Sticking Clutch

[tiny84]

Ok so here is my issue (the only thing keeping my venture royale from going down the road) My bike runs mint now bled all the hydralic systems fresh oil change and rearend oil but the clutch wont letgo. I start the bike on the center stand to test everything out, press on the front brake and clutch and kick it into gear, bike starts clunking around a bit and spinning the rear wheel even with the clutch all the way in. if i press on the rear brake it will stall out the engine. any ideas of what needs to be done? I've orderd new clutch springs as I dont realy want to mess with replaceing the whole clutch right now. I'm still new at working on bikes.


I do know if I replace one spring at a time I wont end up dissassembling the clutch and it should be a realativly easy job. and just see if that does the trick.

Could it be from not enough oil? I put 3 quarts in but not 100% that was enough. I'm working blind as I dont have a manual. bike did sit for 6 years could it fix itself if I just kept running it (clutch sticking from nonuse for so long?)

[Venturous]

First of all, you need to determine if the clutch lever is working correctly. Does it feel like it has the proper resistance in the proper area? At about 1/4 the way in you should have it feel like it is getting more difficult to pull in, but still be able to pull in smoothly. Also, if the bike has been sitting for a long time, the clutch plates may be stuck together. It may just take putting the bike on the ground and seeing if you can get it to go into first gear with the clutch pulled in. It may scrape a bit, but I don't think it will necessarily hurt anything. Another thing to consider is taking the clutch cover off and taking all six bolts and springs apart and separate the clutch discs by hand. It is easy to do and nothing will fly apart. You can also do this with out loosing any oil if you do it with the bike on the side stand.
As far as the oil level, there is a sight class with an upper and lower mark under the right foot peg. This needs to be checked with the bike on the center stand.
RandyA

[Condor]

All of the above, and.... it could be low fluid or air traped in the master. Do a search for reverse bleeding of the clutch. I had that happen a couple of times, and reverse bleeding was the only way I could get the dang thing to start working.

[Leonard G. Robertson]

Tiny84, I own 3 bikes (1300 Yamaha, 1200 goldwing, 1500 goldwing) & they all three have clutch release problems after they sit over night. I always park them in nuetral if it is overnight. As soon as they start momentarily in nuetral ,then it releases fine for all day. I've known other friends having the same experience with their bikes.

[tiny84]

Ok I'm not sure how to go about "reverse bleeding" could you be a lil more discriptive as to what I would need to do? as far as the clutch lever it does have a bit more pressure at 1/4 way in. but it doesn't feel as stiff as my 86 kawasaki ninja. i'm off tomorrow So i'll be pulling apart that clutch.

is there anything i'm gonna need to know about taking the clutch apart before I end up with a bunch of clutch plates with out being sure how they go back in there? lol

Honestly I'm getting pretty antsy to get some rideing in.

[Squeeze]

Hi,

new Springs won't help if the Clutch is sticking. The Springs are pressing the Plates together and the Force from the Hydraulic is pushing the Plates against the Force of the Springs to uncompress the Plate-Package.

Sticking means, that there is not enough Travel on the Clutchcylinder. Or Air in the Line.

I think bleeding the Clutch propely will help you on that Hassle. While doing that, either the standard Way or Upside down, watch the Line for any Bows that go above the lower Level of the Mastercylinder.

If you are not able to get those Bows temporarily under the Mastecylinder, you gonna spend Hours and Hours of not gaining any Progress. Pls don't ask how do i know ... :( :( :(

If you feel some Resitance on the Lever, you could try to pull the Lever against the Handlebar over the Night, using a Tie Strap or a Cable. This will force the Bubbles in the Line upwards to the Reservoir, where they come out of the Line the next Morning while releasing the Lever. It takes some Hours to work out, so over Night works for me. Proceed this several Nights and you will feel it coming better and better. But this won't help if there are Bows above the Level of the Mastercylinder. I actually proceed this every Time after Work on the Brakes or Clutch, so i don't need to bleed the Line, just because i opened a Banjo-Bolt for Seconds.

[Condor]

Ok I'm not sure how to go about "reverse bleeding" could you be a lil more discriptive as to what I would need to do? .

Basically it's forcing the DOT 3 or 4 up the clutch lines from the bleeder valve, thru the slave, and into the reserve. Since air will rise in the lines, it's almost impossible to force the air down thru the lines, thru the slave, and out the bleeder valve. There are several different ways to accomplish reverse bleeding, but they all do the same thing. i.e. force the fluid from the bleeder valve up into the reserve. With a standard OEM valve you can just loosen it, attach a clear plastic tube for a visual, and use what ever method you can conger up as an injection tool... Everyone seems to have their own method for this. I personally use a rubber ear bulb, but since I have a speed bleeder installed I have to remove it. With the top of the master reserve removed start forcing fluid into the lines, being carefull not to force so much in that it overflows the reserve bowl. You can actually hear the air bubble out. It won't take long, but once no more air can be heard, lock down the bleeder valve, make sure the reserve level is OK, and you're good to go.

[Yammer Dan]

Watch the notches in the clutch plates when you pull them out and put them back in same position. put them in some fresh oil and wipe them down with it. Make sure you put them back in same position nothing is going to fly apart as Randy said. Don't overtighten springs when putting them back the torque is only about 10 lbs can't find it right now but just good and snug. Bleed it and you will have a clutch and go try it out!!!

[rhncue]

If the bike has sat for awhile the plates may have sort of glued themselves to each other. When starting my bike after it has sat for a period, I put the bike in third gear, before starting the engine and then with the clutch lever pulled in, I rock the bike back and forth until the plates break loose from each other. I then put the bike back in neutral and start and engage first gear as usual.

Dick

[Cutty]

If you're going to work on it Monday, today pull the clutch in half dozen times and keep the clutch handle tied to the handle bar ( rag, tape, wrap tie ) on your last pull. Put bike on center stand in an open area, in neutral start engine let motor run until fans come on for 2 to 3 mins. Leave clutch handle in that position over night and see the results in the morning.

[tiny84]

Ok I think I scewed something up! I took the clutch plates out today seperated all the plates and passed each one through some fresh oil but now that I have reassembled the clutch... in exactly the same order and position I might add, but now the clutch lever takes everything I can to squeez the clutch lever in.

Any ideas on what I did wrong? do I need to bleed the clutch again?

[Condor]

Ok I think I scewed something up! I took the clutch plates out today seperated all the plates and passed each one through some fresh oil but now that I have reassembled the clutch... in exactly the same order and position I might add, but now the clutch lever takes everything I can to squeez the clutch lever in.

Any ideas on what I did wrong? do I need to bleed the clutch again?

Take the presure plate off again and then try to gently squeeze the lever. If moves easily then the plates are binding. Possibily a tab is hanging in the channel. If it's still hard to move your slave could be bad due to rust and sitting. There may be other things, but that seems the most logical right now.

[Venturous]

A couple of years ago, the clutch lever on my 83 got more and more difficult to pull in. It ended up being junk in the metal part of the line below the engine, going to the slave cylinder. Once I cleaned it out and bled the system again, it worked fine. When you are bleeding yours, does it have much restriction when you open the the bleed valve?
RandyA

[tiny84]

it gets alot softer but yes it does still have some resistance. how do i go about cleaning that portion out? i'm guessing i need to take the plate out of the left hand side of the engine. wich will mean fresh oil again i'm guessing

[Yammer Dan]

Did all the notches come out and go back in the same place. What I mean is they are all lined up? Plate with springs go back same place? There are marks on it to line it up.

[tiny84]

Yeah i was very carefull to make note of notches and where they lined up. it did seem to hel with the rear wheel spinning issue but now the clutch lever just wont budge so i'm thinking randya is correct that i have crud in the hydralic lines somewhere but all the fluid seems clean now

[Yammer Dan]

Handle hard as a rock when you try to pull it? Something not lined up.
Probally plate with springs.




Can pull handle ?
Try bleeding. Could be plugged line.

[tiny84]

ok so i took the clutch plates off again and the clutch lever is still very hard and the push rod bairly moves so it seems to me that the line has plenty of pressure in the line in fact it seems now that the clutch is stuck out so that it wont spin the rear wheel. i'm thinking i'm going to have to tear down the hydralic side of the clutch and clean it out completly and bleed the lines again. should be loads of fun. well it will give me something to do tomorrow after work.

[Venturous]

tiny, you did not answer my last question. What happens when you open the bleeder valve on the slave cylinder? Is it still hard to pull the clutch lever in?
RandyA

[Yammer Dan]

Do as Randy said. If you open bleeder on slave cylinder and it is still hard to pull you have a restriction somewhere. Might bleed it out but most likely taking things apart and cleaning them. Did system have fluid when you got it?

[Squeeze]

Hi,

first check out what RandyA said. Open the Bleeder-Valve and look what happens. If there is a Lot of Pressure in the Line, it will shoot out while opening the Bleeder, be aware of that and open it carefully with a clear Hose fairly attached to the Bleeder.

Once you opened it, try to pull the Lever and see what happens. If the Levers moves easy, keep the Bleeder open and mount the Pressure Plate. Before mounting the Pressure-Plate, try to get the mushroom shaped Pinion pushed over to the left Side.

You just might have the right Boring on the bottom of the Mastercylinder clogged.

Or ... did you change the Clutch-Lever while working on the Clutch ? There are some Aftermarket-Parts, which do not fit perfectly. If the Lever is out of correct Dimensions, it could happen that the Pinion in the MC isn't released all the Way back. This pumps up the Pressure in the Line and the lower Cylinder. Friend of mine suffered this for 3 Weeks until we found this Catch22.

[tiny84]

sorry no its not hard to pull the lever in if the bleeder valve is open, and yes the system did have fluid in it when i got it all be it merky but it did have fluid

[Leeway]

Flush with new fluid till I is perfectly clear, but with opening the bleeder freeing up the lever, you should check for an alignment problem in the clutch. wt

[Squeeze]

sorry no its not hard to pull the lever in if the bleeder valve is open, and yes the system did have fluid in it when i got it all be it merky but it did have fluid

So, this reduces the Error to either the Push Rod or the Aligment of the Plates.

Please, close the Bleeder-Valve and take the Pressure Plate out and push the Pinion#19 over to the left Side of the Bike. Then, put a little Pressure with your Hand on the Pinion and pull the Clutch Lever on the Handlebar slowly. The Pinion should now move towards the right Side of the Bike. You can feel that in your Fingers. When you release the Clutch Lever, the Pinion should be moved back in most left Position with little Pressure of your Hand. The complete Travel of the Pinion should be around 2 Millimeters, a bit less than one tenth on an Inch. Don't pull the Lever completly to Handlebar, this does no good. 80 Percent of the Travel should be enough for that Test.

If the Pinion is working as expected, the Fault should be in the Assembly of the Clutch. Check everything before reassembling and make sure, that the Pressure Plate's Bearing fits in the Pinion#19 you tested before. Best thing is to asseble the Pressure-Plate is to use only 3 Bolts in a cross Pattern. Make 2 Turns on each Bolt, then go the next Bolt, 2 Turns, next Bolt and so until you got all three almost tightened. Then bring in the other 3 Bolts, also in a cross Pattern. If you have all setted, tighten all 6 Bolts in cross Pattern.

After you reassembled the Clutch, you should be able to see the Pressure Plate moving when the Clutch Lever is pulled, and it should travel back on it's own, when depressing the Lever.

[tiny84]

ok pinion is not working correctly. no plates on the bike right now and the pinion will bairly "wiggle" when i press on the lever as hard as i can i might add. how do i free up the pinion to move

[Condor]

ok pinion is not working correctly. no plates on the bike right now and the pinion will bairly "wiggle" when i press on the lever as hard as i can i might add. how do i free up the pinion to move

Have you ever had the 'rods'... I like to call 'm rods... out? If you can get the lever to move using the bleeder valve and the rods aren't moving then I highly suspect the slave is bad. Or.... The reason I asked the first question is that there are two push rods and ball bearing between them that the slave, on the other side of the engine, pushes on. They have a rounded end and a flat end. The flat end goes against the ball. If you put them in with the round side against the ball they will bind.

[tiny84]

I've not removed the "rods". so is the slave the portion that the bleeder valve is hooked onto? and would i need to replace it or could i simply clean it out? on the schematic the slave is the parts labled "27" right?

[Squeeze]

I've not removed the "rods". so is the slave the portion that the bleeder valve is hooked onto? and would i need to replace it or could i simply clean it out? on the schematic the slave is the parts labled "27" right?

#27 is the Slave-Cylinder, right

I just did a bit Research about the Background of the Bike ...

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showpost.php?p=93283&postcount=1

So, i think either the Mastercylinder ist stuck on it's Piston, or there was someone working on Clutch Years before and couldn't manage to get the so called Rod's (btw an outtake from the Yammi-Parts-List) and the Ball together. Maybe the Ball is missing.

If the Piston is stuck, i'm afraid to say, you have to dismount the Slave, order a Repair-Kit and get it fixed. There are some Guys who did this with Success. I personally haven't done that in the Past. If i remember right, at least GeorgeS has done that some Weeks ago.

[Venturous]

Removing the slave cylinder is not difficult, even though it can be a little bit tricky to get out of the hole and back in again, but it will go. Just try not to break off the bolts holding it on and there is just two, I believe.
I think you are getting closer to getting it identified.
RandyA

[rhncue]

#27 is the Slave-Cylinder, right

I just did a bit Research about the Background of the Bike ...

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showpost.php?p=93283&postcount=1

So, i think either the Mastercylinder ist stuck on it's Piston, or there was someone working on Clutch Years before and couldn't manage to get the so called Rod's ( btw an outtake from the Yammi-Parts-List) and the Ball together. Maybe the Ball is missing.

If the Piston is stuck, i'm afraid to say, you have to dismount the Slave, order a Repair-Kit and get it fixed. There are some Guys who did this with Success. I personally haven't done that in the Past. If i remember right, at least GeorgeS has done that some Weeks ago.

I have rebuilt my slave in the past and it was a pain in the arse. Rebuilding the unit wasn't tough but getting it out was. A lot of folks on this forum have said that they just replaced theirs with a new slave as they aren't that expensive but if that is true it would be a first for Yamaha. The hard part is that the unit is held in place by two 5.5mm socket head screws and are lock-tighted in place. When you go to remove these two bolts be sure to clean the sockets well with carb cleaner, use a good, hard Allen wrench, and I put some Glover valve grinding compound onto the end of the wrench so as to stop it from slipping and rounding the Allen wrench, or worse, the socket head screw. Once the screws are out you have to keep playing with the slave to get it out as it only comes out one way and actually doesn't seem like it will. Rebuilding was simple if you have a brake cylinder hone to take the burnish off of the walls. Mine was filled up with dirt and sediment so that there was little movement of the piston. Made a huge difference in the clutch disengagement process once completed.

Dick

[Squeeze]

second Thought:

as the Seals in Slave are nearly Waste anyways, you could give 'brute Force' a Try. Use a 2x4 Piece of Wood as a Damper and give the Rod a slight!!!! Hit with the Hammer.

The Rod will go back in normal Place and probably not stuck anymore, even when you pull the Lever several Times to test the Moving. It's a Risk, no Question, but Life's a Risk also...

[tiny84]

Can I remove the slave without takeing the trans cover off? or do i take that off to start then remove the slave? just looking for a few tips before i start messing with that side. could it simply be an easy fix such as cleaning it all out and putting it back together? or am I more likely going to be rebuilding the slave?

[Condor]

I've not removed the "rods". so is the slave the portion that the bleeder valve is hooked onto? and would i need to replace it or could i simply clean it out? on the schematic the slave is the parts labled "27" right?

If it's just dirty it might be cleanable, but if it's ugly and rusted a new one runs around $70 bucks, and for the difference between new and a rebuild kit, new made more sense. When I replaced mine I bought the new one from www.buckeyeperformance.com (http://www.buckeyeperformance.com).

Also don't discount that a previous owner may have asssembled the clutch wrong. ...PO's are notorious for doing that... It's what happened to me. I fianlly went back to ground zero and put it together by the book and It's worked great ever since. And ya gotta take the middle gear cover off.......

[Squeeze]

Can I remove the slave without takeing the trans cover off? or do i take that off to start then remove the slave? just looking for a few tips before i start messing with that side. could it simply be an easy fix such as cleaning it all out and putting it back together? or am I more likely going to be rebuilding the slave?

Once you have the Slave undone, it just makes no Sense to just clean it and put it back in Place.

A Repair-Kit or a new Unit would solve this for the next Years. If you just clean it, maybe you will find yourselves wrenching at it the next 4 Weeks, because it's leaking.

The left Side Cover has to be undone to get the Slave out.

[tiny84]

Well one thing is for sure i did mess up a lil when I put the clutch back together the last time. I put the bolts back on like a car directly across from eachother and tighten them down not in a triangular patern. one question about the hit it and pray option... what are possible ramifications of this option? can I do more damage than is already done?

[tiny84]

Also what is in a rebuild kit?

[Squeeze]

If you don't utilize the 10 Pounder giving it several hard Hits, there is nothing what could be hurt seriously. It's just to loosen the stuck Piston out of this Place.

As it had stuck the first Time, every time you pulled the Lever, the Piston was pressed more and more in this stucking Place. If you force it back to normal Place, there's a Chance of get it working normal again. Nobody knows how and why it did stuck, maybe it was just from some Misaligment in the Clutch-Assembly or whatever else.

Just hit it slightly, until the Rod moves a bit, then two or three even slighter Hits and it will be gone back to where it should be. If your not 100 Percent sure about the Line, open the Bleeder a bit, it will work as a second Damper and stop the Piston from crashing hard against the back of the Cylinder. First Damper would be the Fluid in Line.

As for the Bolt-Pattern ... that's not that bad. Bad would have been if you tightened the Bolts one by one clockwise or counterclockwise.

and ...
check the Rods and the Ball for existing in Place, if you're not sure that nobody tinkered around with the Parts

[Yammer Dan]

When you take that side cover off there is a washer on the bottom center Allen screw. It needs to go back in same place or you will have leak. I think there is a good chance you could break everything down and carefully clean it and get clutch to work. It may end up leaking and you would have to go back in but 2nd time is lot easier.

[tiny84]

WooHoo!!! it appears that the hit it with a hammer and hope for the best worked!

[Venturous]

WooHoo!!! it appears that the hit it with a hammer and hope for the best worked!


Everyone needs a good clutch hammer!!!
RandyA

[wild hair 39]

like a dumn a--lost the clutch in WIChITA,didn't even look at the flould,road it home,clean replaced with dot 4,off to atlanta,lost it again,this time i check the floud,real bad looking,mast have mosture in it,this time new dot 4,so far so good :080402gudl_prv:

[Squeeze]

WooHoo!!! it appears that the hit it with a hammer and hope for the best worked!
Congrats so far, hopefully this worked out for you fine, the next Days will tell you the Truth. If it's getting to leak, it will start the next Days. I'll keep my Fingers crossed.

How much Travel did you manage to get, when pressing the Lever ?

Everyone needs a good clutch hammer!!!
RandyA


Yeah, i second that ... :D :D :D

[tiny84]

now I can squeeze it almost all the way to the grip. still feels nothing like the clutch on my 86 ninja 1000r so i'm not sure if i've got it right. wont know till i get a chance to take her down the street.

heres a good question how can one tell if the clutch plates are worn down to where they need replaceing?

[Squeeze]

Hi,

the Steel-Plates are checked for blue discoloring and for warping on a even Surface. The Plates are checked for warping and Thickness by measuring. Check the Manual for the correct Sizes. Even Surface could be a Pane of Glass.

I think, you need to go for a Ride and get all Things moved. After that, Decisions can be made.

[Yammer Dan]

Squeeze is right needs to be rode if it is working and used. It may fix itself now by being used.

[tiny84]

I'm thinking i might just head down to the dealer and order the slave and a set of gaskets for both sides of the trany. i'm seening a small puddle of oil under the bike now. not sure if its hypralic fluid or oil but figure i just do it right for a change. I do need to get it going down the street to be sure its running ok anyway.

[Yammer Dan]

I would wait to see where its comingv from but you can't hurt anything. Good Luck and Enjoy!!! Let us know.

[timshosvt]

My piston was sticky in the slave cylinder and would disengage but was sluggish. I flushed and bled without success. I took it apart and found rusty fluid inside that didn't come out with a vigorous bleeding and flushing session. I used a gray scotchbrite pad (000 steel wool, 800 grit wet sandpaper would work) and cleaned up the rusty piston and cleaned up the bore and unsuccessfully tried to reuse the seal. It leaked. I bought a new one for 11 something US dollars at www.zanottimotor.com (http://www.zanottimotor.com)