Pay me now, or........

[Captainkirk]

....don't pay me at all.
I guess that's the thinking, anyway. I did some work for a local Venture owner (sad to say, a member on this forum, although I don't think he's ever posted here-he registered after I recommended the site to him) last summer. Let me start at the beginning. I am a professional mechanic for a living (not motorcycles) who also happens to be be a bike owner, rider and mechanic. I decided to open a little side biz working on bikes to earn a little cash on the side (mostly to support my bike hobby!) and invested in a Handy Lift and a lot of tools for my home shop. I took on a job on this guy's Venture with a whole laundry list of problems to fix. He dropped off the bike around the first of June last year with a $50.00 deposit for parts & whatnot. He knew up front I charged $40.00/hr, and as I worked off the problems I informed him as to what had been done, and what was left. He kept adding on things to fix as we went along. At the end of the first week I'd already used up the deposit money on fluids, parts, etc, and I called him up and informed him that I'd need more money if there were any more parts needed. I mentioned that the labor bill was starting to "get up there" (it was about $400.00 at that point) but he brushed it off and laughed...."I'm not worried about it" were his exact words.... Now I can see why. I carried on with the work, paring it down to a wiring nightmare issue somebody else had Frankensteined together, and an intermittant CLASS system problem that went from not working at all, to working most of the time. In the end, the bill was around $800.00. I had kept in touch via emails after the bill hit the $500.00 mark with no negative responses. About the third week of June he called saying he needed the bike for a weekend jaunt and wanted to pick it up Friday; he'd bring a check. OK, fine. But I wasn't going to be home; I was going to a car show. He asked if I'd leave the bike outside. No problem, I said. I'll leave the invoice on the instrument panel. Just leave the check in my mailbox.
Well, you guessed it. No check. He'd respond to my emails alright, offering excuses and apologies, but nothing else. My last contact with him was a week before Christmas, hinting I could really use the money for the Holidays. More excuses, more apologies. But no money.
The bill was almost $900.00 by hours worked. I'd knocked off over $200.00 due to the fact there was some head-scratching involved and that the CLASS system was still intermittant. The bill reflected this credit.
Now, part of this is, naturally, my fault. I never should have released the bike without payment, "friend" or not. But I had more work coming in, no room to store the bike, and ........he was a "friend".
Maybe he felt like he didn't need to pay me, as I was not a "professional" motorcycle mechanic?
Maybe he had good intentions.....but we all know what the road to hell is paved with.....
Maybe he thought that, as an acquaintance, I should sacrifice my family time for his hobby?
Maybe he had no intention of paying the bill in the first place (as my wife believes) and played me for a sucker?
I run a clean business. I email my customers with progress updates several times a week complete with photos and keep in phone contact. My invoices are detailed and professional. I guess the reason for this post is (1) to vent, and (2) to advise you guys out there to keep in touch with your mechanic, don't give carte blanche unless you intent to pay for it, and in the end, if you owe it, be a man, suck it up and pay it. I would've happily taken partial payments or made arrangements or even adjusted the bill if there was any dissention about any particular items. His silence on the matter indicates there was not. But to blow me off completely shows me there was really never any intention to pay up to begin with. (3) Your mechanic doesn't work on other people's bikes as a hobby or excuse to get away from his family. He's trading time he could be relaxing, spending time with family, or even working overtime at his "real" job. He's trading that, in the hopes you will play square with him and compensate him for the time he invested in YOUR hobby.
Yeah, I know I could drag the guy into small claims, or begin and continue harrassing him with emails, letters or phone calls, or make threats. But that's just not my way of doing business. He has, however, lost a mechanic in the future, unless he squared up with interest and late fees, and paid for future work UP FRONT.
So, guys, remember this when your favorite wrench asks for a deposit, or payment in full on delivery. He's not being a jerk. He's protecting his interests.
Sad to say, out of all my customers, the Venture rider is the only one who stiffed me.

I would appreciate any and all comments and opinions on this thread.

[dray]

just me but id tell who it is so they cant do it to some one else

[Saddletramp]

Kind of sounds like he had you dialed in all the way. Sorry that he got you the way he did, but it's time to expose the jerk for what he is before he hammers one of your freinds. First time shame on him, second time, shame on you. Sorry about that, but the con games go on and on and on....... you get my drift?

[RoadKill]

just me but id tell who it is so they cant do it to some one else

I agree. Rat him out here. I live in IL and I don't want to run across this guy and not be able to give him an earful :rasberry:

[Marcarl]

I see nothing wrong with your side of the story, but you wrote it, I didn't really hear you speak and that does make somewhat of a difference. In either case, I would like to hear his side before I'd make up my mind on this, if he has a side. It's important to be fair.

[Dano]

I too do a lot of side work (electrical), and I've only had 1 customer stiff me. Same deal, had to move a tan salon in a weekend, but my bill was 3750, which she knew up front. Got all but 850 of it. It's been 4 months since she gave me anything, middle of winter, know she's making money. Going to small claims next. DOn't work for free except for my wife!!!! That's my bike money!!!!!

Dan

[kozman01]

I really don't know what his "side" of the story could be. Fact is, this "customer" did not pay his bill that was due for work performed, period. To OP, I know you don't want to go the Small Claims route, but I tell everyone who has "small" issues like this that small claims is a blessing. 30 bucks and you can get a judgement against the guy that will follow him everywhere. If you let this fool go, who truly is the fool. USe what legal remedies you have. Unfortunately, you can't go old school on him and just take the bike from him, so USE the courts for a reason that they are there. Too many people abuse the court system, be one of those people that use it for its intended purpose, to right a wrong. 30 bucks and a paragraph explaining what happened, too simple NOT to do. Just my two cents, I HATE liars, cheats and thieves.

[BMW]

I see nothing wrong with your side of the story, but you wrote it, I didn't really hear you speak and that does make somewhat of a difference. In either case, I would like to hear his side before I'd make up my mind on this, if he has a side. It's important to be fair.

Well here's his chance to tell his side of the story or PAY UP! Otherwise we put him on the S--- List.:buttkick:

[Condor]

I'd think along the lines of a mechanics lean on the bike, or small claims court. That's going to be your only recourse....unless you have a cousin Guido... You say the guy is a member of this board on your recommendation, and has never posted, so I don't think it's going to be of much benefit posting his name, but he has the option of responding if he feels like sharing his side of the story.... and he feels like coming out of the closet. It's unfortunate that this happened, but trust is earned not a right on this board or any other. Just because someone joins this board, doesn't make him or her automatically trustworthy. Just like in life, trust comes from familiarity.....

[Pilot]

Sorry to hear that you got stiffed.

Now to the small claims court thing. I had an electronics/satellite store back in NY years back. It also was a side job but I was doing well with it and had employees. Long story the short way, I had a customer (a lawyer) who stiffed me for about 6 grand worth of satellite and electronics equipment for his new house. I of course took him to small claims court after 4 months of sending him registered letters. Well we get to court and the first thing the judge asked me is if I payed taxes and had a permit to operate a business in the state. Of course I did having employees who I paid taxes on and I had all the paper work which was required by the state to do business.

My point here is that if you can't prove you are operating a legal business you MIGHT have a problem in small claims court so if you go that way don't tell the jugde you have a side business, tell the judge you were just doing a friend a favor and you want your money, of course unless you have all the permits required that is.

Hope you get your money from your so called friend, he doesn't sound like a friend to me.

[Eck]

It's a shame to get stiffed like you did.

It appears that the only smart buisness folks out there in this cruel world are the street smart hookers..

They get thier money up front ..before any services are rendered..:whistling:

[gibvel]

It's a shame to get stiffed like you did.

It appears that the only smart buisness folks out there in this cruel world are the street smart hookers..

They get thier money up front ..before any services are rendered..:whistling:

And you know this...how?? :confused24: :rotf:

[Eck]

And you know this...how?? :confused24: :rotf:


I knew someone would ask this as soon as I hit the submit button...

However, to answer you r question, I watch COPS every night...:thumbsup2:

[Cerviperus]

I knew someone would ask this as soon as I hit the submit button...

However, to answer you r question, I watch COPS every night...:thumbsup2:I have a friend or two who, sadly, could probably vouch for the fact as well. :rotf:

[cliffno350]

I have simalar story but on a pickup, wound up going to small claims court I "won" however the guys truck was in impound because he reported it stolen as soon as I told him it was done, so I took him to court. The Judge awarded me 1400.00 (parts and labor and my lawyer fees) and gave him the truck. I now have a judgement against him and have never recieved a dime nor has my lawyer, he now lives in texas and any futher legal action would be way expensive. I really dont know what else I could have done except asked the judge to not give him the truck till I had the cash in my hand.
:mo money:

[cecdoo]

I run a small bus. sounds like you did everything rite, the guy is an a*** hole, everybody has run into one, dont beat yourself up over it. The one and only time I ever got stiffed in 25 years was by a good friend of my wife, Hopefully you will be lucky and it wont happen again. Craig

[WHOOMP]

:confused24: when i were younger,about10 - 15 years ago , i used to do bodywork and painting as a hobby.. only people to ever stiff me was a preacher... and a car lot owner ( who claimed to be religious) ... now that was a real burn.. trust no one?? no that is not really fair.. there are lots of honest good people out there..

[hipshot]

a small claims court "judgment" and $3.00 cash, will get you a cup of coffee, at almost any coffee shop in the U.S.A..
in other words, a judgment, is worthless!

jmho.
just jt

[juggler]

:confused24: when i were younger,about10 - 15 years ago , i used to do bodywork and painting as a hobby.. only people to ever stiff me was a preacher... and a car lot owner ( who claimed to be religious) ... now that was a real burn.. trust no one?? no that is not really fair.. there are lots of honest good people out there..

I the world of computer security I always say "In God we trust" everyone else is suspect.

[Captainkirk]

Thanks to all those who offered their advice and comments.
I'm aware of the small claims option. I'm choosing not to exercise it at this point in time for two reasons;
1) Red Tape. I am not licensed as a small business, and as was previously mentioned, judges are not too sympathetic in he said/she said cases such as these. Also, I work out of my own garage, in a residentially zoned district. You don't run into the arena waving a red flag at the bull (judge). This could cause way more trouble than 900 smackers is worth. I know the guy has enough money to have given me at least something since last June; he's choosing to ignore the situation and hoping it (and myself) will go away. As I mentioned, I'll not work on his machine again, unless he comes clean with me, pays up his account, and pre-pays all future deals. Given what I've seen in the past, I doubt this will ever come to pass. Chalk up $900.00 as tuition to the School of Harde Knox.
2) I still have a trump card. I have, in my possession, his other motorcycle, an early Venture Royale he bought to restore but after checking into it I told him it would cost more to rebuild than it was worth. Though I don't have the title, I can ebay the parts off this machine (at my expense, naturally) and try to recoup some of the loss. This much I intend to do.

As for ratting the guy out, I know I should. But I don't know his personal or financial situation (although he appears to be much better off than I am.....I'm the one working late nights in the garage for extra cash) but we all know people are not always as they appear to be. For the protection of others in the Chicago area who work on Ventures and might get a phone call seeking services, however, I'll offer up this; PM me, tell me the person in question's name, and I'll tell you yes or no. That way I can't be accused of slandering or personal attacks. You can do as you choose at that point.
I just don't want anyone else to get burned. Once is enough.
(Psssst...wanna buy some Venture parts?):whistling:

[kozman01]

Now is the time to move on the lien against the motorcycle your currently in possession of. In Ohio, say a wrecker operator tows your car for you and you fail to pay him, in 30 days, he can apply for title to it and do whatever he wants with it.

[spear]

Now is the time to move on the lien against the motorcycle your currently in possession of. In Ohio, say a wrecker operator tows your car for you and you fail to pay him, in 30 days, he can apply for title to it and do whatever he wants with it.
:sign yeah that:

[Marcarl]

Now is the time to move on the lien against the motorcycle your currently in possession of. In Ohio, say a wrecker operator tows your car for you and you fail to pay him, in 30 days, he can apply for title to it and do whatever he wants with it.You'll probably have to have a licnece to do that as well.

[FROG MAN]

Few people left in the world that has a conscience. I pay all my bills on time and even paid some I didn't owe or was in question. Good credibility and a good name is the pride of a family.Learned some hard lessons to. I wish I had all the money people owe me.

[Squidley]

Kirk,

I appreciate you not devulging the members name here on the site. That could get ugly real fast. As has been mentioned there are 2 sides to every story. This is in no way saying that what you have told us should not be viewed as the whole truth. This members lack of communication is very damning to him personally. I agree with everyone here about pushing it a far as you want. Your owed the money and this fella should step up and be a man and pay the bill.

Fortunately this doesn't happen here on the site often. I can only think of a couple of times that something like this has occured here. It's a sad day when you can't trust a fellow biker, but this is the real world and sometimes they will creep in. If I or anyone of the Moderators can be of assistance, please let us know. I do agree that we dont need a member that will take advantage of another here on this site.

Let us know how it goes for you and if we can help you along with this :happy34:

[nelsonrl]

Sounds like you have a good case for theft of services charges to me. The licensing thing could be an issue, but an email threat that you WILL be filing charges for theft could help. Give a specific deadline.

[fast black]

I wish you were closer to me 'cause I would sure use your service, and I would pay before bike left your shop. That being said, when I lived in Iowa I took a scum bag to court and was awarded all that I asked for , but never saw a dime.
That is the last time I got ripped off.
regards,
fast black

[KingSizer]

I'd think twice about selling parts off his other bike. At least until you have a title for it. The last thing you need or want is this guy coming at you saying there was no financial agreement on the work done to the first bike, and now he is trying to get the second bike back in his possession, only to find out you have stripped it down and sold parts from it.
You know what the truth is in all this but believe me, some people will say anything (true or not), even when under oath. My point is, you have no idea what this guy might say, and you don't want to put yourself in a situation where you have actually done something wrong.
Just be careful about selling parts off that other bike.

By the way, have you ever mentioned small claims to him or offered some sort of payment arrangement, or even offered a reduced payoff? Even half of something is better than all of nothing. Maybe he will give title to the bike in your possession in exchange for payment for the work you did, then you could go ahead and sell it off and recoup some of what is owed to you.

[cmiles3]

You have another option. File a mechanic's lien in the state the vehicle's titled; with the judgement against him it should be pretty simple. I'm sure there's a fee involved, but he can't transfer the title without removing the lien. Won't stop him from salvaging (maybe in an honest junk yard) but if it's worth anything, he'll pay.

I have simalar story but on a pickup, wound up going to small claims court I "won" however the guys truck was in impound because he reported it stolen as soon as I told him it was done, so I took him to court. The Judge awarded me 1400.00 (parts and labor and my lawyer fees) and gave him the truck. I now have a judgement against him and have never recieved a dime nor has my lawyer, he now lives in texas and any futher legal action would be way expensive. I really dont know what else I could have done except asked the judge to not give him the truck till I had the cash in my hand.
:mo money:

[dynodon]

Capt, Good on you for not immediately posting this person's name and address. That is a class act on your part. yes there are two sides, but this sounds pretty cut and dried.

Just for your safety, do you have an attorney that will give you some advice for a few minutes and not much charge? Just to get your exact legal rights concerning small claims, or any other court option and what you can do with the other bike. $50 spent finding out can be worth a lot in just knowing the answer, good or bad.

I have friends locally that will help with mechanical work, and I can do some myself, but I try not to infringe on that friendship if you know what I mean. I am lucky to have a local Yamaha shop (RTR Cycles in Washington IL) that has treated me right, and has a good mechanic. They aren't cheap, but so far they have worked on my bike twice, and my wife's twice, and they have been fair and good. I mention their name because those that treat us right should get kudo's and referrals.

I suspect you will get some more business out of this, so make lemonade from the lemons, and get your money up front and don't give back the bike without full payment! (or some legal arrangement that can stick).

Best of luck, and again, you did the right thing, and can be proud.

[Redneck]

High speed lead poisoning. :confused24:
Go discuss it with him at 3 a.m I have done that with good results. I never let any body get away with not paying it will lead others to do the same. I would hound him till he pays or gets a restraining order against you.

[MikeM8560]

In 20 year running my buisness ive only been stiffed twice for about $300 total. Bad check on the ballance of a job.

[hig4s]

I'm sorry to hear you got stiffed, but what were you thinking? Even not knowing he would be remiss, what if it had been stolen from your driveway,, you would have legally owed him the whole value of the bike!!!

[Captainkirk]

You know what the truth is in all this but believe me, some people will say anything (true or not), even when under oath. My point is, you have no idea what this guy might say, and you don't want to put yourself in a situation where you have actually done something wrong.
Just be careful about selling parts off that other bike.

Good point. Hadn't even thought of that angle.

By the way, have you ever mentioned small claims to him or offered some sort of payment arrangement, or even offered a reduced payoff? Even half of something is better than all of nothing.

Yes, I knocked off $200.00 off the initial bill, offered for him to pay me a couple hundred and make payments when he could, and finally, told him give me $500.00 and we'd call it even. He responded by offering me "equipment" which he sells, of which I had no use for, and told him that the whole reason I worked the side biz was for extra money. I haven't heard from him since.

Few people left in the world that has a conscience. I pay all my bills on time and even paid some I didn't owe or was in question. Good credibility and a good name is the pride of a family.Learned some hard lessons to. I wish I had all the money people owe me.

I wish everyone lived by your philosophy.

Capt, Good on you for not immediately posting this person's name and address. That is a class act on your part. yes there are two sides, but this sounds pretty cut and dried.


My aim was not to trash this guy over the internet. I don't know his motives for non-payment and it's not my aim to judge the guy....I was only venting and asking opinions of my peers.

I'm sorry to hear you got stiffed, but what were you thinking? Even not knowing he would be remiss, what if it had been stolen from your driveway,, you would have legally owed him the whole value of the bike!!!

Another good point. Thanks for bringing it up.

[StuD]

:canada:
You may want to inform Mr. Rat that the storage fee on his 84VR has reached the $900.00 point & unless he pays up in the next 30 days it will be sold as scrap. Regestered letter will give you a signature that he recieved your notice and the clock is ticking. :canada::canada::canada:

[KitCarson]

Folks I have been self employed for a long time. Yes when you are starting out with a small business something like this hurts you in the financial department and puts a sour taste in your mouth. There are a lot of dis-honest people in the world. A lot of them!!!
One time I had a car for sale....fellow wanted to go for a test drive....he did all the way to Atlanta Georgia, police found the car stripped:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:see you have to laugh about it to keep from crying!!!

All the liens in the world will not help....those so called court judge orders are worthless. Not worth the paper they are written on. To chase these kinds of people.......to take them to court........then chase them some more with warrants to seize real property.....all takes more money and time........an average service call I run to put a washer in a leaking faucet costs a customer $65 dollars. The fee to file in small claims court is $80 dollars. They never show up......so now you are out the extra money and time also.....but you do have that judgement!!! Makes me cry!!

Now I just take this kind of thing in stride.......write if off as a bad debt on taxes. Do not even let it concern me.........Just cut a Landlord off last week, will run no more calls for him......did not want to pay for tenant caused problems such as a stopped up sink......hey it is his property.....his call.....he called me.......I am a small honest hard working person.....one of the very few who is licensed to do work.......hey let him use a jackleg who puts duct-tape on a leaking sewer line.....or pay an big company $300 bucks for a small call......I just walk away from these kinds of people....smile.....work hard.......enjoy life......and try to get done early enough at least one day a week to go for a ride........:bighug:

[IH Truck Guy]

:canada:
You may want to inform Mr. Rat that the storage fee on his 84VR has reached the $900.00 point & unless he pays up in the next 30 days it will be sold as scrap. Regestered letter will give you a signature that he recieved your notice and the clock is ticking. :canada::canada::canada:

This is great advice.Keeps everything legal, and shows that you did everything the right way.Just keep all the paperwork.

[Captainkirk]

Once again, thanks to all of you for your comments and suggestions. I don't want to beat this thing to death, so let's just say at this point I'll proceed with all due caution and try to stay both civil and legal. I'll also give this guy one final chance to make things right. I'd thought about asking for the title to the other VR so I could legally auction off the parts, but I fear that might make him think I've accepted that as a viable (read: acceptable) alternative. Believe me, I'd rather have the cash. Besides, it costs money to list parts on eBay whether they sell or not, and I'm remiss to go even more in the hole on this deal. I may not have a choice, though. If anything of any magnitude happens, I'll be sure to let you all know the outcome.
Those of you who work on OPM's (Other People's Motorcycles) please be careful. Whatever you do, don't release the machine until the check clears or the cash is in your wallet!
So many people find a barn-fresh bike out there that doesn't run, and are sooooo pleased with themselves when they chew the owner down to a steal of a price....and then expect to get it up and running for a song. In this guy's case, the cost of parts & repairs on the first Venture would've exceeded $1500.00. For less than that I hooked him up with a Second Gen. Venture that ran, but needed some work. (And this is my thanks!.....and No, I didn't get a finder's fee) In most cases, the potential buyer is way ahead of the game buying a running bike in good condition and paying the higher price....as in the case of the Second Gen VR. The reason I mention this is because next time someone springs a hare-brained idea like this (I'll get it cheap, you fix it cheap for me!) tell them to go jump. It doesn't usually work that way. And your friend is only your friend as long as you give him something for nothing, or cheap.

Sign found on Dan's Motorcycle Course site, truer words never spoken!
(especially the small printing on the bottom of the sign)

http://www.dansmc.com/paysign.jpg

Anyway, thanks again to all of you......ride safe and keep the rubber side down!:080402gudl_prv:

[brainfart]

difficult situation.. and remember - what goes around comes around.
someday - sometime - that guy will get shafted...

[oldandcrotchety]

"Besides, it costs money to list parts on eBay whether they sell or not, and I'm remiss to go even more in the hole on this deal."


Wouldn't cost anything to list the parts here the classified section........

[Captainkirk]

Wouldn't cost anything to list the parts here the classified section........[/FONT]

I've listed several of the parts prior to this post (and prior to the whole Second Gen. Fiasco) but I'd be willing to try it again. FYI, there is a whole 1st Gen VR for sale here, folks. Make me an offer........

[dray]

a small claims court "judgment" and $3.00 cash, will get you a cup of coffee, at almost any coffee shop in the U.S.A..
in other words, a judgment, is worthless!

jmho.
just jt


I agree but when you get the judgment you can then put a lean on everything they oun and that way he can not even trade in a car or sell his home or anything else you put a lean against for just a few bucks more and you could also add it into his credit report then it will follow him for ever

there are ways to hurt them till they do pay

[Captainkirk]

Emails and phone calls have gone unanswered. Since I had the owner's "permission" (prior to commencing work on his Second Gen VR) to sell off his parts on the First Gen VR (and split the profits) I will now assume it is OK to keep all the profits; at least until the bill is satisfied. I'd like to offer up any parts to you guys first before I hit up eBay. I've had some of them in your classified section before, but not sold anything. Nevertheless; I'd rather see some of you guys get them first. I'll be selling parts as I dismantle the bike. For any specific needs, PM me and I'll try to get back with you as quickly as possible. If possible, snap a pic of the part you need to help me identify it. Thanks for all your good advice previously; you really are a great bunch!
Parts I do NOT have:
Instrument cluster
Carbs
Main wiring harness
Seat
Rear bags
Trunk bag
Radio
Battery
These I know for sure are missing, unless the owner has them.
Please check the Classified section for listings or PM me.

[Condor]

Emails and phone calls have gone unanswered. Since I had the owner's "permission" (prior to commencing work on his Second Gen VR) to sell off his parts on the First Gen VR (and split the profits) I will now assume it is OK to keep all the profits; at least until the bill is satisfied. I'd like to offer up any parts to you guys first before I hit up eBay. I've had some of them in your classified section before, but not sold anything. Nevertheless; I'd rather see some of you guys get them first. I'll be selling parts as I dismantle the bike. For any specific needs, PM me and I'll try to get back with you as quickly as possible. If possible, snap a pic of the part you need to help me identify it. Thanks for all your good advice previously; you really are a great bunch!
Parts I do NOT have:
Instrument cluster
Carbs
Main wiring harness
Seat
Rear bags
Trunk bag
Radio
Battery
These I know for sure are missing, unless the owner has them.
Please check the Classified section for listings or PM me.

What year, color???

[KitCarson]

I do not know about that owners permission stuff.......I am not a lawyer and pretty dumb on some of this stuff......always treated people fairly and honest and look for them to do the same for me.....but have had one time where I did some work for a person.......judge told me Kit.....the minute you left out of their driveway......by law you extended them credit. If you go back and get your stuff.....you are breaking the law.......you are trespassing and will become subject to many charges........

Pain Tain't it!! All I do now is try to not let them sneak up on me.....if they do.....I just let steam out of my ears for about an hour and then smile and take it in stride.......write it off on taxes......about all you can do this day in age.....they have more rights than we do............something wrong with this situation......but I do not know if it is even worth fighting......I want to sometimes......just learned I really have no means to do it.......a judgement order is a joke.....once you get that you have to pay to have that served.......they avoid that too......then it is off to see the Federal Marshall.......pay more money......have them seize real property.....cart it back to the county holding area to be sold at auction........yes a real pain........so I just try not to get snuck up on. Kit

[tmodel]

Well Captain, there is some good advise here... and some that may be a bit more on the emotional/get even side of the equation.

Here is my marginal advise.

1. Spend 15 minutes with a lawyer to get good legal advice. That will cost little to nothing but might save you tons of heartache.

2. Don't part out the second bike until it is legally yours or you might experience the worst possible slap in the face: Not getting paid for your work on the 1st bike and then having to pay him for the second one ... in court!!!

PROTECT YOUR GOOD NAME. He will continue to ruin his.

[WIKD]

I have a cousin Guido, literally, and luckily hes only a phone call away. What goes around comes around. I am a firm believer in the fact that you can only build up so much bad karma before it comes back to bite you in the ass.

[Captainkirk]

What year, color???

1984, brown metallic