue.

Also because of the flex, flicking in and out of corners (even at mild lean angles) becomes strange as the bike will feel like it is wandering. Also motorcycles once in a turn become neutral, (meaning you don't have to keep counter steering to stay in the corner) With a car rear tire, because the side wall is flexed, and trying to rebound, you need to continue to counter steer or the bike will try to straighten out.

Personally I don't like the idea of having to keep counter steering through a corner or a bike that feels like it wanders around the corner. It takes away the feel of flying. But it is tempting to get reasonable mileage..

Final facts,
Pirelli car tires for years have use multiple compounds, no reason they couldn't do that with motorcycle tires, making the center a harder compound for better mileage, while keeping the sides soft for cornering.

There is no reason the manufacturers couldn't make a cruiser or touring motorcycle tire that got 40k to 50k. There is just not enough competition and they just don't make enough money off those type tires to bother with the R&D. Especially R&D that would cause them to sell less tires.

[flb_78]

well, a little over 250 miles today and the handling just gets smoother. I likes it. At a speedohealed 50mph, I can scrape both my floorboards in my lane just by rocking the bike back and forth. :cool10:

[Tartan Terror]

with the warrenties the r on the bikes would putting a car tire on the bike void anything ?

I would suggest calling the dealer to ask and tell me what they say. I already know tha answer but the the big thing is you insurance co. I asked my insurance agent and I was told that it was not a safe mod and a unappropriate application. If I made it by some chance through the inspection, if he was the insurer he would bounce the claim based on that and believe me they can and I have seen it in other tire applications on things like trailers using car tires. Besides being a dangerous misapplication and the fact that they make MC application tires for a reason why would you take a chance.

Hey you could ride it and get lucky but what if that luck comes to an end. I know I dont want to find out.

Fact is, is it worth getting hurt over?

[flb_78]

Besides being a dangerous misapplication and the fact that they make MC application tires for a reason why would you take a chance.

Hey you could ride it and get lucky but what if that luck comes to an end. I know I dont want to find out.

Fact is, is it worth getting hurt over?


It's not dangerous. Plenty of folks run em on other bikes with no adverse results.:detective:

[flb_78]

Many of you may have heard of YellowWolf. He's the guy that rides a GoldWing like a sport bike.

Here is his review of a car tire on a GoldWing on the infamous Dragon's Tail.

http://www.ridersrally.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18865&highlight=

ok for the folks that felt the need to bad mouth me or bust on me because i did not like what they do shame on ya,if you like it great but if others dont so what why make it personal if you dont know them?

for those that figured i was messing with them thanks for knowing me and having a sense of humour!!

im not as good at this but i will try

first thanks to trialsman for letting me ride his bike"brave man,lol"

ok we met in robbinsville,i rode 67 miles at 7am to meet them on my sv and about frooze!!

ddking was nice enough to loan me his jacket and gloves which were elect.!!!
i took a quick look at the bike,tires were new,bike looked good and after a warm up we were off.
riding up rt129 at first was strange to say the least,if i turned at all it felt like rolling over the edge of the tire"i knew that was not the case because i was not laid over that far.
but over all was not as bad as i thought it was gonna be.so we get to the sweepers up closer to the dam and the exits of the turns were causing me to run wider than i wanted,the car tire makes the bike want to stand up a bit.
every turn i did got better as i got used to it,as i got to the tight turns leading up to the store i leaned over more and more,felt strange but never did anything to scare me"yet"lol
so we headed off on the gap,oh ddking left his bike in town and rode with?mike?in his mini,arnbutt was also in his mini and trialsman choose to ride with him rather than freeze on my sv,lol
well the gap was a real mess with salt everywhere,looked like a sand truck went through there!!!!
so off i go,i take it real easy on the site in lap,north bound was worse than south bound so on the return trip we picked up the pace!
this is where in my eyes it gets strange,on tite turns going fast it did not feel strange,i think because i was changing direction so fast i was not on the flat of tire very long,side to side took a bit more effort but was very ok!
we finished that run and took a break,arnbutt timed our run and it was a 13,42?i think which was very good going by what the road was like!

ok first the time is just there for a comparo,my fastest day run is about a 12-12.5,this is just a comparison

so off for another run,north bound i kinda took it easy,but south i really let it rip,half the lap i went out of my way trying to spin the tire out of turns,i would go in slow and at mid turm i would peg it?i could get it to spin but i was trying,in a real lap i would never ride in this manner!
also when im really going i have to be carefull on a car tire under braking do to the ease of which a bt will lock up,so i played with this a bit a noticed with a car tire i could be more ham fisted with out worry!

the other part of this lap i just let loose,when i cought a slow car that strange feeling comes back,like a center worn rear tire times ten times as bad,,,not dangerious just strange,,im my eyes for just cruising in the mtns this would bother me but i bet it goes away as you ride it more.
the bike can be leaned a far as a bike tire in the wing,never a slip.

so,after a rest we desided to go get bbq in town so back we go,the feeling i did not like was way less on the sweepers on the way back!

ok so here is my list of good and bad
bad
on my bike on sweepers ,i could put the cruise on ,start a turn and ride no hands"dont try this kids"all the way around,,,,with a car tire you stand strait up and go strait,lol,,,,no biggie keep a hand on the bars

my bad list really is only in comfort in turns as the car tire just feels different,,the more i rode the more it went away.and this is where people differ i think,some think this feels real bad and some say they dont even feel it.just a personal thing i believe,

my good list really surprized me!!!
it gripped well,i would not say better than a bike tire in turns but not worse thats for sure,we would have to mount one on a sportier bike to find out but on a wing i dont believe one would slow me down"eating crow here folks"gulp!
strait line braking was easier,we did not measuse but i would not think that it stops faster due to the ft brakes are most of your stopping power but was for sure easier to modulate the rear brake for sure!!
i did not have a mt to campair lean angle on,i wonder if the tire i tried was as tall or not, than a 60 bike tire and im sure trialsman will tell us.

grip out of turns is gonna be hard to tell ya,like braking it depends on skill level i think,i have pretty good throttle control so not a big difference for me but i think the car tire just edges out the bt at this,again not big enough to count as much.

would i use one? depends on things like,
if i lived in the mountains and did only ride in them,no
the feel is not there,it will do the job as well i just dont like the feel,bike tire just feels better.

if i did alot of hwy riding ,maybe two up and towing a trailer or not,yes!
the feel would not really come into play and the milage would be great!

if i did half hwy and half mtns??hmmmmm not sure,maybe
if i say lived in florida and did some trips to the mtns,i guess i would have a car tire for florida and have 2nd wheel for my trips to the mountains!

ok all this said i think i liked the car tire because trialsman and company have done alot of car tire tests,different tires"this was a run flat"also they tested different pressures and different susp. settings,i believe if i just threw one on my own wing with out the testing i would not have liked it as much!!
i also have kind of busted trialsman and co. for their bad choice of lines in the mountains in the past and thats a good thing because i after lunch led ddking and trialsman on a short ride and was impressed with the way they were riding!!!

again thanks to trialsman,ddking,arnbutt for a great day!!!!

sorry its so long but i wanted to be as informing as possible,thanks for your time,,,,,,,rick

[wizard]

Here is a interesting site about riding on the darkside. There is even a section for Yamaha's, but nobody has posted in that section yet. They just got their first post from a Boss Hoss rider and his experience with car tires. I was surprised by the many smaller Honda bikes using car tires.
http://vtxdarksiders.forumotion.com/index.htm (http://vtxdarksiders.forumotion.com/index.htm)

[Tartan Terror]

Just because one guy does it doesnt mean its the right thing to do. If he jumped off a cliff would you do it to? I hope your not basing your reasoning on this guy getting lucky so far. Never mind the car tire thing, just the fact you are mixing bias and radials is far from recommended by the guys who design the bikes and tires.

People I strongly recommend that you follow the warnings of the bike builders and tire builders. All that information is well documented at your dealers and on the tire builders websites. They spend millions to find out this information. Dont base it on a few rogue people who do whatever and get lucky.

[gibvel]

Scott,

Ever feel like you're bashing your head against a brick wall, wasting your breath, casting pearls before swine?

As these guys see it it's not one guy it's lots of guys that are riding with car tires and not having problems. Or the "well, I don't ride it like a sports bike so I don't need it to handle like one". Well, someday, there might be that one instance, that one split second where you DO need it to handle like a sport bike or at least the best it can and guess what, it won't be there. (I'm not trying to change anyones mind here, just thinking out loud so don't anyone get their panties in a wad!!)

Your words are not wasted buddy!! I hear you and my common sense is right with you on this one.

I do, however, pray that these guys, with the car tires, and everyone out there, no matter what they ride or ride on, will never have an accident and ride safe!!

[Squeeze]

Here is a interesting site about riding on the darkside. There is even a section for Yamaha's, but nobody has posted in that section yet. They just got their first post from a Boss Hoss rider and his experience with car tires. I was surprised by the many smaller Honda bikes using car tires.
http://vtxdarksiders.forumotion.com/index.htm (http://vtxdarksiders.forumotion.com/index.htm)

Maybe those Yammi Riders have been more addicted to Live than the others ?

:D :D :D

[flb_78]

Mixing bias and radials is not dangerous when done across different axles. Since I haven't figgered out yet how to put dually's on the bike yet, I have nothing to fear by mixing them. In fact, the BRAND NEW JUST RELEASED Yamaha Raider comes out from the factory with a bias on the front and a radial on the back.

Tartan, do you harp on folks who put hitches on their bike since Yamaha says not to?

Since Squidley went down because his specialized super duper Michelin Commander motorcycle tire came apart while he was pulling a trailer, do you go into the trailer forum and tell those folks they have no common sense since it's proven to be dangerous by one of our own?

Did you know there's an entire section on the GL1800 forum dedicated just to car tires and yet there are no threads about how their motorcycle blew up in a fiery crash?
http://www.gl1800riders.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=17

[Squeeze]

Forrest,

Scotty is only concerned about the one and single Member who might have a Accident because here in the Thread he didn't read any Vote against using a Car Tire on a Motorcycle. It's the same than Me and DOT 5 (silicone based) Brake Fluid.


Beside that, my question would be, how come that not a single Car Tire Rider hasn't had an Accident or was going down ??

I just can't believe that nobody went down. That is a utmost Probability and against all Numbers. Not that i would say a Car Tire would have to take the Blame of any Accident happening nor it may have contributed to such an Event, but i never read about any Mishap or anything likely. Just makes me wonder.

[Tartan Terror]

FLB im glad you know so much about tires. What do you do for a living?. Well I do this for a living and on a car radial and bias on different axels it is ok but not recommended and not dangerous but will DEFINITELY affect handling! We are not however talking about cars. Find me one real bike source that tells you this is ok. Im talking Bike makers, Tire makers and real mechanics. Im not talking about some guru who did it on his and that makes it ok. If you want to play with you life go ahead but dont give bad advice that could result in a member getting hurt based on it worked for me.


Members before you think of doing this please go the the websites on the tire and bike builders and you will se this is just a bad idea.

FLB I wish you luck with your car tire.

[SaltyDawg]

Shoot fire why not put one on the front too. That way you may never have to change tires again. If it's safe for the back it must be safe for the front.

[Freebird]

Mixing bias and radials is not dangerous when done across different axles. Since I haven't figgered out yet how to put dually's on the bike yet, I have nothing to fear by mixing them. In fact, the BRAND NEW JUST RELEASED Yamaha Raider comes out from the factory with a bias on the front and a radial on the back.

Tartan, do you harp on folks who put hitches on their bike since Yamaha says not to?

Since Squidley went down because his specialized super duper Michelin Commander motorcycle tire came apart while he was pulling a trailer, do you go into the trailer forum and tell those folks they have no common sense since it's proven to be dangerous by one of our own?

Did you know there's an entire section on the GL1800 forum dedicated just to car tires and yet there are no threads about how their motorcycle blew up in a fiery crash?
http://www.gl1800riders.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=17

I'm not going to say much more, I've already stated my opinion on this issue and there is no reason to do so again. I hate to see any further confusion though regarding other tires. As far as I know, it was never determined that Squidley's problem was due to tire failure. It may well have been damaged by something in the road. That can happen to any tire. Also, I may be wrong but I don't THINK he was pulling his trailer. I know that there have been problems with the Metzler tires but I know of no such problems with the Michelin and hate to see such information being spread around unless it has been confirmed that there is a problem. I've worn out two Michelin tires with no problems at all. Most of the miles were riding two up and pulling a trailer that is usually overloaded. If it does turn out to be a problem with that tire, one failure does NOT mean that they are all bad. I know of very few car tire brands that have never experienced a failure at one time or another.

[Freebird]

I would have to see some supporting documentation to accept all of these "Facts".

Seems to be a lot of emotion and mythology in this thread.

Fact, modern sport style car tires are as sticky or stickier than modern cruiser and touring motorcycle tires!!! Period. That is not a concern!!

From what I've seen, there is only ONE tire found that is the correct size. While some sport car tires may be as sticky (haven't seen any proof of this "fact") that does not mean that this BF Goodrich is as sticky. It is NOT a high end sport car tire. I have no idea what compound is used on this particular tire. Maybe it is stickier, maybe not.

Fact, in a straight line a rear car tire will have a bigger contact patch and more traction than a motorcycle tire.

Probably but it's not the straight line performance that concerns most of us.

Fact, a car tires side walls are designed to flex, so a rear car tire on a motorcycle when going around a corner the inside sidewall will flex, keeping the entire flat portion of the tire on the ground giving more contact patch and traction, right up until the point were the flexing ability is exceeded. Higher profile tires will flex more.

This is indeed true but everything you posted is based upon how the tire reacts when mounted on a car, the intended application. I would think that the geometry of the cars suspension, weight of the car, many other factors contribute to the properties of the sidewall flexing. No way can those same properties be assumed the same when mounted on a motorcycle.

So for those that still ride your cruiser or touring bike like they did their sport bikes, and use more extreme lean angles, car tires are not a good idea. If you are mellow and do not do radical cornering, it probably won't be and issue.

As most of us in this group are riding touring bikes then we are not often subjecting them to extreme lean angles. I would think that MOST of us though do enjoy getting a bit aggressive when we find some nice curves. I know that I do.

Also because of the flex, flicking in and out of corners (even at mild lean angles) becomes strange as the bike will feel like it is wandering. Also motorcycles once in a turn become neutral, (meaning you don't have to keep counter steering to stay in the corner) With a car rear tire, because the side wall is flexed, and trying to rebound, you need to continue to counter steer or the bike will try to straighten out.

That bothers me. One of the greatest feelings in riding is hitting a curve and the proper apex and feeling the bike roll into a nice lean, the smoothness of leaning through those curves. I just don't want to take away that great feeling with having to constantly counter steer. How many of us have spent time trying to improve how out bikes handle. Leveling links, Super Braces, tire selection and proper air pressure. Now we are going to throw that away to save a bit of money on a rear tire?

Personally I don't like the idea of having to keep counter steering through a corner or a bike that feels like it wanders around the corner. It takes away the feel of flying. But it is tempting to get reasonable mileage..

Final facts,
Pirelli car tires for years have use multiple compounds, no reason they couldn't do that with motorcycle tires, making the center a harder compound for better mileage, while keeping the sides soft for cornering.

There is no reason the manufacturers couldn't make a cruiser or touring motorcycle tire that got 40k to 50k. There is just not enough competition and they just don't make enough money off those type tires to bother with the R&D. Especially R&D that would cause them to sell less tires.

There is probably some truth to this one. I agree that improvements could probably be made.

[Squidley]

I'm not going to get into this discussion either, as quite frankly I dont care. That being said, the Michelin Commander that was on the back of my '99 did not fail due to design. It was professionally inspected and it turned out that I hit something about the size of my pinkey finger that punctured the tire and zippered it.

Let me say that loud and clear

The Michelin Commander failed due to road debris


Good luck with your tires and check them often :)

[hig4s]

Just because one guy does it doesnt mean its the right thing to do. If he jumped off a cliff would you do it to? I hope your not basing your reasoning on this guy getting lucky so far. Never mind the car tire thing, just the fact you are mixing bias and radials is far from recommended by the guys who design the bikes and tires.

People I strongly recommend that you follow the warnings of the bike builders and tire builders. All that information is well documented at your dealers and on the tire builders websites. They spend millions to find out this information. Dont base it on a few rogue people who do whatever and get lucky.

Yellow wolf is a member of another forum I've been on longer than I've been here, and he can ride a wing up and down the dragon as fast as any non-professional racer can run a full on sportbike. If he says he was leaning the wing as far as on a motorcycle tire and it was not unsafe, I personally will believe him.

I don't see where they spend squat testing touring motorcycle tires, they spend it all on racing applications which are as far removed from full dress touring as car tires are.

Many bikes come standard with radials, including full dress touring bikes, (Like the wing!!)

If it wasn't for a few rouge people, Airplanes, helocopters, and motorcycles wouldn't exist!!

[hig4s]

I would have to see some supporting documentation to accept all of these "Facts".

Let see, I stated 4 facts,, and used the word fact before each one.

which ones are you disputing

That sports car tires are as sticky as the stock tires on the RSV?
That a car tire going in a straight line will have a bigger contact patch than a motorcycle tire?
That car tire sidewalls are designed to flex and higher profile tires will flex more than low profile tires?
and/or
that Pirelli has been making tires with multiple compounds and they could do it on motorcycle tires if they wanted to?

[DragonRider]

My 2 cents, is that they make motorcycle tires for bikes and car tires for cars...............it works for me and thats the way I will keep doing it..........I trust the engineers that build tires and test them to the limits for us so we can be safe in or on whatever we are riding.

For those that want to push the envelope, ride safe and keep the shiny side up.:080402gudl_prv::080402gudl_prv:

[SaltyDawg]

I'm not going to get into this discussion either, as quite frankly I dont care. That being said, the Michelin Commander that was on the back of my '99 did not fail due to design. It was professionally inspected and it turned out that I hit something about the size of my pinkey finger that punctured the tire and zippered it.

Let me say that loud and clear

The Michelin Commander failed due to road debris


Good luck with your tires and check them often :)

I am sure glad you guys are Okay. I have to say that I am also glad to hear that it was not a design failure to your tire. At least those of us who use the Commanders can breath a sigh of relief. I know about road debris I hit a 10" bolt that went through the oil pan on my CB750 10 years ago.

Ride Safe

[Freebird]

Let see, I stated 4 facts,, and used the word fact before each one.

which ones are you disputing

That sports car tires are as sticky as the stock tires on the RSV?
That a car tire going in a straight line will have a bigger contact patch than a motorcycle tire?
That car tire sidewalls are designed to flex and higher profile tires will flex more than low profile tires?
and/or
that Pirelli has been making tires with multiple compounds and they could do it on motorcycle tires if they wanted to?

Sorry, I should have posted differently. My comments are listed within the quoted text.

[tx2sturgis]

Doesnt this whole discussion remind you of a religious argument??

Which god do you pray to, and why?

Many points are based on faith...some claim experience...some pray to the CarTire god and some pray to the MotorcycleTire god.

Seems like some feathers are gettin kinda ruffled...

I know some people personaly who have run the CarTire on a bike, and like it just fine. Others dont want to...whatever.

I wonder what would happen if some sports car guys decided to run bike tires on their high performance Vettes, Porsches, and Lamborginis, just cuz they handle well on bikes? ( 'you seen how those bikes can wheelie?')

Hmm...


I know that as my bikes tires begin to 'square off' due to wear in the middle, the handling gets..less enjoyable. But since it happens slowly, I get used to it. I know when I put new tires on the bike, it handles SO much better. I LIKE that feeling of easily falling into turns.


For now, I'm sticking (no pun intended) with bike tires on my bike, and car tires on my car, ( dont actually OWN a car) and light truck tires on my pickup, and wheel barrow tires on my wheel barrow...and so on. I figure, cant hurt to try to do things right.

[SaltyDawg]

Let see, I stated 4 facts,, and used the word fact before each one.

which ones are you disputing

That sports car tires are as sticky as the stock tires on the RSV?
That a car tire going in a straight line will have a bigger contact patch than a motorcycle tire?
That car tire sidewalls are designed to flex and higher profile tires will flex more than low profile tires?
and/or
that Pirelli has been making tires with multiple compounds and they could do it on motorcycle tires if they wanted to?

No need to get snippy. You claim facts, back them up. We all know the a car tire has a larger contact patch in a straight line, that has not been disputed. What is being disputed is that car tires are not designed to be ridden on their edges and therefore have less contact with the road. Less contact would mean a smaller contact patch when you need it most. One look at the GW picture and that proves your Flex fact to be in dispute.

If car tires were designed to be ridden on their sides then how come race cars are set up with high camber for oval tracks? It's to keep that flat side down and more contact with the track.

[Tom]

I will stick with my Avons..if they wear out I will buy new ones. Everyone be safe. Tom

[Tartan Terror]

Let see, I stated 4 facts,, and used the word fact before each one.

which ones are you disputing

That sports car tires are as sticky as the stock tires on the RSV?
That a car tire going in a straight line will have a bigger contact patch than a motorcycle tire?
That car tire sidewalls are designed to flex and higher profile tires will flex more than low profile tires?
and/or
that Pirelli has been making tires with multiple compounds and they could do it on motorcycle tires if they wanted to?


I agree with Salty, Lets see the facts. Also I would be interested in finding out what you do for a career so we can see why you know more than the professionals. You seem to question them, Myself included, as having no clue.

[Ruffy]

Im going to toss my two cents in here. I have several friends who want to try the car tire thing but have yet to do so. They want increased wear but something bothers them enough to hold off on that idea. I believe that something is called common sense.

If I remember correctly, Roger Bourget designed his choppers with a car tire because there wasnt a fat enough MC tire to fit, however I also remember him stating that the bikes handled better once he was able to get MC tire mfg's to design a MC specific fat tire. Dont ask me to quote the source..I remember reading it in some chopper magazine a few years ago while on a plane.

Now, referring to that exceptional Gold Wing rider....well, lets just say that a fairly large percentage of us cant handle a bike like he does. He does not represent the average schmoe. His riding skills are well above average. Im not saying we are poor riders, but most of us certainly dont possess that kind of riding skill, if you understand what im trying to say.

I have to agree with Tarty on this one. Unless you are hell bent on doing this mod, i'd say, for the average rider, stick with the MC tire. :confused24:

Just my personal opinion. If you have a problem with this...see Zeus:

[kbran]

Im going to toss my two cents in here. I have several friends who want to try the car tire thing but have yet to do so. They want increased wear but something bothers them enough to hold off on that idea. I believe that something is called common sense.

If I remember correctly, Roger Bourget designed his choppers with a car tire because there wasnt a fat enough MC tire to fit, however I also remember him stating that the bikes handled better once he was able to get MC tire mfg's to design a MC specific fat tire. Dont ask me to quote the source..I remember reading it in some chopper magazine a few years ago while on a plane.

Now, referring to that exceptional Gold Wing rider....well, lets just say that a fairly large percentage of us cant handle a bike like he does. He does not represent the average schmoe. His riding skills are well above average. Im not saying we are poor riders, but most of us certainly dont possess that kind of riding skill, if you understand what im trying to say.

I have to agree with Tarty on this one. Unless you are hell bent on doing this mod, i'd say, for the average rider, stick with the MC tire. :confused24:

Just my personal opinion. If you have a problem with this...see Zeus:

Guess I'll have to agree. Don't want to see Zeus, he looks mean.

[AmnChode]

First off, I am a supporter of testing CTs on bikes....I have seen rather nice results across alot of bikes using them, from Valkyries, Wings, VTXs, and others.

With that said, my next statement may appear biased, but so be it. I trust the tire engineers about as much as I trust oil companies/car manufacturers. To say they do everything in OUR best interest is to be naive. They are out to make money and as much as possible. If car manufacturers made actual fuel effcient engines, oil companies would be screwed. As such, pay a little kick back here and there and *poof*, 20mpg cars vs 50...The Prius getting 50mpg is not a real achievement considering a 15-20yr old Geo Metro did the same thing (or damn close). Same principle applies in Tires except now it is the companies themselves preventing progress.

Tartan asks us to ask them whether it would safe to do it.....hmmm, why would a company that is shafting me for a tire that cost twice as much and lasts a quarter as long ever tell me that another tire that cost half as much and last four times as long is safe. That would be like slitting their own throat. Ask the bike manufacturer? You mean the same ones cutting deals with the tires companies for the tires to begin with. The same ones that also explicitly state pulling a trailer on a bike is extremely dangerous (that seemed to stop alot of you:whistling:). Their opinion is going to be sided on the safe side of liabilty. It is safer to say no, then yes....regardless of actual fact or opinion on the subject.

And I keep seeing the MT softer than CT.... click here... (http://vtxdarksiders.forumotion.com/general-discussion-f6/durometer-test-on-205-and-dunniepics-added-t557.htm?highlight=durometer) nuff said.

What is being disputed is that car tires are not designed to be ridden on their edges and therefore have less contact with the road. Less contact would mean a smaller contact patch when you need it most.

While the contact patch is less then going straight, the real question is whether the contact patch is actually less that the contact patch on the MT. We have to keep in mind that the contact patch is rather small on MTs to begin with. Now, I have seen where if you lay a CT and a MT on the sides simulating a lean and run them through a puddle of water, then look at the track as they leave it, the CT will have just as big of a contact patch as the MT...if not bigger in some cases. Now, while this is more of a layman's way of testing, it is still effective....

[flb_78]

An instructor for the MSF advanced course here in Texas runs a car tire on his Valkyrie and he is also considered to be one of the top Valkyrie riders in the country and has won competitions proving it and he did it on a car tire. He actually is now riding all over Texas teaching instructors for the MSF courses.

That's my expert.

This guy here may be considered an expert.

http://lifeisaroad.com/stories/2004/10/27/theDarkSide.html

He has plenty of experience with running a car and has ridden all the the States and through Canada.

Running a car tire is no more dangerous then raising the bike with leveling links, lowering the rear, dropping the forks in the trees, or running a skinnier tire up front. All of it affects the handling of the machine in one way or another.

According to you logic, if Yamaha thought any of that was needed, then they would of built it that way.

I went to Nashville Auto Diesel College and graduated with honors in the 96 percentile of my class. I've been a diesel mechanic now for 10 years. I also worked in a commercial tire shop for class 8 over the road semis, so yeah, I know a thing or 2.

[Freebird]

This isn't going to end folks. Everybody just has to make their own decisions I guess. I would just say that if you have ANY doubt, don't do it.

[CrazyHorse]

This has been an entertaining post so far. Oh and I hate linked brakes.

[hig4s]

No need to get snippy. You claim facts, back them up. We all know the a car tire has a larger contact patch in a straight line, that has not been disputed. What is being disputed is that car tires are not designed to be ridden on their edges and therefore have less contact with the road. Less contact would mean a smaller contact patch when you need it most. One look at the GW picture and that proves your Flex fact to be in dispute.

If car tires were designed to be ridden on their sides then how come race cars are set up with high camber for oval tracks? It's to keep that flat side down and more contact with the track.

I'm not trying to be snippy, please don't read into the words something that isn't there. I never said car tires were designed to be ridden on their edges, I even stated that because of the side wall flex, the tire will remain flat right up until it can flex no more. That would definitely make them not a good thing on any bike that was to be leaned to extremes. But RSV have what lean angle before hard part hit the ground. Once hard parts hit and start lifting the tire off the ground, what kind of tire it is becomes irrelevant.

I have also stated that I wouldn't use a car tire, but I try to remain open minded as the to possibility, seeing as car tires have made amazing progress in both durability and traction over the last 30 years, motorcycle racing tires have made amazing progress in traction over the last 30 years, but cruiser and touring tires don't seem to be any better than the tires I had on my 78 Yamaha XS650 back in 78.

As far as those that want to know what I do, that has little to do with anything.
And experts can be wrong, experts from big corporations are always, by corporate direction, overly conservative. Yamaha states right in the owners manual that any tire other than the stock Bridgestones or the alternate Dunlops are not tested and should not be used. Virtually everyone here is using tires the experts say you should not use.

Tire companies will not release their secret rubber compound information, but the Bridgestone Potenza RE050s on my Acura were definitely softer than the tire on my RSV, and they lasted 40k on my car. I have tried to figure the lbs per sq in of tire patch but it just is not that easy. But it sure seems to me that as motorcyclist we are being taken advantage of and that motorcycle tires could be made to last if the manufacturers wanted them to.

[BuddyRich]

:doh::doh::doh::doh:
Jeeze, And I thought Oil threads were long ones. :rotf::rotf:
Guess we can group tires in there too.

Wish I had had some knobbies the other day...

[hig4s]

This isn't going to end folks. Everybody just has to make their own decisions I guess. I would just say that if you have ANY doubt, don't do it.


And that I agree with 100% :clap2:

[hipshot]

REPLY #65!!!!!!!!

seems to me , and i have stayed out of this fracus, that we have just about "beat this dead horse", into a pulp!


professional TIRE dealers, say NO!
professional "gamblers ", say yes!
don't that just about sum it up?????
nuff said!
JUST JT

[wizard]

Does being a salesman, or even a owner of a tire shop make one a professional. I really don't think so. I'm a buyer and I work with manufacturing company's such as Honeywell, P&F, Carling, etc. I work with many engineers from these company's, to design and and supply many manufacturers, both private and government. I am not a professional in any respect when it comes to the products I buy. A engineer will not sign off any item that has been designed for a specific function for any thing other than what it was designed for. If a manufacturer in the private sector wishes for a switch or contacter, we have customer service reps which can recommend an item which will meet their needs. But, even they are not the pros. All we can do is pass on the information we get from these engineers. Its not my intention to sound like a know it all or to be snippy, but I do wonder and question what makes you a professional when it comes to what will work on anything if you have not engineered or designed the item and have not even tried it for another purpose. I know that there are quite a few professionals on this blog that know what I'm referring to, and can understand why I would ask this question. So don't take this question for anything more than it is. I'm sure you know a lot about tires, its how you make a living, your knowledge base will be quite a bit more than most others when it comes to applications recommended by your vendors, but it sounds like you will not go anything farther than what your told, just as I am limited by my vendors

[Tartan Terror]

Does being a salesman, or even a owner of a tire shop make one a professional. I really don't think so. I'm a buyer and I work with manufacturing company's such as Honeywell, P&F, Carling, etc. I work with many engineers from these company's, to design and and supply many manufacturers, both private and government. I am not a professional in any respect when it comes to the products I buy. A engineer will not sign off any item that has been designed for a specific function for any thing other than what it was designed for. If a manufacturer in the private sector wishes for a switch or contacter, we have customer service reps which can recommend an item which will meet their needs. But, even they are not the pros. All we can do is pass on the information we get from these engineers. Its not my intention to sound like a know it all or to be snippy, but I do wonder and question what makes you a professional when it comes to what will work on anything if you have not engineered or designed the item and have not even tried it for another purpose. I know that there are quite a few professionals on this blog that know what I'm referring to, and can understand why I would ask this question. So don't take this question for anything more than it is. I'm sure you know a lot about tires, its how you make a living, your knowledge base will be quite a bit more than most others when it comes to applications recommended by your vendors, but it sounds like you will not go anything farther than what your told, just as I am limited by my vendors


It makes us alot more of a professional than someone who is shooting from the hip. Its like this, We make it a point of researching and talking to the manufactures as it is our ass on the line. If I sell you a product that is wrong or dangerous and that product fails guess who is liable? You got it, us therefore it is our job to know what we are talking about not only for safety but to protect our livelyhoods. Im the one who gets sued so yes we make it a point of knowing our stuff. Is that good enough. Thats why we have the access to all the manufacturers that you may not be about to get to easily. If I didnt know all this I would long since have been out of business. I regularly attend seminars and trainings just for this purpose.

[wizard]

My point, exactly. Thank you.

[hipshot]

My point, exactly. Thank you.

you're welcome, len!!
now i 've done forgot who's side i'm on!
lol
just jt

[tx2sturgis]

Can we change the name of this thread to:

Ego..are you 'TIRED' of it?


:stirthepot:

[dragerman]

:detective: Perhaps we should take the question outside this forum;

http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/mythbusters/talk/talk.html

[Squeeze]

I agree on it has been said everything.



BUT (there always has to be a but)


to reiterate my Question ...,

...

Beside that, my question would be, how come that not a single Car Tire Rider hasn't had an Accident or was going down ??

I just can't believe that nobody went down. That is a utmost Probability and against all Numbers. Not that i would say a Car Tire would have to take the Blame of any Accident happening nor it may have contributed to such an Event, but i never read about any Mishap or anything likely. Just makes me wonder.

[Tartan Terror]

I agree on it has been said everything.



BUT (there always has to be a but)


to reiterate my Question ...,

...

Beside that, my question would be, how come that not a single Car Tire Rider hasn't had an Accident or was going down ??

I just can't believe that nobody went down. That is a utmost Probability and against all Numbers. Not that i would say a Car Tire would have to take the Blame of any Accident happening nor it may have contributed to such an Event, but i never read about any Mishap or anything likely. Just makes me wonder.


Im sure there has been and Im sure you can find that on the net too but the one thing Im sure of is this crowd wont tell you about it. They only want to state the few sources that prove they are right. I think I may need to do a little research on this case.

[BuddyRich]

If I put 4 motorcycle tires on my car can I get it to lean in the turns:rotf::rotf::rotf:

[AmnChode]

Tartan....The problem that I tried to bring up earlier is that even with all the info you get, at all the seminars and all the training.....you are still getting the info from the same companies that are screwing us on the tires to begin with. You are implying that you only know what they have told you to know.

But here I'll give a fine example of them flat out BSing us. Click here.... (http://www.dunlopmotorcycle.com/infocenter_tiretips.asp?id=27#tip). 3rd bullet from the bottom and take note of what I have bolded here:
For 15-inch motorcycle replacement tires, never mount on a 15-inch diameter passenger car tire rim. Mount only on a 15 M/C motorcycle rim. These passenger car and motorcycle rims actually differ in diameter.
Straight from the tire manufacturer...

Now if that was the case, the tire flb_78 showed pictures of in the first post of this very thread should have never mounted. But it did...why because the measurements are identical as well as the bead. Anybody with a doubt can go measure themselves...BUT here Dunlop blatantly said they differ in diameter...Click here (http://www.vtxoa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1618274&highlight=#1618274) for a thread that brings up this very issue where a gentleman and a few guys at the tire shop he mounted his CT at took the measurements (i.e., on of those shops full of tire professionals such as yourself)...So, why am I supposed to trust the manufacturers again?

[Tartan Terror]

To answer the rim size question the bead area is the area in question. On car tire beads vs the beads on a mc the shape of the bead differs just like the shape of a tube type bead vs a tubeless bead differs.

Im loving how you think that you have convinced yourselves that the tire companies are screwing you. If thats your argument to justify doing something purely insane go ahead but dont try to rope others into the idea that this is a good idea. Its dangerous.

Im also loving how you think you are discrediting the professionals saying that even thought we do this day in and dayout we still know nothing. Just curious what color the sky is in your world.

For all the searching I did I only found this guy on the wing and everything else is based on what he wrote. So just because he did it its right? Apparently there isnt much info supporting car tires on bikes either.

You know in in the tire business but so is my Father for 48 years. About 20 years ago he was called to be a witness as a Tire professional ( Apparently the courts reguard us as expert witnesses). The case was just this, the case was against an insurance company by a bike rider who used a car tire. Claim was denied and he wanted paid. the only question he was asked was if the tire in question was a car tire. He answered yes and was excused. Crash wasnt for the tire but the case was dismissed. Guy got nothing.

People use your brains and use the right tires for safety and never mind the paranoia of tire companies supposedly screwing us. We face enough dangers, why add to them!

[SaltyDawg]

The problem that I tried to bring up earlier is that even with all the info you get, at all the seminars and all the training.....you are still getting the info from the same companies that are screwing us on the tires to begin with.

Just curious as to how you think they are screwing us? Do you think they are price gouging? If so just exactly what do you think your life is worth? Is it worth it to save a few bucks? I go through 2 rear tires a year. A whopping $250.00 - $300.00. Heck I know people who spend more than that on cigarette's in one month, and those things Will Kill You.

It's worth the piece of mind knowing that if God forbid something should happen to me while riding I don't have to worry about my insurance company not paying off because I had a car tire on my mc, leaving my family destitute.

To each his own.

Ride it like you stole it.

And to the person who wrote that these bikes don't get far enough on their sides while riding to ride on the edge of a car tire has never ridden with the folks I have ridden with. Scraping floorboards happens more than you think.

[AmnChode]

To answer the rim size question the bead area is the area in question. On car tire beads vs the beads on a mc the shape of the bead differs just like the shape of a tube type bead vs a tubeless bead differs.

Again, if that was the case, it should have never mounted...but it did. But this is completly avoiding the point I made that Dunlop mentioned the diameter of the rims (and ONLY the diameter) were different, and they are not...

Im loving how you think that you have convinced yourselves that the tire companies are screwing you. If thats your argument to justify doing something purely insane go ahead but dont try to rope others into the idea that this is a good idea. Its dangerous.
If you can tell me how they aren't and you may gain some ground here, but everything points in the direction that they are. There is nothing too special about a MC tire to justify twice the price for something that last only 1/4 of the milage. Especially with no innovation into them in say, I dunno, last 20-30 years of so....but those prices keep climbing. As was pointed out ealier, there have been leaps and bounds for car tires and racing tires, but NOTHING for a cruiser/touring tire. A simple rubber bi-compound solution would work...harder in the center to last the miles and softer on the sides for the twisties.

However, these are not the only reasons. Some of us are looking for ways to, god forbid, increase the safety. As has been reported by damn near anyone who has ever done it, they see/feel no loss of traction in curves but see massive traction increases on the straights, highway driving, wet road conditions, and more importantly to us in particular, braking as it does help prevent the rear wheel from locking up. If that is insane, call me a looney...

Im also loving how you think you are discrediting the professionals saying that even thought we do this day in and dayout we still know nothing. Just curious what color the sky is in your world.
I'm not trying to discredit you, but by god there are other people in this world that work in the tire business other than you. You tell us to find mechanics and/or people in the business to back us up and when we throw them back at you (or is one themself, as in flb_78's case), we are suddenly trying to discredit you. That shop that took the same exact measurements are tire professionals, too. They do this day in and day out, as well. And they also confirmed that 15" is 15"...

For all the searching I did I only found this guy on the wing and everything else is based on what he wrote. So just because he did it its right? Apparently there isnt much info supporting car tires on bikes either.

Funny...First thing I found doing a search was Daniel Meyer's site. He rides a Valkyrie, written fours books, and has over 100,000 miles of riding experience on car tires. But I didn't start searching until I saw this thread (http://www.vtxoa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=167959) over at the VTXOA site...It covered running CTs on VTX 1300s and refenced another thread (http://www.vtxoa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=138135) on the same site about doing it on VTX 1800s....But doing all that reading I learned that the Wingers and Valks had been doing it for years....I also learned old Harley and chopper riders did it 30 years or so back because they didn't have anything else that would fit what they wanted to do. It wasn't until this thread that I got to read up on YellowWolf's experience on it. I had seen video of him riding his Wing down the Dragon, but never knew he had tried it on a CT (thanks, flb_78 ;))...This doesn't include the forum dedicated to the subject (http://vtxdarksiders.forumotion.com/index.htm) that can be found in the links of many of the riders in the VTX Darkside threads...This is all being researched as a collective of riders and their experiences. Tire companies aren't going to do it as it would lead to a loss of profit. Bike manufacturers aren't as it would cause a conflict with the tire manufacturers, thus causeing issues with the deals they have. Pretty much leaves riders, doesn't it...


You know in in the tire business but so is my Father for 48 years. About 20 years ago he was called to be a witness as a Tire professional ( Apparently the courts reguard us as expert witnesses). The case was just this, the case was against an insurance company by a bike rider who used a car tire. Claim was denied and he wanted paid. the only question he was asked was if the tire in question was a car tire. He answered yes and was excused. Crash wasnt for the tire but the case was dismissed. Guy got nothing.
Yeah...I remember a case going to court about some woman who ordered coffee and won a lawsuit when she spilled it on her lap while driving away. Never said the court didn't do stupid things...

[pegscraper]

They aren't price gouging per se. They are lifetime-of-the-tire gouging. They can make tires last longer than they do and they know it. And I know it.

Indeed, pegscraping happens all the time. :hurts:

[AmnChode]

Just curious as to how you think they are screwing us? Do you think they are price gouging? If so just exactly what do you think your life is worth? Is it worth it to save a few bucks? I go through 2 rear tires a year. A whopping $250.00 - $300.00. Heck I know people who spend more than that on cigarette's in one month, and those things Will Kill You.

It's worth the piece of mind knowing that if God forbid something should happen to me while riding I don't have to worry about my insurance company not paying off because I had a car tire on my mc, leaving my family destitute.

To each his own.

Ride it like you stole it.

And to the person who wrote that these bikes don't get far enough on their sides while riding to ride on the edge of a car tire has never ridden with the folks I have ridden with. Scraping floorboards happens more than you think.

IMHO, yes I think they are gouging. The are selling us a tire that last 1/4 as long for twice the price that hasn't had any sort of innovation in the 20-30 years. They have us where they want us, and they know it. As to asking how much my life is worth is a flawed question. Riding by it's nature is dangerous and if we really wanted to be safer on the road, we drive a SUV or something.

Let me point out...I still ride MC tires...and am planning on putting a new set of Avons on here shortly. And am just not naive enough to think that Tire Companies are looking to my best interest more so than their profits. I support the research being done here and am not closed minded about it. Possibly in the future, after I get some more riding time under my belt, I might try a CT...

[SaltyDawg]

They aren't price gouging per se. They are lifetime-of-the-tire gouging. They can make tires last longer than they do and they know it. And I know it.

Indeed, pegscraping happens all the time. :hurts:

I don't know, I thought 20,000 miles out of a rear tire was pretty darn good. Considering it's on a drive wheel and is one of only 2 tires that stop a bike that weighs a half a ton with a rider on it.

[SaltyDawg]

Again, if that was the case, it should have never mounted...but it did. But this is completly avoiding the point I made that Dunlop mentioned the diameter of the rims (and ONLY the diameter) were different, and they are not...

A 1 1/16 inch wrench will fit on a 26mm nut with a little play, that doesn't make it safe to use and it will eventually round off the corners of the nut. So just because the tire mounted does not by any means mean that the bead is sealed correctly.

[Tartan Terror]

You can mount a 16.5 tire on a 16" wheel but tell me its the safe thing to do. Sure that tire went on the wheel but is it seated right and does the bead have the correct profile? I truely doubt it and you may not have a problem but if you do all they will tell you is go scratch.

Many companies make car tires that do not make bike tires. If it was truely was safe to put these tires on bikes dont you think they would be trying to sell them as a new market for them? They know it isnt safe or advisable so they wont.

[pegscraper]

Twenty thousand miles out of a tire is absolutely terrible. And I don't know of anyone who has gotten even that much out of a MT. I suppose you do, but precious few get anywhere near that. Fourteen thousand is more like it, and some don't even get that. I routinely get 80,000 miles out of tires, and I've gotten more than that on occasion. On my cars, yes, and they weigh a lot more than twice what my bike weighs. There's no excuse for MTs wearing out as fast as they do. But why should a manufacturer ever put out a tire that lasts longer? They have us all buying them at the current rate. And as long as all us happy campers are buying them, there's no way they'll make a tire that lasts longer. It would only kill their own income. They're gouging us and they know it. And I know it.

[wizard]

"To answer the rim size question the bead area is the area in question. On car tire beads vs the beads on a mc the shape of the bead differs just like the shape of a tube type bead vs a tubeless bead differs."

Its been my experience, running tubeless tires on my Triumphs, on the track, and in the mountains, for many years, there are absolutly no ill affects. Are you also saying you can't mount a tubeless tire on a laced wheel?

[dray]

for the most part i liked the way this thread started now i hate to even come and look i for one would like to know how the ones who have them like the tires and for the ones who just put them on what they think after running them for a few weeks
i have read the I like them and the I'm thinking about it and also the it should not be done why spend all day every day in here telling every one their wrong or stupid make your point and drop it why argue no one is going to change anyones mind and your only bringing your selfs down to the others level of bickering

if i don't like a thread i just don't go back and read it as i have better things to do then spend all day worrying if some one See's things my way if this was the case we would all be driving a Chevy short-box truck painted black its just not going to happen

ok so now i have said my peace maybe its time to start a new thread about how do you like your car tire on the scoot I would like to know !


Dray:15_8_211[1]:

[AmnChode]

Sorry, Dray (and any others who feel the same way)...as I know was no help in that cause. :(

[SaltyDawg]

IMHO, yes I think they are gouging. The are selling us a tire that last 1/4 as long for twice the price that hasn't had any sort of innovation in the 20-30 years. They have us where they want us, and they know it. As to asking how much my life is worth is a flawed question. Riding by it's nature is dangerous and if we really wanted to be safer on the road, we drive a SUV or something.

Let me point out...I still ride MC tires...and am planning on putting a new set of Avons on here shortly. And am just not naive enough to think that Tire Companies are looking to my best interest more so than their profits. I support the research being done here and am not closed minded about it. Possibly in the future, after I get some more riding time under my belt, I might try a CT...

Innovations do happen in the MC industry or else there wouldn't be Elite III's, Avon Venoms, and Michilen Commanders. Eight years ago I couldn't find a mc tire that would last me 8,000 miles and now I am getting 20,000 out of my commander. Which by the way is the only tire I will put on my RSV. I have tried, dunlops, Bridgestone, Continental, Metzler, and Avon Venoms and none gave me the comfort, stickyness, and durability that the Commander does.

When there are as many Motorcycles on the road as cars I imagine the prices would come down. When CD players first came out they cost thousands of dollars and now you can get one for ten bucks at the corner store.

[tx2sturgis]

I'd like the number of that Michelin Commander for the Venture..I tried those several years ago on my Ultra, and I didnt like the handling once it broke in...and it didnt last anywhere NEAR 20,000 miles!


One thing I'd like to add is that some of the cost of producing motorcycle tires is the overhead in legal liability lawsuits...its a bit like buying an 8 foot stepladder.

There is probably about 5 dollars in materials in a stepladder, and maybe 10 dollars in labor, and of course some profit for the manufacturer, transportation costs, and markup for the retailer, still, a lot of the cost is legal liablity. Everytime someone sues the manufacturer for an injury, the price to you and me goes up, and the lawyers get richer. Thats why a ladder worth about 15 bucks costs 120 dollars...and is practically plastered with warning labels and stickers.

This is just an example...but its the same with MC tires...not much in materials, or labor to make it, but a bunch of the money made is to help pay for lawsuits...this is one reason its nearly impossible to find an American made helmet anymore...too much liability...people LOVE to sue! The manufacturers have to make a large profit, to help offset the occasional BIG lawsuit, that can reach millions of dollars, depending on what the jurys award to a litigant and his lawyer.

Several years ago, a rider was using the throttle lock on his new Harley, and 'forgot' to loosen it when he exited a highway, and crashed into something...i dont remember the details...what I DO remember is that he won millions, and is now riding a Harley again. The lawyer made the point in court that it was a 'faulty' design...even though the Harley operators manual clearly says it is only for use as an 'aid' to cold weather idling...something to that effect.

Of course, we take the tires we can buy for granted, but if the manufacturers ever 'go under', because of lawsuits on a product that they arent making a big profit on, then we will be buying ChingShen tires made in China.

If you dont think it could happen, then just recall what nearly happened to Firestone/Bridgestone a few years ago, when Ford 'Exploders' were having too many accidents while running them.

I'm NOT sticking up for the manufacturers, but I'm a realist. We all want cheap, good, long lasting tires. But it aint gonna happen.

Those riders who wish to 'buck' the trend are helping all of us, by experimenting with something not everyone is comfortable with. More power to them.

Lets all keep this in perspective. When the rubber meets the road, it comes down to this:

Ride what you WANT to ride. Its YOUR decision. Tires are like Helmets, Kevlar Jeans, armoured riding suits, or whatever, its YOUR choice. I LIKE it that way.

[dharnie]

I read 'dark side' article. Anyone try different size than 155/80R15 on RSV? Or maybe this is 'the' right size for RSV? I'm ready to give it a try!

[SaltyDawg]

Like the energizer bunny. It keeps going and going.

[flb_78]

I can drag my floorboards through turns now. Bike hasn't exploded yet and I haven't died in a fiery crash.

I'm liking the tire more and more everyday.

Tire has the same pressure when I mounted it, bead is fine. I should have taken a picture of the bead from the Metz and for the BFG. They are the same.

155/80R15 is the first tire I've tried. After mounting this tire, I believe you can go wider. Next feasible size is 175/55R15 or 175/65R15. There is only 1 165 out there that I can find, but it doesn't look like a quality tire. I may see if I can find a used 175 to mount and mock up to check for clearances.

To everyone who is truly interested in this, I thank you for your interest.

To everyone who is against this, thank you for you input. We have heard arguments on both sides and I feel that anymore discussion pro and con, back and forth, throwing the same words at each other, is doing no good. People will either be interested and try it, or they won't.

I tried it, I like it. You're not going to convince me that it's dangerous. At least no more dangerous then riding a motorcycle to begin with.

It was a brave man who ate the first oyster.

[tx2sturgis]

I can drag my floorboards through turns now. Bike hasn't exploded yet and I haven't died in a fiery crash.

I'm liking the tire more and more everyday.


155/80R15 is the first tire I've tried. After mounting this tire, I believe you can go wider. Next feasible size is 175/55R15 or 175/65R15. There is only 1 165 out there that I can find, but it doesn't look like a quality tire. I may see if I can find a used 175 to mount and mock up to check for clearances.

Have you measured the clearance between the driveshaft and the tire? I'm curious about that.



I tried it, I like it. You're not going to convince me that it's dangerous. At least no more dangerous then riding a motorcycle to begin with.

It was a brave man who ate the first oyster.It was a brave man who ate the first chicken egg, too. "Hey Krogg, look what just fell outta that birds ass...I think I'll EAT it!!"

:whistling:


Hey I'll be in Amarillo this weekend...maybe I could get a look-see at that tire.

I'll pm you my number if your willing to let me buy ya a beer!

[flb_78]

Sure, swing on by. Im free all day Sunday. Girlfriend has to work. :cool10:

As for clearances, check out this pic.

[tx2sturgis]

Do you know about the biker breakfast at Boondocks? Sundays at about 10:30 to 11:30 or so.

My Black Venture will be there.

Cmon in and say hey!

If you cant make it for breakfast, then swing by after noon, I should still be there...somtimes we go on short rides after breakfast, usually at about 12:30 or so...

[Steve S]

OYSTERS???????

Now person would have to be totally out of thier mind to eat an oyster. That is so unsafe. Eating one oyster can lead to eating several oysters. Eating several oysters is expensive and can lead to drinking large quanities of beer. Drinking large quanities of beer causes a man to have a lapse in judgement:dancefool:. Couple that with the fact that oysters can make you amourous, and you will have a situation that can lead to chasing women ceaselessly:innocent:. Chasing women ceaselessly causes a man to be without enough funds to fully enjoy outfitting his bike:crying:. It will also create a problem with having enough time to ride as women want your undivided attention during the chasing phase. The chasing phase can lead to the marriage phase. And EVERY man knows that the marriage phase leads to the total loss of every freedom that man has ever known:bang head:. Therefore I feel that it is just totally insane to eat an oyster......:stirthepot:




Boy do I LOVE oysters...


EAT,,, er RIDE SAFE

[Grey Ghost]

flb_78, will you please post what you find about the 175/55 or 65? I will be replacing my rear tire soon and I have been looking at the car tire option. That's how I found this forum in the first place.

Thanks,
Jeff

[tx2sturgis]

OYSTERS???????


Boy do I LOVE oysters...


EAT,,, er RIDE SAFE

Raw ones?


You dont really EAT raw oysters...you just kindve give them permission to enter your body. Like a cold slimy slug finding a warm place to crawl into.

Well, thats my story and I'm sticking to it.

[hipshot]

as far as the "amorous" thing goes, it's all a big lie!!!


last dozen that i ate, only ONE of 'em worked!
:)
jusat jt

[dharnie]

flb_78 Maybe you posted here - - -soooo much to read to find any real facts - if any at all!!! -- what pressure in CT & how does it absorb the bumps vs MT?

[Squeeze]

Regarding only the technical Side of this Issue, i wouldn't want to go to a /65 or /55 Ratio as a Biginner.

These are really radial Tires and the Sidewall doesn't flex much. The /80 Ratio will allow cornering with some Effort, but the a lower Ratio wont allow much of cornering without very much Weight transfering of the Rider(Kneeslider). Countersteering will not be enough in to get the Bike in a Corner. Also, i believe(!!!) that such lower Ratio wouldn't allow the Thread to stay on the Road.

If someone is willing to give a Car Tire a Try, stay with a higher Ratio as /80 are. A Low Profile Tire is something that should be tested by an expierenced Car Tire Rider.

[flb_78]

The lower ratio will allow for more stable handling. The Goldwing riders mostly use low profile Run-Flat tires now for the stiffer sidewalls for better handling.

[flb_78]

flb_78 Maybe you posted here - - -soooo much to read to find any real facts - if any at all!!! -- what pressure in CT & how does it absorb the bumps vs MT?

Im running 40 psi and the CT takes the bumps much better then the MT.

[wild hair 39]

ok: i'm sold,one tire on the front,one tire on the back,you guys made it vary clear,the tires i use is,my choice,also my a$$$$$:bighug:

[2WHEELSFORME]

Man I love this CT on my VTX. Several thousand miles and no noticable wear. Corners just fine as far as this bike will lean over. Would not put one on a sport bike but works fine for fat cruisers and fat touring bikes. Yea I know some of you are racers and really push these bikes and you need the high performance stuff to keep up with your skill level.
:rotf:
http://bigbikeriders.com/photopost/data/500/2508tire_and_tag_4_.JPG

[sonat]

The lower ratio will allow for more stable handling. The Goldwing riders mostly use low profile Run-Flat tires now for the stiffer sidewalls for better handling.

Hi
just thought I would jump in here and give my impression of a CT on my Wing. in short, there will never be another MT on the rear of my 1800 Wing. I run a Goodyear Ultra Grip run flat and I absolutely love it. there are many on my Wing board that run a non- run flat tire and like them. I don't think my wife would allow me to remove it cause she like the ride as well. I'm sure not trying to convince others to fellow my advice, that is for each of us to decide for our selves. but as for me, I'm sure very glade I did try it. good luck with your choice in a CT, if you are like me, you won't go back.

[Duck]

Thought I would jump in to a really non-controversial thread for my 2nd post :whistling:

Here's a good shot of a CT on the road.

YouTube - Riding the Dark Side

FWIW - I have no strong opinion either way, and have never run a CT on an MC, I just like to keep an open mind.


Duck

[flb_78]

Thought I would jump in to a really non-controversial thread for my 2nd post :whistling:

Here's a good shot of a CT on the road.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQtlt-HFFoo

FWIW - I have no strong opinion either way, and have never run a CT on an MC, I just like to keep an open mind.

Duck


This is the real ending to the above video because it's not possible to put a car tire on a motorcycle and the only thing it will result in is a giant fiery crash, global warming, the clubbing of baby seals, al gore to become president and ingrown toenails.:rotf:

YouTube - 2007 Burning Man FireBall Explosion

[wizard]

flb_78, will you please post what you find about the 175/55 or 65? I will be replacing my rear tire soon and I have been looking at the car tire option. That's how I found this forum in the first place.

Thanks,
Jeff

Hello Jeff,
What tire did you go to. My Metzler is at 8500 miles now and going fast. I'm looking at the Kumho Solus KR21 165/80R15 or the Kumho Power Star. Both are 165, and should leave me a 1/4" clearance between the shaft and the side well.

[LSupina]

Put a B.F. Goodrich 155/75 R15 on my 2005 RSV about two weeks ago. Mounting wasn't any harder than most Dunlop motorcycle tires I've mounted. As for riding, the first day was interesting as I got used to a different feel from the road and wore off the mold relese agent. Now I have over 500 miles and I'll not be going back to a motorcycle tire unless they make one that can touch the improvement I have experinced with my new dark side ride. The ride is way smoother than any motorcycle tire. The stopping power is TOTALLY AWESOME! Straight-line stability in the lovely Texas Panhandle winds is superb, but most amazing to me has been how much better the bike corners now that I have spent time and got used to the feel. Yes, you read that right, once you are accustomed to the car tire's different manners, you'll soon find you can push a big rig into corners and accelerate out of them like you never could before. Oh, did I mention how great the car tire handles in the rain? Yes, it did rain here in Amarillo last week and WOW, the CT sticks in the wet too.

[timk]

I've been thinking about 4 motorcycle tires on my car. Has anyone tried this??????:auto::thumbsup:

[foxman]

Has anyone put a ct on a first gen?:confused24:

[flb_78]

Well, so far I have 3225 miles on my tire since I installed it. It's wearing very well for me. Most tires only last me about 8000 miles. If anything, the tire is wearing faster on the center then the edges, but I've read many a post about how this happens on other darksiders and it is fairly normal. I can ride long sweepers in the triple digits, I can drag floorboards in tight turns. Rear brake does not lock up unless I really stand on the brake. Wet traction is vastly improved.

[wizard]

What air pressure are you running? Whats the max printed on the tire? I haven't received my tire yet. I saw on a website that the tire is rated at over 1000 lbs, which I figure is good enough for the Venture! I don't see any motorcycle tires rated at that.

[flb_78]

What air pressure are you running? Whats the max printed on the tire? I haven't received my tire yet. I saw on a website that the tire is rated at over 1000 lbs, which I figure is good enough for the Venture! I don't see any motorcycle tires rated at that.

I am running 40psi. That is 5lbs higher then the max, but it handles better. Lowell ran his at 35psi at first, but he now is also running 40psi and likes it better. The tire is rated at 1100lbs, 300 more then any motorcycle tire that will fit the Venture.

[gibvel]

Okay, just to let you know, I know I probably won't change any one's mind, pro or con with this but here's what I did.

Everyone here is spouting this and that about what they learned on other forums about car tires on motorcycles. True these people have done it and are satisfied and haven't had any problems that we know of. The one person on here who has some expertise in this field has been poo pooed and "lost credibility". So, why not go to the horses mouth. The people who design and build these things.

I wrote to BF Goodrich, Dunlop, Michelin and Bridgestone and asked their opinions on the subject. 3 or the 4 manufacture both car and motorcycle tires, one does not. I would have written to Avon as well but there was no contact information or form on their site.

The first to weigh in was Dunlop and here's what the gentleman that wrote back had to say:


Mark,

Thank you for taking the time to contact us with your motorcycle tire
questions. It is considered a bad practice to mount/use a passenger car
tire on a motorcycle. The geometry of a passenger car radial (PCR) rim is
different from that of a motorcycle (M/C) rim. Mounting a PCR tire on a
M/C wheel would increase the chances of bead dislodgement. Typically, a
PCR tire would use three or four compounds while a M/C tire would contain
seven or eight. The M/C tire requires these specialized compounds for its
unique application. Most certainly, the rider would sacrifice wet weather
performance. The biggest risk would be performance at camber. The
relatively flat PCR profile would exhibit poor handling compared to a M/C
tire. The M/C tire profile is specifically designed to provide a large
foot print at all camber angles. Again, the reduced foot print of a PCR
tire at camber will reduce the size of the contact patch and result in
reduced grip. This reduced footprint would be quite dangerous, especially
in wet conditions. There are also a multitude of other performance
criteria that have never been evaluated as it is just too dangerous to
conduct a actual vehicle test. Chances are there would see a substantial
degradation in high speed stability both in straight line and camber with a
PCR tire.

As for the car tire to motorcycle tire comparison, we must first make sure
that we are comparing apples to apples. When you think of it, the vast
majority of motorcycles are high performance vehicles compared to most
cars. Consider that you rarely see a motorcycle with less than ''H''
speed-rated tires. By comparison, the vast majority of cars ride on
non-speed-rated tires or very low speed rated tires. Power-to-weight ratio
and speed are big factors in respect to tire wear. Unfortunately, when
many people compare mileage, they do so with a family sedan and a much
higher performance motorcycle. Another significant factor in this
comparison is the size of the tire's contact footprint. In the case of a
car, the footprint is much larger and there are four, not two tires
contacting the pavement. You must keep in mind that virtually the entire
width of the relatively flat tread of a car is in contact with the road all
of the time. A car remains upright, even when cornering. This results in
a much smaller contact footprint for a motorcycle tire. High
power-to-weight ratio, speed, size of footprint and other aspects explain
why motorcycle tires tend wear out quicker than car tires.

If you were to compare a motorcycle tire against a high-performance car
tire, for a Porsche as an example, this would allow for a much closer
comparison. The power-to-weight ratio and speeds are closer even while
allowing for the much larger contact patch times four (x 4). Tires fitted
to these types of vehicles generally provide 10,000 - 20,000 miles of
service before wear out, much like a motorcycle tire. Throw in the fact
that motorcycle tires can not be rotated and you'll soon see that
motorcycle tires do a yeoman's job of delivering both performance, mileage
and safety.

To obtain the best mileage from motorcycle tires, please observe the
following guidelines: obey the speed limit; avoid quick acceleration and
hard braking; maintain recommended tire pressures; and do not overload your
bike or tow a trailer.



Paul

There you have it for what it's worth. I'll submit any other emails I get from the other companies I inquired of.

[dragerman]

That’s a good letter but it seems that his motorcycle comparison is to that of a sport bike. The same rules apply to a cruiser style MC but to less of an extreme. I can’t imagine anyone acting in an official capacity endorsing a PCT on a MC, too much liability. However I still think they can make a better MC tire then they do.

PS. Thanks for posting the letter, it will be interesting to see who else replies.

[bsreg]

My two cents for what they are worth...

I personally chose to purchase and use mc tires for mc. I also purchase the highest quality tires for my 4 wheeled ones as my wallet will allow. I do a lot of miles on the road. I do not like flats and I do not like risking my life more then I need to. Those are my choices...


I personally feel that using a ct on a mc would be much more dangerous. I have attempted to listen/read with a open mind about it but I come back to the fact that mc tires will corner on their sidewalls... CT have no sidewalls to speak of. I have busted enough side walls out four wheeling on jagged rocks.

So for me common sense would dictate even if there are others successfully doing this and harping the praises of it, I still would have to compare it to all those who have successfully played russian roulette and have not died yet.

Now granted I am not a tire expert nor claim to be one. I am however a biker for 32 of my 46 years of life. I raised in Knoxville Tn and rode the dragon on a weekly basis when sl was still 55 and I have dragged parts of everything from a Yamaha 360 to Venture and nearly every crotch rocket suzuki made and goldwing from the late 90s up by pushing the extreme of the dragon.. or taking the brushy mnt ride or taking street bike across the short cut called windrock. So one could say I am/was pretty stupid, most in that era stated they felt I had a death wish due to the extremes I went to... yet I still could not see putting a ct on a mc.

[flb_78]

mc tires will corner on their sidewalls... CT have no sidewalls to speak of.

Ive never ridden on the sidewall of any tire, unless it was flat. It's funny that my tire is wearing out in the center and the edges still look brand new.

You never ride on the sidewalls of any properly inflated tire. A radial tire flexes and keeps most of the contact patch on the ground, even in a turn.

[Tartan Terror]

Give it up guys. No matter how much professional proof you give this guy you wont convince him. You can only hope all this info gets to anyone who think they want to try it but dont know the reality of how wrong the car tire thing is. What is it that Ron White says???

[Jerry W]

Isn't Ron White the guy who is usually pretty well drunked up? That is the guy I am listening to.

[gibvel]

Give it up guys. No matter how much professional proof you give this guy you wont convince him. You can only hope all this info gets to anyone who think they want to try it but dont know the reality of how wrong the car tire thing is. What is it that Ron White says???


Tartan,

I understand, and stated, that these letters will probably not make any difference or change anyones mind. This information is for information purpose only and may help some people, who are on the fence, make up their minds.

It's amazing, to me, how some will follow a crowd of those who do something and haven't had any ill effects because they've done it and it "works" and not pay attention to those who actually design, test and market something for a living.


A radial tire flexes and keeps most of the contact patch on the ground, even in a turn.

I'm sorry, I've watched the videos of the car tires on the motorcycles and I totally disagree with this assumption. I don't see any flex. I'll reiterate this... car tires were meant for vehicles of substantially more weight than our motorcycles. So if flex comes into play it will not be to the extent of the flex that the tire was designed for because there is not nearly as much weight on the tire. Secondly, contact patch is a result of how much rubber is actually in contact with the road. On a motorcycle tire there is less tread, more flat smooth tire in contact with the road. All the treads and siping on CT reduce the amount of rubber that comes in contact with the road. My comparison is NASCAR, formula 1 etc. race tires. Total rubber, no tread, no siping just pure flat rubber so they can get as much contact to the road as possible. MC tires are closer to those tires than your average car tire.

That's just the way I see things, and the way my logic sees thing. Not trying to say your wrong, not trying to change your mind, that's just how I see it. :2cents:

I will continue to post the responses from those companies that choose to respond to my requests.

Again I was looking for and asked for good hard facts as to design and other aspects of tire design and manufacture that would give people cold hard facts to look at as opposed to the "bikers have been doing it for years", "these guys do it all the time and haven't had any problems" type of argument.

[Squeeze]

....
I'm sorry, I've watched the videos of the car tires on the motorcycles and I totally disagree with this assumption. I don't see any flex. I'll reiterate this... car tires were meant for vehicles of substantially more weight than our motorcycles. So if flex comes into play it will not be to the extent of the flex that the tire was designed for because there is not nearly as much weight on the tire. Secondly, contact patch is a result of how much rubber is actually in contact with the road. On a motorcycle tire there is less tread, more flat smooth tire in contact with the road. All the treads and siping on CT reduce the amount of rubber that comes in contact with the road. My comparison is NASCAR, formula 1 etc. race tires. Total rubber, no tread, no siping just pure flat rubber so they can get as much contact to the road as possible. MC tires are closer to those tires than your average car tire.

That's just the way I see things, and the way my logic sees thing. Not trying to say your wrong, not trying to change your mind, that's just how I see it. :2cents:
....

I'm really thankful that your going into this and the Way you do it. I for one, i'm with you on your Description of what's happening if your cornering a Bike with a C/T on the rear.

Exactly your Description is it, that makes a CT wear in den middle more than on the Shoulders. The middle is the Part where the 'flexing' is happening and because it is used always, going in both left and right Corners, it wears out in the middle first. Under minor lean Angles, the Patch Area which is in Contact with the Road may be slightly bigger than with a M/T, but when you increasing the lean Angle, the smaller the Patch Area gets.

I won't get in a heated Discussion about this Issue, but i reiterate my Concerns. A Car Tire on a Motorcycle without Sidecar is NOT a good Idea.

[pegscraper]

Oh no! The sky is falling! Again.

Their explanation of why motorcycle tires don't get very good mileage does not hold water.

You can theory away all you want to. But the test results are not bearing out the theory. Test results from all kinds of people, on all kinds of bikes, and all kinds of riding conditions, over quite a period of time now. Pretty far from just one isolated incident. A real scientist or engineer, given enough test results that don't fit his theory, will realize that something is wrong with the theory and adjust his theory to fit the test results. He won't continue to propound a theory that doesn't match up with test results.

All these theories based no experience have been read and considered and reread ad nauseam. If you don't want to run a CT, then don't. Take your dead horse and go flog it somewhere else.

Here's a fun picture. Check out what this old Indian is running - today, not 50 years ago - on the front.

[flb_78]

What is it that Ron White says???

Drunk in Public or They call me tater salad.

Kinda ironic you bring up Ron White, he was born and raised in Fritch, TX, just 50 miles away from here.

http://www.spiralfrog.com/sfimages/covers/pop/cov200/drg100/g131/g13179ffor2.jpg http://www.hotmoviesale.com/dvds/16159/1/Ron-White-They-Call-Me-Tater-Salad.jpg

[flb_78]

Beside that, my question would be, how come that not a single Car Tire Rider hasn't had an Accident or was going down ??

I just can't believe that nobody went down. That is a utmost Probability and against all Numbers. Not that i would say a Car Tire would have to take the Blame of any Accident happening nor it may have contributed to such an Event, but i never read about any Mishap or anything likely. Just makes me wonder.

Im sure there has been and Im sure you can find that on the net too but the one thing Im sure of is this crowd wont tell you about it. They only want to state the few sources that prove they are right. I think I may need to do a little research on this case.

BTW Tartan, how's that research coming? I have yet to find anything about anyone ever wrecking because of a car tire. How about you? Any fiery balls of death yet? :confused24:

Come on, you're coming up on 2 months to research this.

Ive stated my "few sources" that show that it's safe. Where's your "proof" that they won't work? I've posted pics of bikes dragging hard parts, I've posted videos of motorcycles riding on car tires and dragging hard parts. I've posted other rider's accounts of how the motorcycle handling actually feels better with the tire and yet, nothing to support your claim that it's dangerous and it will not work. Ive read that some riders went back to a motorcycle tire because they didn't like the car tire, but that doesn't count, otherwise I get to dismiss every tire that has been mentioned on the forum that folks do not like the handling characteristics of.

Im going to have to disagree with your claim that insurance will not pay as well. Drunk driving and speeding are both against the law, but yet, if you have an accident, they still pay out. They will most likely drop you after they pay, but they still pay.

[Squeeze]

Oh no! The sky is falling! Again.

...


:rotf::rotf::rotf::rotf::rotf::rotf:

[Tartan Terror]

Actually the quote I was getting at is " You cant fix Stupid"

[gibvel]

Ive never ridden on the sidewall of any tire, unless it was flat. It's funny that my tire is wearing out in the center and the edges still look brand new.

In my estimation you're wearing out the middle of the tire and not the sides because:

"I am running 40psi. That is 5lbs higher then the max, but it handles better. Lowell ran his at 35psi at first, but he now is also running 40psi and likes it better."

You're running 5lbs higher than the max on a tire that was made to carry much more weight than you're putting on it. Let me think here. You're bulging the tire out in the center giving it more of a rounded profile (Hmmm kinda like a motorcycle tire, no wonder it handles better) and not even touching the outside unless you lean.

[Tartan Terror]

In my estimation you're wearing out the middle of the tire and not the sides because:

"I am running 40psi. That is 5lbs higher then the max, but it handles better. Lowell ran his at 35psi at first, but he now is also running 40psi and likes it better."

You're running 5lbs higher than the max on a tire that was made to carry much more weight than you're putting on it. Let me think here. You're bulging the tire out in the center giving it more of a rounded profile (Hmmm kinda like a motorcycle tire, no wonder it handles better) and not even touching the outside unless you lean.
Right on the money with that assessment. Gibvel welcome to the fray. I dont understand why some people are so convinced its all about being screwed by tire companies. BFG, the builder of tire they are using does not make Bike tires. If they themselves thougth this was a safe application dont you think they would advertise that tire as an alternative for bikes? Companies always want to sell more tires. My guess if you asked them would be that they dont feel its a correct application. That means they dont feel its safe and if it failed in the wrong application they dont want the liability. Millions are spent by the makers to develop tires and test them all for the purpose of making the best tire and sell the most of them. If BFG thought it was safe it would say also make for MC use. It does not.

[V7Goose]

In my estimation you're wearing out the middle of the tire and not the sides because:

"I am running 40psi. That is 5lbs higher then the max, but it handles better. Lowell ran his at 35psi at first, but he now is also running 40psi and likes it better."

You're running 5lbs higher than the max on a tire that was made to carry much more weight than you're putting on it. Let me think here. You're bulging the tire out in the center giving it more of a rounded profile (Hmmm kinda like a motorcycle tire, no wonder it handles better) and not even touching the outside unless you lean.
I haven't really been following this thread 'cause I outgrew watching pissing contests, and I SWORE I would not join this discussion because I saw no value in it with closed minds on both sides (probably mine too), but I just can't help myself! Not even sure why I decided to check out the last couple of pages today. Anyway, I was having an internal argument with myself about not posting and how much I wanted to say EXACTLY what gibvel said above, then I saw his post. It is uncanny how exact that matched the obvious conclusion I came to when reading the posts about tire wear and inflation. That's spooky, man, get outa my mind!!!:rotf:

So my new conclusion is "gibvel is a genius 'cause he thinks like me!" And I just had to post to support a genius. Ride safe guys, if you can,
Goose

[sarges46]

Like Goose, I've watched and not said anything. I still won't comment one way or the other. I do find it fascinating though.Lots of pros and cons.

I would only ask/hope is that it can be kept "professional" and not get personal. Because once it gets too personal you are both going to lose alot and that then becomes a shame.

[V7Goose]

Like Goose, I've watched and not said anything. I still won't comment one way or the other. I do find it fascinating though.Lots of pros and cons.

I would only ask/hope is that it can be kept "professional" and not get personal. Because once it gets too personal you are both going to lose alot and that then becomes a shame.
Awww, Sarge, you gonna take the fun out of it. Does that mean I can't call gibvel a genius? I thought that was pretty personal. Sorry gibvel, I guess you get demoted back to "average schmuck."
Goose

[gibvel]

Schmuck... such a cute word...

Schmuck, Schmuck, Schmuck, Schmuck, Schmuck, Schmuck, Schmuck, Schmuck, Schmuck, Schmuck, Schmuck, Schmuck, Schmuck, Schmuck, Schmuck,

I'll take Schmuck, I'm used to being that!! :thumbsup2: :Bunny: :rotf:

[sarges46]

:rotf::rotf:Well...now Goose are still saying he thinks alot like you?:rotf:

Ok, I got nothing! I could never be accused of being a genius....just your average everyday Schmoe...

[V7Goose]

:rotf::rotf:Well...now Goose are still saying he thinks alot like you?:rotf:
Yup, I guess so. He does still seem to think like me, so if I gotta label him as an average schmuck, then I gotta be an average schmuck too. All us dimwitted fools gotta stick together! :thumbsup: (nothing personal, of course).
Goose

[gibvel]

just your average everyday Schmoe...

Ooooo Schmoe's a good one too. I may want to be promoted/demoted to Schmoe... hmmmm let's see...

Schumck, Schmoe, Schumck, Schmoe, Schumck, Schmoe this may take some thought.

[V7Goose]

Ooooo Schmoe's a good one too. I may want to be promoted/demoted to Schmoe... hmmmm let's see...

Schumck, Schmoe, Schumck, Schmoe, Schumck, Schmoe this may take some thought.
Wow, that IS a tough choice - jerk or dimwitted fool? Can I take them both? How 'bout schmuckoe?

[wizard]

Actually, calling someone a genius is a lot nicer then calling someone stupid for posting their experiences with a car tire, while they speculate from their experiences in a recliner in the living room. I wonder just what is to be actually learned while sitting in a chair?

[loehring]

I've been watching this thread like so many others. It seems like most of the people who are for CT look more at mileage than performance and those that are against them are looking at performance. I ride a 1st Gen because of the performance. People talk about dragging boards and that's exactly why I like the 1st Gen, no boards to drag. It sounds like the CT is fine if you're into straight lines and relaxed rides but I would still be pretty uncertain trying to push the edge on a CT. I guess the true test would be to put a CT on a sport bike and see what it would do but wouldn't want to be the one doing the testing. I keep telling my wife that my hair isn't on fire anymore but she says it's still smoldering pretty good so I guess I'll stick with a MT on my 1st Gen until I see someone on a rocket put a CT through it's paces. That's probably what it would take to convince me. I sure hope you guys with the CT are right. I don't want to read about any of you if you know what I mean.

[wizard]

Its funny you would mention a car tire on a rocket. On one of the other boards there are those riding the Triumph Rocket with car tires.

[hig4s]

I'll reiterate this... car tires were meant for vehicles of substantially more weight than our motorcycles. .


Not exactly correct,, BFGoodrich T/A Radial 155/80R15 load rating is 83, (1074lbs), the load rating for an Avon Venom 150/90B15 rear is 80 (992lbs)

And that is max load rating.. these size tires were on cars like early Honda Civic Hatchbacks.. Like the one my wife use to have, it weighed 1500lbs,, that is a load as low as 375lbs per tire in an empty car. Less than the per tire load of an RSV.

While I do not and will not use a car tire on my bike, I do believe motorcyclist are being screwed by the tire companies because we on touring bikes are such a small market share they won't bother with trying to give us better mileage. and certainly do not believe that car tires are dangerous to use just because the companies trying to sell us these over priced low mileage motorcycle tires say so.
And of course their engineers say the same thing, I work for a large corporation and I too must publicly agree with my companies stand if I want to keep my job, doesn't mean it is true.

[dharnie]

I only have 3,500 mi experience on my RSV and maybe I'm getting a little whimpy as I advance in years, :backinmyday: but when I gave my ride the gas in 1st gear in a 90 degree turn, that rear tire was going sideways and was spinnin out on its sidewall. Made me think that there are some ponies in her that I do not need to let loose and lose control. :no-no-no:

Similar experience with the 1100 VT Sabre, except I was in a 90 degree yield lane. When I shifted into 2nd with full throttle, that back tire was taking us sideways just enough to make my knees almost put permanent dents in the gas tank!

Both had OEM MC tires. Wonder if CT would have been better or worse - guess that is the magic answer yet to be found!

[MAINEAC]

I only have 3,500 mi experience on my RSV and maybe I'm getting a little whimpy as I advance in years, :backinmyday: but when I gave my ride the gas in 1st gear in a 90 degree turn, that rear tire was going sideways and was spinnin out on its sidewall. Made me think that there are some ponies in her that I do not need to let loose and lose control. :no-no-no:

Similar experience with the 1100 VT Sabre, except I was in a 90 degree yield lane. When I shifted into 2nd with full throttle, that back tire was taking us sideways just enough to make my knees almost put permanent dents in the gas tank!

Both had OEM MC tires. Wonder if CT would have been better or worse - guess that is the magic answer yet to be found!

Sounds like you're running Bridgestones otherwise known as Slickstones

[dharnie]

Nope - OEM Dunlops on both bikes - :confused24:

[Tom]

I only have 3,500 mi experience on my RSV and maybe I'm getting a little whimpy as I advance in years, :backinmyday: but when I gave my ride the gas in 1st gear in a 90 degree turn, that rear tire was going sideways and was spinnin out on its sidewall. Made me think that there are some ponies in her that I do not need to let loose and lose control. :no-no-no:

Similar experience with the 1100 VT Sabre, except I was in a 90 degree yield lane. When I shifted into 2nd with full throttle, that back tire was taking us sideways just enough to make my knees almost put permanent dents in the gas tank!

Both had OEM MC tires. Wonder if CT would have been better or worse - guess that is the magic answer yet to be found!

If I were you I know from experience that it should not be doing that...Check the rear shock as mine went out but it still holds air and it is kinda squirrely when I corner hard so I am taking it easy till my new works performance shock arrives. Tom (Look for oil at the base of the rear shock)

[wizard]

I got my TA Radial mounted today. The guys at the tire shop, where I bought the tire, told me they had no problems mounting it. One of the new kids working there thought it was going on a truck rim??? :confused24:

[thebighop]

I've been watching this thread like so many others. It seems like most of the people who are for CT look more at mileage than performance and those that are against them are looking at performance. I ride a 1st Gen because of the performance. People talk about dragging boards and that's exactly why I like the 1st Gen, no boards to drag. It sounds like the CT is fine if you're into straight lines and relaxed rides but I would still be pretty uncertain trying to push the edge on a CT. I guess the true test would be to put a CT on a sport bike and see what it would do but wouldn't want to be the one doing the testing. I keep telling my wife that my hair isn't on fire anymore but she says it's still smoldering pretty good so I guess I'll stick with a MT on my 1st Gen until I see someone on a rocket put a CT through it's paces. That's probably what it would take to convince me. I sure hope you guys with the CT are right. I don't want to read about any of you if you know what I mean.

I ride in Iron Butt Runs, so I am looking at both mileage and performance from my CT.
I have a BF Goodrich T/A Radial mounted 155/80 15, at 40psi and it handles all the road conditions wet and dry better than the Metzlers did...and I was only getting around 7500 miles out of the Metz...I tow a pop up camper and ride 2 up a lot too.
I can take curves at higher speeds without any problem and I have yet to come close to going past the tread edge.
I am not into scrapping my boards, but I can lean into turns a lot more aggressively with the CT...but!
I am not into hot rodding and could care less about running Deals Gap and the Dragon Tail...I just want to be capable of doing so, without losing the bike, and the CT allows that.
Braking and ride comfort are improved also....
I might point out that back in 1970 I owned a 54 Harley Hydra Glide and ran VW tires on it...
There were few options back then...the tread pattern was flatter than the T/A Radial I am using now, and I never had a moments trouble...why would anything change just because I am on a Venture in 2008? and on modern tires.
I would also point out that it is the nature of a radial tire to round out as it rolls, so you should never be able to ride up on the side walls of a CT like you can on a MT....
When I ran Dunlop 404's they had as flat a tread profile as the radial does.
Looking at a pic of my tire shows it is not sitting flat, but actually rounded at the sides...
18443

[Ponch]

Hay bighop.

Any idea what kind of mileage I could expect on the BFG CT?

Ponch

[BoomerCPO]

I considered going to the dark side.....but then I checked with my Insurance Company.

I'll stick with the MC tires thank you very much.:whistling:

To each his own and ride safe.........Boomer

[Tartan Terror]

I considered going to the dark side.....but then I checked with my Insurance Company.

I'll stick with the MC tires thank you very much.:whistling:

To each his own and ride safe.........Boomer


For everyone- what exactly did they tell you?

Maybe they will listen if you tell them.

[BoomerCPO]

For everyone- what exactly did they tell you?

Maybe they will listen if you tell them.

I got call backs from both my Insurance Agent and a Company Supervisor. They both informed me that if I installed a CT on the bike my Policy would be canceled immediately.

I can't pull a fast one regarding this because my next door neighbor is my Insurance Agent....and she is as honest as the day is long.

As I stated previously....to each his own and ride safe.

Regards........Boomer

[Tartan Terror]

I was just curious because this is one of the things that I have been trying to tell them all along. Now if you had put on that tire and anything bad had happened what would the Insurance Co do?

Boomer thanks for reporting this and hopefully this will make some of the others thinking of dong this think before they act.

Is it really worth taking the chance and keep hoping you never need to test this out. Those who have had accidents of any sort know that they investigate and will look for any reason not to pay and when they do determine you are entitled to payout how many still need to fight for a honest settlement. Is it really worth it to make that process impossible?

[BoomerCPO]

Now if you had put on that tire and anything bad had happened what would the Insurance Co do?


The Company would have refused to honor my Policy regardless of the circumstances of the accident.

[thebighop]

I appreciate the input about the insurance...But until my policy clearly states that I CAN NOT use the tire of my choice...I will continue to run a CT.
They can find reasons to not pay a claim all day long, and as my lawyers have done in the past, they will keep counter filing.
A lot of customs come with a CT and are covered as is...
If it comes to it...I will gladly be the test case.
But until I see verifiable proof that a CT is dangerous...and not from a tire company or one of it's consultants...I will continue to ride on it.
As I have already stated...I ran CT's on my old Harleys, along with everyone else, and the quality of tires back then pales in comparison to the ones those of us on the 'Dark Side' are using today.
I had thought long and hard before going to the CT...it wasn't a hasty decision, but one based on thousands of testimonies from CT users I have read over the past year....
The burden therefore is on me and those that use a CT on their motorcycle, and no one else, so to continue to argue the nay side is like preaching to the choir....
If someone wants to try it...no amount of persuasion will deter them.
I have read all of your concerns along with those of countless others and I still made the decision to try it...
If we never tried the stuff that 'they' said was crazy, or wouldn't work...we'd never have got off the ground at Kitty Hawk...now we orbit the earth....
If nothing else...maybe the MT manufacturers will catch on that we are tired of them raping us with their shoddy tires at inflated prices and make some changes...
Ever ask yourself why we pay so friggin' much for a MT? It's because they have convinced you that you have too...They should cost no more, in fact maybe less than a CT...
Not too many years ago...I could get 15,000 to 20,000 miles out of a Dunlop 404...today I would get 8000.
They figured out that if they made the tire less durable...we'd gladly chuck out dollar after dollar to replace them....
Not me...not anymore.

[BoomerCPO]

If someone wants to try it...no amount of persuasion will deter them

Yep....and this is exactly why I stated "To each his own and ride safe".:cool10:

[wizard]

I switched from the dangerous Metzler rear tire to the car tire on my Venture. I really like the car tire much better than the Metzler, which has been documented and proved as being a very bad tire choice on this website. To tell you the truth, I really do feel safer on the TA Radial. As far as insurance, I feel that it is a unnecessary evil placed on us, just as is the mandatory helmet law. Too many folks have their fingers in it and all are out to make a easy dime. It looks like the safety Nazis are getting their way, and in all likelihood, bikes will be outlawed as being to dangerous as a public means of transportation. Thank God there are still a few bikers out there that don't conform to the common whim of the masses.

[Squeeze]

I don't know how it works in US, but here in Germany, if they find anything illegal on the Bike they will go to make you responsible for the Accident happened. Even if the Issue has nothing to do with the Accident.

It is one Thing to file a Claim against an Insurance for not paying you, but it is sure another Thing to get sued by an Insurance for Reimbursement of any Costs of the opposing Party.

The Insurance has to pay at first hand and without regarding the Facts they have. But they will go after you with everything they have (which is everything in such a Case) and after everything you have, moneywise spoken. So, being in an Accident, regardless of who's at Fault, will give you a good Chance in loosing everything you ever earned in the Past and everything you will earn in the Future.

Only Way to avoid this, is to get the Tire writen into the Papers, but you will find no Engineer here which certifies a CT on a leaning Vehicle. Sidecars, Trikes will get a Sign from somebody, but sure not a leaning Vehicle as a Motorcycle.

[Jerry W]

I have read the pros & cons of mounting a CT on a motorcycle and since I have not ridden a bike with a CT on it, I don't really have any way of knowing what it is like. I did call my insurance company and ask about coverage and the agent said she did not see why it would have an impact on coverage but would check with headquarters and see and call me back. I do not have a final answer, she called me back and said she had not been able to get a definate answer, the question was being moved up to higher management. So far no one has had a problem with a car tire, but they will call me back again when a definate answer is given by upper management. When I get the final answer, I will post.

Just wondering, has anyone talked to a rider that has personally had a bad experience with a CT on a bike?

[gibvel]

Just curious, could you let us know who your provider is when you get the final answer.

Thanks

[thebighop]

I haven't heard of anyone in the past year that had any thing bad happen as a result of a CT...
A couple of people were hit, but that would have happened if they had been in a tank at that time and place...
But no...I can't report about anything happening as a result of using a car tire on a motorcycle, and I have read everything I have been able to find on the subject...

[wizard]

I have'nt heard about any accident due to a car tire, but on this site, I have heard of terrible things happening to the Metzler motorcycle tire, and the dangers of rideing on one. I seen Pictures! and 1st hand statements! not rumors heard from a friend of a friend! Right here on this website! :-)

[Jerry W]

Just curious, could you let us know who your provider is when you get the final answer.

Thanks


Sure, I use Dairyland Insurance. Like I said, the agent said she could not see a problem with the CT so she called someone above her in management and their response was the same but they are going up higher and make sure. I will post the answer when I hear something.

[flb_78]

Just wondering, has anyone talked to a rider that has personally had a bad experience with a CT on a bike?

no yet, but Tartan was going to check into this over 2 months ago and post all the stories of motorcycles that have wrecked because of it. He was going to do this because he said that we who are running a tire are not posting those stories, but this is coming from a guy who says Harleys handle better.

Still waiting.

On April 4
Beside that, my question would be, how come that not a single Car Tire Rider hasn't had an Accident or was going down ??

I just can't believe that nobody went down. That is a utmost Probability and against all Numbers. Not that i would say a Car Tire would have to take the Blame of any Accident happening nor it may have contributed to such an Event, but i never read about any Mishap or anything likely. Just makes me wonder.

Replied on April 4
Im sure there has been and Im sure you can find that on the net too but the one thing Im sure of is this crowd wont tell you about it. They only want to state the few sources that prove they are right. I think I may need to do a little research on this case.

:080402gudl_prv:

[Tartan Terror]

no yet, but Tartan was going to check into this over 2 months ago and post all the stories of motorcycles that have wrecked because of it. He was going to do this because he said that we who are running a tire are not posting those stories, but this is coming from a guy who says Harleys handle better.

Still waiting.

On April 4


Replied on April 4


:080402gudl_prv:

I guess now you know more than the Insurance Companies now too.

[OB-1]

Insurance companies crunch numbers and look at what they perceive as risk. Their perception, and what is real, aren't always the same.

I, for one, would be interested in any first hand accounts of car tires installed on motorcycles causing or being a contributing factor in any accident.

I've been in engineering long enough to know that occasionally a device used for other than its intended and designed purpose can sometimes work in the unusual application and that it can occasionally work very well.:backinmyday: To me, using car tires on a motorcycle is an intriguing, but unproven, possibility. A car tire typically has a weight rating that far exceeds the entire loaded weight of a motorcycle. I believe this may be the factor that allows a car tire to survive the significant sidewall flexing that occurs during cornering.

My riding is almost all two up and often fully loaded. I also live approximately 5 miles from the nearest pavement, so we do a fair bit of gravel and dirt road riding, (try to keep a Midnight Venture clean when you have to ride on dirt & gravel). The tread design of most car tires provides better traction on the gravel and dirt than any motorcycle tire available for our bikes. The tread depth of most car tires is significantly greater than a motorcycle tire. This should improve wet weather handling and reduce to potential for rear tire hydroplaning.

So, please keep the information coming and let’s put the personal digs aside. :no-no-no:

[BradT]

.

I've been in engineering long enough to know that occasionally a device used for other than its intended and designed purpose can sometimes work in the unusual application and that it can occasionally work very well.

So, please keep the information coming and let’s put the personal digs aside. :no-no-no:


Like a screwdriver has been used for many things, a door opener, chisel, pry bar, hammer and many other uses. Go ahead and admit that you only use it as Screwdriver,then we can call you lier :rotf:

Yes please on the last statement above.

Brad

[tbrdb0b]

try gl1800riders.com dark side,,,, lots of info for you too read...

[Just-Jack]

ok so what is the best size ct for a rsv???
im going to try it myself BUT i will not let the better half on the back till i get the feel for the ct
andd how it will handle for me

[flb_78]

I guess now you know more than the Insurance Companies now too.

I said nothing about insurance in my post. I said that YOU were going to post up all the stories about people who have wrecked because of their car tire because YOU were sure there were stories all over the internet about how it does not work.

Hurry up and buy your Harley and get off this board.

[flb_78]

ok so what is the best size ct for a rsv???


I am running a BFGoodrich 155/80R15.

[thebighop]

Running the BFG 155/80R15 leaves about .561 inches room between the tire and drive shaft...
You could possibly go to a 175/80R15 which is approx 1/2 inch wider and that should still leave clearance enough not to cause problems...

[sigwings]

I guess now you know more than the Insurance Companies now too.
That's a pretty poor response. Insurance Companies are about 1 thing and 1 thing only, making as much money as possible. Everything else they due is a nuisance and hinderance to the 1 thing.

[Tartan Terror]

As I have said before Car tires are wrong on bikes. There are few on here that have tried it and maybe are doing ok for now. The people I am trying to reach are the ones that just came on the board and maybe just got the RSV and need a new tire. Some of you have chosen it knowing the risks. I wish you good luck but you know the risks and if something happens you were warned. Good luck with that. I dont want to see anyone come on here and just because a few people have it think that it is fine without knowing the risk.

One person in particular often questions my experience. I have owned my own tire business that caters fron everything from lawn tires to OTR tires and everything in between. I have had it now for 12 years and own it as a partner with my Father. Ive been in the business for much longer than 12 years and Dad has been doing tires for 45 years. I also worked for Goodyear racing on a part time basis for 12 years also. That being said I think I know a few things about tires of all types as well as applications. I research and solve the issues all the time.

If something happens as said before your Insurance Co will not back you up. Some on here say they want to screw you. Well that is true. They dont want to pay out. Fact is if the bike maker says the CT dont belong on there and the CT builder says it dont belong on there you will loose if you go to court. Some may be having good experience with the CT but if it comes down to this you will loose and loose alot. Some have checked with thier companies and flat out was told we will cancel you. Other people have checked and were told they needed to look farther into it. Probably never been asked before. If your company tells you that you can use it GET IT IN WRITING!

In NY you will fail your inspection Immediatly for a CT. Some states dont even check. If you think this is an ok once again call you insurance and get it in writing.

If you want to believe that everyone in the world is out to screw you then fine. Believe that but remember if it comes down to it a Tire Co will screw you. When the lawsuit comes they will say that CT should not be on a MC then you will be really be screwed. This is the world we live in so you need to cross your T's and dot your I's. Dont expect them to stand by you if you get hurt with a CT on a scoot. We have enough trouble with claims on legitimate tire failures on the proper vehicles.

All that being Said if you choose a CT be prepared for the consequenses. All I can say is thank God there are so few bikes that you can even fit a CT under being that most are too narrow or the rim size is too big.


Also FLB even if I were to buy a Harley tomorrow I will still be here.No plans to go anywhere.

[Squeeze]

I think some Folks are putting this Insurance/Legal Issue down to a Point where it seems not to count. It's not.

I may be stressing this, but as long as the Insurance Company doesn't state that they are fine with are CT on the Bike, and manifest this in a Piece of Paper with an accountable Undersign on it, i wouldn't feel very comfortable with it. They could make you responsible and accountable for all Costs of an Accident. This could be everything you own and will own in your Life. As i said before, technically spoken, there are some Things in Question, on the other Hand there is Lot of Proof that this works for a Lot of People and i won't reiterate all this again.

The 'Fight' you both are helding here is over this CT Issue in Tone is way beyond Kindergarten. You should both look into yourself and slap your Backhead just once. Then go back to normal Mode.

Edit ....

i was typing too slow for getting my Comment in, TT was faster on that

[gibvel]

Also FLB even if I were to buy a Harley tomorrow I will still be here.No plans to go anywhere.

Glad to here that Scott.

As far as the Tire companies recommendation... From BF Goodrich this morning in the email:

Mark,

Thank you for your email. We welcome the opportunity to serve you.

We do not recommend using a Passenger car tire on the back of a motorcycle. A Passenger car tire is not designed to handle the same as a motorcycle tire.

It is our goal to ensure that your issue has been resolved or your question answered to your satisfaction. If we can assist you further, please respond to this email or call us at 1-877-788-8899 (toll free) between 8:00AM and 8:00PM Eastern Time Monday through Friday or between 9:00AM and 5:00PM Eastern Time on Saturday.

Sincerely,

Bobby
BFGoodrich Tires
Consumer Care Department

Now I know for a fact that someone will come back and say "their just trying to cover their butts" True, wouldn't you? They have no responsibility to you because you are not using their product as it was designed to be used.

Most insurance companies say no, tire manufacturers say no, bike manufacturers say no. Seems that if you try this your are TOTALLY ON YOUR OWN if something happens... even if it's NOT the tires fault.

[thebighop]

I for one put a CT on my bike for one purpose...to get the mileage that an MT fails to provide.
If the MT manufacturers made tires like they used to, then I wouldn't need to run a CT, but I'll be damned if I am going to be taken for the cost of two sets of tires a year for more than the tires I use on my 4x4 Dodge, which last 40,000 miles....
I give a rats pituty about the arguments ,ya or nay on the subject. I have friends that have been using CT's on their Wings and Valkyries for years and have never had a problem form the tire, insurance companies or dealerships while still under warranty....That's good enuff for me.
You've beat the bejesus outta this dead horse...why not just get over it, and let those that ride decide...
I don't think that it is something for everyone, nor is it only for the experienced hard core rider..a newbie could go directly to a CT with no trouble...
I studied this issue for over a year before I made the change, and even then I was apprehensive and most likely overly cautious my first few times out, but after a few times it was just like any other tire...you adapt to the characteristics very quickly and with little effort....

[pegscraper]

Another note from another tire company saying not to use car tires on motorcycles. Yawn and snore. How many times do we have to read all the naysayers stuff? You don't have anything new left to say, and it's all been refuted over and over again. If you don't want to run a CT, then don't. Past that, drop it already.


ok so what is the best size ct for a rsv???
im going to try it myself BUT i will not let the better half on the back till i get the feel for the ct
andd how it will handle for me

The CT size that most closely matches our rear tire in height and width is 165/80R15. It's a bit of an odd size and there are only two or three manufacturers making this size of tire. The 155/80R15 is smaller and will put the speedo a little farther off than it already is. It will otherwise work fine. A 175/80R15, well, good luck trying to find a tire in that size. There are plenty of tires in a 185 size, but they are too wide to fit our bike. For more information, check the darkside group, link to be found at the bottom of any of flb's posts.

[MAINEAC]

I got a few things..

1st - This bickering is getting as lame and tired as the 1st vs. 2nd Gen thing.

2nd - I'm thinking about a Federal 165/80-15.. Any one try this? or this size?

3rd - We now have a "Dark Side" Group... This is the 1st that I'm aware of on VR.. I'm going to put in a request that we get a Dark Side Thread or Topic or whatever they call it. Dark Siders please respond to my request to show your support to make this happen.

here's the link:
http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?p=213491#post213491

[gunboat]

hi maineac
i agree with you. i support the move.
best reguards
don c.

[dharnie]

GUNBOAT - support here


here's the link:
http://www.venturerider.org/forum/sh...491#post213491 (http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?p=213491#post213491)

[6m459]

I am going to err on the side of caution here. Lets face it, lots of high priced engineering goes into modern rubber and I am not about to second guess them when my life is on the line! Call me a wuss if you feel you need to but its M/C tires on my m/c's and car tires on my cars end of debate.

I will stand back and watch those more adventurous souls with the same mix of admiration, horror and disbelief that I use when watching people swim with sharks.

Brian H.
Uxbridge Ont

[thebighop]

I got a few things..

1st - This bickering is getting as lame and tired as the 1st vs. 2nd Gen thing.

2nd - I'm thinking about a Federal 165/80-15.. Any one try this? or this size?

3rd - We now have a "Dark Side" Group... This is the 1st that I'm aware of on VR.. I'm going to put in a request that we get a Dark Side Thread or Topic or whatever they call it. Dark Siders please respond to my request to show your support to make this happen.

here's the link:
http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?p=213491#post213491

By all means..Freebird should add a CT thread in the tech section for those using car tires to share the info with those that want to, or just want to know something about it...

[flb_78]

I would be for the new section, but it won't do any good because unless one of us "darksiders" could moderate it, it will be filled with posts from folks saying it's dangerous and stupid, insurance won't cover you, tire manufacturers won't support you and all the same crap that is spewed in this thread and no one will delete the posts to find the actual "tech" content.

[dharnie]

I thought the same thing - not a MT vs CT thread - but more like a sharing of personal experiences - like most of the rest of this forum does - maybe it would run OK without a moderator if the conditions of the thread could be in the first post or what they call a "sticky"?

[MAINEAC]

You'd be amazed at how fast the Doomsdayers disapear if we just ignore them.. But IMO members on both sides of the issue seem to take it personal.

[sigwings]

[quote=pegscraper;213486] The 155/80R15 is smaller and will put the speedo a little farther off than it already is. quote]

Doesn't the speedo work off of the front tire?

[sigwings]

As I have said before Car tires are wrong on bikes. There are few on here that have tried it and maybe are doing ok for now. The people I am trying to reach are the ones that just came on the board and maybe just got the RSV and need a new tire. Some of you have chosen it knowing the risks. I wish you good luck but you know the risks and if something happens you were warned. Good luck with that. I dont want to see anyone come on here and just because a few people have it think that it is fine without knowing the risk.

One person in particular often questions my experience. I have owned my own tire business that caters fron everything from lawn tires to OTR tires and everything in between. I have had it now for 12 years and own it as a partner with my Father. Ive been in the business for much longer than 12 years and Dad has been doing tires for 45 years. I also worked for Goodyear racing on a part time basis for 12 years also. That being said I think I know a few things about tires of all types as well as applications. I research and solve the issues all the time.

If something happens as said before your Insurance Co will not back you up. Some on here say they want to screw you. Well that is true. They dont want to pay out. Fact is if the bike maker says the CT dont belong on there and the CT builder says it dont belong on there you will loose if you go to court. Some may be having good experience with the CT but if it comes down to this you will loose and loose alot. Some have checked with thier companies and flat out was told we will cancel you. Other people have checked and were told they needed to look farther into it. Probably never been asked before. If your company tells you that you can use it GET IT IN WRITING!

In NY you will fail your inspection Immediatly for a CT. Some states dont even check. If you think this is an ok once again call you insurance and get it in writing.

If you want to believe that everyone in the world is out to screw you then fine. Believe that but remember if it comes down to it a Tire Co will screw you. When the lawsuit comes they will say that CT should not be on a MC then you will be really be screwed. This is the world we live in so you need to cross your T's and dot your I's. Dont expect them to stand by you if you get hurt with a CT on a scoot. We have enough trouble with claims on legitimate tire failures on the proper vehicles.

All that being Said if you choose a CT be prepared for the consequenses. All I can say is thank God there are so few bikes that you can even fit a CT under being that most are too narrow or the rim size is too big.


Also FLB even if I were to buy a Harley tomorrow I will still be here.No plans to go anywhere.

The only information I can find in my owners manual about tires:

WARNING
EWA10460

The front and rear tires should
be of the same make and design,
otherwise the handling
characteristics of the vehicle
cannot be guaranteed.

After extensive tests, only the
tires listed below have been approved
for this model by
Yamaha Motor Co., Ltd.
Front tire:
Size:
150/80-16M/C 71H
Manufacturer/model:
BRIDGESTONE/G705G
Rear tire:
Size:
150/90B15M/C 74H
Manufacturer/model:
BRIDGESTONE/G702G


Looks to me like I am already "voiding" my warranty by running Metzlers, hope my insurance company doesn't find out.

[flb_78]

Doesn't the speedo work off of the front tire?

Not on the 2nd gens. It runs off the final drive unit.

[thebighop]

The only information I can find in my owners manual about tires:

WARNING
EWA10460


The front and rear tires should
be of the same make and design,
otherwise the handling
characteristics of the vehicle
cannot be guaranteed.



After extensive tests, only the
tires listed below have been approved
for this model by
Yamaha Motor Co., Ltd.

Front tire:

Size:
150/80-16M/C 71H
Manufacturer/model:
BRIDGESTONE/G705G
Rear tire:
Size:
150/90B15M/C 74H
Manufacturer/model:
BRIDGESTONE/G702G


Looks to me like I am already "voiding" my warranty by running Metzlers, hope my insurance company doesn't find out.



If you do a little investigating you will probably find one of two things...
Either Yamaha owns a large portion of Bridgestone , or Bridgestone has an exclusive contract with Yamaha...

[Tartan Terror]

If you do a little investigating you will probably find one of two things...
Either Yamaha owns a large portion of Bridgestone , or Bridgestone has an exclusive contract with Yamaha...
That is not true. They do use them as they are a Japanesse tire manufacturer.

[sigwings]

That is not true. They do use them as they are a Japanesse tire manufacturer.


So, how does using a Metzler tire differ from using a CT, seems like both are unapproved by the manufacturer.

[gibvel]

So, how does using a Metzler tire differ from using a CT, seems like both are unapproved by the manufacturer.

Now you're talking apples and oranges.

To answer the question... Metzler tires were designed for a bike car tires were designed for a ... well, I think you know.

[Squeeze]

I think the Discussion about 'unapproved' Metzeler Tires is going too far off the Track in here. That's very funny, isn't it ?

[dharnie]

Size:

150/80-16M/C 71H
Manufacturer/model:
BRIDGESTONE/G705GRear tire:Size:
150/90B15M/C 74H
Manufacturer/model:BRIDGESTONE/G702G



:confused24:


My RSV's tires are stock OEM and they are DUNLOPS - front & rear - but same size as above!!!!!

It appears that the manual is referring to size - not the make of the tires.

[Tartan Terror]

Size:

150/80-16M/C 71H
Manufacturer/model:
BRIDGESTONE/G705GRear tire:Size:
150/90B15M/C 74H
Manufacturer/model:BRIDGESTONE/G702G



:confused24:


My RSV's tires are stock OEM and they are DUNLOPS - front & rear - but same size as above!!!!!


It appears that the manual is referring to size - not the make of the tires.


That is correct. Mine originally came with Dunlops too. Dunlop MC Tires!

[wizard]

I didn't know Dunlops were Japanese made tires!

[Squeeze]

I didn't know Dunlops were Japanese made tires!

They're not only made in Japan, but also

[Jerry W]

I didn't know Dunlops were Japanese made tires!

You are correct, Dunlops are made in Buffalo, New York.

"In 1920, ground was broken in Buffalo, New York, for what would become the first Dunlop tire manufacturing facility in the United States. Dunlop is still the only manufacturer to produce motorcycle tires in the U.S"

[Tartan Terror]

If your read a little more carefully you will see I said BRIDGESTONES not Dunlops. I said mine came with Dunlops on it to in no conncection with where it was made. You guys are really grasping at straws for every opportunity for more arguments arent you.

[dharnie]

No argument, Mr Terror - just facts - in my post anyway :confused24:. Your quote from manual read "Bridgestone". Again it is not the tire but the difference in the sizes that it was referring too - that's all I was pointing out here.

I would really like to see this thread locked for reading only before somebody says something stupid and later might regret it. Also at this point it seems to be a waste of time - when we all could be riding whatever tire we like to ride on!

If not that - then at least open the CT/Darkside forum for more pointed factual discussins, which I would be more inclined to enjoy - instead of more back & forth accusations such as

"You guys are really grasping at straws for every opportunity for more arguments arent you."

[BOO]

Dam you guys are going for the record number of posts on one subject, I haven't read the whole thing but I presume it's only one subject.

I really don't have anything bad or good to say about what you are doing with the car tires but back in the fifties and sixties we ran a lot of car tires on the old Harley's and they didn't have near the rounded edge the tires do today. I will say it got a little exciting sometimes in the curves because the old tires were pretty flat on the tread side.

I see a lot of bikes with car tires on them, especially the ones with the V8 engines.

With all that said I would not run a car tire on my bike but that's just me.

Just be careful and know what you're riding on.

Jerry

[Billet]

Has anyone tried an aircraft tire? Heck they are probably FAA approved and aren't they something like 28ply, load range G?
Should hold up to anything.

[hig4s]

Actually if you read the manual carefully you will find it states that there are two approved tires for the RSV.. One is the stock Bridgestones and the other is the stock Dunlops, and that is because no other tires have been tested by Yamaha.

What we need is a motorcycle magazine, with professional riders, on a track to ride full dress bikes and cruisers with both stock and CTs to compare them, list the perceived pros and cons, and give a detailed analysis .

[MAINEAC]

Members who have read this thread : 544

Seems to be some interest in this subject....

[sigwings]

Now you're talking apples and oranges.

To answer the question... Metzler tires were designed for a bike car tires were designed for a ... well, I think you know.


I actually think is all crazy, but that is from my owners manual (the 2005 RSTD), and if you are going to try and be technical and go by what the manufacturer says, that is what they say, so technically it is apples to apples, two unapproved tires.

[Steve S]

One of the greatest thing about this site is the way we can agree to disagree. With the large number of posts on this subject, and the fact that we haven't killed each other yet, shows that we are at least willing to tolerate each other having different opinions. That being said, I AINT GONNA RUN A CAR TIRE ON MY RIDE!!!:stirthepot::stirthepot::stirthepot:

Sorry, but I just couldn't resist.:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

[wizard]

quote=Tartan Terror;213740]That is not true. They do use them as they are a Japanesse tire manufacturer.[/quote]

I'm sorry buddy, I thought that you implied that the only reason Yamaha recommended and used Bridgestones as a OEM tire was because they were made in Japan. By that token, since Dunlops were the OEM on the later Ventures, they were made in Japan. I thought it a little odd that Harley would use a Japan made tire as a OEM. :-)

[Jerry W]

I find it interesting that someone not connected to Yamaha knows why they choose a particular brand of tire to mount on their bikes and what they actually mean whey they list approved tires in their manual and the description includes size and brand. Just wondering if aftermarket seats, pipes, grips etc void the warranty and risk insurance being cancelled?

[thebighop]

Has anyone tried an aircraft tire? Heck they are probably FAA approved and aren't they something like 28ply, load range G?
Should hold up to anything.
Hey...aren't most small aircraft two wheelers?
I think we may be on to something here....

[gibvel]

Just as a point of reference, I did check with my insurance company (Progressive) and the email I got back was that it would NOT change my policy if I put a car tire on the rear of the RSV. I don't know if this varies from state to state but, at least here in Colorado, it seems to be okay.

Not that I'm going to do it, but it seems as if Progressive doesn't care. Just an FYI.

[gunboat]

thanks for the update, progressive is my insurance co. i now have 4,367 on my c/t.

best reguards
don c.

[OB-1]

thanks for the update, progressive is my insurance co. i now have 4,367 on my c/t.

best reguards
don c.

So what tire are you running and what are your experiences with your car tire?:detective:

[gunboat]

hi ob-1
i am useing the b.f.goorich t/a radial 155/80r/15. i realy like it so far. just returned from riding the three sisters / some say the twisted sisters. fm337,fm336 & fm335 some of the top rated twistes in the state by ride texas magazine. just out side of kerrville, texas. had no problems, total of 800 miles in two days. i do not ride aggresively. but i do run at least 5 to10 mph over the posted speed limit all the time. nor do i try to scrape the floorboards, but it's nice to know i can if i have to. i am looking for the milage /coast aspect of this tire. 40,000 miles @ $75.00. i have read a lot on this mod, and as stated before. it's not for everyone & i will not twist your arm. but i will pass along my experiance and info about this mod. i will be rideing the bike up to canada for the 08 international rally. i will also be pulling my tow behind trailer with all my camping gear.
when i ware this tire down i might try the kumho solus kr21 165/80r-15 next. its just a little bigger.
i must tell anyone to take it easy for a couple hundred miles when you do this mod, so you can scrape the mode release coating and get use to the tire. thanks for checking out the darkside. aways feel free to contact me for any help or more info.

best reguards
don c.

[gibvel]

BTW, I heard from BF Goodrich about a warranty question. They will not warranty a tire that is used in a misapplication.

Also asked Dunlop why durometer tests show a High mileage car tire to be a softer compound than a lower mileage bike tire. The reply:

Mark -

Typically, people believe a harder compound will always provide better
mileage when compared to a softer compound. This is not always true. If
the polymer type is changed or high grade carbon is applied, a softer
compound can provide better mileage.

Not trying to cause a row just passing along some things that I found out FYI

[flb_78]

Just as a point of reference, I did check with my insurance company (Progressive) and the email I got back was that it would NOT change my policy if I put a car tire on the rear of the RSV. I don't know if this varies from state to state but, at least here in Colorado, it seems to be okay.

Not that I'm going to do it, but it seems as if Progressive doesn't care. Just an FYI.

I have Progressive Insurance as well. :cool10:

[wizard]

BTW, I heard from BF Goodrich about a warranty question. They will not warranty a tire that is used in a misapplication.

Do they mean, like, useing it as a swing? :-)

[flb_78]

BTW, I heard from BF Goodrich about a warranty question. They will not warranty a tire that is used in a misapplication.


You're lucky to get any tire manufacturer to warranty any tire.

[BradT]

You're lucky to get any tire manufacturer to warranty any tire.

Actually I had BF Goodrick replace all four tires on my van. At first they stated under inflated as the tire separated at the bead, all the way around. A front blew out on me at 80 mph. The very next week another one went flat sitting in the driveway, bead was all cracked. Had the dealer pull the other two same thing on all four and they pro rated them of course but, they never said it was a tire problem, just paid the bill.

Brad

[wizard]

Wow, thats a lot better treatment then anyone I've heard about that had delamination issues with the Metzler tire on this site! They sound like a responsible company,interested in keeping a customer.

[gibvel]

I have Progressive Insurance as well. :cool10:

I'd still get it in writing, just in case!!

[gibvel]

BTW, I heard from BF Goodrich about a warranty question. They will not warranty a tire that is used in a misapplication.

Do they mean, like, useing it as a swing? :-)

Hmmm think you'll have to ask them on that one!! :whistling: :rotf:

[thebighop]

Just as a point of reference, I did check with my insurance company (Progressive) and the email I got back was that it would NOT change my policy if I put a car tire on the rear of the RSV. I don't know if this varies from state to state but, at least here in Colorado, it seems to be okay.

Not that I'm going to do it, but it seems as if Progressive doesn't care. Just an FYI.

I have Progressive too, and it has been a general rule with them, that unless something is spelled out in the policy as unacceptable, they cover it...
So unless they specifically reject the use of a particular type of equipment, such as car tires, they won't deny your claim.
I would have to look but I think it spells out the types of things not covered WITHOUT a rider...and those are generally add-ons, like custom paint, custom wheels, CD players not factory installed...

[thebighop]

BTW, I heard from BF Goodrich about a warranty question. They will not warranty a tire that is used in a misapplication.

Also asked Dunlop why durometer tests show a High mileage car tire to be a softer compound than a lower mileage bike tire. The reply:

Mark -

Typically, people believe a harder compound will always provide better
mileage when compared to a softer compound. This is not always true. If
the polymer type is changed or high grade carbon is applied, a softer
compound can provide better mileage.

Not trying to cause a row just passing along some things that I found out FYI

Thanks for that info, 'G"...
I have been telling people for ages that MT's are harder...it isn't for mileage it's more for sturdiness, and the don't stick when wet...
My Elites were like snot on a door knob in the rain...my BF Goodrich T/A Radial is like flypaper in the rain...

ER , ah...for someone not interested in going to the Dark side...you sure seem interested....
Just noting...
18620

[flb_78]

Actually I had BF Goodrick replace all four tires on my van. At first they stated under inflated as the tire separated at the bead, all the way around. A front blew out on me at 80 mph. The very next week another one went flat sitting in the driveway, bead was all cracked. Had the dealer pull the other two same thing on all four and they pro rated them of course but, they never said it was a tire problem, just paid the bill.

Brad

I bet the dealer warrantied it, not BFG. I know we warrantied many tires for "customer satisfaction" and then fought with the tire company to do a partial reimbursement.

[BradT]

I bet the dealer warrantied it, not BFG. I know we warrantied many tires for "customer satisfaction" and then fought with the tire company to do a partial reimbursement.

Maybe but cost me little for new tires, and I was happy.

Brad

[wild hair 39]

i want to here about the facts,about car tires,not opinions,have 7800,mls,on mine,nothing bad to report,still looks brand new,i have my opinion,but that is not facts:stirthepot::stirthepot::confused24::confused 24:
lowell

p.s not suppost to pull a trailer,thank there is a lot more negatives about that,than i've seen about car tires:):backinmyday:

[flb_78]

I understand MuffinMan rode your bike with the CT on. I'd like to hear his opinion on how it rode.

[SaltyDawg]

This thread is like a case of hemorrhoids that just won't go away!!!

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

[oldman]

I don't know if this is the right place for this but did you guys know that Progressive Insurance is one of the biggest supporters of the ACLU? So by having P. I. you are also supporting the ACLU. Just a thought.......................... Thanks Oldman

[V7Goose]

This thread is like a case of hemorrhoids that just won't go away!!!

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
Holy Butt Burn, Batman, you buy those things by the CASE?? No wonder they won't go away!:rotf:

[GigaWhiskey]

Some of the signatures related to this are perty funny too.

[footsie]

Guy's this issue has a lot of opinons not based on facts. I recently put a 165/80/15 ct on my 200 venture, this tire is the same width as the MT and its flat spot is no wider than the flat area worn into the mt. I can not tell the diffierence in handling.
Through the curves the radial flex allows the tread to stay on the pavement.
And yes they flex on cars throught the curves. tread is displaced and side walls rolls on the frount of a car, especially in a reverse incline curve.
Facts are facts, i have seen more and more bikes with car tires on the rear. Riders are reporting better rides and greater mileage. Most Valkyries now have ct on back.
All Boss Hoss had car tires up to a 2 years ago because no company made a mt tire big enough for them and there was no problem.
I have had a car tire on my valkyrie for the past 5000 miles no problems what so ever.

It works

Gregg

Freedom of the road for All :bluesbrother: